antocuni changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/pypy/ ) | use cffi for calling C | "PyPy: the Gradual Reduction of Magic (tm)"
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<fijal> lots of green, yay?
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<kenaan> arigo default c166d499b6d8 /pypy/module/thread/: Issue #2689 thread.Lock objects are weakrefable in CPython
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<kenaan> arigo default ecedc8227476 /pypy/module/thread/: thread._local() should be weakrefable
<kenaan> arigo default cd23d604d4bc /pypy/module/struct/: struct.Struct() objects should be weakrefable
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<squeaky_pl> In the process of releasing PyPy 5.10 I discovered that ncurses can be built with utf-8 support which makes every ncurses SO get an extra letter "w" for wide I believe. This way you can have libncurses and libncursesw side by wide. But most distributions these days rename libncursesw to libncurses and ship in fact libncursesw.
<squeaky_pl> side by side*
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<Rotonen> fijal (and to whomever else it may concern): https://pastebin.com/nyV62DA7 <- so this is what we're doing for cpython on macos for embedding into a sandboxed app targeting a range of macos versions building on the latest macos
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<mattip> squeaky_pl: our cffi wrapper for ncurses builds a cffi-extension module which, at compile time, searches for first ncursesw then ncurses
<mattip> so we ship linked to whichever happened to be found on the buildbot
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<squeaky_pl> mattip, it is more complex. minimal_curses (the one you run in platform checks) doesnt look at ncursesw at all
<squeaky_pl> then when you search for cursesw you dont link to libpanelw,
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<squeaky_pl> the situation is much more complex then the cases you account for
<squeaky_pl> curses can be built in dozen of ways
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<squeaky_pl> but I wont bother you too much since every distro does that differently
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<mattip> uhh, what is _minimal_curses?
<squeaky_pl> it's a check you run before translation
<squeaky_pl> i think it has something to do with libtinfo
<squeaky_pl> which is part of ncurses
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<mattip> ok, and I see we have a pypy module by that name, but why does it exist?
<squeaky_pl> libpypy-c links to libtinfo
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<squeaky_pl> which is part of ncurses, it can be a separate shared object or not
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<mattip> we only link to it because we have a module called _minimal_curses, my question is why do we have that module by default?
<mattip> is it a left-over from the days before cffi-based _curses ?
<squeaky_pl> it might be, but I assumed it's because of libtinfo
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<mattip> no, the other way around. We have libtinfo because we use _minimal_curses
<squeaky_pl> yes, that library is the database of terminals
<mattip> even the documentation says "don't use this"
<squeaky_pl> yes but you cannot translate without it
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<squeaky_pl> i mean if the checks fail there translation is aborted
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<mattip> you tried --withoutmod-_minimal_curses ?
<squeaky_pl> no, but since it's default on I though you do it on purpose
<mattip> it seems to be a mistake
* mattip trying
<squeaky_pl> anyway I already patched it and i've been always building this like so and nobody complained
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<Rotonen> less is more, take your diligence as a victory? :P
<mattip> got it, we use it in pyrepl. I wonder if we can use _curses these days?
<squeaky_pl> I vaguely remember arigato tried to fight this one once
<mattip> ok, so ncursesw vs. ncurses built into pypy is only an issue for pyrepl, "normal" curses users get the cffi-based implementation
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<mattip> more confusion. If we are linking to ncurses/curses and tinfo, why does only libtinfo.so show up in ldd libpypy-c.so ?
<mattip> just for the platform checks?
<mattip> s/^/is it/
<mattip> on to my next confusion
<mattip> why didn't we merge py3.5-mac-embedding into default, do the problems it solves not appear on pypy2?
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<mattip> py3.5-mac-embedding adds download-and-build to create_cffi_import_library for _ssl (LibreSSL/libressl-2.6.2.tar.gz) , lzma, _gdbm
<mattip> on darwin, but only for py3.5
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<mattip> I guess that would only help for the cffi-based _ssl in py3.5, the one in py2.7 is still rpython-based
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<njs> do you use libressl instead of openssl? curious about why if so.
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