<Rudde>
on the gem site it only says Ruby 2.0.0 or higher in requirements
<Rudde>
I have ruby 2
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<atmosx>
Rudde: then you're fine
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<IceDragon>
^
<atmosx>
2 or higher means 2 or higher
<atmosx>
as in 2 or higher
<Rudde>
But I still get the error in RubyMine
<IceDragon>
if you're not sure, just open a console and type: ruby -v
<atmosx>
Rudde: ruby-what?
<atmosx>
hmm
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<Rudde>
JetBrains RubyMine 5.4
<Rudde>
its a IDE
<atmosx>
Rudde: sounds like something evil
<atmosx>
ruby and ide?
<Rudde>
lolol
<Rudde>
yes?
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<Rudde>
It's very nice
* IceDragon
uses Sublime Text 3
<atmosx>
that's outrageous
<Rudde>
and I try to debug, and thats when I get that error
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<Rudde>
whats wrong with a IDE?
* atmosx
opens his vim
<IceDragon>
x; I could never get the hang of Vim
<atmosx>
Rudde: cluttered, uneneeded and apparently you are having troubles with it
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<atmosx>
IceDragon: I never used sublime, they say it's good
<Rudde>
Well it's not trouble with it, it only sends the command to ruby
<Rudde>
and returns the error
<IceDragon>
:) It is
<atmosx>
IceDragon: but vim is a sort of religion
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<IceDragon>
It stays out of your way, has nice navigation
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<atmosx>
Rudde: never used really, I hate windows with a passion nothing against ides :-P
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<atmosx>
IceDragon: sounds cool
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<Rudde>
It is a RubyMine for linux too
<IceDragon>
:) yeah
<atmosx>
Rudde: under linux you can use vim!
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<IceDragon>
and Sublime
<atmosx>
you can use it under windows too, but why use windows at this point?
<atmosx>
and emacs
<atmosx>
and pico and gedit
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<atmosx>
and kate
* atmosx
is out of editors
<bnagy>
... ok that all looks like a clusterf*ck
<IceDragon>
Windows without a IDE: HELL ON EARTH here we go again
<Rudde>
vim? no never!
<atmosx>
cluster-fuck is a cluster that is fucked up?
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<bnagy>
Rudde: I suggest trying to get help closer to either your IDE or that gem
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<IceDragon>
atmosx: don't forget leafpad
<IceDragon>
and nano
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<Rudde>
well, I get the same error running the .rb from command line
<atmosx>
oh yeah
<IceDragon>
and kwrite
<bnagy>
you don't appear to be having a 'ruby' problem, and neither IDEs nor windows are very common in here
<IceDragon>
>.>
<atmosx>
leafpad? never used that one
<IceDragon>
<.<
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<IceDragon>
It ships with Parted Magic
<IceDragon>
the only reason I found it
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<atmosx>
parted magic, strange name
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<IceDragon>
its a linux distro
<atmosx>
like if hte magic was here and now it's gone because you installed that silly progam
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<atmosx>
omg
<IceDragon>
tuned for, well.. partitioning
<atmosx>
freedom is going to kill UNIX after all.
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<atmosx>
partitioning what?
<IceDragon>
hard disks
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<oldschool>
@bnagy It looks like 'gems' have changed since I last used them - but I want to copy all used gems into the rails' project's directory structure.
<IceDragon>
Though I just abuse it since its portable, and a bit small
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<IceDragon>
Rudde: so what exactly is RubyMine spitting out?
<bnagy>
oldschool: ie have different versions for different configs etc? I think people use bundler for that
<volty>
usually fake because they would have to pay a lot of money after legal action or accident
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<bnagy>
benzrf: probably just unshift and use a state machine
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<bnagy>
you could do it using inject using the accumulator, but it's not elegant imho
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<volty>
he has to couple - one way or another
<benzrf>
bnagy: i was thinking of the latter
<benzrf>
state machine?
<benzrf>
the simplest solution would just be if there's some way to pass an argument to the next iteration only
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<bnagy>
yeah but you still need logic to handle that anyway
<benzrf>
hm
<bnagy>
so you may as well just put it in an unshift loop
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<bnagy>
for arg parsing in particular though it's a well covered problem - cause arg parsing has about a jillion other little annoyances
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<benzrf>
unshift loop?
<bnagy>
if you _knew_ it was flag, arg always you could iterate with like each_slice(2) {|flag,arg| ...
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<benzrf>
yeah, that's why im asking
<benzrf>
:p
<benzrf>
it doesnt need to be advanced, i'm only doing it as a challenge
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<benzrf>
there's this website ive been using where you can write coding challenges and then solve ones written by other people, anad I thought simplified arg parsing would make a good one
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<bnagy>
unshift loop is just while args.any? this = args.unshift; #do logic
<bnagy>
or until args.empty? if you prefer
<benzrf>
ehhh
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<benzrf>
looks gross
<benzrf>
u.u
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<bnagy>
functionally: process args.unshift until args.empty?
<bnagy>
OO we'd do it with a block and a mini-DSL
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<bnagy>
eg look at Trollop
<benzrf>
what is trollop
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<bnagy>
arg parser
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<benzrf>
alright
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<benzrf>
wait how does unshift loop work
<benzrf>
what are you unshifting onto it
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<bnagy>
your options starts as an array, you unshift items off it one by one and process each item
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<benzrf>
i wish ruby had currying & sections & composition
<benzrf>
dang that would be awesome
<benzrf>
also .= could be neat
<coldmethod>
shevy: ping
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<shevy>
wat
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<coldmethod>
I just fell in love with Ruby
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<volty>
want to marry?
