ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: | Check also for more information
orivej has joined #picolisp
hijink has quit [Quit: hijink]
andyjpb has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
freemint has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
freemint has joined #picolisp
freemint has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
freemint has joined #picolisp
ubLIX has quit [Quit: ubLIX]
freemint has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
_whitelogger has joined #picolisp
inara has quit [Quit: Leaving]
inara has joined #picolisp
inara` has joined #picolisp
inara has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
rob_w has joined #picolisp
lodsw has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
lodsw has joined #picolisp
rob_w has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
mtsd has joined #picolisp
cil_z has joined #picolisp
<Nistur> mornin'
<mtsd> Good morning Nistur!
<mtsd> How are things?
* Nistur blows a raspberry
cil_z has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<Nistur> The brake disks and pads I ordered last Monday, and should have arrived on Thursday (if ParcelForce's 'Express48' meant that it would be delivered within 48h, not that they'd sit on it in Londonderry for 48h before doing anything with it) arrived yesterday, which means that I probably missed the last weekend day with decent weather before June that I could disassemble my car to fit them. It's pouring
<Nistur> with rain today so I think I aquaplaned most of the way to work, and had about 10m visibility. Oh, and MiniNisturette woke up every hour overnight, so I am rather tired
<Nistur> but on the other hand, I have £200 of shiny brakes sitting in my shed now waiting for me to do something with them... so that's good
<mtsd> Life with children.. My youngest woke up at 3 am
<mtsd> He fell asleep soon again, but by then I could not fall asleep
<Nistur> My little one started at some time between 18:30 and 18:45, to start _screaming_. She was quite comfortably cuddling up and dozing off, then she sat up and yelled down my ear. It's been almost the exact same every time for the past week or so. And the last few nights, she's not slept very well either. Getting her to sleep (after the initial screaming, which can take an hour or more to calm her down) is
<Nistur> usually very simple, just needing at most 15 minutes to get her back to sleep, but she wakes herself up far too frequently
<mtsd> How old is she now?
cil_z has joined #picolisp
* Nistur counts on his fingers
<Nistur> 10 weeks today
<Nistur> in 15 minutes, she'll be precisely 10 weeks old
cil_z has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<mtsd> Fantastic! My youngest is 2 years old now
<mtsd> The sleep thing does get better, but the baby years can be tough
<Nistur> I slept through the night consistently from 3 months old... but my wife apparently needed carrying to get her to sleep until she was 1 year old, and apparently didn't sleep through the night until long after that -_-
<Nistur> so it will get better, I'm sure... I'm just a bit worried about when :P
beneroth has joined #picolisp
<Nistur> my wife is also over tired and getting stressed by this, I do what I can in the evenings and overnight, but I _do_ have to go work in the morning, and just being awake at work is generally not enough... so it's a bit difficult to explain to her that I need a bit more sleep, when she also needs sleep (but can _usually_ catch up a bit during the daytime)
<mtsd> It was similar for us
<mtsd> Sleep becomes a valuable ingredient when you become a parent
cilz has joined #picolisp
<Nistur> we went to antenatal classes before, and I think they were a little... hmmm... more weighted towards the mother. I mean, I understand why. But we were specifically told that as the fathers, we arent' allowed to come home and expect things, that after work, it is "our shift" while the mothers relax... which is fine, but it was ALL about doing things for the mothers to make them comfortable etc. In reality
<Nistur> of course it has to be a balance, I do what I can to make MrsNistur more comfortable, I cook, I look after MiniNisturette, I go shopping etc... but at the end of the day I have very very few days holiday remaining at work, so I _need_ to be able to work, which meant I need to have some time to recharge too. Meh.
<Nistur> anyway, enough whinging :P I'm tired, I'm sorry. Other than that, I'm good :)
<mtsd> No problem! I've been there as well. I think all parents with small kids have been there, more or less
<Nistur> wishing that I could lisp some more, but at least one of the projects I'm on now has me writing some actual code, albeit in C#, instead of dragging lines between boxes
<mtsd> I manage to sneak some lisp in here and there
<Nistur> if you're ever planning on making a video game in UE4, Blueprints (formerly kismet) is NOT a substitute for real code
<mtsd> Not as much as I would like, but still..
