<DocScrutinizer05>
oh dear! I *hate* TV science for the plebs. "the earth needs exactly one year to complete once circle around the sun" What a fluke! *cough* NO you *idiots*! one year is exactly the time the earn needs to complete a circle around the earth
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/earn/earth/
<qi-bot>
DocScrutinizer05 meant: "oh dear! I *hate* TV science for the plebs. "the earth needs exactly one year to complete once circle around the sun" What a fluke! *cough* NO you *idiots*! one year is exactly the time the earth needs to complete a circle around the earth"
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/exactly the/defined as the/
<qi-bot>
DocScrutinizer05 meant: "oh dear! I *hate* TV science for the plebs. "the earth needs exactly one year to complete once circle around the sun" What a fluke! *cough* NO you *idiots*! one year is defined as the time the earth needs to complete a circle around the earth"
<wpwrak>
you mean the sun around the earth ? or did you watch a program of those worthless aristotle-doubters ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/around the earth/around the sun/ damnit
<qi-bot>
DocScrutinizer05 meant: "oh dear! I *hate* TV science for the plebs. "the earth needs exactly one year to complete once circle around the sun" What a fluke! *cough* NO you *idiots*! one year is defined as the time the earth needs to complete a circle around the sun"
<wpwrak>
well, what a lucky coincidence, isn't it :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
Harald Lesch: "man sollte sich nicht wundern dass die Katze da wo die Augen sind Loecher im Fell hat"
<wpwrak>
well, evolution explains that. the cats who had the holes elsewhere couldn't see and were run over by chariots. (they didn't have cars back then)
<whitequark>
cats?
<whitequark>
what?
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: quoted "one shouldn't be surprised that cats have their eyes where there are holes in the coat"
<DocScrutinizer05>
the puddle thinks: "what a miracle that the gound is so comfortably formed to accomodate each single one of my bumps and dents and bays"
<wpwrak>
and yes, coat as in fur :)
<wpwrak>
effect is rather pleased that cause took care of matching it so neatly
<DocScrutinizer05>
"peeeeerfectly!"
<DocScrutinizer05>
go figure: the earth would only need 0.8 years to turn around the sun once
<wpwrak>
well, if something bumped into it, it would
<wpwrak>
or, rather, it could
<wpwrak>
also, a calendar year isn't strictly the time the earth takes for one rotation around the sun
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, actually it wouldn't. Just Greenwich had a lot of trouble with their leap seconds then
<wpwrak>
so in a way, they're quite correct :)
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<wpwrak>
make something big enough bump into it. well, preferably several things, as one hit big enough to change the orbit like that wouldn't be much fun
<wpwrak>
at 0.8 AU, closeness to venus may also become a bit of a problem
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, and since the moon is constantly decelerating the earth, in a few billion years it will take 3 days from one sunrise to the next, right?
<DocScrutinizer05>
(btw I'm already accomodating to that effect, so I'm ahead of my time)
<wpwrak>
well, that depends a lot on what time reference the alien visitors who'll observe that will use
<DocScrutinizer05>
that TV crap for sure did use the SOL3/earth/human definition of "year"
<whitequark>
are you guys doing drugs again? :]
<wpwrak>
because by the time you're at 3 present days, the sun will have done some unpleasant thing ...
<wpwrak>
whitequark: naw, we quit all those downers :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, dunno. Not sure how long it will take. But I'm sure another myth is nonsense: that the moon eventually will vanish in empty space since it separated from earth too much
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: well, it's not going to exactly vanish, it'll still make circles around the sun
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're aware that the efect that increases the moon's orbit distance is diminuishing with orbit distance?
<DocScrutinizer05>
and with earth own rotation decelerating, too
<whitequark>
oh, you're totally right
<wpwrak>
well, it is presently escaping at about 3.8 cm/year
<whitequark>
it'll just continue until moon and earth are tidally locked.
<whitequark>
just like a set of others satellites
<DocScrutinizer05>
I bet it's rather easy to calculate moon orbital distance when eart rotation came to a halt, like moon's rotation did long ago
<whitequark>
yup, just add rotational energy of earth to the energy of gravitational field
<DocScrutinizer05>
"caqme to a halt" -> "... in relation to moon"
<DocScrutinizer05>
so, about maybe 50 times what a day takes now
<DocScrutinizer05>
we can make a little bet, who's closest wins the pot
<DocScrutinizer05>
I say: current rotation speed / 57 is where moon gets in sync with earth
<DocScrutinizer05>
funny that moon seems to already have stopped completely. I wonder how that happened, and if the moon went back and forth in the end, like a pendulum
<DocScrutinizer05>
or maybe it still does?
