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<yunfan>
cess11_: any benchmarks ?
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<aw->
Regenaxer: The trick with Twitter is to _not_ use it, but rather put it on the same level as email. Open once or twice a day for at most 30 seconds, close to maintain your sanity.
<mircea_popescu>
or just have the machines use it and deal with aggregated results.
<aw->
yes that would be nice, where can I find that?
<mircea_popescu>
generally you write these yourself neh.
<aw->
hmmm.. not sure the time saved would be offset by the time taken to write such a tool.. i'm sure i've seen an XKCD about that
<yunfan>
i remember there was a period i am really interested of using it
<yunfan>
but at that time, they said dont use it in production
<aw->
yep
<aw->
seems it's production-ready now..
<yunfan>
and the origin author dead after
<aw->
hmmm..
<aw->
you're thinking of Zeromq
<yunfan>
isnt the origin author the same of nn?
<aw->
no
<aw->
one of the zeromq authors created Nanomsg
<aw->
diff person
<yunfan>
ok
<yunfan>
do they have support for p2p network?
<aw->
?
<aw->
Nanomsg is just a library
<aw->
you use it to create whatever you want
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<yunfan>
but as i knew, it support tcp/udp/ipc
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<Regenaxer>
My problem with Twitter is that ads are not well distinguishable from normal messages if you just glance over them quickly
<Regenaxer>
It was no problem when I used twidge all the years, but it disappeared at least from the Debian repros
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<aw->
Regenaxer: you can try the tweetdeck web-based client
<aw->
it's created by twitter, no ads
<aw->
err.. not created by.. i think TweetDeck was acquired by Twitter a while back
<Regenaxer>
Not yet another client ;)
<Regenaxer>
twidge was perfect, it ran here inside this irc client
<Regenaxer>
twidge did not show any ads at all, I don't know why
<Regenaxer>
Mastodon is nice
<beneroth>
ads are a disease. well the cross-subsidisation aspect of it is nice (people with money who buy stuff finance google search engine for people who don't/can't buy stuff). but this funding model has huge overhead, and ads are more and more abused for spreading malware, or are full psychological attacks.
<beneroth>
Good morning all :)
<Regenaxer>
Hi beneroth!
<aw->
nmo
<aw->
it's web based client
<aw->
hi bene
<aw->
Regenaxer: web-based, open in a browser tab, close when you don't need it
<aw->
i don't like having twitter open all day while i'm using the computer
<Regenaxer>
yeah
<Regenaxer>
I don't either, open the app from time to time
<Regenaxer>
But same with the browser, usually I open a non-w3m browser only when debugging a web-app
<Regenaxer>
And even those I usually first test in w3m ;)
<Regenaxer>
Termux all day
<Regenaxer>
3 termux-sessions, and 3 tmux sessions in each of them on different machines
<aw->
hmmm
<aw->
is Mastodon a substitute for Status.net?
<Regenaxer>
Never heared of status.net. We must ask clacke[m] such things ;)
<aw->
StatusNet
<aw->
according to wikipedia it seems they use the same federated network.. or something
<Regenaxer>
I expect to be offline soon today. T-Com changes my line
<beneroth>
oha
<Regenaxer>
ok
<Regenaxer>
I still have ISDN here
<beneroth>
you're a T-Com slave? mein beileid
<aw->
wow ISDN
<Regenaxer>
hehe, yes
<aw->
that's +20 year old tech
<Regenaxer>
more
<beneroth>
oh in switzerland many small companies miss their ISDN, because it worked well with the telephones. now they get VOIP with buggy software and bad support.
<Regenaxer>
I use it since 1986
<Regenaxer>
right
<aw->
beneroth: buggy VOIP, it's redundant
<beneroth>
xD
<Regenaxer>
Problem is that I also need to change my cablings, so I may be offline a while
<aw->
Regenaxer: what are you getting to replace it?
<beneroth>
no data rate on a mobile?
<Regenaxer>
yes, but not on this tablet, would need to set up tethering
<Regenaxer>
and this server here in my basement would not work anyway
<Regenaxer>
No problem probably, I have to clean up my cable mess anyway
<Regenaxer>
get rid of splitter and ntba
<Regenaxer>
it was rewired several times over the years
<Regenaxer>
from analog to isdn to dsl
<aw->
oh the Mastodon UI looks almost identical to the TweetDeck UI. Hilarious
<Regenaxer>
depends which client, no? I use Tusky
<aw->
Regenaxer: you don't get fiber where you live?
<Regenaxer>
Not in the near future. It is about 100 meters to the fiber from my house
<yunfan>
beneroth: but ad model support the company, while you user wont pay for your tweets
<aw->
wow
<yunfan>
if you are using webbrownser , you could easilly use an extension to avoid such ads
<beneroth>
aw-, Germany and fiber is a silly story. their monopolist, T-Com, is kinda blocking it while taking the governments money dedicated to fiber building
<aw->
oh
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<Regenaxer>
T
<beneroth>
broadband availability heavily varies in Germany depending on location.
