apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
<matti> And plenty of Linux VMs.
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<matti> I actually dislike OS X a lo.
<matti> lot*
<matti> ;d
<matti> OK, nap time.
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<matti> sdegutis: See you later ;]
<sdegutis> k bye
<sdegutis> sorry for the delay
<sdegutis> got distractd
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<sdegutis> if you were going to wrap a really simple ObjC class (without using RubyCocoa or MacRuby, but just the normal ruby.h stuff) would you use Data_Make_Struct ?
<sdegutis> hold on, thats a terribly stupid question
<sdegutis> i think i can do better
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<sdegutis> yep, that was it.
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<imperator> anyone awake?
<apeiros> depends on your thresholds for "awake"
<erikh> kind of
<apeiros> schrödinger awakeness - it depends on whether the boss observes you…
<erikh> ha
<erikh> slept all day today
<apeiros> I wish I could
<erikh> just napping here and there
<erikh> oh, almost 11pm here.
<erikh> sunday still.
<apeiros> saturday to sunday we had 27°C in the bedroom :(
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<imperator> i thought it was a good thing when it got hot in the bedroom :-P
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<apeiros> wrong kind of heat
<imperator> oh, right, right
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<judofyr> hey folks
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<joonty> hey
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<erikh> hi
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<judofyr> what's up?
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<erikh> just got my provisioning system's dsl up and going
<erikh> provisions 6 virtualbox machines with full dependency resolution in the test
<bougyman> not using chef/puppet?
<erikh> it's dependency oriented so you can provision a chef server, then build out numerous chef clients off that
<bougyman> or just cookbooks for them?
<bougyman> gotcha.
<erikh> machines, not systems management
<bougyman> using vagrant at all?
<erikh> nope. this replaces it.
<erikh> it's also embeddable.
<bougyman> sweet.
<bougyman> I dropped vagrant and just went with libvirt.
<bougyman> so much cleaner.
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<erikh> this is more than VMs but that's a ways off a bit
<bougyman> can it do kvm, too?
<erikh> not yet -- it supports vbox and aws right now
<erikh> the framework is all there though
<bougyman> we talked about this. sounds like waiter.
<erikh> just time management and all that
<erikh> probably -- it's based on the chef-workflow stuff I did last fall.
<bougyman> we support rackspace, ibm smartcloud, vagrant, and aws, atm.
<bougyman> still waiting on the approval to opensource waiter.
<erikh> my next target is lxc, but I want to do kvm at least too
<bougyman> I think the problem is the tribal knowledge baked in to waiter still.
<bougyman> we're removing that gradually.
<erikh> yeah, this is a self-documenting system of sorts.
<erikh> trying to avoid that, but the scheduler is still deep voodoo
<bougyman> Sonian doesn't mind open sourcing, but they're protective of some things.
<erikh> but the whole thing is designed to be embeddable.
<bougyman> very nice.
<erikh> e.g., in test-kitchen or something similar.
<bougyman> yeah, that would be hot.
<bougyman> we've been working a berks + test-kitchen test system recently.
<erikh> did you guys ever peek at chef-workflow?
<bougyman> test-kitchen did not seem worthwhile to me.
<bougyman> no, looking now, though.
<erikh> it's dated
<erikh> I've been sidetracked with this thing for about 9 months
<erikh> but the work here comes from that.
<bougyman> Cool, i'll show to the gang.
<erikh> and it's mostly hobby time, so, there's that.
<bougyman> We're always willing to drop our shit and jump on a better project.
<erikh> well, I wouldn't go that far. heh
<bougyman> We just hired a new dude, too.
<erikh> still a lot to do
<bougyman> So we have a full team, and nothing to do.
<bougyman> I've automated all the deployments.
<erikh> nice.
<bougyman> We literally have 6 people just hacking on new shit, throwing it against the wall, seeing what sticks.
<erikh> well, if you guys have questions, email is erik@hollensbe.org
<bougyman> Separating our cookbooks is proving to be a real bitch.
<erikh> happy to bend to requests or simply facilitate, and it's all MIT so take anything that looks interesting
<bougyman> they are so interdependent.
<erikh> oh. yeah.
<erikh> that's why I'm not big on the app cookbook pattern
<erikh> but neither is a lot of opscode.
<bougyman> But what other is there?
<erikh> roles.
<yorickpeterse> GOOD GUY LINUS GIVES LINUX UPDATES, REMOVES PROPER CPU GOVERNORS
<bougyman> opscode has been horrible, too.
<yorickpeterse> Also good morning
<bougyman> Yes, we do lots of role-based stuff.
<bougyman> but opscode recommends against that, so we get friction.
<erikh> it's an internal debate there as I understand it
<bougyman> they don't even throw the roles into /var/chef/cache after a run.
<bougyman> so debugging is complete ass.
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<erikh> reset started the whole silly app cookbook thing and it's worse than "constraints aren't necessary" in rails cargo-cult-status wise
<bougyman> and shef -z (or whatever the new way to do that is) never loads role attribs.
<erikh> oh, I never actually use shfef
<bougyman> chef reminds me a lot of the shit I hate in rails, indeed.
<bougyman> big monstrousity.
<erikh> chef-workflow does a bit of that stuff for you though, in a repeatable way
<bougyman> but damn, it gets the job done, once you bend it to your will.
<erikh> easy to do repeat client runs, etc.
<erikh> all with rake
<bougyman> I used to be able to spy on a recipe as it ran.
<gnufied> bougyman: comeon don't go bougey on rails. rails is lovely. Just ask Yorick
<bougyman> that's not possible anymore.
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<bougyman> gnufied: rails is the only thing I hate about ruby.
<bougyman> don't get me started.
<erikh> heh
<gnufied> bougyman: it wouldn't hurt if you can jot down your points and write a good piece and throw it somewhere
<yorickpeterse> gnufied: I hate you
<bougyman> The railsconf where DHH announced: "Everything is a resource" is where rails broke my heart.