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<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
coldmethod but why right now
<shevy>
why not 10 years ago
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<benzrf>
coldmethod: what triggered it
<coldmethod>
shevy: as i am pacing through it, i found out that in Ruby it takes at least half amount of lines to do the same work I have been doing in Python
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<volty>
coldmethod: what about time?
<benzrf>
coldmethod: its cuz of those sweet sweet HOFs
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<benzrf>
i think id prefer python actually if it adopted HOFs and blocks
<benzrf>
but as it is meh
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<coldmethod>
volty: i guess time would be the same after I go through all of the major differences
<shevy>
cool
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<benzrf>
GvR isnt into FP
<shevy>
coldmethod I thought it would be about equal
<benzrf>
what a jerk
<volty>
i don't like python and, above all, its formatting
<shevy>
what I can not forgive python is explicit self
<benzrf>
volty: resistance is futile
<coldmethod>
string interpolation and nesting of methods wowed me.. Python's methods are quite disoriented and inconsisten
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<benzrf>
coldmethod: u wot
<benzrf>
shevy: it's not exactly explicit self
<shevy>
you must pass it
<shevy>
otherwise it does not know what self is
<coldmethod>
yes, you must pass it
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<benzrf>
it is a pain indeed
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<shevy>
well
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<volty>
but i learned a lesson: funny ruby makes you write things that you do not understand after some time (or at least you need time to understand them)
<shevy>
perhaps python was designed just differently
<benzrf>
otoh it means less magic and allows super cool hax
<benzrf>
shevy: do you understand how self passing works in py?
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<shevy>
benzrf I think so. you must always pass one argument to denote what self is
<volty>
python is just older and had to be "patched"
<benzrf>
shevy: not exactly
* coldmethod
LOLing after looking at the "selfs" i had to write in this small 1k lines script
<shevy>
in ruby I can! self is available existing!
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<benzrf>
basically there is a hook you can intercept when attrs are inherited from a class
<shevy>
wait
<shevy>
is that magic benzrf? :-)
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<benzrf>
for the function type, this hook is implemented such that
<shevy>
!
<shevy>
magic!!!
<shevy>
in python!
<benzrf>
it is not magic
<coldmethod>
wrote "self" 102 times in that script haha
<shevy>
well, I have not really written enough python
<shevy>
I wrote more php in my life :(
<shevy>
I was young, innocent
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<shevy>
and needed the money...
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<benzrf>
>basically there is a hook you can intercept when attrs are inherited from a class
<shevy>
ok how does this work
<benzrf>
for the function type, this hook is implemented such that inheriting a function attr from a class instead returns a wrapper around the function
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<benzrf>
that passes in the object you got it from as the first arg
<coldmethod>
that's part of the life shevy .. don't be sad.. you at least converted me
<benzrf>
you can override this hook yourself
<coldmethod>
lol
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<benzrf>
which is how @classmethod works, fr example
<shevy>
coldmethod I did? I dont remember doing anything...
<shevy>
perhaps I was drunk
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<benzrf>
the neat thing about nonmagical self is that it allows you to make methods where self is something other than self
<shevy>
aha
<shevy>
benzrf, how can you manage two languages at the same time
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<benzrf>
im just amazing
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<benzrf>
that way
<coldmethod>
you did sir .. and now i am all Ruby LOL
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<coldmethod>
cannot wait to finish off this book
<benzrf>
anyway hopefully you are not defining too many classes in py
<shevy>
coldmethod well... I don't remember... but at any rate, start to write gem projects on your own as quickly as possible. you will learn a LOT doing that... I wish I would have done that many years ago
<shevy>
even if it is small gems
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<shevy>
sooner or later the more you have, the more you write, the larger some of these will become
<benzrf>
anyway whats with ruby's shitty ass import system
<shevy>
ha yeah
<shevy>
benzrf python has some definite advantages over ruby
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<volty>
but the question remains: what for?
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<shevy>
the import system is one... the docu another
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<shevy>
volty for complete fine tuning everything!
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<shevy>
I imagine a system where magical things were to happen
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<shevy>
require 'pizza'
<coldmethod>
thanks for the advice shevy
<coldmethod>
i plan to start small system administration gems, move up the notch by converting existing apps from Pythons and finally do the rails
<shevy>
require 'pizza/import' <--- automatically import them into the namespace without having to do include
<volty>
i have to tune for my goal
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<shevy>
coldmethod oh... I still have to dive into rails. perhaps I'll do so soon
<benzrf>
in PYTHON, every file is a module and the file-scoped vars are attributes in the object you get when you import it
<benzrf>
B)
<shevy>
see volty?
<benzrf>
which if you ask me is an extremely good way to do it
<shevy>
^^^ a kick ass system
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<coldmethod>
that's right .. you can import classes and functions off a python "*.py" file
<shevy>
I often want to be able to put a file I require into a module, at runtime in ruby
<benzrf>
shevy: not classes & functions
<shevy>
or to rearrange modules in ways I see fit
<benzrf>
all top level vars
<shevy>
:(
<shevy>
see, I dont know what matz is doing
<shevy>
mruby
<shevy>
that'll be ready in like 5 years...