<aw->
you can use mobile.twitter.com with JS disabled, it's pretty fast, no ads
<Regenaxer>
Yes, used mobile twitter, works even in w3m. Right, I should switch back
<beneroth>
I don't use twitter (I guess I should start eventually for marketing reasons). but I find the ad-business model in general (not just twitter) is a slippery slope
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<beneroth>
Regenaxer, until enough people use that trick and they change it ;)
<Regenaxer>
Stupid twitter sends me a warning mail each time I switch client though
<aw->
haha
<Regenaxer>
beneroth, which trick?
<beneroth>
using mobile.twitter.com with JS disabled
<Regenaxer>
Ads appear in w3m too, but not so annoying
<Regenaxer>
especially as w3m on termux supports no images
<Regenaxer>
well, JS is disabled in my Chrome too
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<beneroth>
no attack surface in the picture rendering parser :P
<Regenaxer>
enabled only for certain sites
<Regenaxer>
true
<Regenaxer>
But w3m with images is really cool
<beneroth>
T
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<yunfan>
Regenaxer: never tried that in w3m , thx
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<Regenaxer>
hi yunfan! :)
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<yunfan>
Regenaxer: just tried that, works perfectly
<yunfan>
guess netsurf could use twitter as the testing target
<Regenaxer>
With images?
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<clacke[m]>
aw-: In the beginning Evan created laconi.ca the software, and identi.ca was the flagship instance. It used OpenMicroBlogging, which was a protocol for exchanging microblog updates over XMPP. Wanting to be a part of the emerging social web and to support the protocols the built it, Evan created the OStatus brew of protocols, made up of the new PubSubHubbub, ActivityStreams, WebFinger, Salmon and a few other things.
<Regenaxer>
wuff
<clacke[m]>
As Evan tried to make laconi.ca a sustainable business, he changed the name of the software and his company (originally Contrôlez-Vous, Inc. (Control Yourself, Inc.)) to StatusNet and StatusNet Inc, and started offering hosted instances on *.status.net as well as offering services to enterprises wanting to run it internally.
<clacke[m]>
At the same time, Yammer and others managed to capture the enterprise market, whereas Google killed Buzz and undermined the interoperability aspect of OStatus. Diaspora also arrived, an went with their own not-quite-OStatus protocol (but you can still passively follow Diaspora accounts from GNU Social).
<clacke[m]>
As StatusNet revenue was drying up, Evan closed down the business and bought the properties for himself, and continued to run identi.ca. This was draining his funds, so he wanted to find some way to lower cost. Over a few months, he created pump.io, which used a simple protocol instead of the hodge-podge, and which was implemented in node and on Mongo (with other options available) instead of in PHP on MySQL.
<clacke[m]>
StatusNet was reverse-merged into the existing GNU Social project, and patches from two forks were brought in and governance handed over to the developers of those forks. This was around 2012.
<clacke[m]>
The biggest GS instances at this time were probably quitter.se and gnusocial.de.
<aw->
clacke[m]: I know Evan, I actually interviewed at identi.ca a long time ago when it was just starting ;)
<clacke[m]>
cool!
<clacke[m]>
Things chugged along for few years, and then basically RW's history description becomes relevant. A number of exoduses from Twitter created first shitposter.club and sealion.club and others, and quitter.es, which is not really related to quitter.se apart from using the same software.
<Regenaxer>
aw-, did you work as a journalist?
<aw->
Regenaxer: no, back then I was doing a lot of PHP programming
<aw->
clacke[m]: i haven't followed the identi.ca/statusnet project in a long time, thanks for the update
<clacke[m]>
And then in 2016, Gargron came along and created Mastodon, which implemented the same protocol, but with its own additions over time, and through UI improvements and more active advocacy on Hacker News, Hacker Noon and other places managed to grow the network from maybe 100k active users to over a million in less than a year.
<Regenaxer>
The german c't magazine also publishes articles about Mastodon from time to time. That's how I hit upon it
<clacke[m]>
Yeah, lots of American mainstream outlets covered it for a month or two about a year ago too.
<Regenaxer>
nice
<clacke[m]>
Glad to hear not everyone moved on. It' still as relevant as ever.
<clacke[m]>
i am going to set up my own Pleroma instance any month now.
<clacke[m]>
That's another new OStatus implementation, less than two years old, made in Elixir on PostgreSQL. It uses less resources than Mastodon and I prefer its frontend.
<clacke[m]>
It even bundles the Mastodon frontend a well, for people who prefer it, as the backends are compatible.
<aw->
clacke[m]: are you aware of any other/new projects Evan is working on now?
