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<DocScrutinizer05> HMMMM
<DocScrutinizer05> blobs
<DocScrutinizer05> how about a phone with modern SoC, premium grade build quality, OpenHardware(!!!) *and* attachable hw kbd genuinely made for that purpose?
<DocScrutinizer05> OpenHardware means you got the *hardware* docs, not some "FOSS" code snippets thrown over the wall
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<opbolt> DocScrutinizer05, yep sounds more like it :)
<DocScrutinizer05> then i'm working with the right project right now :-)
<opbolt> neo900 ant it :)
<DocScrutinizer05> looking into Neo900 STEP2
<DocScrutinizer05> ~step2
<opbolt> the qtmoko update... its more than just upzip to sd card isnt it?
<opbolt> ill have a look
<opbolt> re qtmoko update, its use makesd on a new, unused sd card right?
<opbolt> was trying to update my current sd card but dont want to over write other partitions.
<opbolt> i remmber having makesd over write a drive nearly or something... so im err assuming its stupid and not fool proof :)
<opbolt> and use it with caution
<opbolt> ive got a gta04 ya see
<opbolt> oow DocScrutinizer05 i would be interested it hear what you think and feel about librem5 phone?
<DocScrutinizer05> librem5 tries to do the right thing but they don't have their concept/basics sorted. They don't have smart isolation of rogue subsystems and they think throwing FOSS snippets over the wall was the right thing to do
<DocScrutinizer05> and they have no hw kbd ;-D
<DocScrutinizer05> afaik at least
<opbolt> mmh. yea i dont have great faith in them. i fear a typical fancy aluminium smartphone with gnu/linux slapped on top but floss and securety wise, disapoiting insides considering all the money and effort.
<DocScrutinizer05> yes
<DocScrutinizer05> exactly my take on it
<opbolt> they dont design the pcbs, from the looks of it, they pay a company to do it
<DocScrutinizer05> they did for their tablets
<DocScrutinizer05> that's not a big issue in itself. However for the tablets they don't even own permission to disclose the schematics since the copyright is held by the OEM
<opbolt> design company will do what they are most familiar with. which is proprietary, modem is king,
<opbolt> *modem is king and integrated
<DocScrutinizer05> nah, I *think* they try to design this librem5 from scratch inhouse
<opbolt> yea thats sucky
<DocScrutinizer05> but obviously they have no experience in phones, and a weak idea of openness
<opbolt> yea but will they do much different than they normaly do?
<opbolt> Ti soc and?
<DocScrutinizer05> I can't tell, had no more than brief conversations with them
<opbolt> yea
<opbolt> sorry
<DocScrutinizer05> seems they aim at iMX SoC which isn't bad I guess
<opbolt> yea, better than snapdraggon :)
<DocScrutinizer05> hehe yes
<opbolt> DocScrutinizer05, you know pyra right? the mobile, version. the extra sensors, would it be possible to have them without the mobile modem?
<DocScrutinizer05> sure I know Pyra, Nikolaus "shared" between Neo900 and Pyra and I even reviewd the schematics
<opbolt> does any map nav apps, like navit make use of hardware compass? i dont know of any
<opbolt> heh
<DocScrutinizer05> you can shut down the modem in pyra
<opbolt> or arr the sensors all on same pcb?
<opbolt> oh ok
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<opbolt> arr=all
<DocScrutinizer05> Pyra is pretty sane concept
<DocScrutinizer05> for a ganing console ;-P
<opbolt> yea, im thinking of getting one. i just wish gps was separated from modem :(
<DocScrutinizer05> it still doesn't emply Neo900's unique sandboxing
<opbolt> yea.
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<opbolt> yummy neo900
<DocScrutinizer05> I don't know if Nikolaus added a separate GPS chip, he planned to
<opbolt> oh, i tought they where using gps feature of modem?
<DocScrutinizer05> prolly they do, yes
<opbolt> that would be nice if it was isolated
<opbolt> i guess they get agps by using the gps built into the modem?
<DocScrutinizer05> the P*S8 modem knows a mode where GPS enabled but modem radio inactive. However Pyra can't guarantee the modem obeys such mode, Neo900 can
<opbolt> yea, what i was expecting
<opbolt> assisted-gps
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, AGPS is a benefit from GPS-modem integration
<opbolt> arr
<opbolt> darn
<opbolt> nice to have yet also a snag....
<opbolt> aww
<DocScrutinizer05> you *can* provide the assistance data externally to the modem
<opbolt> ow
<opbolt> how
<DocScrutinizer05> see TRM
<DocScrutinizer05> not sure, I think there's an AT command
<opbolt> oh so still using modem?
<DocScrutinizer05> the format of that data however is proprietary
<opbolt> i cant have a-gps with my bluetooth gps for example?
<opbolt> well i guess apgs means a modem powered up.. cant have everything
<DocScrutinizer05> no, you switch off "the modem" (GSM) and download the assistance data e.g. via WLAN and send it to the modem like "ATgpsdata "9F33A14E6A..."
<opbolt> oh but dont it need to monitor mobile err anterents around the area in order to work?
<DocScrutinizer05> only the AT interpreter and the GPS functions active in modem
<DocScrutinizer05> that's another form of "assisted"
<opbolt> oh right
<opbolt> i wonder how that works
<opbolt> inside it
<DocScrutinizer05> ~u-tdoa
<infobot> it has been said that u-tdoa is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-TDOA
<DocScrutinizer05> ~gsm-agps
<infobot> RRLP is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://osmocom.org/projects/security/wiki/RRLP
<DocScrutinizer05> U-TDOA is faster and more accurate than any GPS now, and works indoors
<DocScrutinizer05> but need WWAN aka "GSM"
<opbolt> more than 50M?