<bougyman> gnufied: it's all been said before.
<bougyman> If I have nothing good to say, I usually say nothing.
<erikh> heh, as previously mentioned I've always chuckled a little bit back in the day when database constraints were totally uncool
<bougyman> I just happen to be amazingly stressed right now, so lashing out.
<bougyman> I'll stop.
<bougyman> My fiancee is at the embassy doing a Visa interview.
<erikh> now nobody in the rails universe would go without them
<bougyman> awaiting the result.
<erikh> oof.
<erikh> US?
<gnufied> right. hmm, am I in minority when I think - Treating models as resources and mapping them to end points was a good thing?
<bougyman> I'm in US, she's at the US embassy in Kiev.
<erikh> best of luck -- had a friend do that last year for his girl from the UK
<erikh> was not a fun experience as I was told
<bougyman> No, it's been total pain.
<gnufied> I don't even know what one means by "everything is a resource"
<bougyman> this is the final step. they either keep her passport, which means she gets a visa, or they give it back, which means totalfail.
<erikh> bougyman: you were a part of the whole #rubyists thing IIRC right?
<bougyman> should know in the next 30 minutes.
<bougyman> erikh: of course.
<erikh> you ever talk to manveru anymore? never see him around these days.
<bougyman> both #caboose and #rubyists.
<bougyman> Yeah, he's busy with a kickass job.
<erikh> that's awesome
<bougyman> I still work with him when he has time.
<bougyman> My time is split between Sonian and a lil business I started here.
<erikh> cool
<bougyman> and traveling to see the fiancee.
<gnufied> erikh: I agree with you there of course. using DB as just a hash table was one of the worse ideas.
<bougyman> just got back from spain.
<bougyman> AR still doesn't do justice to real database work.
<bougyman> arel is a step forward, but who really uses it?
<gnufied> agreed.
<erikh> gnufied: rails and the community is frequently learning things previous communities already learned and know
<bougyman> I've been on sequel for years, no reason to move, for me.
<erikh> I know people who use arel right
<bougyman> I don't discount there are some.
<erikh> and when it's done well, it's good.
<bougyman> But the majority of rails users? Probably not.
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<erikh> actually quite a bit of the reason I dropped rdbi. arel is just a better situation really
<bougyman> sequel is very great for postgres support.
<bougyman> arel hasn't matched it there, yet.
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<erikh> I've always had quoting issues with sequel
<bougyman> oh really?
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<erikh> trying to embed functions, etc.
<bougyman> never ran into that.
<erikh> yeah, it's been a while though. off in automation-land.
<bougyman> ah... I use E' all the time for that.
<bougyman> but that's postgres specific.
<erikh> E'' is for strings, but I mean getting sequel to not quote max(id) for example
<gnufied> *has not used sequel much*
<erikh> e.g., "max(id)" which postgres just chokes on
<bougyman> function(:max(:id)), no? It's late but I know there's a symbolic way to accomplish.
<erikh> ah, ok
<erikh> I think I was doing it with strings.
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<erikh> hit that wall the last time I used it and never looked back.
<erikh> anyhow, hit a virtualbox bug and now my computer is really mad at me, and I think it's time for a walk
<erikh> ttfn
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<yorickpeterse> postmodern: ping
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, yo
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<yorickpeterse> postmodern: `chruby-exec` doesn't appear to be working inside cronjobs, it's gives a "no tty [something] no job control" error
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<Newbie0086> can some one help me to finish the problem
<erikh> Newbie0086: you're aware this is a ruby channel, and not a python one right?
<Newbie0086> - -
<Newbie0086> sorry
<erikh> heh, np
<Newbie0086> really bad can u help me about the python question
<Newbie0086> just recommend
<erikh> sorry, my command of python is pretty bad
<Newbie0086> - -
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<Newbie0086> ok
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<yorickpeterse> I wonder how he/she ender up here
<erikh> google "web scrape code", paste it into a gist
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<erikh> ask in a random programming channel
<erikh> either that or they got booted from #python already
<erikh> they're less tolerant of rabble than we are.
<yorickpeterse> heh
<erikh> a lot of the reason I got started on ruby was because of cool folks that were around back in the day
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<erikh> willing to not yell at you for asking nicely and making dumb mistakes
<yorickpeterse> unrelated, does anybody here have a macbook that can tell me the average temp of their CPUs?
<erikh> mbp retina work?
<erikh> lemme check
<yorickpeterse> Any one is fine
<yorickpeterse> this one sits around 65C on Linux and I wonder if that's ok
<erikh> yeah, lemme just figure out how to get it, heh
<erikh> I can also check on my thinkpad if you want a closer comparison
<yorickpeterse> No that's fine, I have a thinkpad myself and it's basically a freezer
<erikh> :)
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, this is probably due to chruby-exec spawing an interactive shell
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<ddfreyne> MISTER FREEZE.
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, i should experiment with using $-
<yorickpeterse> postmodern: yeah I figured something like that. Right now I'm running bash -c 'source ...; etc' but meh
<yorickpeterse> My Thinkpad is next to impossible to get above 50C (unless I start Flash 10x), my macbook is basically at 60-65 standard
<yorickpeterse> and I have to control it manually because Linuxs is apparently too stupid to do that properly for me
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, ah yes, always better to explicitly select your shell, ubuntu points /bin/sh to /bin/dash
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<yorickpeterse> postmodern: true, though I at least don't have that problem on Debian
<erikh> yorickpeterse: cores are 50-60
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<erikh> lid's closed, though. might be different if it wasn't docked atm
<yorickpeterse> hmm, thanks
<yorickpeterse> so at least it's not that much different
<yorickpeterse> The overall temp is fine, it's just that the CPU temps look so out of place
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, yeah debian still uses bash for /bin/sh
<postmodern> yorickpeterse, ubuntu is the odd one out
<erikh> 2.4Ghz i7 / 4 core, fwiw.
