08:32 <beneroth> Hi all

08:39 <Regenaxer> hi beneroth!

09:59 <Regenaxer> Insane: https://www.heise.de/developer/meldung/GitHub-sperrt-Nutzer-aufgrund-von-US-Handelssanktionen-aus-4480961.html

10:33 <jan6> if it was english it'd be even better ;P

10:34 <jan6> " GitHub blocks users due to US trade sanctions

10:34 <jan6> For users from the Crimea, Cuba, North Korea and Syria access to the software development platform GitHub is severely limited. "

10:36 <beneroth> too bad we stubborn old cranks have to be right

10:37 <beneroth> reminds me of the "picolisp should be developed on GitHub" discussion ;-)

10:37 <beneroth> sad trend, this politicization of everything :(

10:39 <CORDIC> Well, GitHub has been Microsofted. What could surprise us?

10:39 <beneroth> yeah, well sometimes I would prefer to be wrong...

10:40 <CORDIC> :)

10:40 <jan6> the problem is not microsoft, but being located in the U.S.

10:40 <jan6> M$ is not good, but hasn't done anything bad to it either, afaik

10:41 <jan6> gitlab > github, then, I suppose ;P

10:42 <CORDIC> https://man.sr.ht/sr.ht is an interesting option to me.

10:42 <beneroth> english article: https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/29/github-ban-sanctioned-countries/

10:44 <beneroth> jan6, well the companies could resist, US Gov throwing some MS/GitHub CEO into jail would hopefully spark some resistance

10:44 <jan6> uh, if you resist the law, then yes, you will be thrown into jail

10:45 <jan6> which is exactly why they DO NOT resist

10:45 <beneroth> lavabit closed down instead of loosing their principles

10:45 <beneroth> aye

10:45 <jan6> selfhost your git on your own page as a backup ;P

10:46 <beneroth> I do. Regenaxer does :)

10:47 <beneroth> you could use picolisps snapshot script, Regenaxer uses that instead of git or hg :)

10:48 <beneroth> btw. HN is not interested in the GitHub action

10:48 <beneroth> but tankf33der, you might want to add something here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20546906

10:48 <beneroth> "Ask HN: Best Lisp for software development?"

10:49 <beneroth> the chickeners already got there :)

10:51 <beneroth> jan6, what holds you back? :)

10:51 <jan6> everything yet nothing

10:51 <beneroth> aka no will/priority on it :P

10:52 <beneroth> in what context do you do programming? what are regular problems you have with it?

10:53 <jan6> nothing and nothing, which is the problem ;P

10:55 <beneroth> sounds alright :)

10:56 <beneroth> you could do some shell scripting in picolisp when you feel in the mood for it. check out (opt) in reference.

11:48 <tankf33der> beneroth: added comment

11:48 <tankf33der> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20553486

11:48 <tankf33der> :)

11:53 <Regenaxer> Hi tankf33der!

11:53 <tankf33der> hi all

11:53 <Regenaxer> Does anyone know what Fortify does?

11:54 <Regenaxer> I find info about some static code analysis

11:54 <Regenaxer> but in Termux I get a runtime error

11:54 <Regenaxer> in (ctty)

11:54 <tankf33der> all this unknown to me.

11:54 <Regenaxer> ok

11:55 <Regenaxer> I get:

11:55 <Regenaxer> : (ctty "/dev/tty")

11:55 <Regenaxer> FORTIFY: freopen: null FILE*

11:55 <Regenaxer> Aborted

11:55 <Regenaxer> On other systems it works

11:56 <Regenaxer> (and I believe it also *used* to work on Termux)

11:56 <jan6> maybe /dev/tty simply doesn't exist?

11:56 <Regenaxer> No, for example (open "/dev/tty") works

11:56 <beneroth> tankf33der, thanks :)

11:57 <Regenaxer> 'ctty' reopens sdtin, -out and -err

11:57 <Regenaxer> so they exist

11:57 <Regenaxer> the file pointers I mean

11:57 <beneroth> tankf33der, good link. That (old but gold) text should be the on picolisp.com start page I think...

11:57 <Regenaxer> OK, seems as issue for #termux

11:58 <tankf33der> beneroth: why old? this is from current tgz file

11:58 <tankf33der> another exists?

11:58 <beneroth> no, its alright

11:58 <beneroth> it was created long ago, but is still current and fine

11:59 <beneroth> we should have put in on the picolisp.com startpage from the start, instead the current cheeky blabla

12:00 <Regenaxer> BTW, I rewrote Vip over the weekend to work without Ncurses. Everything is fine except the above error

12:00 <beneroth> oh nice!

12:00 <Regenaxer> I use direct escape sequences

12:01 <beneroth> ncurses is useful but a bit unhandy beast

12:01 <beneroth> ah nice

12:01 <Regenaxer> tankf33der, is it portable if it expects VT-100?

12:01 <Regenaxer> beneroth, yeah

12:01 <tankf33der> Regenaxer: unknown, lets say yes

12:01 <Regenaxer> curses gives so much trouble

12:01 <jan6> why use it then?

12:01 <Regenaxer> tankf33der, ok :)

12:02 <Regenaxer> I tested on Termux, Xterm and Linux console

12:02 <Regenaxer> jan6, right

12:02 <Regenaxer> Now Vip is even smaller and simpler

12:02 <Regenaxer> I haven't released yet

12:02 <jan6> vt100 is supported basically everywhere, even win10, iirc

12:03 <Regenaxer> first must fix on Termux

12:03 <Regenaxer> Good to know

13:11 <beneroth> bbl

15:12 <Regenaxer> Fixed the 'ctty' issue. Was in fact a problem in the Android version of PicoLisp

16:05 <freemint> Regenaxer i was always suspicous about your claim that PicoLisp is more dynamic than other compiled languages. Turns out building functions at run time in C is impossible but trivial in PicoLisp. In Julia building functions at run-time is possible but just barely so and with caveats. The thing is: if you compile a block of code before executing it and during the execution a new function is defined the compiled functions are not

16:05 <freemint> aware of this function :) In PicoLisp you can certain stuff more easily.

16:05 <Regenaxer> Right

16:28 <freemint> Julia's constraint is a "world age". Each function created increments it. When stuff get's compiled, the compiled code runs with the knowledge of the world age it was compiled at so newly defined functions (defined with eval so compiler can't know beforehand) are not found (there is a work around the language called invokelatest) but that is an complication you do not have to have in PicoLisp.

16:29 <freemint> This is a reasonable but defintly more complicated language. Not suited to understand things from first principles like PicoLisp

16:30 <Regenaxer> yep, but you also have more responsibility in PicoLisp

16:30 <Regenaxer> You *can*, but you also *should* understand what you are doing

16:37 <CORDIC> AFAIK it is called ""Late Binding"".

16:38 <Regenaxer> This is also one aspect

17:14 <Regenaxer> Released curses-less Vip

17:21 <Regenaxer> Will update the docs later