<DocScrutinizer05>
with a period of a few dozen million years?
<DocScrutinizer05>
dang, 10 days off. Still the best guess of all
<DocScrutinizer05>
wait, does my initial guess count?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hmmpf, 50 billion years
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>about 2.3 billion years from now, the increase of the Sun's radiation will have caused the Earth's oceans to vaporize,<< that's unfair ;-P
<wpwrak>
you'll be really good at "flappy bird" by then :)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
what's "flappy bird"?
<wpwrak>
and 2.3 Gyr should be enough to build a decent radiation shelter with air conditioning ;)
<wpwrak>
google for it :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm not concerned about the shelter. It's the lack of tide acceleration that spoils the bet
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually that 47 factor never will happen
<DocScrutinizer05>
or maybe in a few 100 billion years
<DocScrutinizer05>
and for sure not as a steady endpoint state
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: in about 600 My C3 photosynthesis will become impossible
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<wpwrak>
i knew it ! us carnivores will outlive the vegetarians :)
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<whitequark>
no, plants will outlive us all
<whitequark>
but not by long
<whitequark>
well, I suppose 600 My is rather enough to gtfo out of here
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<eintopf>
DocScrutinizer05: "flappy bird" is a boring popular fancy android game. But it's a remake of an very old game.
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<CYB3R>
eintopf: what is the name of the original game
<CYB3R>
?
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<eintopf>
mhh, I can play it on my rockbox device but that's not a bird... it's a helicopter
<zrafa>
wpwrak: I am using a jlime installed a long ago
<zrafa>
wpwrak: Jlime$ find /sys | grep at86
<zrafa>
Jlime$ lsmod | grep at
<zrafa>
Jlime$ dmesg | grep at86
<zrafa>
Jlime$
<wpwrak>
alright, nothing there
<wpwrak>
very weird that you'd get 3 V
<zrafa>
wpwrak: maybe SIE board is too different in those pins in comparison with ben
<wpwrak>
lemme see what else could get in the way ...
<zrafa>
I need to go out for two hours, but I will keep in the channel. THanks a lot for your help . I will continue testing the software and will keep you informed :)
<wpwrak>
that would be an explanation. but it shouldn't be.
<wpwrak>
if yuo can try with your ben, that would help
<wpwrak>
do you have an UBB ?
<zrafa>
around ten from you from tuxbrain :) So it is great to test the software
<zrafa>
I will bring myben to uni. I am doing those tests here
<wpwrak>
perfect (2x) :)
<wpwrak>
one possibility would be that the pins are configured as interrupt. that may disable gpio output. ubbctl doesn't consider this possibility yet. lemme try it out ...
<zrafa>
more odd: just dat2 and CLK does not have 3v. THe others all have 3v
<zrafa>
wpwrak: ^
<zrafa>
wpwrak: btw, with jlime toolchain I needed to build ubbctl with -lgcc_s in order to link without a horrible error gcc+ld showed
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<wpwrak>
-lgcc_s seems odd :) if i have jlime vs. owrt issues, i usually just use -static ;-)
<wpwrak>
your results are all very odd. that's without anything collected on the outside ? on a SIE, and using the latest ubbctl ? (i.e., with the interrupt configuration i just added now)
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<zrafa>
wpwrak: no latest with the interrupt configuration :)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: I will try
<zrafa>
in a while
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<zrafa>
wpwrak: okey, testing latest ubbctl
<zrafa>
the only pins which ubbctl looks to control is CMD and DAT0
<zrafa>
but the others looks like always 3v (DAT3, DAT1 and vdd)
<wpwrak>
lemme check the SIE schematics. maybe the port is different
<wpwrak>
did you get your ben ?
<zrafa>
DAT2 always is 0, still if I set it to 1 with ubbctl.
<zrafa>
wpwrak: no yet, at uni now. Maybe I check from home :)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: short status:
<zrafa>
With nPWR=0 DAT3, DAT1, and VDD are always having 3V. NO matter if I set them 1 or 0
<zrafa>
With nPWR=0 DAT2 is always having 0v. No matter if I set it 1 or 0
<wpwrak>
on the ben, ou get weird levels if nPWR = 1 because the inputs then float and everything but CLK is connected via the pull-ups (which float as well in this case)
<zrafa>
WIth nPWR=0 I can set CMD and DAT0, 1 or 0, and it gives me 3v or 0v after set by software with ubbctl
<wpwrak>
your SIE is v2 ?