<erikh> 4 phys cores
<yorickpeterse> same here
<erikh> and yeah, overall temp is ~35C
<yorickpeterse> though it's an i5 I believe
<erikh> on my desktop the numbers aren't much different, although it peaks at 70 or 80 when I'm gaming
<erikh> I've dialed that back with a liquid cooler
<erikh> but it's been hot here. anyhow, hth.
<erikh> postmodern: you're aware linux and os x are the only systems that use bash as /bin/sh I hope?
<postmodern> erikh, you mean Windows doesn't? :P
<erikh> most are a ksh derivative
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<erikh> which is what dash is -- "posix" shell
<postmodern> erikh, yep bsd/solaris prefers tcsh or csh
<erikh> no, /bin/sh is posix shell on those systems
<erikh> more similar to dash than bash.
<erikh> solaris and freebsd have their own quirks, but if you coded for dash you'd be pretty portable
<andrewvos> A stupid gem I wrote for some job interview is getting pull requests https://github.com/AndrewVos/roman-numerals/pull/3
<andrewvos> Facepalm
<erikh> love chruby, btw. not sure if I've had the chance to mention that.
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<postmodern> erikh, thank you
<postmodern> erikh, you wouldn't happen to know of a bash/zsh style guidelines?
<erikh> not afaik. I have my own things but I suspect most people do
<erikh> wayne's got pretty solid shell, you might want to ask him if you can find him.
<postmodern> erikh, i need to review zendeavors massive style patch, some of it makes sense, others seem superficial
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<erikh> yeah, honestly, the guy that instantly comes to mind is wayne seguin
<erikh> I never found chruby's style to be particularly atrocious though
<judofyr> postmodern: woah, zendeavor's PR looks great
<postmodern> for being so opinionated, im surprised the people in #bash don't have a style guide
<erikh> heh.
<andrewvos> There's ways to make bash not ugle?
<andrewvos> ugly*
<yorickpeterse> andrewvos: yes, here's a one-liner for it:
<andrewvos> le ugle
<yorickpeterse> ruby -e '...'
<erikh> actually
<erikh> so, a lot of this I do too
<erikh> from his list, at least. I avoid [[ ]] because it's less portable
<andrewvos> yorickpeterse: Totally. #!/usr/bin/env ruby ftw
<judofyr> postmodern: do you know why he prefers printf over echo?
<postmodern> judofyr, i have no clue, he's not even using printf
<postmodern> judofyr, printf "%s\n", "string here"
<erikh> my guess is because builtin echo doesn't have -e
<postmodern> judofyr, makes no sense to me
<erikh> so, no \n
<erikh> or \e or etc etc
<postmodern> but chruby doesn't use \e
<erikh> any escapes
<erikh> \r, etc.
<postmodern> everything is a plain string
<erikh> then, yeah, it's arbitrary
<postmodern> besides i thought the proper way to use printf was "foo %s bar %s baz\n"
<erikh> you want /usr/bin/echo if you want escaping stuff.
<postmodern> also [[ is portable among bash/zsh
<erikh> yeah, it's portable between them
<erikh> just not outside of it
<postmodern> you have to use [ for posix compliance
<erikh> right
<erikh> my gut says to make him split this up along the bullet points
<erikh> into separate, independent requests
<erikh> but that's my inner "don't break the build" kneejerk reaction
<postmodern> yeah, also i don't feel good about merging commits that he later undid
<postmodern> seems to be some code thrashing
<erikh> yeah, that's a smell
<erikh> maybe just have him pick them into smaller requests
<postmodern> i think i'll recommend redoing them using `git sed`
* erikh mans
<erikh> oh is that an extension?
<postmodern> thor's hammer :)
<erikh> oh my
* erikh runs in fear
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<bougyman> erikh: still 'round?
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<erikh> kind of
<erikh> what's up?
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<erikh> need to bail in 45 to get ready for work.
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<Dernise> I have a problem. I tried to do a gsub of a string and I have this error : `gsub': invalid byte sequence in US-ASCII (ArgumentError), how can I fix this ?
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<apeiros> Dernise: specify the encoding
<apeiros> see String#force_encoding, #encode, also: Encoding.default_external and .default_internal
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<Dernise> Apeiros: I tried this : stderr.readlines.each do |e| error = e.encode('UTF-8').gsub("\n", '') ? end
<Dernise> didn't work :(
<apeiros> a) "didn't work" is as useless as humanly possible as a problem description
<Dernise> Well, yes, the error is still the same
<apeiros> b) might just have solved itself - stderr is the stderr of an external process, not your process' stderr?
<apeiros> I doubt that the error is the same
<Dernise> Here is where stderr comes from : Open3.popen3("apt-get -y #{command} #{arguments}") {|stdin, stdout, stderr, wait_thr|
<Dernise> Well wait, i'll check if the error is still the same
<apeiros> I'd assume the error now mentions 'encode' instead of 'gsub'
<apeiros> because encode translates characters. but if your source is US-ASCII, then there are no characters beyond 0x7f
<apeiros> hence any byte between 0x80 and 0xff can't be reencoded as utf-8
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<apeiros> if stderr is supposed to output utf-8, then you should open it with that encoding directly.
<yorickpeterse> Hm interesting, Opal appears to have its own Lexer/Grammar for Ruby
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<dbussink> judofyr: have you seen this issue lately? https://github.com/rubinius/rubinius/issues/2329
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<dbussink> judofyr: just checked a bunch of travis logged, didn't seem to happen anymore
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<dbussink> whitequark: wondering, still seeing this? https://github.com/rubinius/rubinius/issues/2442
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<dbussink> whitequark: don't see that in the travis logs anymore and could neither repro
<dbussink> whitequark: or did you manually restart builds?
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<judofyr> dbussink: nope
<dbussink> judofyr: ok if i close it then?
<judofyr> dbussink: sure
<dbussink> judofyr: or you can of course
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<judofyr> dbussink: you can do it
<judofyr> dbussink: I'm eating ice cream now
<dbussink> judofyr: hehe, already did, have fun eating ice cream!