<coldmethod>
shevy: yes, please do so i can follow and learn :D
<benzrf>
another thing i like about python is that it doesn't have a bajillion different things for similar purposes
<shevy>
coldmethod rails is hard for me, I need to dig into things, experiment a lot ... as if I would knew nothing
<benzrf>
ruby has constants, locals, class vars, methods, ivars
<benzrf>
python just has vars & attrs
<shevy>
*know
<jrobeson>
i'd be able to have real namespaces mapped to an autoloader..
<benzrf>
and they are CONSISTENT
<shevy>
jrobeson autoloader? didn't matz say he hates it?
<volty>
it is not that easy, the things in ruby get complicated when a project becomes quite big
<jrobeson>
shevy, no idea
<benzrf>
class vars are attrs on the class object, ivars and methods are attrs on the instance
<benzrf>
simple
<coldmethod>
.sort() and len() and del() and not consistent benzrf
<volty>
how do you call that? when people can work separately on single pieces that feet well together?
<benzrf>
del() is not a function
<shevy>
benzrf yeah but it's a tradeoff... ruby uses @ and @@, python uses only _ denotion as part of the name I think or? that seems a simpler system
<jrobeson>
benzrf, that's like not at all that complicated compare to any other language.. that isn't python.
<benzrf>
jrobeson: there you go
<benzrf>
:-D
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<benzrf>
that just means pythons awesome, not ruby's bad
<benzrf>
shevy: yeah, that is a thing
<shevy>
python code written by someone else must read as if you would have written it yourself
<benzrf>
shevy: yep
<shevy>
when I look at volty's code, I want to stab him
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<jrobeson>
i kinda wish i was using python
<benzrf>
thats the upside of !timtwotdi
<shevy>
when I look at Hanmac1's code, I want to stab him
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<benzrf>
ok I think the ideal would be
<shevy>
in ruby there is too much individualism on code
<benzrf>
python with syntactic sugar
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
and its docu!
<benzrf>
i.e. @foo -> self.foo
<benzrf>
or something
<shevy>
ruthon!
<jrobeson>
hah
<benzrf>
coldmethod: anyway yeah python is annoyingly inconsistent about methods vs functinos
<shevy>
with a rolling rrrr
<benzrf>
*functions
<shevy>
I am sure php is worse
<coldmethod>
python's greatest weakness is "self", unefficient implementation of classes and OOP, non-nestable string objects and what not..
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<shevy>
oh one thing too benzrf
<benzrf>
coldmethod: let me address those one by one
<benzrf>
:-D
<coldmethod>
lol ok
<benzrf>
coldmethod: what's this unefficient impl stuff
<benzrf>
shevy: yeah?
<shevy>
benzrf in a hybrid language, I would want to have the ability to choose whether I want to use indent or not on a per-file level
<shevy>
so in ruby you dont have to indent
<shevy>
in python you have
<shevy>
hybrid - you can decide!
<benzrf>
shevy: personally id like something like haskell
<shevy>
then I could omit "end" in ruby
<benzrf>
where you indent by default, but if you put curlies around, it uses that
<benzrf>
:U
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
haskell scares me
<jrobeson>
i like the end.. it's easier to read
<benzrf>
pfft
<volty>
why don't you program in haskell?
<benzrf>
volty: because im not hardcore enough
<benzrf>
but haskell is great man
<shevy>
jrobeson but you dont get a real extra information if you format properly, you only put it so to satisfy the parser
<shevy>
I mean with end
<shevy>
def foo
<shevy>
puts 'Hi there'
<shevy>
(here either a newline, or end)
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<volty>
yes, from that little I saw, it is great
<shevy>
though in python you must use the :
<benzrf>
pattern matching is the SHIT
<shevy>
I never understood that...
<benzrf>
shevy: i like the :
<shevy>
def foo(input):
<jrobeson>
shevy, imeant that it's easier while browsing code to say.. here's the beginning here's the end .. together
<benzrf>
i thought it was annoying at first
<shevy>
why? what does the : give you benzrf?
<benzrf>
but it makes it easier to read
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<shevy>
it doesn't give anything meaningful
<shevy>
so does (lisp( argue :D
<benzrf>
shevy: it gives you more readable continuation lines actually
<jrobeson>
ok.. so why don't you just start with coffeescript
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<benzrf>
shevy: watch this
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<benzrf>
if (foo and
<benzrf>
bar):
<shevy>
jrobeson hmm... what I dont like is that it targets javascript
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<shevy>
the syntax seems much better than javascript
<benzrf>
you can see much more easily where the condition end
<benzrf>
s
<coldmethod>
benzrf: when making classes in python, you have to initialize all instance variables with self.. a method doesn't take any number of arguments still requires self to be passed onto it.. and you cannot really pass on an instance variable as an argument to another method directly
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<benzrf>
coldmethod: yes, but this:
<jrobeson>
javascript is getting better though.. and it'll keep getting better.. and faster
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<shevy>
benzrf do you really make continuations like that?!
<benzrf>
a. cuts down on magic like FUCK
<benzrf>
b. allows overriding builtin behaviour
<coldmethod>
stuff like that, which make look classes overly lengthy and cumbersome
<benzrf>
shevy: yes
<jrobeson>
you could also target lua with it not too difficut like
<shevy>
!!!
<benzrf>
shevy: ?
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<shevy>
how can you read that!
