samth changed the topic of #racket to: Racket v7.7 has been released: https://blog.racket-lang.org/2020/05/racket-v7-7.html -- Racket -- https://racket-lang.org -- https://pkgs.racket-lang.org -- Paste at http://pasterack.org
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<Boarders> does anyone know in drracket with the emacs keybindings enabled everywhere what the shortcut is for run?
<selimcan> Boarders, hang on
<selimcan> Boarders, well, you can click on Edit > Keybindings > Show active keybindings
<selimcan> and then search for "run" ^^
<Boarders> oh ok thanks
<Boarders> I tend to use racket-mode but wanted to look at some of the debugging info drracket has but I am not very adept with it
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<wild_buffalo> Hi, I'm looking for some Racket code to read to help me learn some idioms and techniques
<wild_buffalo> I figured I should start with some of the base libraries
<wild_buffalo> Where's their source located? /usr/local/share/racket/pkgs/base just has a info.rkt file
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<zig> Regarding racket-cs, does it compile racket modules into Chez `module` form or something else?
<zig> (hello)
<zig> or it has its own expander
<winny> wild_buffalo— you might find this interesting: (find-system-path 'collects-dir)
<wild_buffalo> winny, thanks I'll check it out
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<vejetaryenvampir> Racket is my first Lisp language. What I want to ask is that is there a significant performance difference between using `let` or `let*`? Because `let*` seems more convenient to me.
<bremner> I doubt it's a big performance impact
<vejetaryenvampir> Is there any historical reason for that Racket (or any Lisp, I'm not sure) has two different functions for that?
<bremner> historical reasons sure. Let is the building block for let* if you start from the ground up
<bremner> let and lambda are almost the same thing if you write an interpreter.
<vejetaryenvampir> Hmm, makes sense.
<vejetaryenvampir> It will be like `(let ([rp (colorize p "red" )] (let ([bp (colorize p "black")]) (let ([c (checker rp bp)]) (let ([c4 (four c)]) (four c4)))))`, correct?
<vejetaryenvampir> Like the `let*` functino.
<vejetaryenvampir> function*
<bremner> vejetaryenvampir: it's hard to read inline, maybe try pasterack.org
<vejetaryenvampir> Sure thing.
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<vejetaryenvampir> I guess it requires captcha?
<vejetaryenvampir> sad
<bremner> oh well, whatever pastebin works for you. paste.debian.net e.g.
<vejetaryenvampir> bremner: https://paste.debian.net/1157277/
<bremner> looks right. let* is just a quick way to write nested lets
<vejetaryenvampir> So `let*` evulates to something like that, right?
<bremner> vejetaryenvampir: note that many racket experts would use inner defines here
<vejetaryenvampir> Why is that?
<bremner> less indentation. Better support for recursion.
<bremner> personally I like let* because the scope is clear. It's pretty subjective.
<vejetaryenvampir> I guess I'll learn these over time.
<bremner> sure.
<bremner> there is often a bit of tension between "what idiom is clearest to scheme programmers in general", and "what idiom is nicest in racket". For loops are an example.
<vejetaryenvampir> Is Racket suitable for system programs?
<vejetaryenvampir> Let's say something like a JSON parser for shell?
<bremner> I wouldn't call that a systems program, so glad you clarified ;)
<bremner> sure, transforming text is a good application of racket
<bremner> the only weakness I can think about is startup time. So many racket programs in a pipeline might be annoying.
<vejetaryenvampir> I see. It will be a great example to do. :D
<vejetaryenvampir> Why is that?
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<bremner> which "that" are you asking about?
<vejetaryenvampir> "the only weakness I can think about is startup time. So many racket programs in a pipeline might be annoying."
<bremner> just that "hello world" in racket is slower than e.g. python, at least last time I checked.
<vejetaryenvampir> I need to consider that.
<vejetaryenvampir> Because these things should be efficient.
<bremner> well, it depends a lot what you benchmark. racket is often much faster than python on less trivial examples
<vejetaryenvampir> I mostly write CLI and TUI programs.
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<samth> zig: racket modules are compiled to chez lambda; racket has its own expander. you can read more about the whole process here: https://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/icfp19-fddkmstz.pdf
<bremner> vejetaryenvampir: I suggest measuring before drawing any conclusions about performance.
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<samth> vejetaryenvampir: racket also has a nice json library built in
<vejetaryenvampir> I know. ^^
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<yurb> (Um, how I wish pasterack didn't have the toxic Google captcha).
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<yurb> That apart, I have a nitpicky question about indentation. Both DrRacket and racket-mode indent this example as shown: http://pasterack.org/pastes/52816
<yurb> I'm curious why is that. My intuition would be http://pasterack.org/pastes/22968 (see the last line)
<yurb> If I hit Return after `git-annex` though, the indent goes straight below; if the line breaks after more atoms though, it indents the next line after `git-annex`.
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<zig> samth: thanks a lot :)
<samth> yurb: it got a lot of spam before that
<samth> yurb: the latter is clearly better but is hard to achieve with indenting rules
<samth> you need more context than most indenting systems provide
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<yurb> samth: my naive guess would a rule along the lines of "if it's quoted, it's data and should not increase indent", but maybe that is too naive
<samth> The problem is that "if it's quoted" is a more sophisticated rule -- usually it just looks at the first thing after `(`
<yurb> looking before the `(` is problematic?
<samth> it's not that it's problematic, it's just that most indentation code doesn't do it
<yurb> interesting to know
<yurb> thanks
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<yurb> (re google captcha: sure spam sucks, but maybe other solutions are worth trying - of course I'm complaining about a free service, but anyway. I've been doing simple honeypot fields for instance - on a much less popular websites though).
<yurb> My example also hits an error on pasterack if I don't enable "Submit as text only" - http://pasterack.org/pastes/25658
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<dzoe> samth: do you have any plans for disassemble to support following calls? (By following the target address)
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<dzoe> I am knee-deep in the flonums unboxing and register allocations and my plan to send a patch that "solves it all" has backfired terribly.
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<dzoe> Because according to all my tests, CS can be way faster than BC in my workload. However, once the loops start allocating new boxes for flonums, everything just breaks down.
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<samth> dzoe: I don't have any immediate plans to do anything
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