<dbussink> should be no problem i assume ;)
<judofyr> :)
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<yorickpeterse> Once upon a time I thought I'd be clever with this JS code
<yorickpeterse> Then I forgot to actually use half of it
<yorickpeterse> now I have a lot of problems
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<ddfreyne> I'm writing node.js code!
<judofyr> ddfreyne: what'd you think?
<yorickpeterse> ddfreyne: do you hate yourself?
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<ddfreyne> I'm actually using it for a simple script that tests some Clojure code that replaces Ruby code
* ddfreyne likes to play around with languages
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: is the code as clever as this? https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/upaws.js/blob/Master/%C2%B5paws.js
<ddfreyne> It's not bad, I think
<ddfreyne> I'm favouring statically-typed languages more and more these days, though.
<yorickpeterse> I looked at Typescript
<yorickpeterse> Then I noticed the non aligned buttons
<yorickpeterse> I shook in fear
<yorickpeterse> (yes I have OCD)
<judofyr> ddfreyne: what statically-typed languages have you been playing with lately?
<yorickpeterse> judofyr: what the fuck is this
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<yorickpeterse> and who is this elliot guy, I keep seeing his name popup
<yorickpeterse> whitequark even has his bot log an IRC channel named after the dude
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: yeah, he's pretty good at starting IRC channels
<judofyr> (#Paws -> #elliottcable -> ##Hat -> #elliottcable)
<yorickpeterse> BUT WHO IS HE
<judofyr> he's elliott
<judofyr> did some Ruby before
<judofyr> mostly JS and C now I think
<yorickpeterse> No shit. I mean as in, what does he do that he looks like has DHH-fame but actually uses IRC
<yorickpeterse> ah
<yorickpeterse> also my engrish
<judofyr> not sure if he's written something that famous
<judofyr> he just manages to gather cool people in his IRC channels
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<judofyr> also: Paws. he started working on an async programming language some years ago.
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<yorickpeterse> I need to write a language, with hookers and blackjack!
<yorickpeterse> or w/e the thing was
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<ddfreyne> judofyr: Not enough. I think I'd like to play around with Go and Rust though. For production code, I'll most likely go with Go (yay pun) because Rust is not stable at all yet.
<yorickpeterse> Is it....*puts on sunglasses* Rusty?
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<yorickpeterse> Seems I made this channel... *puts on sunglasses again* Go silent
<yorickpeterse> I'll show myself out
<judofyr> …
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<ericwood> Go has sane syntax
<ericwood> Rust seemed overly confusing for no reason
<ericwood> Go is really really cool, though, if I were doing lower-level programming for anything I'd use it in a heartbeat
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<ddfreyne> ericwood: I don't even think it's that low-level at all
<erikh> nope
<erikh> NOPE
<erikh> nope.jpg
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<ericwood> ddfreyne: Go is a systems programming language; it's intended for low-level programming, among other things
<ericwood> you can do a lot with it
<erikh> it's not low level.
<erikh> you're making me feel old.
<ddfreyne> ericwood: It is garbage-collected and has polymorphism. That makes it at least as high-level as, say, Java
<ericwood> yeah yeah I get it, you have a more literal definition of low-level
<ddfreyne> ericwood: low-level is C or lower for me
<ericwood> you can use Go for nearly everything you'd use C for
<ericwood> just because it has nice language features doesn't mean it isn't suitable for low-level programming
<erikh> write device drivers in go
<ericwood> no u
<ericwood> anyways no more of this I don't feel like bikeshedding this early >.<
<erikh> write mmap in go
<ddfreyne> write malloc in go
<ericwood> ugh go away
<ericwood> fine I'm wrong
<ericwood> you are all right
<sdegutis> [crosspost] Is there a less convoluted way to get a C-str from a Symbol than rb_id2name(SYM2ID(obj)) ?
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* ddfreyne high fives erikh
<erikh> heh
<erikh> ^5
<erikh> sdegutis: can't think of one
<sdegutis> k
<sdegutis> thanks
<erikh> sorry :(
<sdegutis> no prob
<erikh> README.EXT might have more
<sdegutis> checked, thats all i could find
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<sdegutis> you guys know an example somewhere how to enumerate key/value pairs of RHash?
<erikh> I think I have one I wrote
<erikh> one minute
<sdegutis> :)
<erikh> ugh, sorry, no. it fills hashes, but doesn't read htem
<erikh> should have finished that thing
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<erikh> well, should have added more to it that is
<sdegutis> :)
<erikh> sqlite or nokogiri probably have a few examples
<erikh> (likely good ones, too)
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<sdegutis> i guess i only need three functions, one to get the number of keys, one to get a c-array of keys, and one to lookup value by key
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<sdegutis> i think rb_hash_lookup is the third
<sdegutis> ok ill look there, thanks
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<imperator2> sdegutis, use ffi!
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<sdegutis> no thanks
<erikh> feh
<erikh> patooie
<imperator2> ?
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<imperator2> why not?
<erikh> it's just hard doing stdlib things with it
<erikh> like, really hard
<sdegutis> imperator2: because ive already done most of the work
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<sdegutis> i just need to convert hashes now, thats all
<sdegutis> thats the last leg
<imperator2> ok
<erikh> getting stat() right; unwinding all the macros
<erikh> on each platform
<erikh> graaaah
<imperator2> but you do get jruby support (usually)
<sdegutis> this is mac-only
<sdegutis> im embedding ruby.
<imperator2> oic
<imperator2> nm
<sdegutis> thanks anyway :)
<erikh> sdegutis: have you seen mruby?
<erikh> it's much more suited to this
<sdegutis> it didnt look super mature
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<sdegutis> afaik it also looked abandoned
<erikh> oh it's not abandoned
<erikh> matz is just a busy guy
<sdegutis> oh 2 days ago last commit, wow
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<erikh> the code is pretty clean and simple too
<sdegutis> maybe that was a different small ruby i was thinking of
<erikh> worth looking.
