<cess11_>
tankf33der: If Signify is for fingerprinting or encryption, I think.
<cess11_>
Whether.
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<cilz>
hello guys
<Regenaxer>
Hi cilz!
<cilz>
hello Regenaxer
<cess11_>
Good morning.
<Regenaxer>
Hi cess11_!
<cilz>
hi cess11_
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<Nistur>
joebo: I have a win10 machine at work I can test with, but I probably shouldn't do too much non-work related stuff on it
<Nistur>
also g'mornin' all
<Regenaxer>
If Apple really switches to Arm64 for Macs in the long team, we will have a chance again to get pil running on them
<Nistur>
you think they'll make it easier to dev on just because they're using ARM? :P
<Nistur>
4 tshirts and 1 sticker have sold :P I haven't put in an order yet
<Regenaxer>
Arm64 is position independent, so no problem
<mtsd>
Good morning everyone
<Regenaxer>
Hi mtsd
<Nistur>
hullo
<Regenaxer>
The problem is with the stupid x84 architecture, which is not "clean" for pic
<Regenaxer>
at least I don't want to rewrite it ;)
<Regenaxer>
Arm is OK
<Regenaxer>
On Android all is position independent code too
<Regenaxer>
Clang is still a problem, we did not succeed to build pil64 on iOS due to the assembler differences
<Regenaxer>
But on MacOS we can probably use gas, right?
<Regenaxer>
Anyway, Arm will not be on Macs soon
<Nistur>
yeah, I recall seeing the timeline being something like 4-5 years wasn't it?
<Regenaxer>
no idea
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<Regenaxer>
Nistur: Is the T-Shirt available only in a single size?
<Regenaxer>
How to know whether it fits? ;)
<Regenaxer>
My wife wants one, I want one, and one we wanted to present to a japanese friend with a size somewhere in between
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<Nistur>
Regenaxer: when you select to buy it, it gives you a choice of which size to add to cart
<Regenaxer>
Sorry, my fault!
<joebo>
morning all - I was going to recommend to arie to join the irc channel for help
<Regenaxer>
yes, just found it :)
<Regenaxer>
Hi joebo!
<Regenaxer>
good idea, yes
<Regenaxer>
I think one problem was the wrong path, but then it was a format error
<Regenaxer>
executable file format
<Regenaxer>
So it must be a build/link problem
<Nistur>
yup, and they pretty much told me I wasn't being helpful :P
<Regenaxer>
Why not?
<Regenaxer>
I just explained the two 'pil's which are indeed confusing
<Regenaxer>
I don't know about the build process under Win
<Nistur>
They were running pil from bin
<joebo>
I will reply... I don't know if he knows he needs to build on linux
<joebo>
I just tried with a clean install and it works
<Nistur>
so it wasn't the one in the project root they were running
<Nistur>
but they said that they will wait for the picolisp experts to show up, which, to me, says that I wasn't being helpful
<Regenaxer>
haha :)
<Regenaxer>
Anyway, we should recommend to start only $ bin/picolisp for a first tests
<Regenaxer>
or (cd bin; ./picolisp) or whatever
<Regenaxer>
Not mess with a global installation at this point
<Nistur>
I do that anyway :P
<Nistur>
but yes
<Regenaxer>
yeah, as we discussed :) I think one of the strong points of PicoLisp is that it *can* run completely locally and privately
<Regenaxer>
(and as I said, this is almost the sole cse case for me)
<Regenaxer>
Ordered, though almost 18 Euro for handling is really tough
<Regenaxer>
And then we will have trouble with import tax too?
<Regenaxer>
Is teespring in the UK or in US?
<Regenaxer>
Not clear from the site
<Nistur>
US, I couldn't find any EU site that would do this :(
<Nistur>
I am also disappointed with the shipping
<Regenaxer>
ok
<Nistur>
I had a look at a few sites and the ones which seemed most like what we'd need were: spreadshirt, which only allowed a single image to be added to the tshirt (no back or sleave imagery); shirtinator (which was EU) would only allow you to buy your own designs and not share them; teespring, which is what I ended up going for, which does everything (and actually is cheaper per item than the others) but has
<Nistur>
high shipping costs
<Regenaxer>
I see :) Well, no worry, lets see when it arrives
<Nistur>
I think shirtinator worked out at about 22EUR/shirt before shipping
<Nistur>
the most cost effective way, of course, is to print a batch yourself and keep them in stock... but that's a lot of hassle, so it has to be short run sites like this
<Nistur>
Regenaxer: a friend just pointed out a typo on that pro/con page... ummmm... http://picolisp.com/tractatus/!tractatus?*Menu=+1880358913&*Tab=+1&*ID= "dynamicalelly" if you want to fix it :)
<Regenaxer>
Cool, thanks!
<Regenaxer>
I fixed it
<Regenaxer>
This page was meant to be maintained and elaborated over time
<Regenaxer>
But I forgot it meanwhile
<Nistur>
:)
<joebo>
nice! my midipix patches also help out the WSL port
<joebo>
I can run app/main.l
<Nistur>
woop
<joebo>
if I skip fcntl in (asm cc)
<joebo>
and compile in the ext: functions
<Nistur>
joebo: I haven't checked your midipix stuff yet... do I need to request access for midipix first or has this got stuff already in your repo?