<clacke[m]>
While all this was happening, Evan created a group to develop a web standard based on the pump.io protocol, but with several upgrades. Chris Lemmer Webber has been doing the editing there -- he was dragged in as he wanted to make MediaGoblin federate comments and posts. So that's been going on for like 3 years and now it's a recommended standard by the W3C. Mastodon uses ActivityPub in preference of OStatus starting with
<clacke[m]>
Mastodon 1.6, and Pleroma will release its implementation this week.
<clacke[m]>
Evan has been pretty busy with fuzzy.ai and breather.com
<aw->
i see
<clacke[m]>
As he likes experimenting with new concepts, just like he was early out with WikiTravel, he has recently launched evancoin.com as a way to sell his time and attention.
<aw->
oh yeah i remember wikitravel
<aw->
we talked a lot about his previous projects and stuff, definitely an entrepreneurial type of person
<clacke[m]>
now more or less killed by WikiMedia's WikiVoyage.
<clacke[m]>
When Evan sold WT, the people who bought it tried very hard to monetize, and they drove away their contributors, who forked and joined WikiMedia instead.
<clacke[m]>
Yeah. He hasn't given many interviews, but when he does he's always interesting to listen to, full of ideas and with his finger on the pulse of the web community.
<aw->
clacke[m]: how/why are you aware of all these details?
<clacke[m]>
I'm just interested in social networks, and have been on the Fediverse since it started. I've been on identi.ca, parlementum.net, unlimited.status.net, quitter.se, social.heldscal.la, microca.st (pump.io), datamost.com ... and hanging there with other people who are interested in these things.
<clacke[m]>
I tried Friendica for a while too, but haven't looked at Hubzilla (previously Red Matrix).
<aw->
oh i see, that makes sense
<clacke[m]>
Nor have I been on Diaspora.
<clacke[m]>
The first social network thing I was on was StudiVZ!
<clacke[m]>
And then Facebook opened to the public not long after that, and then Twitter, but when identi.ca opened I was really happy to find a free software service that could be an alternative to the others.
<clacke[m]>
Or I guess really the first social network was SixDegrees, but I can't say I ever used it. I think I registered on Orkut once too.
<clacke[m]>
And i maintain a CV on LinkedIn too. I guess some of this explains why I don't do much coding outside work. :-D
<aw->
ahahaha yeah
<aw->
Facebook was wonderful when it was still a closed network
<aw->
it was just me and my uni friends
<aw->
no parents, no family members, no groups, no ads
<aw->
i closed my FB account ~5 years ago, closed LinkedIn ~4 years ago,.. probably will close Twitter eventually.. i'm quite anti-social-network, very opposite from you clacke[m] ;)
<Regenaxer>
me too
<Regenaxer>
only irc and twitter till now
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<clacke[m]>
I'm a sucker for network effects. Haven't finished reading the internet yet, and all of these except LinkedIn are full of people I talk with every day.
<clacke[m]>
I used to not go to Twitter very much, but the growth of the Fediverse has led to me discovering interesting people there, who happen to also write stuff on Twitter.
<clacke[m]>
I'm interested to try out Steem too, so if I would be able to earn any money writing longer-form stuff.
<clacke[m]>
see*
<beneroth>
great read, thanks clacke[m], aw- :D
* beneroth
saves this as social-media-history.txt
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<clacke[m]>
:-)
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<cess11_>
yunfan: Yeah it was a lot more work with Redis.
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<yunfan>
cess11_: do you have any benchmark ?
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<cess11_>
yunfan: That was it.
<cess11_>
I had to handle a few million datapoints, there was more work with Redis. If you're mainly interested in measuring technical performance in some detail I'm fairly sure you'd want to isolate that type of transaction or other kind of action.
<beneroth>
Eric Schmidt: "There’s a general concern in the tech community of somehow the military-industrial complex using their stuff to kill people incorrectly"
<clacke[m]>
150 GWh, that's a lot of bitcoin if you can get it
<clacke[m]>
Maybe that's where the 200 stolen Icelandic bitcoin miner rigs went
<beneroth>
ah right, good theory! :D
<clacke[m]>
> Eleven people have been arrested in Iceland as a result of what local media are calling the “Big Bitcoin Heist”—600 mining computers were recently stolen from Icelandic data centers in four separate burglaries between December 2017 and January 2018.
<clacke[m]>
600 even
<clacke[m]>
let's see, 150 GWh, that's about 150 MSEK, that's about 1500 BTC. That's about a day of mining.
<Regenaxer>
I'd like to have a pure text client for Mastodon, ideally like twidge was
<clacke[m]>
maybe identcurse could be modified
<clacke[m]>
masto has its own API, but lain/lambadalambda says it's not all that different from the twitter API, which is what GS implements