<sdegutis> i think mruby was the one i couldnt compile
<sdegutis> or it crashed, or something.
<erikh> possible if it was a year ago or so
<sdegutis> hmm
<sdegutis> thanks erikh ill take another look
<sdegutis> but after i figure out hashes :)
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<erikh> sure.
<erikh> note that it has nothing fancy -- no i/o layer, for example
<imperator2> iirc i wrote some helper functions for iterating over hashes in C
<sdegutis> ah
<erikh> that's all your job, but it's not much more complicated than lua to embed
<sdegutis> sweet
<erikh> my thoughts exactly
<imperator2> bad news: i have no idea where they are now
<erikh> heh
<erikh> ok back to making puppet funtime yes
<erikh> back later
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<imperator2> cya
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<sdegutis> woo, mruby compiled
<sdegutis> what ruby-version is mruby compatible with?
<sdegutis> 1.9.x?
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<Cremno> ISO spec, a mix of 1.8 and 1.9
<sdegutis> oh
<sdegutis> ah! i have a terrible idea how to access hashes
<sdegutis> convert it to array of tuples, and access those :)
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<sdegutis> this seems terrible. but at least itll work
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<sdegutis> sqlite3 doesnt have any example of enumrating hash
* imperator2 is trying to find his old code
<sdegutis> oh ,rb_hash_foreach
<sdegutis> how did i miss this?
<imperator2> so of course github is hanging
<sdegutis> right i noticed that too :)
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<sdegutis> ouch, rb_hash_foreach takes a fptr
<imperator2> sdegutis, gets trickier if you need indifferent access too
<sdegutis> heh
<imperator2> unless they've added something since i used it
<sdegutis> ill just to .to_a on it
<imperator2> .to_s
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<sdegutis> ha
<sdegutis> hash-with-indifferent-access is a terrible idea btw
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<tubbo> wtf
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<apeiros> it's so terrible, your text pales while you write it
<imperator> damn irc client
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<imperator> why is it terrible?
<sdegutis> encourages incidental complexity
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<imperator> not sure how
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<sdegutis> woot, just wrote the parts of rubycocoa that i care about in like 30 lines
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<banister> sdegutis: incidental complexity would be the explicit conversions between strings/symbols, so surely it discourages it?
<sdegutis> banister: my experience may be skewed
<sdegutis> in any case i have no right to critize ruby. ive moved to clojure.
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<sdegutis> banister: i should say, it encourages sloppiness
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<banister> other than the jvm i dont see the appeal of clojure, i'd rather just jump directly to haskell if i wanted to do functional programming
<judofyr> banister: STM? reducers? macros?
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<banister> judofyr: i dont know what reducers are but haskell has STM and brilliant concurrency/parallel programming support in general. Not sure about macros, but it has something called template haskell that i haven't messed with yet.. :)
<banister> afaict you cant implement a lot of macro-like functionality in haskell due to lazy parameter evaluation and so on
<banister> you can*
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<banister> interesting, the first quantum computing programming language is a DSL written in haskell: http://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/quipper/ :))
<ddfreyne> I'm not sure what to think about Clojure...
<whitequark> banister: have you seen the paper "fexprs as the basis of lisp function application"?
<banister> no
<banister> thanks
<judofyr> one day I'll grasp Fexprs (and that $VAU thingie)
<whitequark> judofyr: it's really simple
<whitequark> for applicatives, every operand is wrapped in (eval) before it's passed
<whitequark> for operatives, every operand is wrapped in a thunk
<whitequark> that's it :)
<judofyr> oh
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: something tells me discussions don't work on Twitter
<yorickpeterse> So lets take them to #ruby-yorickpeterse-whitequark-lang!
<yorickpeterse> also Github is ddos'd again
<whitequark> another reason you shouldn't thoroughly depend on a 3rd-party service
<yorickpeterse> Yeah fuck hosting all our Git stuff ourselves
<yorickpeterse> though the Git interface at least works
<whitequark> don't see a problem with that. I used to host all my git repos at git.whitequark.org
<whitequark> stopped because my pentium III grinded to a halt every time someone pulled my Linux tree
<judofyr> hah
<yorickpeterse> I'm not talking about my personal stuff but about $WORK stuff
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<yorickpeterse> and hosting it yourself doesn't prevent the problem, all it takes is just one dickhead to ddos your box instead of a 100 dickheads that might be needed for GH
<sdegutis> what T_TYPE is Proc going to come in as? its not seeming to be T_OBJECT (or T_CLASS, checked just in case)
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<whitequark> sdegutis: T_DATA
<sdegutis> ah. thanks
<whitequark> http://rxr.whitequark.org/mri/ident?i=rb_proc_call and follow the chain.
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<ddfreyne> banister: clojure + static typing would be nice
<ddfreyne> Clojure is too permissive at times... (:somekey object) will return nil instead of throwing an exception if the key doesn't exist
<ddfreyne> Hell, even (:foo nil) will return nil
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<erikh> it doesn't return a cons cell?
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<banister> .
<erikh> !
<banister> .sorry, stupid logging in errors
<erikh> end of the world man
<banister> and #ruby-lang is finnicky about that :/
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<erikh> oh yeah, +c or w/e
<banister> ddfreyne: have you looked much at haskell's algebraic data types? i watched an incredible video the other day where a guy was actually doing mathematical algebra and even calculus (mclaurin expansions and so on) on haskell datatypes to discern their properties
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<banister> he also hints at some weird connection between complex numbers and the haskell type system
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<darix> .tpTb2m1!
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<yorickpeterse> In risk of being shanked to death: is there a way to attach arbitrary data to Ruby backtraces in MRI?
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: instance variables?