<Nistur> despite what the lead programmer on this project before me said, they have a tonne of overhead, they're also difficult to debug, maintain, and just grok the meaning
<Nistur> oh, and they don't merge either, so using them with version control is painful
CORDIC has joined #picolisp
<mtsd> I am updating an old Django application at the moment. I think the Lisp experience has changed the way I look at software these days
DKordic has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<mtsd> I am constantly amazed at the amount of code involved..
cilz has quit [Quit: leaving]
<Nistur> I am very happy that I didn't get sucked into webdev stuff. I have struggles in gamedev, but I hear about webdev woes and my struggles sound a lot more fun :P
<beneroth> hi all
<mtsd> Hi beneroth!
<Nistur> o/ beneroth
<beneroth> yo Nistur. keep strong. You will make it, I'm sure!
<beneroth> Hi mtsd.. how messy is the Django? I've only met messy Django projects so far...
cil_z_ has joined #picolisp
<mtsd> It is quite messy, in my opinion. They seem bent on abstracting everything away too much
<beneroth> I'm getting to the end of my current tunnel, better work/life balance ahead, I hope (pretty sure).
<mtsd> Sounds good, beneroth. Hang in there!
<mtsd> I have also only met messy Django projects..
<mtsd> Of course, there might be un-messy ones. But none that I have come across.
<beneroth> mtsd, ah. fits my knowledge about it (not much). mental wankers, being so happy about the beauty of the model, they have forgotten the original intention of the model. see also: SOAP, UML, XML in general, ...
<beneroth> hahaha
<cil_z_> Hi guys
<beneroth> hey cil_z_ !
<cil_z_> hello Beneroth, a long time
<beneroth> what are you busy with?
<cil_z_> I' m now more or less a hobbyist dev mostly far away from computers...
<mtsd> haha, beneroth.. "Mental wankers". Good description :)
<cil_z_> Some time ago I made a small app with R lang and its web framework shiny and now I want to rebuilt it with picolisp...
<Nistur> I misread "mental" as metal and was struggling there for a minute
<cil_z_> it's mostly dealing with rectangular data, filtering and accessing them with a web browser
<beneroth> Nistur, I like metal |m|
<Nistur> I keep considering trying to take one of my previous projects and rewriting it in PIL to see the relative complexity. The only time I tried though, I had more issues because I ended up needing far too much of external libraries, so most of my time was spent wrapping that, and trying to lispify the wrapper
<Nistur> beneroth: \m/ d-_-b \m/
<beneroth> o.-
<beneroth> =)
<Nistur> maybe I can write a brainf*** interpreter in pil. I've written one in C now, and a compiler in 8080 ASM... maybe it'd be fun to write one in pil
<beneroth> yeah, much base work.... as I was told as young hobby gamedev: maybe try first with console
<beneroth> likely :)
<beneroth> (I meant text terminal)
<beneroth> web dev is insane
<beneroth> but game dev is mostly self-exploitation, or so it looks to me from outside :(
<Nistur> beneroth: my previous pil port was not gamedev at all. It was actually a port of some bash scripts I had to generate a LEGO instruction manual from renders of the individual steps :P So I was wrapping imagemagick to do loads of image manipulation stuff
<beneroth> oh wow
<beneroth> sounds like a hazzle AND a cool project
<Nistur> and yeah, gamedev _can_ be like that, but the people who work in gamedev _usually_ do it for passion. It's generally underpaid and, programmers especially, have no problem getting higher paid jobs in other industries. They stay in gamedev because they enjoy it so we cannot REALLY complain about the long hours
<beneroth> I fully understand. not like my work conditions are better. but they should be :)
<Nistur> beneroth: that was the bash version. Mostly irrelevant now because the software I was using to do the renders ( now will generate instructions itself, so my scripts are no longer "needed"
<beneroth> at least in gamedev the programming art is more visible / recognized than for example "beautiful accounting implementations" xD
<Nistur> if I had time to do more LEGO models, then I might maintain this, or rewrite it, as I like to be in control of as much of the pipeline as possible
<beneroth> just perfect, nice!
