00:32 <wpwrak> phew. logitech M560, the mouse from hell.

00:34 <wpwrak> the middle button switch on the scroll wheel of my M215 was dying. so i looked for a new critter. the M560 looked nice. some people claimed that there would be issues with the middle button since the wheel worked in an unusual way, but then yet others said the little button next to it can act as middle button. so all should be well, right ?

00:38 <wpwrak> turns out that logitech implemented some win8-specific mouse-keyboard bastard, with virtually everything hard-wired to hostile functions. of the four more-or-less-crappy solutions/workaround i found on the intertubes, two didn't work, one requires installation of some closed-source tool that does a gazillion of things, maybe including "fixing" the mouse, and the fourth finally worked. needless to say, trying to puzzle it out by lookin

00:38 <wpwrak> g at xev, xbindkeys -k or -mk, et al. was hopeless, too.

01:12 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmm

01:13 <DocScrutinizer05> tried a od -x /dev/* ?

01:13 <DocScrutinizer05> err

01:13 <DocScrutinizer05> od -x /dev/input/<*>

01:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I seen that M560 critter in a blister pack lately and wondered if that "little button next to scrollwheel" wasn't again just a mechanical lever to clutch the pitch snap of the scrollwheel, for "freewheeling" vs "stepping" mode

01:19 <DocScrutinizer05> btw weird scrollwheel middle button function and a little pushbutton switch next to it acting like the genuine middle mouse button is exactly the _default_ config of the MX-revolution aka MX5500

01:20 <wpwrak> naw, the freewheeling is what you get if you press and release the wheel. press and release again and it is stepped again.

01:21 <DocScrutinizer05> also the mentioned "mouse+kbd hybrid" is exactly what MX-Revolution does, I found out by inspecting all devices in /dev/input/ with od. Anyway meanwhile the mapping of scancodes to key events is absolutely fine for the MX

01:21 <wpwrak> the button sends some windows curse, mainly as "keyboard"

01:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, *exactly* what MX-Revo does in _default_ mode. You know, you can config/program the mouse itself

01:22 <wpwrak> for the m560 there are contradictory configurations. and the one you get with the "help" of the program that will then interpret the config is wrong. i'm not sure how they accomplish that :)

01:23 <wpwrak> yes, with a window-only tool (setpoint) or that closed-source monstrosity (hidpoint). apparently, there's no public programming info

01:23 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe you wanna check my revoLUTIONconTROL stuff?

01:24 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mx-revolution/

01:27 <wpwrak> revoco.c looks interesting. thanks !

01:28 <wpwrak> how the heck does one change free-spinning vs. click by software ?

01:28 <wpwrak> pottery ! :)

01:28 <whitequark> so i could make an alumina green body using direct coagulation casting

01:29 <whitequark> take alumina, ammonia polyacrylate, magnesium oxide, mix, then form

01:29 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: revoco -mode ? sth like that

01:29 <whitequark> you don't need a press this way

01:29 <whitequark> it's a sol-gel process. you can even machine the resulting "gel", it's cohesive enough

01:29 <whitequark> then you sinter it as usual

01:30 <whitequark> after that you need a ceramic-metal seal. in the industry they sinter a molybdenum manganese oxide powder over the ceramic in the atmosphere of wet hydrogen

01:30 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/89e62636f4

01:30 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: ^^^

01:30 <whitequark> and i want to get involved with literally no part of that process

01:30 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: no, i mean: that's a mechanical characteristic. how can software alter that ?

01:30 <whitequark> there are nicer things like active brazing alloys

01:31 <DocScrutinizer05> it has a little servo built in

01:31 <whitequark> you have an AgCuTi alloy, where the Ti content apparently makes the solder eat the ceramic (!) thus wetting it

01:31 <whitequark> which actually sounds realistic for a change

01:31 <DocScrutinizer05> the Revolution and MX-5500 had. No other mouse since had

01:31 <wpwrak> hmm yes, this one feels all mechanical

01:31 <whitequark> the annoying part is that they don't sell these alloys so i'll have to manufacture them myself

01:32 <wpwrak> whitequark: be thankful that the underlying physics are in place already :)

01:32 <whitequark> ... you say so, but i keep googling various steps of this and finding papers from like 2013

01:33 <wpwrak> whitequark: that's merely their discovery :)

01:33 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf is a "atmosphere of wet hydrogen" ?

