<wolfspraul>
the comments are encouraging, encouraging to see how many people think themselves and see the exact same weirdness we discussed earlier
<wolfspraul>
we are on the right track...
<wolfspraul>
"So a tivo that required you to send it in to the factory to change the linux install on it would not require you to provide the linux source code?"
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
"So is the FSF the "Free high-level software foundation" now?"
<wolfspraul>
"It definitely looks to me as if they're applying different standards to different kinds of software, without good reason."
<wolfspraul>
and so on
<wolfspraul>
I'm thinking about moving ben-wpan and the sige gps work to the 12/1 community news
<wolfspraul>
11/1 is overloaded and those two should still be very much fresh and new one month later
<wolfspraul>
if there are objections, let me know...
<wpwrak>
fine with me. though i still think you could conveniently make a 11/18 and still have material for 12/1 :)
<wpwrak>
err .. 10/18 and 11/1, of course
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: quick question about Ornotermes work and the ben-blinkenlights KiCad project
<wolfspraul>
which was first? how do they relate to each other?
<wolfspraul>
Ornoterms has an illustrated diy-guide with great pictures he took himself
<wolfspraul>
that much is clear
<wolfspraul>
David used the software in ben-blinkenlights in the video he uploaded
<wolfspraul>
that's also clear
<wolfspraul>
(I think)
<wolfspraul>
but what about the KiCad files in ben-blinkenlights? they were just added as documentation? is there a layout too?
<wpwrak>
Ornitermes was first with idea and design
<wolfspraul>
(not that there is much to layout, I'm just trying to credit people correctly)
<wpwrak>
i then redid everything in kicad and had the first things actually running :)
<wpwrak>
layout: you mean bbl.brd ?
<wolfspraul>
so is this accurate: Ornotermes and Werner built an SDIO breakout board, Ornoterms published a great illustrated DIY guide, and Werner uploaded KiCad files and demo software to the projects server.
<wolfspraul>
maybe I'll shorten a bit but are the facts accurate?
<wolfspraul>
'SDIO breakout cable' is better maybe...
<wpwrak>
hmm s/uploaded/made/
<wpwrak>
i did just the blinkenlights board (and then reused the design in atusd)
<wpwrak>
Ornotermes made a breakout cable
<wpwrak>
i would also give him (solo) credit for the idea
<wpwrak>
e.g., something like: Ornotermes had the idea to use the uSD slot for a breakout board. he and werner then built [...]
<wolfspraul>
great, thanks
<qwebirc10130>
i am writing one routine to accept some input from the user using getch()
<qwebirc10130>
but i need to allow backspace key also in it
<qwebirc10130>
how can I do it , plz help
<kyak>
i think you need to use readline library, but i might be mistaken
<qwebirc10130>
anybody who can answer my query
<xiangfu>
qwebirc10130: why your getch() cann't get the KEY_BACKSPACE ?, it's should read KEY_BACKSPACE as well.
<qwebirc10130>
hi xiangfu
<qwebirc10130>
getch() doesnt work in linux
<qwebirc10130>
s i have used getchar with some terminal settings
<kristianpaul>
"if I have to spend an hour using the computer to change the code that is OK, but if I have to spend ten minutes using the soldering iron to achieve the same goal, that's not OK." he
<kristianpaul>
Well solder not soo much but at least you he should be able to plug  JTAG cable or soemthing, wich came to the point of the "hiden" sofware in lockware
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: and the guy before that is even wrong.
<wolfspraul>
he thinks if you have to send it back to the factory, where the factory uses its secret software for updates, that's not what the fsf has in mind.
<wolfspraul>
but unfortunately, and sadly, that is in fact what the fsf has in mind.
<wolfspraul>
this will only get worse the more the fsf talks about it, so let's hope this whole endorsement program dies a silent death :-) for our all good.
<wolfspraul>
otherwise the fsf will ruin some of their hard earned reputation, that's all.
<methril_work>
morning
<qbject>
Morning, all./
<mstevens>
yo
<djbclark>
qbject: getting batteries China -> US is often hard - but that is a good point, I should ask appropriate people about that, will make a note, thanks!
<djbclark>
and wolfspraul seem to be on 180 degree different scheduled :-(
<wpwrak>
djbclark: hard due to the chinese paperwork, or are there other issues ?
<djbclark>
wpwrak: due to shipping companies not wanting to ship large concentrations of things that could explode a lot. But maybe I'm being silly... Do you remember what type of battery chemistry is in nanonote batteries?