<yorickpeterse> anything
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<yorickpeterse> Use case: error pops up, I'd like to have the corresponding AST node it craps out on show up in the message
<yorickpeterse> without having to catch all the things
<yorickpeterse> Hm, don't think this is possible though
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: class Exception; attr_accessor :my_custom_crap end; raise FooError.new.tap { |x| x.my_custom_crap = … }
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<yorickpeterse> That's the thing, it's not a custom raised error
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<yorickpeterse> The problem: once in a while I bump into some bug in ruby-lint and I'd like to know the node it craps out on [..]
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<yorickpeterse> Right now the process is: 1. find the offending line 2. insert pry-rescue block 3. enjoy doing dumb things
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<erikh> you might be able to piss on the binding somehow
<yorickpeterse> haha, binding_of_caller
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<yorickpeterse> that might be an evil idea
<yorickpeterse> but ugh
<darix> yorickpeterse: just run pry rescue around the whole script?
<yorickpeterse> See, this has to be $PROD ready somehow
<yorickpeterse> and that's basically what I meant with "catch all the things"
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: you can override Exception#set_backtrace, like this: https://github.com/charliesome/better_errors/blob/master/lib/better_errors/core_ext/exception.rb
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: I think that is called for all exceptions
<yorickpeterse> what the
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<judofyr> well, ignore the stuff inside the method
<judofyr> that's specific to better_errors
<judofyr> but the technique should work
<yorickpeterse> hm, thing is this data are local vars
<yorickpeterse> fuckit, I'll just use ye olde pry
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<injekt> whitequark: ping
<whitequark> pong
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<injekt> whitequark: I don't suppose you have those chef resources still?
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<whitequark> injekt: it's somewhere in my gists
<whitequark> I think
<erikh> resources for what
<erikh> I'm all curious now
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<whitequark> erikh: a collection of chef tutorials basically
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<erikh> oh
<erikh> docs.opscode.com
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<injekt> meh
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<whitequark> erikh: yes, that mentions like zero info about chef-solo
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<erikh> probably because chef-solo should die in a fire
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<rue> Can pleas fix chef thank
<whitequark> erikh: no u
<whitequark> more specifically, I'm not going to depend on yet another external service for something as simple as configuring my one server
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<rue> whitequark: injekt: Also interested
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<rue> BECAUSE CHEF SUCKS
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<erikh> heh
<erikh> chef-solo is ... special
<erikh> but it doesn't matter
<erikh> more you all use it the more my mean salary increases ;)
<chris2> anyone tried cfengine3 btw?
<erikh> not yet. I hear good things though
<chris2> it seems to attract fewer hipsters
<erikh> I'm doing puppet at this job, pretty much hate myslef
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<erikh> well puppet and chef were borne from gripes about cfengine, something to consider too
<chris2> i dont really maintain a homogeneous enough environment to really justify automation
<chris2> erikh: that was cfengine2 back then, no?
<erikh> I do it for fun @ home, but yeah, it's not really worth it
<erikh> yeah.
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<erikh> I don't want to comment on it beyond that -- I've never used it, not very fair to suggest it's good / not good under those auspices
<chris2> i just looked at some manuals
<chris2> puppet/chef solve some problems in terrible ways
<chris2> e.g editing /etc/hosts
<erikh> vs?
<erikh> I mean, I try to avoid touch hosts files at all
<chris2> vs just using sed -i :P
<chris2> of course
<erikh> oh, puppet has that with augeas
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<chris2> but defining a "lense" language and then trying to fiddle with that
<erikh> and chef has that with FileEdit
<chris2> it's ridculous
<erikh> yeah it is. puppet is really rails-magical in spots.
<erikh> chef is, by contrast, much much simpler.
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<erikh> editing files is generally not prescribed in chef-land though
<erikh> templates + replacement are generally more reliable
<chris2> and then i dont get why one bases the system on pulling
<erikh> oh
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<chris2> yeah, generation is preferable, i agree
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<erikh> pull is a touchy subject, and revolves around EC issues
<chris2> oh
<chris2> you're the first to mention that
<erikh> especially with advanced features like metadata search
<chris2> but that makes sense actually
<erikh> I kind of live this life now
<erikh> I don't write any other ruby anymore or anything else really
<erikh> sad in some ways, great in others
<chris2> i hardly use ruby either
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<erikh> but if you want to do "push" style, look at tools like mcollective and salt
<chris2> and i dont really see the benefit of using a ruby dsl to administrate lots of machines
<erikh> they do a pretty good job of managing the EC problems
<chris2> yeah, also ansible
<erikh> ah, that's a metaprogramming thing, at least for the advanced stuff.
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<erikh> ansible has a lot of the same problems puppet does
<erikh> hard to be expressive, etc.
<chris2> i think the lowest level of ansible is ok
<chris2> the playbook stuff doesnt seem very good
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<chris2> and by "very good" i mean "shell scripts do it better" :P
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<yorickpeterse> re server management: ansible seems ok for small scales
<yorickpeterse> push models don't really work for zomgscale though
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<darix> chris2: couldnt you write a nice augeas replacement?
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<chris2> i wont write anything until i need it
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<erikh> augeas is a neat idea
<erikh> it's very hard to use though
<darix> erikh: one thing what pull handles a bit better than push ... your pull client will fetch the updates when the machine was down during the last push.
<erikh> yep
<erikh> chef-solo is effectively a push solution, as is puppet -t
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<darix> you could combine things like puppet/check with mcollective/ansible to get "roll out now"
<erikh> yep, lots of people do the mco/puppet combo
<darix> erikh: you kinda have to now that puppet kick is deprecated :)
<erikh> I have this nasty mess I put together with net-ssh and unicorn
<erikh> well, it's not super nasty but it's pretty bad.
<erikh> it's fast though :)
<erikh> I can run 100 machines in under a minute for most things
<erikh> usually the blocker is the run itself, which is really not bad considering
<yalue> Does anybody know if a ruby executable that runs on 16 bit DOS is available somewhere?
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<darix> <insert "not sure if serious" fry picture here>
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<yalue> (Just out of curiosity... I know it's not a practical thing)
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<yalue> I'm serious in that I would try to use it if I could find one :) Not serious in that it's not important if I can't.