<benzrf>
well you can also use \
<shevy>
that's awful as well hehehe
<benzrf>
how is it awful
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<benzrf>
D:<
<shevy>
one day I want a perfect language
<jrhorn424>
I'm in my project directory, and I've prepended 'test' to $LOAD_PATH, but `require test/helper` still fails in console. `./test/helper.rb` is present.
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<shevy>
benzrf I dunno, I think I just hate the \ in general
<jrobeson>
hah.. perfect language :(
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<shevy>
jrobeson well better than the other languages at least :)
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<coldmethod>
i guess that won't be the case.. shevy
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<shevy>
98% perfection is acceptable!
<benzrf>
shevy: oh yeah \ is awfu
<benzrf>
l
<coldmethod>
cause, on this planet there's a law of imperfection
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<shevy>
it is awfu\
<shevy>
l
<benzrf>
parens allow line continues though
<benzrf>
how does ruby do them?
<shevy>
ok
<shevy>
I am not sure...
<shevy>
probably with \
<benzrf>
ew
<shevy>
:/
<coldmethod>
but ruby at least for me, makes me realize that it is currently *the* best thing my eyes can feed on
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<benzrf>
meh
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<shevy>
benzrf, the ruby parser is a strange thing
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<benzrf>
ruby's syntax allows some really nice shit i wish python had
<shevy>
I think matz had to sacrifice some chickens in order to write it and not fail
<benzrf>
ON THE OTHER HAND
<benzrf>
it sucks like hell
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<coldmethod>
oh yea, and passing on arguments without parentheses really surprised me first LOL
<benzrf>
coldmethod: clearly uve never perled
<coldmethod>
i guess that is a good "minimalist" thing
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<shevy>
coldmethod that's strange. I really thought that python and ruby are very comparable to one another
<coldmethod>
yes, i have never
<shevy>
I was not happy with perl either
<alpha123>
shevy: Ruby has some nice syntactic sugar and is just a prettier language in general
<shevy>
I was more productive in php, I am ashamed to admit :(
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<benzrf>
im always upset with paren stuff
<coldmethod>
my best guess is Matz took inspiration from the Python's simplicity and took good things from it
<shevy>
benzrf, I often forgot to use ";" in perl
<alpha123>
shevy: Semantically I guess they're pretty comparable
<coldmethod>
but clearly the differences are huge..
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<benzrf>
the thing is
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<benzrf>
being able to leave off parens in calls is AWESOME
<shevy>
benzrf, after doing so over many months, a few hundred times, I got fed up and realized I was too dumb for perl
<shevy>
yeah
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<benzrf>
but it also means
<benzrf>
you either:
<shevy>
well, in python you can omit ";" too
<benzrf>
1. make no args and no parens diffrfent, which is inconsistent
<benzrf>
or
<coldmethod>
oh and i don't have to abide by the universal "law" of indenting every other line hahaha
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<benzrf>
2. lose first class funcs
<benzrf>
and haskell does it right
<benzrf>
god damn
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<shevy>
coldmethod it's kinda true, I think matz had a great idea to pick what is good, kinda like a copycat. typical japanese or chinese mentality, they take existing things and improve them :D
<alpha123>
haskell does a lot of things right =P
<benzrf>
purity means that there is no significant diff. between a 0-arg function & a variable
<poutine>
I personally think TCL or coldfusion will be the future
<benzrf>
so the point is moot!
<benzrf>
:D
<shevy>
man TCL
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<shevy>
it just won't die will it!!!
<benzrf>
hs basically has perfect syntax
<coldmethod>
shevy: so true LOL
<benzrf>
id like to see anybody improveit
<alpha123>
poutine: cobol will be making a comeback too!
<shevy>
benzrf I found haskell very, very difficult to get into
<benzrf>
shevy: how so
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<shevy>
I dunno, it seemed very complicated
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<alpha123>
benzrf: Yup, Haskell probably has my favorite syntax. Ruby is a decent 2nd place though
<benzrf>
well
<shevy>
I still try to understand monads
<benzrf>
the thing is
<coldmethod>
also, forgetting about keeping everything in indentation unlike Python, makes me feel like an evil genius haha
<benzrf>
haskell is basically 80% different from any other language u know
<benzrf>
probably
<shevy>
coldmethod ok but be careful, you could pickup sloppy technique that way
<benzrf>
so you go in expecting something that's 30% new
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<benzrf>
and you get something80% new
<benzrf>
and it seems absurdly hard
<benzrf>
you just need to get it through your head that this is something totally new
<shevy>
hmm
<alpha123>
I actually found Haskell very simple, but very abstract which took a lot of getting used to.
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<benzrf>
alpha123: yup
<benzrf>
at its core haskell is super simple
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<benzrf>
anyway monads arent THAT hard
<shevy>
benzrf well... I think I would have like no problem with python... and probably not with javascript... and probably not with java either, if I dont mind the verbosity... but
<benzrf>
the problem is that everybody makes a big deal about them
<shevy>
haskell... that seems to be only for truly clever people
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<benzrf>
nah
<alpha123>
monads seem extremely easy once you "get" them
<benzrf>
again, see my above descriptions
<alpha123>
but I was confused as heck until I finally understood what they are
<benzrf>
shevy: it's like if you learn to drive a car
<benzrf>
then you learn to drive a truck
<benzrf>
then you learn to drive a tractor
<coldmethod>
ah ok shevy: i comment/uncomment/debug things on multiline and in python that is difficult since it requires you to realign subsequent code blocks
<alpha123>
shevy: would it help if I told you jQuery is a monad? (it's not quite, but it's the same general concept)
<coldmethod>
now at least i am free for the indent barrier LOL
<benzrf>
shevy: everything up to this point is basically similar
<Rudde>
Is it possible to make Apps for Anroid in Ruby?