<joebo>
it's just a hack at the moment... the right way would be to make it compatible with the win-x86-x64.l arch concept
<joebo>
Nistur: my recommendation is to wait if you can... I hope to get back to midipix later in the week
<Nistur>
joebo: that's fine. I have many other things I need to get working :P
<joebo>
ok. also, I'd say windows is not suitable for production but may be OK for light dev
<Nistur>
my "production" is releasing a dodgy script to hack together some renders of Lego models into an instruction booklet PDF, so it's about as far from critical as it is possible to be :P
<Nistur>
I was just thinking that I could be of help :P
<joebo>
:)
<joebo>
sounds useful!
<joebo>
ok - time to start my work day
<joebo>
ttyl
<Nistur>
have fun :P
<Nistur>
Regenaxer: did you say that you'd ordered 3 tshirts? They've not come up on the analytics for the campaign... did you get a confirmation for it?
<Regenaxer>
No, I ordered just two. My wife did not want one
<Regenaxer>
and, yes, got a confirmation mail
<Nistur>
aha, there is is then ok :)
<Nistur>
I was just concerned because I didn't see any orders with 3 tshirts :P
<Regenaxer>
perfect
<Regenaxer>
The shipping factor would be less when ordering more ;)
<Nistur>
yup
<Regenaxer>
No problem
<Nistur>
7 tshirts and 1 sticker sold :P and I've still got to put my order in :P
<Regenaxer>
cool
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<joebo>
hi arie!
<joebo>
thanks for posting the WSL steps
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<joebo>
hi arie!
<joebo>
thanks for posting the WSL steps
<arievw>
Hi Joe, my pleasure!
<Regenaxer>
Hi arievw!
<arievw>
Quite a struggle for me. I used Linux a bit about 20 years ago and dabbled in it later on, but never so "deep".
<Nistur>
hello arievw
<arievw>
Hi Regenaxer!
<arievw>
Hi Nisturl!
<arievw>
Seems quite a few people *are* intereted in PIL then ...
<arievw>
... interested ...
<Regenaxer>
Strange the thing with version 18.2.17
<Regenaxer>
ah, no, ok
<Regenaxer>
same here. There was an update
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<Nistur>
Regenaxer: noooooooooooot that I'm trying to make things difficult, I was just curious... has anyone tried pil on iOS at all, or recently? I know that you cannot do what you have with PilBox, at least not release it officially, but coul one write an iOS app in pil, bundle it and (in theory) release it?
<Regenaxer>
I tried together with an iOS developer a few months ago
<Regenaxer>
We did not succeed to assemble the sources
<Regenaxer>
The Clang asm format was too different
<Nistur>
yeah, I figured as much :(
<Regenaxer>
:(
<Regenaxer>
The output of mkAsm.l / src64/lib/asm.l is very much targeting gnu asm
<Regenaxer>
But this could be fixed I suppose
<Nistur>
how much actual asm is in pil64?
<Regenaxer>
What do you mean with "actual"?
<Nistur>
I'm just trying to figure out what the issue is, if there's a tonne of code which is written in gnu asm that clang as doesn't like, then that's a lot of work, and you end up with two branches to maintain for pil64 which is bad, but if it's relatively little then that's less of an issue
<Regenaxer>
There is nothing written in gnu asm directly, but src64/lib/asm.l generates the structures (directives, labels etc.) the way gnu expects it
<Nistur>
ahh ok
<Regenaxer>
and partially also in src64/arch/*, though here are mainly the instructins
<Regenaxer>
in this case we need src64/arch/arm64.l
<Regenaxer>
it has the instructions, register names etc.
<Nistur>
lib/asm.l is... 788 lines long... so worse case you have asm.l and then 2x 788 lines in asm-gnu.l and asm-clang.l
<Nistur>
and use asm.l to detect whether you're using clang or gnu as
<Nistur>
might be some code you could even share between the two
<Nistur>
788 lines isn't a huge amount to have two versions of, and it'd get two extra platforms
<Nistur>
... I'm not trying to give you extra work here, I'm not expecting you to do anything :D
<Nistur>
I'm just pondering
<Regenaxer>
right, just need to find out where we need another asm syntax
<Nistur>
not for this project, but I have more projects, more ideas... and some of them might appreciate iOS support... I'm wondering if I could be of assistance here if it came to it :P
<Regenaxer>
sure, lets try as far as possible
<Regenaxer>
MacOS / arm64 migth be far away, but iOS is here
<Regenaxer>
Ideal would be if we could simply use gnu assembler for the assemble step
<Nistur>
and macOS/x64 might work with pil64 if you get clang working?
<Regenaxer>
then only the linker would be clang
<Regenaxer>
no, I meant once Mac uses Arm CPUs
<Nistur>
yeah, I understood that should just work then :P I was wondering about now
<Regenaxer>
on Intel I don't want to rewrite the code