<zrafa>
So CMD and DAT0 looks like have proper behaviour set by ubbctl
<zrafa>
let me check sie version
<zrafa>
board says : "SACK_BOARD RC1" 20100317
<wpwrak>
;-))
<wpwrak>
SIE only connects CMD, CLK, and DAT0 ;-)
<wpwrak>
that's actually enough to make SWD work. you just need to tweak ben.c a little
<wpwrak>
SIE also doesn
<wpwrak>
't have the nPWR switch, so power is always on
<zrafa>
wpwrak: that explains why I can control DAT0 and CMD like I want (on/off 3v/0v) via ubbctl right? :)
<wpwrak>
yes, and CLK should be good, too
<zrafa>
wpwrak: ahh.. right. Let me check
<wpwrak>
they're on the same port and pins as on the ben
<wpwrak>
in anelok/libswd/ben.c you see that i already use CLK and DAT0. just move SWD_DIO over to CMD and you should be fine
<zrafa>
wpwrak: I can control CLK as well :)
<wpwrak>
well, unless .... lemme check what happens with nPWR ...
<wpwrak>
nPWR may not be even bonded out
<wpwrak>
so it's safe to let libswd do whatever it's doing with it now
<zrafa>
wpwrak: cool. THanks a lot !!! I had not checked sie schematics before tests, because I do not understand them mainly :)
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<zrafa>
wpwrak: I guess that Rodo did today or yesterday, but I have not seen him since. anyway I will give him the news about we can continue with the tests of libswd using sie as well, still if he already knows :)
<wpwrak>
and once you control your little kinetis chips, you can even make your own SWD programmer ;-)
<zrafa>
I was hoping that your swd programmer would be useful for those chips as well ;-)))
<wpwrak>
it shuoldn't need much change. try loading a led blinker and see how it goes
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<wpwrak>
there's a blinker in ybox/fw/ybox.c revision b0b84100ca03c094509c105a994edc1e0e08cb73
<wpwrak>
blinks pin 30 on port E. note the setting of clock gates
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<wpwrak>
later revisions use my gpio library. but that one is a little harder to understand
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<DocScrutinizer05>
nah, intriguer's galore, and I have to defend myself and the democratic majority of maemo
<wpwrak>
you seem to have a talent for getting drawn into these things ...
<DocScrutinizer05>
nah, it's teh age old BS of accountants trying to tell techstaff how to do their job
<DocScrutinizer05>
the*
<DocScrutinizer05>
this time they even gone really busy, doing that admin business by themselves and without informing or coordinating with sysops
<DocScrutinizer05>
neither with maemo council which is highest authority in maemo
<wpwrak>
when i was a little kid, it was all the rage to form "gangs". so i thought i'd make mine. designed a hierarchy (me on top, naturally), made insignia from shiny promotional stickers, even defined gang rules along with a penal code for those violating them. of course this thing didn't even last a day. but man, was i serious about it.
<wpwrak>
"maemo council which is highest authority in maemo" sounds very much like that ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: I don't mind what you think it sounds, it's an elected entity to manage all business that the ~30k people in maemo community can't manage on their own
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's up to council to e.g. decide about packages that have to get deleted from repos for one reason or another (dangerous, rogue, copyright...), or about general decisions regarding management of the maemo infra
<wpwrak>
wow, it's bigger than i thought. so not you're into serious politics. shall i congratulate or pity you ? ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
and unlike your little gang, it's pretty hard to find somebody foolish enough to waste his time for that thing, and it lasts since 4 or 5 years now
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<DocScrutinizer05>
and thanks, a litle pity is appreciated. It's a PITA
<wpwrak>
ah well, politics. i guess you either have what it takes to be good at them, or you're a decent human being :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
kinda to the point, yes. Just that council never been about politics
<DocScrutinizer05>
at least not meant to
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's as much about politics as is steward of a multi-apartment house
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you consider painting the stairway with new color politics, then yes, council is all about politics
<wpwrak>
(steawrd) bwah. if THAT sort of snake pit is no politics for you ...