01:34 <whitequark> hydrogen and water mix

01:34 <whitequark> water vapor

01:34 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh

01:34 <whitequark> it's happening at about 1100 degrees, too

01:34 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:

01:34 <whitequark> deeply unpleasant process from every angle

01:35 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: alas, i don't see anything about programming buttons functions in revoco.c

01:36 <wpwrak> everybody just seems to do this with xbindkeys

01:36 <DocScrutinizer05> errm nope, the mouse only delivers keycodes

01:36 <DocScrutinizer05> err scancodes

01:36 <DocScrutinizer05> you however can profram the action of scrollwheel button

01:36 <wpwrak> there's also an obscure udev-based approach but i didn't get that to work

01:36 <DocScrutinizer05> progam

01:37 <DocScrutinizer05> lemme check what I got for my MX

01:38 <DocScrutinizer05> apart from revoco manual=3

01:38 <DocScrutinizer05> err nope

01:39 <DocScrutinizer05> NOT revoco manual, revoco auto!!

01:39 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm using auto=9

01:40 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@saturn:~> revoco mode

01:40 <DocScrutinizer05> note: MX-5500 support is experimental

01:40 <DocScrutinizer05> click-by-click

01:40 <DocScrutinizer05> switching to freewheeling when speed of scrolling exceeds "9" (whatever units that is)

01:42 <DocScrutinizer05> so _all_ buttons deliver some scancode for me, most in dev/input/mouse, some in /dev/input/event1(?)

01:43 <DocScrutinizer05> something is mapping those scancodes to key/mouse events

01:44 <wpwrak> that may be udev. there, i saw rules for mapping scan codes. alas, the stuff that should supposedly work for the M560 doesn't

01:45 <wpwrak> also, the mouse sends a whole string of such nastiness, so that may trip things, too

01:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I just checked my udev stuff and it seems systemd fucked it up

01:46 <wpwrak> from poettering, with love :)

01:46 <DocScrutinizer05> >:-(

01:48 <DocScrutinizer05> recently found: http://compsoc.man.ac.uk/~shep/pedals.html (please read more than headline, it had useful info for me) and http://homepages.cwi.nl/~aeb/linux/kbd/scancodes-8.html#kccb2

01:53 <wpwrak> yes, that's (one of) the system(s) i tried to use. didn't have any effect.

01:53 <wpwrak> anyway, i now have the critter halfway satisfactorily mapped

01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> /usr/lib/udev/hwdb.d/20-usb-vendor-model.hwdb ::

01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> usb:v046DpC51A*

01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE=MX Revolution/G7 Cordless Mouse

01:54 <wpwrak> it goes keystrokes -> xte -> click, so i won't have "middle-click and drag" or such, but maybe that's enough

01:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and

01:55 <DocScrutinizer05> usb:v046DpC525*

01:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE=MX Revolution Cordless Mouse

02:01 <DocScrutinizer05> /usr/lib/udev/rules.d/97-hid2hci.rules

02:02 <DocScrutinizer05> has (excerpt): http://privatepaste.com/20a369d943

02:03 <DocScrutinizer05> don't ask me wtf is hid2hci

02:05 <DocScrutinizer05> need to paste full file, it's too funny http://privatepaste.com/b1544beb09

02:09 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah, /usr/lib/udev/hid2hci: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.32,BuildID[sha1]=11d11fc14fe19a91e80a9141c767d55bf5b319fd, stripped

02:09 <DocScrutinizer05> cool this systemd-udevd

02:11 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/eba65a3fa7 makes sense, this is a BT wireless mouse

02:12 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc who does mapping, and where

02:14 <DocScrutinizer05> btw I prolly couldn't live without MMB-dragging, used to zoom in pdf viewers et al

02:14 <DocScrutinizer05> used to pan in eagle

02:20 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/7b618fc71c xev MMB press + release, if that helps

02:28 <DocScrutinizer05> and od /dev/input/mouse0 yields: 000c08 for MMB-press and 000000 for MMB-release

02:36 <DocScrutinizer05> btw that small button next to scrollwheel is mapped to XF86_SEARCH(?) on my system/mouse

02:39 <DocScrutinizer05> now maybe some savvy people in here can tell me what's the problem when:

02:39 <DocScrutinizer05> neo900:~ # write dos1 pts/0

02:39 <DocScrutinizer05> write: you have write permission turned off

02:39 <DocScrutinizer05> neo900:~ # mesg

02:39 <DocScrutinizer05> is y

02:39 <DocScrutinizer05> (dos1 as well has mesg y))

02:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I've seen suggestions to check /var/log/audit but that's empty

02:42 <DocScrutinizer05> http://serverfault.com/questions/543019/cant-write-to-other-users-you-have-write-permission-turned-off

09:58 <eintopf> back

23:42 <Mike25226> Would this be a suitable place to discuss the creation of a powerful 2.4GHz/5GHz PCB Antenna for wifi?

23:44 <viric> o

23:44 <viric> no

23:57 <Mike25226> Any suggestions of where I might be able to find help with my topic? (If i understand correctly what Copyleft hardware is... my topic would be classified as such)

23:59 <whitequark> PCB antennas are fairly standard

23:59 <whitequark> look for appnotes from wifi chip vendors

23:59 <whitequark> or not even wifi, anything that runs on 2.4