ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: https://irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp/ | Check also http://www.picolisp.com for more information
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<beneroth> Hi all
<Regenaxer> hi beneroth!
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<jan6> if it was english it'd be even better ;P
<jan6> " GitHub blocks users due to US trade sanctions
<jan6> For users from the Crimea, Cuba, North Korea and Syria access to the software development platform GitHub is severely limited. "
<beneroth> too bad we stubborn old cranks have to be right
<beneroth> reminds me of the "picolisp should be developed on GitHub" discussion ;-)
<beneroth> sad trend, this politicization of everything :(
<CORDIC> Well, GitHub has been Microsofted. What could surprise us?
<beneroth> yeah, well sometimes I would prefer to be wrong...
<CORDIC> :)
<jan6> the problem is not microsoft, but being located in the U.S.
<jan6> M$ is not good, but hasn't done anything bad to it either, afaik
<jan6> gitlab > github, then, I suppose ;P
<CORDIC> https://man.sr.ht/sr.ht is an interesting option to me.
<beneroth> jan6, well the companies could resist, US Gov throwing some MS/GitHub CEO into jail would hopefully spark some resistance
<jan6> uh, if you resist the law, then yes, you will be thrown into jail
<jan6> which is exactly why they DO NOT resist
<beneroth> lavabit closed down instead of loosing their principles
<beneroth> aye
<jan6> selfhost your git on your own page as a backup ;P
<beneroth> I do. Regenaxer does :)
* jan6 just doesn't do versio control in general, which is probably a bad idea ;P
<beneroth> you could use picolisps snapshot script, Regenaxer uses that instead of git or hg :)
<beneroth> btw. HN is not interested in the GitHub action
<beneroth> but tankf33der, you might want to add something here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20546906
<beneroth> "Ask HN: Best Lisp for software development?"
<beneroth> the chickeners already got there :)
* jan6 shamefully admits to not even using lisp ;P
<beneroth> jan6, what holds you back? :)
<jan6> everything yet nothing
<beneroth> aka no will/priority on it :P
<beneroth> in what context do you do programming? what are regular problems you have with it?
<jan6> nothing and nothing, which is the problem ;P
* jan6 is barely young enough to not have work to worry about, yet...I just make shell scripts for the most part, when I feel like it...
<beneroth> sounds alright :)
<beneroth> you could do some shell scripting in picolisp when you feel in the mood for it. check out (opt) in reference.
<tankf33der> beneroth: added comment
<tankf33der> :)
<Regenaxer> Hi tankf33der!
<tankf33der> hi all
<Regenaxer> Does anyone know what Fortify does?
<Regenaxer> I find info about some static code analysis
<Regenaxer> but in Termux I get a runtime error
<Regenaxer> in (ctty)
<tankf33der> all this unknown to me.
<Regenaxer> ok
<Regenaxer> I get:
<Regenaxer> : (ctty "/dev/tty")
<Regenaxer> FORTIFY: freopen: null FILE*
<Regenaxer> Aborted
<Regenaxer> On other systems it works
<Regenaxer> (and I believe it also *used* to work on Termux)
<jan6> maybe /dev/tty simply doesn't exist?
<Regenaxer> No, for example (open "/dev/tty") works
<beneroth> tankf33der, thanks :)
<Regenaxer> 'ctty' reopens sdtin, -out and -err
<Regenaxer> so they exist
<Regenaxer> the file pointers I mean
<beneroth> tankf33der, good link. That (old but gold) text should be the on picolisp.com start page I think...
<Regenaxer> OK, seems as issue for #termux
<tankf33der> beneroth: why old? this is from current tgz file
<tankf33der> another exists?
<beneroth> no, its alright
<beneroth> it was created long ago, but is still current and fine
<beneroth> we should have put in on the picolisp.com startpage from the start, instead the current cheeky blabla
<Regenaxer> BTW, I rewrote Vip over the weekend to work without Ncurses. Everything is fine except the above error
<beneroth> oh nice!
<Regenaxer> I use direct escape sequences
<beneroth> ncurses is useful but a bit unhandy beast
<beneroth> ah nice
<Regenaxer> tankf33der, is it portable if it expects VT-100?
<Regenaxer> beneroth, yeah
<tankf33der> Regenaxer: unknown, lets say yes
<Regenaxer> curses gives so much trouble
<jan6> why use it then?
<Regenaxer> tankf33der, ok :)
<Regenaxer> I tested on Termux, Xterm and Linux console
<Regenaxer> jan6, right
<Regenaxer> Now Vip is even smaller and simpler
<Regenaxer> I haven't released yet
<jan6> vt100 is supported basically everywhere, even win10, iirc
<Regenaxer> first must fix on Termux
<Regenaxer> Good to know
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<beneroth> bbl
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<Regenaxer> Fixed the 'ctty' issue. Was in fact a problem in the Android version of PicoLisp
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<freemint> Regenaxer i was always suspicous about your claim that PicoLisp is more dynamic than other compiled languages. Turns out building functions at run time in C is impossible but trivial in PicoLisp. In Julia building functions at run-time is possible but just barely so and with caveats. The thing is: if you compile a block of code before executing it and during the execution a new function is defined the compiled functions are not
<freemint> aware of this function :) In PicoLisp you can certain stuff more easily.
<Regenaxer> Right
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<freemint> Julia's constraint is a "world age". Each function created increments it. When stuff get's compiled, the compiled code runs with the knowledge of the world age it was compiled at so newly defined functions (defined with eval so compiler can't know beforehand) are not found (there is a work around the language called invokelatest) but that is an complication you do not have to have in PicoLisp.
<freemint> This is a reasonable but defintly more complicated language. Not suited to understand things from first principles like PicoLisp
<Regenaxer> yep, but you also have more responsibility in PicoLisp
<Regenaxer> You *can*, but you also *should* understand what you are doing
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<CORDIC> AFAIK it is called ""Late Binding"".
<Regenaxer> This is also one aspect
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<Regenaxer> Released curses-less Vip
<Regenaxer> Will update the docs later
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