<DocScrutinizer05>
but in the end the steward is just the idiot to get his ass kicked by everybody
<wpwrak>
that's what it does indeed seem to boil down to
<DocScrutinizer05>
and now the accountant has decided that they rather paint the stairway themselves and wants to kick the steward
<wpwrak>
which would be you, i guess
<DocScrutinizer05>
but here similarities end, since maemo accountant has no saying in steward's tasks
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, actually no, I'm also maemo infra manager, which basically means I'm the steward of the sysops. And the accountant wants to manage sysops now and discard me from that position
<wpwrak>
thank them and be happy to have more time for more productive tasks ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
but accountant has no saying in that, it's council's domain to decide about it
<wpwrak>
well, they decided to bypass that already. so the coup seems perfect. hey, sysop isn't much fun unless you get to play BOFH every day.
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, nope. Neither the sysops nor the council nor I think that maemo will survive when the management gets done by those guys
<DocScrutinizer05>
and again, it's not the cashier to decide how system management gets done, or by whom
<wpwrak>
the best way to prove their inability is to let them run the show for a bit. then, when the villagers come for them with torches and pitchforks, you can raise up from the ashes like a phoenix. or maybe you'll have lost interest in such silly games by then and someone else does it.
<DocScrutinizer05>
we been there, seen the chaos
<DocScrutinizer05>
roundabout 12 months ago
<wpwrak>
;-) then alert the troops and let them battle it out
<DocScrutinizer05>
MTHEL
<DocScrutinizer05>
one of our sysops in a chat with me: >>i supposes that you should ask which will be the new planned situation after you leave... techstaff is not a bitch. We are not supposed to accept any director or coordinator<<
<wpwrak>
if all else fails, just move all the stuff you care about to github and let them manage their little playground
<DocScrutinizer05>
we're sooooo || close to doing exactly that
<wpwrak>
naw, seriously, this sounds like exactly the sort of job you want to get rid of. you may not think of it like that now, but you may consider it the highlight of all of 2014 in hindsight, even eclipsing the start of neo900 production and your invitation to give the opening keynote at MWC 2015 ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
believe me, no hindsight needed. It's just my sense of responsibility that makes me engage in this bullshit dogfight
<DocScrutinizer05>
and of course the guys who ask me to NOT quit
<DocScrutinizer05>
first of all the sysops
<wpwrak>
maybe take a little walk through the city, consider the monuments honoring famous sysops. that should clear your head :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
if they'd think they are happy without me around, I'd leave with speed of light
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't care if those sysops are famous
<DocScrutinizer05>
I see them doing a brilliant job and all I can do to help them I will do. They asked me to not quit and continue holding the keys and the accountability for what's going on inside our infra
<DocScrutinizer05>
they are volunteers like I am
<wpwrak>
btw, how is neo900 coming along. it's been a long time that you haven't mentioned anything technical. has it become boring, with all issues solved ? of waiting for another batch of pcbs ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
our common interest is to keep maemo_the_OS alive
<DocScrutinizer05>
I received a mail from my notary today, that we can make an appointment to start founding a Limited
<wpwrak>
whee ! so all technical work rests until this is sorted out ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yesterday I ahd a envelope in my letterbox with a bare PCB from Nik
<wpwrak>
ah, nice :)
<wpwrak>
does it look good ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
a few days ago I found a RGB LED driver that does common anode
<whitequark>
that was hard?
<DocScrutinizer05>
not really
<DocScrutinizer05>
err dang, sorry, common cathode?
<DocScrutinizer05>
we couldn't find RGB LEDs for the lp5523
<DocScrutinizer05>
I need a electrical-current sensor on hall basis - i.e. with a EST of <50mR, and capable of detecting <10mA. Any suggestions?
<DocScrutinizer05>
ESR even
<DocScrutinizer05>
alternative concepts welcome
<DocScrutinizer05>
e.g a opamp working on 50µV would also be fine
<wpwrak>
for lab use ? part of the device ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
part of device
<DocScrutinizer05>
sensing supply current of modem
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<DocScrutinizer05>
so it shall have low ESR, detect <10mA reliably (or as small a current as it gets, the 10mA are a ballpark nr), and withstand >3A bursts
<wpwrak>
what bandwidth ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
doesn't matter much
<DocScrutinizer05>
shouldn't miss bursts in the range of several milliseconds
<DocScrutinizer05>
precision also doesn't matter
<wpwrak>
ok, DC ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, basically DC
<DocScrutinizer05>
if the sensor averages over a window, the window time may even be in the range of seconds
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: use a battery monitor? let me remember how is it properly named
<DocScrutinizer05>
I recall to have seen a few SMD hall sensors made for current sensing
<DocScrutinizer05>
but actually yeah, why not simply use a dedicated bq27200
<DocScrutinizer05>
whether there's one or two 10mR in series to battery, as seen from modem, shouldn't matter much
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
oops, 20mR?