<wpwrak>
djbclark: ah yes, shipping companies may have a word there as well. dunno the chemistry but anything reasonably compact and modern is of the "dangerous" kind
<djbclark>
wpwrak: I recall the Ben Nanonote battery was semi-standard however, so maybe could find US suppier. Or there is sketch remailr in China I can use (but they do not guarantee things will get through).
<djbclark>
wpwrak: yeah that is what I was thinking of. But currently just trying to get to place where we have Ben Nanonote available from freedomincluded.com :-)
<wpwrak>
sure. one step after another :)
<qbject>
djbclark: Thanks for looking into it. Looking forward to getting my BNN #2 from you once they're available.
<kyak>
second Ben? are you going to build a Ben-based supercomputer? :)
<qbject>
someday, perhaps. :)
<kyak>
i have special plans for Ben when Ya gets out
<kyak>
but not before that :)
<qbject>
For now I'm both very attached to having one that works, and very interested in tearing one apart to start designing new housings.
<kyak>
wow.. great plans
<djbclark>
qbject: If you like really really want one now I can set up for payment, but it'd come either with a really-alpha LibreWRT or whatever came on it.
<djbclark>
qbject: Oh, so you'd prefer a broken one? I think someone mentioned having one of those they were willing to donate on the list a while back.
<qbject>
djbclark: Thanks, but I'm still working on getting my milling machine shipped across the country, so I'm not ready just yet.
<djbclark>
qbject: k, ping me when you are :)
<qbject>
Hmm. I'll check the logs. Might be useful...
<djbclark>
qbject: or if not, just ask on the lists, I'm sure someone has managed to drop one from 10' up onto concrete or something by now!
<djbclark>
qbject: Also Sharism might just have rejects that never workd.
<qbject>
djbclark: Thanks for that thought. I've been missing wolfie pretty effectively myself, but I'll chat him up about it if I ever get the chance.
<djbclark>
owes him several emails... if only fires would stay put out :-D
<kyak>
trying to figure out.. why the history is saved to /.ash_history when i'm logged to Ben directly and to ~/.ash_history when i'm logged in via ssh
<xdpirate>
yo, anyone got the link to the newest bootloader/kernel/userland?
<kyak>
wpwrak: i'm cross-checking the "env" output from ssh and tty, the only difference is "SHELL"
<xdpirate>
sweet
<kyak>
in case of ssh, it is /bin/ash, in case of tty it is /bin/sh for some reason
<kyak>
the HOME is the same, though after loging to tty the PWD is set to /
<kyak>
so this is all really strange to me
<kyak>
it looks to me that PWD is inherited from parent process
<kyak>
in case of ssh it is dropbear
<kyak>
while in case of tty it is init
<kyak>
something is really wrong here
<kyak>
ok, problem solved.. i saw there is a HISTFILE env var
<kyak>
so i just set it profile
<kyak>
anyway it is a bug in busybox, it checks the HOME variable before reading /etc/profile
<wpwrak>
kyak: gotta love all those little busybox quirks :)
<qbject>
Jeez. How long does it take to recharge a BNN from dead-flat?
<qbject>
Ah, it must've cycled on when I pulled the battery to see if it was frozen. All better.
<xdpirate>
is it possible to change fonts on the fly in the newest version?
<xdpirate>
nevermind, got it :)
<xdpirate>
do we have gcc in openwrt yet? been away for a couple of months
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: Catalog listing and enhanced versions of various BOOM items from ben-wpan/bom. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/c1574ce
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: you'll like this. i've added a new file type to BOOM. it's even a four-letter one, .catq for catalog queries.
<wolfspraul>
does the system support minimum order amounts for each source?
<wolfspraul>
say "500 USD minimum" when ordering from ABC
<wpwrak>
no, it doesn't know per-source characteristics at all
<wpwrak>
e.g., shipping cost or such
<wolfspraul>
maybe a chance to introduce a few more extensions?
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wpwrak>
i'll worry about this a bit later :)
<wolfspraul>
yes good
<wolfspraul>
just came to my mind thinking about it
<wpwrak>
right now, i'm populating the catalog. just wrote part number decoders for the most common resistors from stackpole and panasonic. about 6000 in total.
<wolfspraul>
oh!
<wpwrak>
a little more efficient than hand-picking those things :)
<wpwrak>
now i'm hammering digi-key with 5000 inventory queries, for the panasonic parts ...