<benzrf>
then if you try to learn how to drive a motorboat
<benzrf>
it's pretty different
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<alpha123>
Rudde: jRuby I guess
<benzrf>
and if youre expecting something like your car, it might just seem like youre bad at it
<RubyPanther>
shevy: I think the idea is that you can represent math more easily with functional programming, which is mostly about having a lot of constraints
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<shevy>
why so complicated Rudde
<shevy>
well that was always a big problem
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<shevy>
I really suck at math :(
<Rudde>
Because not having anything there dont work
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: not at all
<shevy>
Rudde this can not be, I just showed you in the >> line that it works!
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<RubyPanther>
yeah, math sucks, all I need BigDecimal and sin()
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: lack of state has significant advantages once you adapt to it
<shevy>
higher math I always fail
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<Rudde>
if (isPrime(i))
<RubyPanther>
lack of state also has lots of disadvantages, if you've adapted to them, or not
<benzrf>
name onewheelskyward
<benzrf>
*one
<benzrf>
:D
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<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
that is a good nick to tab complete
<RubyPanther>
that is why Ruby makes programmers more happy
<jrhorn424>
I'm in my project directory, and I've prepended 'test' to $LOAD_PATH, but `require test/helper` still fails in console. `./test/helper.rb` is present.
<shevy>
twosheelskyward
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<shevy>
jrhorn424 no idea what you have do. I solve this by installing things into SITE DIR always when I have a project
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: state monad m8
<shevy>
so I never have to modify $LOAD_PATH
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<RubyPanther>
In other areas of life we can have a little state whenever we need it. I have lots of state on my whiteboard.
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<benzrf>
yeah im not denying that state is often useful
<shevy>
I have the sleeping state and the zombie state
<Rudde>
what is the difference between to_i and to_int?
<jrhorn424>
shevy: i see.
<benzrf>
im saying that it's usually easy to work around any issues the lack causes if you know how
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<benzrf>
Rudde: exremely confusing
<benzrf>
*extremely
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<benzrf>
anyway ruby isn't named after anything as awesome as python
<benzrf>
so clearly pthon wins
<RubyPanther>
I want to get the crud on the whiteboard into my code, so naturally the least surprising way is going to be translating the diagrammed state machine into code
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: that's your fault for diagramming a state machine
<benzrf>
;_)
<Rudde>
Do ruby have any possebillity for multithreading?
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: also: state monad
<benzrf>
or not
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<benzrf>
i hear its a pain
<shevy>
Rudde kinda, I think. you can use many threads and sync them
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<RubyPanther>
very few people, and very few programming problems, have their focus in translating a formula. The vast majority of use cases involves lists of actions and responses
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<shevy>
there is a pickaxe example for that Rudde
<benzrf>
shevy: do you know about generic types
<jrhorn424>
shevy: thanks, require 'foo_project' might be it. reading up on loadpath now.
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: so?
<benzrf>
why does that make haskell bad?
<Rudde>
I will read it
<Rudde>
but it isn't read in a day
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<benzrf>
since when is wimax a ting?!
<RubyPanther>
and involve data that is represented in state. This is true even if you're writing instructions for humans on 3x5 cards
<benzrf>
*thing
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: you just need to change your way of thinking
<RubyPanther>
you will have something like: "maximum field length: 120 yards"
<shevy>
threads << Thread.new(page) { |myPage|
<shevy>
benzrf to be honest
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: ok, how is that not something you can do in haskell?
<shevy>
benzrf I am still not sure I understand what a type is
<benzrf>
shevy: oh man
<RubyPanther>
And then in other parts of the instructions, it will reference "maximum field length"
<shevy>
it is something invariant, right?
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<benzrf>
shevy: a type is the type of data something is
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<shevy>
like an apple is always an apple and a car is always a car
<benzrf>
well, kind of
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<benzrf>
haskell's types are interesting
<shevy>
so a generic type I would assume that it could become any kind of type
<benzrf>
not exactly
<shevy>
:(
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<benzrf>
by generic type i really mean a parameterized type
<shevy>
what is that
<benzrf>
the most common kind is for containers
<benzrf>
the classic example is a list
<benzrf>
list is a type
<benzrf>
list of Ints is a type
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<benzrf>
list is parameterized
<benzrf>
it takes one parameter
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<benzrf>
so you can have [Int] or [String] or [[Int]]
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<benzrf>
[a] matches any kind of list
<benzrf>
[in haskell, type names are always uppercase]
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<benzrf>
types allow type checking, which can significantly reduce bugs
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<benzrf>
of course static typing can be a huge pain
<benzrf>
see java
<benzrf>
but haskell has type inference, which is amazing
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<RubyPanther>
And there are actually serious engineering disadvantages if you require each place you say "maximum field length" to have it embedded in there as a self-sufficient instruction, because then you lose the ability to abstract other than in one precise way. What if you start building a field, and then they tell you part way through, no this one is for Canadian Football. Now you're re-generating a whole stack of instruction cards.