<tubbo> you know how Ruby modules have that `def self.included(base)`? does the opposite, `def extended(base)` exist?
<darix> yalue: in theory yes. practically ... not sure if anyone still builds or tests that.
<erikh> yalue: you might get lucky with djgpp and a dos extender, but I really, really, really doubt it
* erikh is old
<whitequark> yalue: try ruby 1.6.5 or something
<tubbo> haha
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<yalue> darix, erikh, whitequark, Thanks, that's what I was figuring. If I ever get such a thing working, I'll be sure to write about it here.
<erikh> yeah, do so. i'm curious
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<erikh> a few years back I ran a renegade / tw2002 just for kicks, it was a nice throwback
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<imperator> you renegade, you had it made
<yalue> I just have an old ThinkPad 350 (non-color) and was trying to think of something fun to do with it.
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<imperator> i think i know someone who wrecked his college career playing trade wars
<imperator> (assuming that's what tw2002 is)
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<erikh> yep
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<erikh> I know a few people who, er, ended up transferring from engineering to liberal arts because of it, that's for sure
<imperator> lol
<erikh> that game is crack
<erikh> and now it's a big bot contest
<erikh> some really crazy bots out there too
<imperator> i should play it - maybe i could turn it into a board game ;)
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<erikh> yeah, that would be fun
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<erikh> I have a license here for the telnettable / windows version if you want to play around
<erikh> legit license I paid for, if you're wondering
<imperator> sure, though i have absolutely no idea how it works
<imperator> guess i'll have to learn :)
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<erikh> yeah -- email me if you don't mind, I need to root it up and I'm at work atm
<erikh> busy day too
<imperator> sure thing, no hurry, thanks
<imperator> just reading the rules now....this could work
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<imperator> let's see if 2.8.9 is less crashy
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<yorickpeterse> haha Ruby
<yorickpeterse> check this out
<yorickpeterse> >> class Foo; p method(:attr_reader).owner; end
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => Module ... (https://eval.in/39579)
<yorickpeterse> now watch this
<yorickpeterse> >> Module.instance_methods(false).include?(:attr_reader)
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => false (https://eval.in/39580)
<yorickpeterse> >> Module.methods(false).include?(:attr_reader)
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => false (https://eval.in/39581)
<yorickpeterse> None of the Module ancestors define it, that I know of at least
<erikh> it's magical IIRC
<erikh> like, done in depths of MRI C
<yorickpeterse> BOOOOOO
<erikh> but I'm not sure where
<yorickpeterse> doesn't surprise me though, after all it's MRI
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<erikh> yep, and it doesn't dump core all the time
<Cremno> Isn't it a private method?
<Cremno> That would explain why it isn't included.
<yorickpeterse> hmm
<erikh> yep, it's private
<erikh> >> Module.attr_reader :foo
<eval-in> erikh => private method `attr_reader' called for Module:Class (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/39582)
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<yorickpeterse> >> Module.private_methods(false).include?(:attr_reader)
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => false (https://eval.in/39583)
<yorickpeterse> >> Module.private_instance_methods(false).include?(:attr_reader)
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<eval-in> yorickpeterse => true (https://eval.in/39584)
<yorickpeterse> GAH
<yorickpeterse> FUCK YOU RUBY
<erikh> haha
<yorickpeterse> it's not even a fucking instance method
<erikh> no, because it has to run ..
<erikh> oh
<erikh> haha
<erikh> oh that makes sense actually because it's on Module
<erikh> self
<erikh> I'm going to eat lunch now
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<JEG2> Anyone seen this issue before?
<yorickpeterse> JEG2: works fine here on 2.0
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<JEG2> I am one version behind. Upgrading to see if that helps…
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<yorickpeterse> I'm on p247
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<mbj> whitequark: Hi, additional service request, can you start monitoring #mutant in your irclogger, #rom-rb gets more mutant specific traffic :D
<mbj> whitequark: And thx!
<JEG2> Yep, it's fixed in p247. Thanks.
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<injekt> whitequark: I guess your gist was private
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<sdegutis> is there a fn/macro that reverses NUM2DBL ?
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<sdegutis> or, whats the best way to create a VALUE from a double?
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<banisterfiend> sdegutis: #define DBL2NUM(dbl) rb_float_new(dbl)
<banisterfiend> that's from ruby.h
<sdegutis> ah rb_float_new, thanks
<sdegutis> right
<banisterfiend> sdegutis: that's DBL2NUM
<banisterfiend> that should just work, did u try it?
<sdegutis> i just assumed it would be along the same pattern as FIX2NUM etc
<sdegutis> so i didnt see that fn
<banisterfiend> it is
<banisterfiend> that's the macro definitino
<banisterfiend> it's called DBL2NUM
<banisterfiend> exactly the inverse of NUM2DBL
<sdegutis> its not in my ruby.h
<sdegutis> but im working with mac's system ruby, which is 1.8.7, which might explain it
<banisterfiend> are you on ruby 2.0 ?
<banisterfiend> yeah
<sdegutis> although in the near future im gonna try to compile and bundle up ruby 2.0 with this app
<banisterfiend> cool
<sdegutis> near future = once i get 1.8.7 working, which should be any hour now
<sdegutis> got any tips on that btw?
<Nilium> Good luck with that, and not in a sarcastic way. I like anyone who tries to go 2.0.
<sdegutis> im scared, on account of absolute paths and such
<Nilium> You'd probably want to check the changelogs between 1.8 and 1.9 and 1.9 to 2.0
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<Nilium> Though 1.9 to 2.0 is relatively simple since not a lot has changed that could screw you.
<sdegutis> i want to compile ruby and load it in such a way that it knows where to look to its own stdlib files, which will be a relative path, not an absolute path
<banisterfiend> sdegutis: i would look try to right code for your 1.8 version that'll just work on 2.0
<banisterfiend> write*
<sdegutis> thats my plan.