<opbolt> accurate
<DocScrutinizer05> typically better than 10m
<DocScrutinizer05> depending on RF-path between mobile and BTS
<opbolt> oww so wikipeada is out of date then
<DocScrutinizer05> note how U-TDOA can locate *any* mobile (actually any transmitter, depending on the LMUs)
<opbolt> yea
<opbolt> expains why gps only in citys as been a struggle
<opbolt> hehe
<opbolt> compared to typical agps smartphone
<opbolt> didnt know they get 10m accuracy just from mobile
<DocScrutinizer05> basically the accuracy is just limited by timing in the LMUs and varaibles in the air RF path
<DocScrutinizer05> they just don't need more than 10m precision
<DocScrutinizer05> and I don't even know if they provide the results of U-TDOA to the mobile equipment with that accuracy
<opbolt> somehow i can imagine the powers that be saying they need more than 10m precision for there mass surveillance wants. 10m is like gps
<opbolt> you would not happen to know what the most floss statnav is ?
<opbolt> my sister wants a satnav
<DocScrutinizer05> in an acient post by me you can see how I evaluated a sort of U-TDOA based on GSM TimeAdvance parameter, which is ~550m precision and predates the official U-TDOA implementation
<opbolt> on neo900 forum?
<opbolt> tomtom are anti OSM :(
<DocScrutinizer05> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html sorry takes ages to load, the server is messed up
<opbolt> ok
<opbolt> thanks
<DocScrutinizer05> Load average: 23.95 22.82 26.27 - it's dead Jim!
<DocScrutinizer05> even frozen now completely
<DocScrutinizer05> I hope the sysop will fix it soon
<opbolt> know anything about gta04 batts?
<DocScrutinizer05> you might find a copy in wayback archive
<opbolt> arr yea, thats an idea
<DocScrutinizer05> umm, aren't they the GTA02 smarrtbat still?
<opbolt> yes
<DocScrutinizer05> bq27200
<DocScrutinizer05> ~batteryfaq
<infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers
<DocScrutinizer05> also dead server
<opbolt> i reused bms from old gta batt to a 18650 cell :) but it didnit work :(. any ideas? gta i dont think was powered from it
<DocScrutinizer05> please rephrase
<DocScrutinizer05> see bq27200 datasheet
<opbolt> dead gta04 batt with bq27200 BMS board. i remove BMS board and ....
<opbolt> ok yea, datasheet of course
<DocScrutinizer05> sorry for the dead server
<DocScrutinizer05> I got a complete docs for the GTA02 smartbat in my homedir on openmoko
<DocScrutinizer05> it consists of the bq27200 plus a protection circuit
<DocScrutinizer05> you could replace the cell by a e.g 18650 but the bq27200 will probably not cover the capacity, register range too small
<DocScrutinizer05> not sure though
<DocScrutinizer05> you could change the value of the shunt resistor
<DocScrutinizer05> it's 20mR now, I think
<DocScrutinizer05> could change that to e.g. 2mR or whatever
<DocScrutinizer05> ~bq27k
<DocScrutinizer05> ~bq27k-detail
<DocScrutinizer05> ~bq27
<DocScrutinizer05> this server works :-)
<opbolt> thanks
<DocScrutinizer05> you see how all register values (except voltages) are based on RS (shunt resistor)
<kyak> DocScrutinizer05: the latest news on Neo900 are really promising! It's great that you will have now more time to spend on the project
<DocScrutinizer05> the actual news are not even out yet :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> but I think STEP2 is the way to go
<DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 (step1) got somewhat dated and obsolete over time
<DocScrutinizer05> though there are not many news publsuhed, i'm *very* busy behind the scenes
<DocScrutinizer05> published even
<DocScrutinizer05> go figure
<DocScrutinizer05> :-D
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe openmoko was just a 10 years ahead of its time ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> the idea of open hardware still going strong
<DocScrutinizer05> kyak: any comments on RISC-V / lowrisc for phone SoCs?
<DocScrutinizer05> obvious "problem": it's not ARM, so hardly any existing app will work without either an emulator or a recompile.
<DocScrutinizer05> then, they have no decent GPU yet aiui
<opbolt> openmoko was before iphone?
<opbolt> i think
<opbolt> :/
<opbolt> re bq27200 with 18650 li-ion cell. how does changing the shunt/current sense resistor make the ic able to accepct a larger capacity li-ion cell?
<kyak> DocScrutinizer05: that, and also the linux kernel support is quite new (i think it has recently landed and now get polished): https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=RISC-V-Early-2018
<DocScrutinizer05> kyak: tbh I don't even know if they got ANY real silicon out already
<DocScrutinizer05> all I see are emulations in FPGAs
<DocScrutinizer05> opbolt: all registers are "coun't * CONSTANT" where constant is "Divide by Rs in milliohms to convert µV to mA or µVh to mAh"
<kyak> "There is now a RISC-V public development board in form of the HiFive Unleashed, a 4+1 multi-core dev board using the SiFive FU540 SoC. This board has 8GB of DDR4 memory, Gigabit Ethernet, 32MB SPI flash, and microSD card. But before getting too excited, this first RISC-V development board will set you back $999 USD."
<DocScrutinizer05> kyak: great, many thanks
<DocScrutinizer05> kyak: link?
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh prolly the one you gave, eh?
<kyak> right :)
<DocScrutinizer05> do they care about idle/zeroclock?
<DocScrutinizer05> I see highperf but no lowpower
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<opbolt> exciting India risci cpu + in a card: http://libre-riscv.org/shakti/m_class/
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