<Nistur> the arrows were hand drawn overlays, the rest was renders, or generated
* Nistur shrugs
<Nistur> I was most recently trying to make a version of ZZ Top's Eliminator hotrod in that scale LEGO :P... a '33 Ford I think, from memory
<beneroth> nice
<Nistur> Hmmm, I think, yes... I will write a brainf*** interpreter in pil. That should be a fun little project, I think
freemint has joined #picolisp
<Regenaxer> Nistur, btw, there is a brainf*** interpreter in pil in rosettacode
<Nistur> Regenaxer: I'm sure there is, and I shall not look at it, because with silly projects like this to learn, I find it more beneficial to figure things out myself :P
<Regenaxer> yeah, very wise :)
ubLIX has joined #picolisp
<Nistur> I'll usually do things from scratch, researching the problem, but not solutions, and then compare against existing solutions when I have something working
<Nistur> That's why, for example, my 8 bit CPU emulator I wrote doesn't use a giant switch block like most CPU emulation implementations, but basically sets up a jump table of function pointers :P Not sure if it's quicker or not, but it was how I worked it out based on the problem :P
<Regenaxer> A switch statement usually also compiles to a jump table
<Regenaxer> I have problems with llvm-link, it reorders global symbols, but pil depends on the order
<Regenaxer> can't find an option to disable this
<Nistur> maybe, but you'd jump to somewhere which probably will jump to somewhere else (the instruction implementation) or you end up with a gigantic switch block... I mean, more gigantic than the bare switch... while mine has jumps directly to the implementation. I guess a compiler might optimise to that anyway... *shrug*
<Nistur> llvm doing something it thinks is best? Shocking :P
<Regenaxer> T
<Regenaxer> It puts stuff into the middle of my symbol table
<Nistur> Regenaxer: my jump table for Motorola 6800, WARNING: heavy abuse of C preprocessor
<Regenaxer> hehe
<Nistur> (m6800 is barely supported, this is still very much WIP. i8080 is the only fully supported CPU)
<beneroth> hi Regenaxer :)
<beneroth> no flag to disable those "optimizations" ?
<beneroth> smart software is the worst...
<Regenaxer> I tried -mno-fixup but didn't help
<Regenaxer> I can't even find a full doc of llvm-link :(
<Regenaxer> llvm --help lists tons of such flags, but no exzlanation
ubLIX has quit [Quit: ubLIX]
xkapastel has joined #picolisp
<Regenaxer> Yeah, I'm just asking in the llvm irc
<beneroth> I find nothing when searching for "llvm memory layout optimization"
<beneroth> good luck
m_mans has joined #picolisp
<m_mans> Hi all :)
<Regenaxer> Thanks!
<Regenaxer> oh! Hi m_mans!
<m_mans> Yeah, it's me ))
<Regenaxer> :)
<m_mans> I hope everything goes well here
<m_mans> And I've changed job (again)
<Regenaxer> oh!
<Regenaxer> To the better?
<m_mans> Regenaxer: I hope so, 1 week passed
<m_mans> Huge russian IT-company (5000 employees total, 1000 IT-related)
<Regenaxer> Cool!
freemint has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
rob_w has joined #picolisp
<beneroth> m_mans, congratz :)
freemint has joined #picolisp
<m_mans> beneroth thanks :)
m_mans has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
rob_w has quit [Quit: Leaving]
andyjpb has joined #picolisp
freeemint has joined #picolisp
freemint has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
mtsd has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
xkapastel has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
libertas has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
freeemint has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
orivej has joined #picolisp
andyjpb has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
freeemint has joined #picolisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
andyjpb has joined #picolisp
cil_z_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
freeemint has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
freeemint has joined #picolisp
beneroth has quit [Quit: Leaving]
cil_z_ has joined #picolisp
libertas has joined #picolisp
orivej has joined #picolisp
ubLIX has joined #picolisp
beneroth has joined #picolisp
cil_z_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
cil_z_ has joined #picolisp
cil_z_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
beneroth has quit [Quit: Leaving]
freeemint has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
freeemint has joined #picolisp
ubLIX has quit [Quit: ubLIX]