kyak changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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<kyak> wpwrak: i didn't know there exists such thing as WD-80. Is it twice as better as WD-40? It's like improving a blue tape (already perfect)
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<wpwrak> kyak: hmm, seems to be a local thing. it's a wd-40 clone, but with a bit of teflon added. actually, they call it W80, not wd-80.
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<kyak> wpwrak: ah, interesting
<whitequark> wd-40 is kind of crappy actually, even when used for its intended purpose. it is also not a lubricant in the least
<whitequark> the blue tape being good (much perfect) must be sarcasm. or you never used it.
<whitequark> that said. wd-80 with teflon particles actually well *could* be a half-decent lubricant
<whitequark> if you want to see an example of truly good utility tape, try this: https://www.amazon.com/Gardner-HTP-1010-Purpose-Silicone-Self-sealing/dp/B00004WLKT?th=1
<whitequark> self-fusing silicone tape. not just sticks to itself but actually bonds on molecular level, forming a connection as strong or almost as strongas the original material
<whitequark> inert, waterproof, doesn't become brittle, doesn't degrade under UV if black, doesn't turn into goo or leak glue all over your connections, corroding plastics or degrading the contact
<whitequark> stretchy as heck. insulates well. doubles as heatshrink, more or less
<whitequark> oh and doesn't harden when cold or melt when hot, in some ridiculous temperature range (this says -65 to 260, which is a bit hard to believe)
<whitequark> so my advice is to drop the harmful nostalgia and look for what actually works well :p
<whitequark> oh and re: tape, i don't mean that particular brand, it's a completely generic thing. was just first link in amazon search.
<kyak> very well, i'm buying it :)
<kyak> the blue tape - yes, it was a joke. "Everything can be fixed with a blue tape"
<whitequark> well, it's sort of true, isn't it? with the right amount of skill you can go very far with utility tape
<whitequark> the thing is, the blue pvc tape you are talking of is a really, really awful one...
<whitequark> as for wd-40, hmmm, i would replace it with a few different things
<whitequark> you need a cleaner and a lubricant. they do not really mix. lubricant is an easier choice, most things that are fixed by wd-40 should either be re-lubricated with the cheap mineral oil they started with, or cleaned and then lubricated with a thin or thick ptfe-based lubricant. superlube is the american brand
<whitequark> ptfe lubricants aren't cheap if you have a car repair shop, but for a hobbyist they are a perfect choice, really
<whitequark> a cleaner is harder. there is "brake cleaner", which is actually not a single cleaner but a set of completely unrelated solvents in a pressurized can
<whitequark> some of them are basically a "throw everything into the mix, *someone*'s gotta attack that": https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9WNl1NUAAAe4kQ.jpg:large
<whitequark> that shit is always extremely flammable, always a CNS depressant and inhalation hazard, and sometimes strongly carcinogenic
<whitequark> on top of that it tends to attack virtually every polymer, including chemically resistant specialty ones, I think only the PTFE-based ones will withstand it for prolonged periods
<kyak> that's a LOT of information :)
<whitequark> oh and old brake cleaners used to contain chlorinated hydrocarbons, which absolutely *excel* at being solvents, but are potent greenhouse gases *and* decompose to phosgene when welding the surface afterwards
<whitequark> in general, if it has plastic parts, use absolute ethanol or isopropanol, or ether solvents like THF or dimethoxymethane as they are milder
<whitequark> if it's some sort of organic gunk, a mixture of methanol/ethanol and acetone and/or heptane is nice
<whitequark> if it's water-soluble, well, use water
<whitequark> if it has fats on it but not aluminium parts, apply (NaOH) drain cleaner to it
<whitequark> or pure acetone, that also works rather nicely
<whitequark> I *think* if I had to choose only one, it would have been, in order of preference, isopropyl chloride, ethyl benzoate, or a mix of isopropanol with 2-methylpentane or hexane
<whitequark> aggravatingly, it looks like only a mix of isopropanol with hexane is cheap and available enough to use for a hobbyist without a nearby chemical supplier.
* whitequark makes some vague gestures
<whitequark> you might conclude that I had a hard time getting unidentified gunk off expensive shit. you will not be wrong.
<wpwrak> does it move ? if yes, should it ? if yes: no problem. else: use duct tape (US) or wire (AR).
<wpwrak> if it doesn't move, should it move ? if not: no problem. if yes: use hammer to increase degrees of freedom.
<wpwrak> see, no tricky chemistry involved ;-)
<whitequark> wpwrak: that works if your problem is mechanical in nature.
<kyak> a guy walks into an auto shop and asks for WD-40. The salesman responds <insert last 20 minutes from whitequark>. I think it's a good anecdote for some chemistry class :)
<whitequark> but not if you have a problem with leaking or seizing or insufficient insulation...