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<RubyPanther>
If you have state, you just use whiteout in one spot
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: i'm sorry, but haskell has constants
<benzrf>
just not variables
<benzrf>
maxFieldLength = 120
<RubyPanther>
ugh
<benzrf>
^^compiles
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<RubyPanther>
that's like being punched in the stomach, compared to a beautiful language like Ruby, and state everywhere, every context has some state
<benzrf>
believe it or not, hs was designed for humans, not math majors
<benzrf>
excuse me
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<benzrf>
did you just call ruby more beautiful than haskell
<RubyPanther>
just like in life, I could take out a postit and create state at any moment
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<bnagy>
ruby is strongly typed, btw
<benzrf>
bnagy: yes it is
<benzrf>
it is also dynamically typed
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: How often do you actually mutate things that are passed to you and are not local to the current method?
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<bnagy>
all the time
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<RubyPanther>
benzrf: constantly, databases and datastores. Frequently, class variables
<benzrf>
bnagy: really?
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: apart from dbs
<benzrf>
i mean internal program things
<Rudde>
I try to write puts "Found #{found} primes in ", (ending-start)*1000, " ms" but after every comma it gets on a new line
<bnagy>
every String and Array ! method does that
<Rudde>
how do I avoid this?
<RubyPanther>
I use all the available layers of state
<bnagy>
not that it's what ! means, but it's common
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<benzrf>
bnagy: and do you ! method things that are passed to you?
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<bnagy>
depends what's being passed
<RubyPanther>
things are local to an object instance more often than a method
<RubyPanther>
if a method has a bunch of state it is probably doing too much
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<bnagy>
this is going to get into by value / ref and it will be irritating :/
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: there you go
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<benzrf>
just reduce it a little more
<benzrf>
:)
<bnagy>
RubyPanther: puts adds a newline, you can use print
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<bnagy>
sorry
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: have you actually written much haskell?
<bnagy>
Rudde: ^^
<RubyPanther>
egads, why would I write much haskell?
<benzrf>
and there you go
<benzrf>
;)
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<Rudde>
nice lol :P
<benzrf>
lack of state sounds restrictive, doesn't it?
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<RubyPanther>
Ruby brings happiness and joy, it is pragmatic, and tries not to be surprising or clever
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: fun fact:
<benzrf>
haskell is even less surprising
<benzrf>
it is almost impossible for haskell to surprise you
<benzrf>
the reason?
<benzrf>
no mutation or state
<benzrf>
;)
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<benzrf>
also, the type system is amazing
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<benzrf>
it's actually possible sometimes to figure out what a function does just from its type
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<RubyPanther>
because it is almost impossible to implement a use case, so you switch tools without having been very surprised
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<benzrf>
ha
<benzrf>
v. clever
<benzrf>
haskell is sometimes not pragmatic, true
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<RubyPanther>
I can say this, haskell lends itself well to code generation. If I really needed to write haskell, I would write it in Ruby.
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<benzrf>
i'm sorry, but can you give me a concrete example of when you would prefer mutation to returning something new?
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<benzrf>
ok thats unfair
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<benzrf>
there are plenty of times when it's useful since ruby does not have haskell's facilities for dealing with lack of state
<RubyPanther>
whenever I would rather cross out the old answer instead of retyping the whole card
<benzrf>
but haskell does the rewriting for you!
<benzrf>
usually.
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<RubyPanther>
by faking some state
<benzrf>
your point?
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<RubyPanther>
that the state is good, and embracing it brings happiness
<benzrf>
nah man
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<benzrf>
state is convenient, often
<benzrf>
but it leads to bugs
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<RubyPanther>
no, inputting code leads to bugs
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<benzrf>
anyway just get back to me in about 2 years and im sure ill have changed what im raving about
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<Rudde>
bnagy: What ^ didnt work?
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<bnagy>
haha :)
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<coldmethod>
benzrf: since you know haskell, how would you compare that to ruby, like over 400 miles?
<Rudde>
So how does one do it?
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<benzrf>
coldmethod: 'like over 400 miles'?
<benzrf>
can you explain?
<coldmethod>
like in a bigger picture lol
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<benzrf>
well
<benzrf>
personally id definitely use ruby for almost everything
<coldmethod>
(p.s. for some reason saying 'haskell' makes me feel naughty LOL)
<benzrf>
because im not yet fully comfortable with haskell in more than 30 lines or so
<benzrf>
but if i were, id almost certainly use haskell
<coldmethod>
wow
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<coldmethod>
i see
<benzrf>
haskell is basically completely different from most other languages i've ever used
<coldmethod>
and the top reason be?
<benzrf>
so it's like learning to program all over
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<benzrf>
hmm
<benzrf>
there are several
<benzrf>
one is just speed
<coldmethod>
quite interesting
<benzrf>
haskell done right is much faster than ruby
<benzrf>
another is the typing
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<benzrf>
static typing is great for catching bugs
<coldmethod>
duck typing?