<Nilium> Do you use stuff like some_string[n]?
<Nilium> That is, to get character values.
<sdegutis> no
<banisterfiend> so, one thing would be explicitly converting the returns of methods liek instance_methods and so on to arrays of symbols rahter than strings
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<Nilium> Ok, that's one thing you don't have to worry about then.
<Nilium> That one irked the heck out of me for a while.
<sdegutis> i mean the compiling/loading part. i think the compile/link part will be fine, but im just afraid it wont know where to look for its stdlib stuff when i do 'require' inside my scripts
<sdegutis> i assume that when you run `make`, its going to hard-code the stdlib .rb file paths in there.
<Nilium> Maybe if you compile it with a relative prefix? Though I don't know about that, it might just expand it anyway.
<sdegutis> yeah, thats the part im scared of.
<sdegutis> oh well, crossin that bridge when i get to it
<Nilium> I don't know enough about the whole build process to really say anything there
<Nilium> The closest I get is just reading bits of the MRI source to see what's going on.
<Nilium> It's surprisingly clean reading, on the upside.
<Nilium> Assuming you know C, anyway.
<Nilium> But that's neither here nor there.
<sdegutis> :)
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<eydaimon> [0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1].reduce(&:+) #=> 0.7999999999999999 is this a known issue?
<yorickpeterse> it's not an issue, that's more or less how floats work
<eydaimon> ok
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<sdegutis> Can you set a Ruby constant to a Ruby value via C functions?
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<sdegutis> ah rb_define_const
<sdegutis> hiding
<manveru> erikh: yeah, not dead, just gone :)
<sdegutis> rather rb_define_global_const
<erikh> yeah, life happens
<manveru> i check irc maybe once a day atm
<erikh> good to see you're still living though!
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<manveru> there is dota to be played :)
<erikh> hah
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<manveru> srsly, that's like half my job now :)
<erikh> oh you're there?
<erikh> niiiiiice.
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<manveru> nah, not at valve yet :(
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<manveru> we just do stats at dotabuff
<erikh> ah ok
<erikh> still, fun gig
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<manveru> very
<manveru> terabytes of data to play around with and make up fun stats
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<manveru> atm busy expelling half of our rails stack and moving it to go
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<erikh> nice, that sounds fun.
<yorickpeterse> manveru: congrats!
<erikh> we have a lot of go here too, but i'm in ops so I don't get to do that
<erikh> big data problems here though. looking forward to diving in eventually
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<dRbiG> anyone from .hu here?
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<darix> *sends more data to manveru*
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<sdegutis> is there something like rb_funcall2 that takes a Ruby array for args, and splats them?
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<drbrain> sdegutis: maybe rb_apply()
<sdegutis> dang, i dont have that on 1.8.7
<sdegutis> think i just have to malloc a temp array
<manveru> thought 1.8 was dead now?
<sdegutis> default on mac
<drbrain> sdegutis: that's what rb_apply() does
<drbrain> manveru: releases of 1.8 are dead, but users are not
<sdegutis> if i can figure out how to compile ruby 2.0 and bundle it with my app, maybe that solves that
<sdegutis> drbrain: i dont have that fn here
<drbrain> sdegutis: yeah, you can probably copy it out of 1.9
<sdegutis> oh good idea
<drbrain> or 2.0 (MIT license)
<drbrain> … you can use have_function() in your extconf.rb
<drbrain> you'll have to do some porting as 1.8 won't have RARRAY_LENINT() and some of the other macros
<drbrain> but it won't be difficult
<sdegutis> sounds simpler to just malloc and loop for now
<sdegutis> maybe more error prone, but itll be a short thing.
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<sdegutis> building ruby 2.1 wish me luck
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<drbrain> sdegutis: there have been changes to the GC recently (last week) so don't be surprised by a crash
<sdegutis> great
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<drbrain> they should be sorted out by now
<drbrain> last week I couldn't run the full test suite
<sdegutis> waaa No rule to make target `ext/bigdecimal/bigdecimal.a', needed by `ruby'. Stop.
<drbrain> but I've seen several commits since then
<sdegutis> maybe someone broke libruby-static.a build, lemme try it without the static linking
<erikh> hello friends
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<sdegutis> is this a known bug or something? 'No rule to make target `ext/bigdecimal/bigdecimal.a', needed by `ruby'. Stop.'
<erikh> is bigdecimal in C now?
<sdegutis> maybe ill check out a build from 2 weeks ago :)
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<erikh> sdegutis: jump into ext/bigdecimal and see if there's an extconf.rb
<erikh> might be able to build the artifact by hand and get it limping
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<sdegutis> thanks
<drbrain> erikh: it's always been in C
<erikh> huh. well, the more you know™
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<rue> <Newspeak joke>
<erikh> double plus C
<rue> Was it that Bignum wasn’t at some point?
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<whitequark> it's common to implement Bignum in Smalltalk in, well, Smalltalk
<whitequark> side effect being, any type inference algorithm which deals with arithmetics must be able to handle Bignum.
<whitequark> this kind of weeds out shitty algorithms.
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<matti> sdegutis: :)
<sdegutis> matti: ?
<matti> How is your project?
<sdegutis> fine
<matti> :)
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<sdegutis> you can do this now: API.bind "D", ["cmd", "alt", "ctrl"] { p API.visible_windows.map(&:title) }
<sdegutis> as of a few seconds ago
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<sdegutis> o nice it got some tweets https://twitter.com/search?q=zephyros&src=typd
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<sdegutis> super, super hacky
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<banisterfiend> sdegutis: i guess you mean do/end rather than {} there ;)
<sdegutis> banisterfiend: i wanted to one-liner it for irc
<sdegutis> doesnt have to run properly in irc ;)
<banisterfiend> do;end ;)
<sdegutis> fine :P
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<sdegutis> ok cya
<drbrain> rue: Rational
<drbrain> maybe Complex
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