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: tthanks, how silly of me
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: you're welcome
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, any suggestion for a dirt simple yes/no detector for >20mW@50R in the frequency range of 500..2800MHz?
<DocScrutinizer05>
probably abusing any arbitrary opamp will already do, the clamp diodes should suffice to rectify the RF
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<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: you know those cellphone straps with LEDs blinking when there's RF traffic?
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<whitequark>
I doubt you can go simpler than that
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<DocScrutinizer05>
yep, I know them. Did you know that they are outlawed since they introduce massive harmonics?
<whitequark>
really?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<whitequark>
any articles on that? never heard of
<whitequark>
perhaps not outlawed in RU
<DocScrutinizer05>
one of them even reliably caused my Nokia 2110 to lose connection
<whitequark>
wow
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<DocScrutinizer05>
you can't find them anymore here. I had a damn hard time to find one a maybe 5 years ago
<DocScrutinizer05>
thus I don't have any of those critters. A pity
<DocScrutinizer05>
but yeah, there are powered ones, with a transistor inside
<whitequark>
well, I mean, they're not exactly complex inside
<whitequark>
no, I don't think so
<whitequark>
I recall a dude in my highschool recreating one with a LED, a RF diode and two pieces of wire of precise length
<DocScrutinizer05>
I have a powered one, a key ring
<whitequark>
it worked like a charm
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, that's the simple wariant. LED + schottky diode + wire
<DocScrutinizer05>
variant even
<wpwrak>
hmm, i'd try to keep my RF signal path clean
<wpwrak>
if i want to honeypot my phone, i'll fire up real RF equipment and do it with that, but for just making sure it doens't talk to strangers, simply grounding its power supply ought to be sufficient
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<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: the concept is different. We don't want to shut down the phone since that's not what it's made for. We want to monitor and analyze its activities
<DocScrutinizer05>
grounding power supply would also disable the receiver
<wpwrak>
well, a phone goes on the air all the time. any malware worth its silver would simply piggy-back on that
<wpwrak>
so unless you actually build a full receiver into it, you still won't see what's really going on
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, a phone goes "on the air" only on area handover (not even cell handover, when both cells are same area code), and on expiry of T3212 timer
<DocScrutinizer05>
and that location update is always looking pretty identical and short
<DocScrutinizer05>
and any malware would need to store and compress data for several hours and then send it via high bandwidth hidden channel when any such even makes modem go on the air
<DocScrutinizer05>
which is pretty hard to establish in modem firmware
<DocScrutinizer05>
NB that we consider linux APE safe per definition
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's only about modem firmware
<DocScrutinizer05>
in the end it's a feature for the tinfoil hat fraction
<wpwrak>
hmm, may be more useful to leave some room for SDR that actually has a chance to decode what the modem sends
<DocScrutinizer05>
haha
<DocScrutinizer05>
or we ship your set of a dozen private BTS
<DocScrutinizer05>
with the phone
<wpwrak>
well, talk to harald about that ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, I'm short on time for that fun
<wpwrak>
but seriously, merely detecting that the phone goes on the air seems more like a placebo to me. besides, anyone who really cares can carry a separate detection device. actually, they probably already own one :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
again, I don't care
<wpwrak>
and it seems that "serious" implants already hide in those regular transmissions. i didn't follow the TAO revelations in detail but some of them go clearly in this direction
<DocScrutinizer05>
we don't employ a low-ESR FET (or 3) to switch off the modem hard, we use the money for detectors rather
<wpwrak>
hmm, ground the TX antenna ? :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
THE FSCK there is no TX antenna
<wpwrak>
well, TX path
<wpwrak>
however it is implemented
<DocScrutinizer05>
no
<DocScrutinizer05>
why should I?
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's even more silly than anything else
<DocScrutinizer05>
and more expensive and hard to do
<wpwrak>
well, it's an alternative. and maybe you could divert TX into a detector.