<coldmethod>
ahh
<coldmethod>
ok
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<benzrf>
static typing is generally better than dynamic IMO, except for the fact that it's a huge goddamn pain in langs like java
<benzrf>
haskell manages to get the perks of static typing with little of the drawbacks
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<benzrf>
also i just like haskell
<benzrf>
it's a pretty awesome language
<benzrf>
i can only hope that someday i understand it
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<coldmethod>
wow
<benzrf>
:o
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<benzrf>
Haskell has no state and no side effect
<benzrf>
a
<coldmethod>
seems inspirational
<benzrf>
*effects
<benzrf>
:p
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<benzrf>
all functions in haskell are referentially transparent
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<benzrf>
that basically means that functions do nothing at all besides returning a value, and the same args will always return the same value
<benzrf>
so addition is referentially transparent
<benzrf>
but rand() and gets are not
<RubyPanther>
In Ruby I just use C when I need something faster
<coldmethod>
I remember in a recent conf, someone asked Matz about his programming language enthusiasm and he said that he couldn't understand Haskell for more than five lines
<benzrf>
heh
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<coldmethod>
quite agree with RubyPanther
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<benzrf>
haskell has lazy evaluation
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<benzrf>
or at least non strict
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<benzrf>
ruby: 'print "N"; loop { print 'o'};'
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<benzrf>
haskell: putStrLn $ 'N':(repeat 'O')
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<benzrf>
'N':(repeat 'O') is an infintely long string that consists of NOOOO(etc)
<benzrf>
in ruby, it would take forever to evaluate it and it would never get printed
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<benzrf>
in haskell, it evaluates more of it as it needs it
<benzrf>
instead of doing it all ahead of time
<coldmethod>
damn, Haskell seems to be written for humans with alien intelligence haha
<benzrf>
coldmethod: that's what regular programming seems like to people who dont know it
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<benzrf>
the key is that it's something totally different
<RubyPanther>
In Ruby that would be implemented as a range or something
<benzrf>
it's like learning to program all over again
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<coldmethod>
benzrf: people, who are like aliens
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<coldmethod>
lol
<h0rrorvacui>
there is lazy enumeration in ruby
<benzrf>
h0rrorvacui: yes, but haskell does it by default for normal expressions
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<benzrf>
coldmethod: also, haskell has no function for getting input, because that would not be referentially transparent
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<coldmethod>
benzrf: really? holly cow
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<benzrf>
haskell has a thing called 'monadic IO'
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<benzrf>
there's more than one way to explain how it works
<benzrf>
personally, I favor this one
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<benzrf>
basically, the return value of 'getLine' is an 'IO action'
<benzrf>
what you do is, you bind the action to another action
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<benzrf>
you build up one big program composed of actions
<benzrf>
then you return it and it gets executed
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<benzrf>
printing is also not accomplished through a function, because that would be a side effect
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<benzrf>
basically, calling a function should do nothing other than getting something back
<h0rrorvacui>
That seems like a downside, perhaps thats a reason to use a less purely functional language instead :P
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<nobitanobi>
Why would something like this: expect { 'json' }.to be_eql('json') return 'false'?
<benzrf>
h0rrorvacui: why?
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<benzrf>
there's sugar to make it more palatable
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<h0rrorvacui>
So I can have side effects when I want, and not when I don't.
<benzrf>
on the whole, you can use it almost like regular IO
<RubyPanther>
so you wave your hands when it comes to getting input, because you really do need to get input, and it really isn't referentially transparent at compile time
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: not exactly
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<benzrf>
if you choose to view the monads as building a structure, then your main function returns the same value every time
<benzrf>
which is then executed
<coldmethod>
but that is kinda turn off in ruby world since that monadic IO you mentioned looks as if it's there to facilitate the programming language itself and not the humans
<RubyPanther>
it has all the same problems as LISP
<benzrf>
how so?
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: excuse me but what problems does lisp have
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<benzrf>
& i don't think it's been allcaps since the 80s or something
<RubyPanther>
LISP makes programmers cry. And that is bad.
<coldmethod>
Haha
<benzrf>
u kidding
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<benzrf>
one of ruby's major inspirations is scheme
<benzrf>
coldmethod: in practice, you can write this:
<benzrf>
main = do
<benzrf>
putStrLn "what is your name?"
<coldmethod>
I like it to the part where it's involved in Emacs.. and that it.. no more, on less!!!
<benzrf>
name <- getLine
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<benzrf>
putStrLn "Hello " ++ name
<coldmethod>
lol
<benzrf>
coldmethod: that's syntactic sugar for:
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<coldmethod>
for?
<RubyPanther>
The built-in restrictions mean that you can not simply translate a normal use case, expressed in human terms, into a program. Instead, you have a translate it into a whole different logical system that anybody would have used to describe a needed program
<benzrf>
main = putStrLn "what is your name?" >> getLine >>= \name -> putStrLn "Hello " + name
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: you are using preconceived notions of what is natural
<RubyPanther>
There are good reasons that emacs is actually written in C, and LISP is just the configuration/plugin language
<h0rrorvacui>
benzrf: I've never heard anyone say ruby was inspired by scheme
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<h0rrorvacui>
benzrf: Lisp on the other hand...
* coldmethod
agreeing with RubyPanther
* coldmethod
once again!!!
<benzrf>
h0rrorvacui: hmm, i couldve sworn i saw it said somewhere that ruby was partially inspired by scheme
<benzrf>
huh
<jrobeson>
smalltalk
<h0rrorvacui>
benzrf: smalltalk
<benzrf>
yeah ik
<benzrf>
but the whole 'everything is an expression' thing looks a LOT like lisp
<benzrf>
i've been reading land of lisp, and the code looks similar to ruby semantically
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<benzrf>
aside from methods vs functions
<h0rrorvacui>
Lisp influenced smalltalk so it double influenced ruby
<benzrf>
yup
<RubyPanther>
"smalltalk object semantics with Perl/C syntax" or something
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: and lisp non-object semantics
<benzrf>
:)
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: anyway i think you are working off of preconceived notions of what is natural
<nobitanobi>
Why am I getting this when running the tests "NameError:
<Rudde>
Why is the Prime.prime?() feature so slow?
