#ocaml on 2021-01-15 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2020-09-11 13:16 companion_cube changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.11 release notes: https://caml.inria.fr/pub/distrib/ocaml-4.11/notes/Changes | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml

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14:10 <olle> Can OCaml C API deal with a function where one argument is traced by GC but not all?

14:15 <d_bot> <ggole> Yes, you pass the name(s) of the argument(s) to whichever variant of `CAMLparam` is suitable

14:22 <olle> ggole, OK, but do the arguments have to come in a certain order?

14:22 <olle> Like GC traced args first? Or last?

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15:03 <olle> Oh

15:04 <olle> Sorry

15:04 <olle> for some reason I thought camlparam was without args

15:04 <olle> thanks

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16:14 <d_bot> <ggole> Sure, I'd bookmark the relevant section of the manual because it has detailed info about writing C code that manipulates OCaml values

16:14 <companion_cube> ocaml doesn't like raw C pointers though

16:14 <companion_cube> it tolerates them currently but will reject them with multicore

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16:27 <olle> companion_cube: :O

16:27 <olle> companion_cube: but only when you mix "value" with C structs?

16:27 <olle> bah, it's just a toy project anyway, I can pin an earlier version if needed.

16:29 <companion_cube> ocaml's gc assumes everything it touches is a OCaml value

16:29 <companion_cube> (or a proxy to some out-of-ocaml-heap thing)

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16:34 <sadiq> companion_cube, olle: so. It's a bit more complicated.

16:34 <sadiq> you will no longer be able to have _naked_ pointers

16:34 <sadiq> which means just a pointer to some random data outside the OCaml heap

16:35 <sadiq> but pointers outside of the OCaml heap that have a correct header will be fine

16:35 <sadiq> (correct being that it's black)

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16:35 <sadiq> this applies to trunk with no-naked-pointers on as well

16:36 <companion_cube> sure, the header is the proxy, right?

16:36 <companion_cube> a custom block that does what it wants

16:37 <sadiq> no, you don't even need the custom block.

16:37 <companion_cube> ah, you mean the value outside of the heap needs to have an OCaml header?

16:37 <sadiq> correct, yes.

16:37 <companion_cube> and the GC won't follow it but mark it?

16:38 <sadiq> the header must be black, which means the GC won't trace it

16:38 <sadiq> (and because it's outside of the heap, it will never be swept and made white)

16:38 <olle> sadiq: oh, so it will be impossible to combine stack allocations with GC blocks in the same program?

16:38 <companion_cube> sadiq: thanks for the clarification, but it barely changes anything to the current discussion indeed :)

16:39 <companion_cube> olle: just write C functions adn call them from OCaml

16:39 <sadiq> yes. The area is a little under documented.

16:39 <companion_cube> the C functions can use local stack variables, problem solved

16:39 <olle> +1

16:39 <sadiq> olle, pretty much, unless you make your stack variables one word longer and make sure they all have a black header.

16:39 <sadiq> but that might blow any benefits from keeping them on the stack.

16:39 <olle> sadiq: headers is what I want to avoid :d

16:40 <sadiq> olle, are you trying to do this against stock ocaml or are you hacking on the compiler/runtime itself?

16:40 <olle> sadiq: I want to use the OCaml GC in a hobby language

16:40 <olle> that compiles to C

16:40 <sadiq> if the latter you could modify the marking procedure to ignore stuff on the stack

16:41 <sadiq> but that's basically going to require maintaining a fork

16:41 <sadiq> I guess if you just stick to a version that has naked pointers you've already got that with the page table.

16:42 <olle> hm

16:46 <olle> sadiq: how will this affect how you write extensions in C to OCaml?

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16:58 * olle going home \o

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17:21 <d_bot> <EduardoRFS> @companion_cube you mentioned that flambda and dose didn't work for you right?

17:21 <d_bot> <EduardoRFS> do you have a log or something? Pietro the guy from dose was able to build it successfully on 4.11+flambda

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17:31 <companion_cube> with how much RAM?

17:31 <companion_cube> I mean it wouldn't work from 4.3 to 4.8 at least, I stopped trying after that

17:31 <companion_cube> nowadays all my switches are non flambda

17:39 <b4er> To what degree is there dependent typing in OCaml?

17:39 <companion_cube> barely any

17:40 <b4er> Oh, how does printf work?

17:40 <octachron> GADTs

17:40 <b4er> Is it just some hard-coded custom inference stuff or more?

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17:41 <companion_cube> the parser produces a GADT magically

17:41 <b4er> But the compiler will need to inspect the format string, or not?

17:41 <companion_cube> the rest is normal OCaml

17:42 <b4er> I see, is this just for printf or can I access this magic as a user?

17:43 <octachron> The parser that transform ("%d": _ format) into "Format (Int (Int_d, No_padding, No_precision, End_of_format), "%d")" is compiler only.

17:43 <octachron> But you can reimplement essentially same with a ppx for the string-like syntax + GADTs.

17:46 <b4er> ty!

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23:10 <neiluj> hello! i try to write to a file but somehow the lines are written in the wrong order

23:11 <neiluj> do you have an idea on what could the problem be?

23:11 <neiluj> Printf.fprintf is use to write on the file stream

23:13 <sleepydog> can you share any code?

23:14 <neiluj> sure

23:15 <neiluj> some sample code: https://tpaste.us/49jO

23:16 <olle> sounds like recursion ^^

23:16 <olle> "wrong order!"

23:16 <sleepydog> yea, that's my guess. taking a look now

23:16 <neiluj> so it prints to the file stream oc but some instructions are run before one finishes

23:16 <neiluj> thanks for helping with this stuff ^^

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23:18 <neiluj> at first i used with_file to write the entire file content but it was consuming a lot of memory, so now it writes the page line by line

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23:21 <sleepydog> so what are you seeing that's out of order? Is it the stuff you're printing with Base.List.iter ?

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23:21 <companion_cube> @joris: https://macwright.com/2021/01/15/rust.html :)

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23:23 <neiluj> sleepydog: it's what's printed by output_line: https://tpaste.us/MQaD

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23:27 <sleepydog> hmm, i don't see how that can be

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23:28 <neiluj> no problem, it may be related to the specific file that is printed, cause it happens only on one file

23:28 <neiluj> what is flush btw? not sure what it does

23:31 <neiluj> oh i see the file contains html code that breaks the whole html page

23:31 <neiluj> that's silly :)

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