companion_cube changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.11 release notes: https://caml.inria.fr/pub/distrib/ocaml-4.11/notes/Changes | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<olle> test
<vsiles> succeed
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<olle> +1
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<d_bot> <froyo> is mlkit not safe enough
<d_bot> <froyo> i mean as long as you avoid global region..
<d_bot> <froyo> but a slow & simple gc can go thru global region fine cause it grows slowly
<d_bot> <froyo> or well, should
<olle> froyo, gotta check more! didn't think it was actually implemented, only saw some papers on it
<olle> Although infered regions is not as good as explicit regions, when it comes to predictable performance.
<olle> Buuuut, explicit regions leaves you open for massive memory leaks if you're sloppy.
<olle> I wonder if one language could support both non-escaping stack alloc, regions and ref count in one go without being incredibly messy
<Armael> in mlkit I think you have both automatic region inference and manual region annotations
<olle> Yeah?
<olle> That's cool!
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<olle> No free PDF found for "On the Effects of Integrating Region-based Memory Management and Generational Garbage Collection in ML"
<olle> :|
<olle> Older papers are available tho
<olle> Wonder how that works
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<olle> Aren't they publicly funded? Why the pay wall?
<bacam> olle: I think there's also a retrospective paper which has some of the regions+gc results.
<olle> bacam: Yes, but it's from 2004
<olle> 17 years :(
<olle> Latest paper is from Jan 2020
<qwr> pure region inference has also problem where some regions can collect lot of garbage before being freed, so it is probably necessary to combine it with some form of gc
<qwr> it might performant with combination of some form of deferred refcounting
<Armael> olle: I'd recommend emailing the author
<d_bot> <froyo> olle: Aren't they publicly funded? Why the pay wall?
<d_bot> <froyo>
<d_bot> <froyo> because academic publishers are worse humans than politicians
<Armael> academic publishers are crap but actual researchers are usually very happy to share the pdf
<qwr> but i think it is not much used due the combined complexity of regions + gc
<bacam> I didn't realise any of them were still working on it.
<bacam> olle: Use Google Scholar.
<d_bot> <froyo> bacam: this?
<qwr> olle: btw, have you read this? https://arxiv.org/abs/1908.09681
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<bacam> d_bot: Yes, that's the one I was thinking of.
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<olle> bacam: hm
<olle> Armael: Oh yeah, maybe I'll try that :)
<bacam> Ah, there's a recent JFP paper too which really doesn't appear to be freely available (although JFP should be changing soon, at least for new work). If you want that I suggest contacting one of the authors.
<Armael> olle: you have the pdf link above though
<Armael> it's available on google scholar indeed
<olle> Armael: which one? not the retrospective, that's from 2004
<Armael> but yeah contacting authors is the universal recipe :-)
<Armael> ha
<olle> 11:13 < olle> No free PDF found for "On the Effects of Integrating Region-based Memory Management and Generational Garbage Collection in ML"
<olle> That's the latest ^
<Armael> you can find it on google scholar
<bacam> Or his web pages: https://elsman.com/papers
<d_bot> <Armael> and also there
<olle> Your google fu is stronger than mine :)
<olle> Thanks!
<olle> Or google is shit for showing only pay walls at top ><
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<olle> Hey, you don't need to box anything for regions. That's cool.
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<Vyom> Hello
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<osa1> what's wrong with this type synonym? type y = [< `A of int | `B of int ];;
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<octachron> There is an unbound row type variables hidden in the `<`
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<octachron> `[< `A of int | `B of int ]` is not a single type but a constrained familly of types.
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<d_bot> <joris> ```ocaml
<d_bot> <joris> type 'a y = 'a constraint 'a = [< `A | `B ]
<d_bot> <joris>
<d_bot> <joris> type 'a y = [< `A | `B] as 'a
<d_bot> <joris> ```
<Enjolras> meh that is terribly ugly, sorry, i thought the bot would at least interpret and strip the codeblock
<osa1> octachron: thanks. If I have `type y = [ ... ]` (without > or <), how do I make a term with type y? I tried let x : y = `A int" but no luck
<octachron> That should work?
<osa1> huh, you're right
<osa1> I don't know what I did wrong when I tried this in utop before
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<dieggsy> what exactly does d_bot do
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<octachron> It bridges this channel with the OCaml discord server
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<dieggsy> Ah
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<d_bot> <EduardoRFS> we're humans
<d_bot> <antron> *beep beep boop*
<companion_cube> oh hey o/ @antron
<d_bot> <antron> hey! i just fell into a trap. after failing the turing test by beeping, i searched for r2-d2 sounds and i just found out people train their parrots to mimic t2-d2. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLxKciFXzsA> this is completely off-topic so i won't continue here, but wow 🙂
<d_bot> <Armael> 🤖 🦜
<companion_cube> next library will be named "parrot", noted
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<hackyhacker> Hello, is Menhir the goto parsing library for ocaml?
<hackyhacker> The new syntax is really confusing to me
<octachron> Yes. The new syntax is still kind of experimental? It might make sense to familiarize yourself with the old syntax as a first step?
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<hackyhacker> I've used it for a simple toy project but since I wanted to expand my project with an ast and the calculator-ast demo used the new syntax I thought I should also use it
<hackyhacker> I've used the old syntax that is
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<d_bot> <EduardoRFS> the new syntax for me feels like OCaml, I'm really inmto it
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<hackyhacker> Yeah I read the examples below the new syntax section and I've got it working! :)
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<p4bl0> hello :), I had to upgrade my Debian from stable to testing and the system version of ocaml bumped from 4.05.0 to 4.11.1, and opam is really confused by that
<p4bl0> is there a way to have opam "redectect" the sytem version of ocaml?
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<Armael> p4bl0: I assuem you were using the opam "system" switch, in which case I think you basically have to wipe it out and recreate it
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<p4bl0> oh, okay :)
<p4bl0> thanks
<Armael> it's recommended to instead use an opam switch in which you build the compiler
<p4bl0> okay
<p4bl0> i will do that :)
<d_bot> <joris> The new syntax is basically the same but more dry no? I don't see it as a big change
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<ankit> hello!
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