<wpwrak> whitequark: if your problem is a leaking pipe, a hammer will eventually make that problem go away, too, either by somehow stopping the leak, or by gradually converting the pipe into a non-pipe :)
<whitequark> kyak: a guy walks into an auto shop and asks for WD-40. the car part he applies it to fails. he blames it on some sort of "planned obsolescence" and not the fact that applying wd-40 actually removes lubrication and promotes corrosion
<wpwrak> corrosion: putin did it !
<whitequark> wpwrak: if you take that line of thought to its logical conclusion, then suicide is the answer for all problems. they will certainly stop bothering you, what's not to like?
<kyak> whitequark: i use wd-40 ocasionally to make wipers push better to the window. They tend to rust at joint point..
<wpwrak> whitequark: it's more fun if you take a gradual approach. there are a lot of pipes you can abuse before you have to resort to more drastic measures.
<whitequark> kyak: WD-40 reminds me of antivirus software. widely promoted by "experts" and considered an absolute necessity, but it actually makes you strictly more vulnerable
<whitequark> the main benefit of both is enriching the people who are selling them
<whitequark> oh also, do you know those springy lock nuts? same thing. they make the connection come apart *faster*.
<whitequark> but suggest this to someone, even supplied with empirical data, and they will defend them as if you insulted their religion.
<whitequark> and the "use two nuts immediately adjacent" thing too, though that's just placebo
<kyak> but.. why?
<kyak> i thought lock nuts do work
<whitequark> effective methods are, 1, loctite, 2, nylon inserts, 3, lock nuts from hardened steel that impinge the base metal and the nut
<wpwrak> whitequark: (springy lock) you mean these ? https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_w.html
<whitequark> wpwrak: the "split style" ones
<whitequark> the "star" style ones are slightly less bad though still basically placebo
<whitequark> kyak: well
<whitequark> there are two possibilities
<whitequark> eiher the split lock washer gets completely flattened and plastically deformed (when was the last time you used a torque wrench for it?), and then it just becomes a regular washer
<whitequark> tighten it, then remove the nut, observe
<whitequark> or, the split lock washer actually does not get flattend, and actually does act as a spring, in which case it works as a sort of "ratchet" that, with the aid of vibration, helps unscrew the nut
<whitequark> you can prove it by building a vibrational test stand and then testing the different kinds of connections
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<wpwrak> whitequark: hmm, i though the mode of operation was to press the nut against the thread, to increase friction. e.g., if the things your screw holds together are non-elastic or may even yield, the nut would become unloaded over time. the split washer should prevent that.
<kyak> woof. took a while to find it
<whitequark> wpwrak: well however it is supposed to work, it empirically doesn't
<kyak> i conclude: lock nuts work :)
<whitequark> kyak: lol they should just use an angle grinder
<whitequark> not at the rods, at the plate holding them together
<wpwrak> kyak: they need to go to quite some extremes to keep their vodake from the coworkers ;-)
<whitequark> or even better, switch to drinking isoamyl alcohol
<kyak> i say, they should unbend the rods
<whitequark> not only you don't get a hangover (it's almost completely nontoxic), but you also need just 2-3ml to get drunk
<whitequark> i mean there's a few other ways too, like about 100mg of beta-parachlorophenyl-gammaaminobutyric acid, or about 2g of beta-phenylgammaaminobutyric acid, though that might not impair your cognitive functions quite enough to achieve the desired effect
<whitequark> like honestly, who even drinks *ethanol*, like some sort of goddamn *animal*
<whitequark> next thing you'll tell me you're inhaling *smoke* like the uncivilized rube you are
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<whitequark> or making plant *infusions* containing dozens of potent alkaloids, as if we're in a hunter-gatherer society still
<whitequark> honestly, I would pay someone to remove all ethanol from cider or wine, to make it drinkable
<wpwrak> hmm, i'm beginning to understand why "vodka" means "water". the videos that followed after the cage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY4P_YsSWgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U78-6YCS4LE
<whitequark> that should be classified as attempted suicide.
<wpwrak> the last one looks pretty good. ready to start his shift at the nuclear plant :)
<kyak> wpwrak: just beware of what's youtube will suggest you next! you are about to get dragged into "russian internet" :)
<wpwrak> kyak: naw, it sent me on to a guy shooting things, including wd-40 cans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6VpwcJfamY
<wpwrak> still, kinda boring
<kyak> ok, we are not alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDAAkZD8wms
<kyak> good to know :)
<wpwrak> 1/2 gallon = 1.9 l. not bad.
<kyak> most is wasted
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