<nobitanobi>
`format' is not allowed as an instance variable name" - I have tried changing the name, and I get the same error: http://pastebin.com/VH7ZhBW1
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<benzrf>
evaluating an expression for its side effects may seem stranger to somebody who doesn't know about coding than purity does to you
<RubyPanther>
well, if I say "natural" I mean it in the same way as Larry Wall would mean it
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<benzrf>
ha
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<h0rrorvacui>
I would have to say that the world is better modeled the OOP and procedural way than functional. So I think RubyPanther means in that way it is more natural.
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<RubyPanther>
my first interest in Ruby was when Larry Wall gave a streamed interview in the late 90s and said if you want to do everything with OOP instead of procedural, then Ruby is a better language than Perl (because Perl's OO support was an afterthought that was "bolted-through"). He then went on to give a defense of procedural. But I was already using Perl and trying to do everything as OOP
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<benzrf>
h0rrorvacui: what exactly do you mean by OOP in this sense?
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<RubyPanther>
Yeah, basic human instructions are procedural, not functional. And then when you start engineering things, OOP is natural; it represents the subjective groupings of things, and records information about those things _with_ the things.
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: ADTs
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<benzrf>
and typeclasses got you covered for polymorphism
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<benzrf>
anyway, haskell is better at imperative than ruby is at functional
<benzrf>
:)
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<benzrf>
and monadic IO has definite upsides
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<benzrf>
being able to manipulate side effects like data is useful
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<RubyPanther>
The difference is, Ruby doesn't have to do functional at all, and functional has to "fake it" constantly
<benzrf>
excuse me
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<shevy>
hmm
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<shevy>
I want a prototypic language like ruby
<shevy>
I mean, like ruby in the essence of the syntax
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<shevy>
there was Io but the syntax was not a lot of fun
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<shevy>
x := "hi world"
<benzrf>
whaaat
<h0rrorvacui>
Ioke
<benzrf>
io has nifty syntax
<benzrf>
h0rrorvacui: i saw that but it looked exactly like io
<benzrf>
is it not
<shevy>
oh
<shevy>
Ioke seems to have gotten away with the :
<benzrf>
well a plain = means change but not create
<benzrf>
[in io]
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<shevy>
= means updateSlot if I recall correctly
<benzrf>
i want python with symbols and blocks and better method chaining
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<shevy>
hehe
<benzrf>
and interpolation
<shevy>
python 4.0
<benzrf>
and a bit more sugar
<benzrf>
:-D
<shevy>
ok
<shevy>
python 5.0
<shevy>
we have to be realistic
<benzrf>
heh
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<benzrf>
nah blocks in python isnt happening
<benzrf>
gvr may be a bdfl but hes still a dfl
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<benzrf>
and damn he isn't a fan of FP
<benzrf>
:|
<benzrf>
he tried to kill python lambdas
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<benzrf>
not that they're any good anway
<benzrf>
totally couldve gone for barry_as_FLUFL
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<shevy>
hehe
<shevy>
he tried to kill python lambdas which you dislike but you also dislike the python lambdas at the same time
<shevy>
I find that funny :D
<benzrf>
what i mean is that he tried to kill what little was left
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<benzrf>
oh btw can i add ruby's everythingasanexpression to my wishlist
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<benzrf>
make it python X
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<benzrf>
RubyPanther: what does that have to do with hofs
<linoge>
Hi, I'm doing a software that uses MySQL. What would be the best way the creation of the tables?
<linoge>
*to handle
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<linoge>
See, I've got a first run wizard and it should set up everything for the app to be ready to use
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<linoge>
But I don't what would be the best way to create tables :/
<pw3>
have you decided on what library you're going to use to access mysql?
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<RubyPanther>
benzrf: it is the same thing, except that Ruby does it with OO so it has even more power (for example, the list doesn't have to be an array)
<benzrf>
...i do not understand what that has to do with hofs
<h0rrorvacui>
benzrf: you do mean high order functions right?
<benzrf>
yeah
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<h0rrorvacui>
well then it solves the same problem
<benzrf>
???
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<linoge>
pw3: the mysql gem (2.9.1)..
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<benzrf>
how are higher order functions and enumerables the same?
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<pw3>
linoge: can't you just create a query to create the tables? Perhaps I'm not understanding your problem.
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<benzrf>
also, are you saying that list operations are the only use of HOFs?
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<linoge>
pw3: Yes, I could, that was my first thought, but... I thought maybe there was a better way.
<RubyPanther>
well, the ones with use cases
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<benzrf>
uh
<benzrf>
-.-
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<benzrf>
im not going to argue with you any more, neither of us are moving at all
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<h0rrorvacui>
benzrf: I don't think he is arguing.
<benzrf>
Ok
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<benzrf>
then ill stop arguing AT him
<h0rrorvacui>
benzrf: but if you would, think for a second what OOP is doing.
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<h0rrorvacui>
You could achieve something similar with OOP.
<benzrf>
oh yes oop is pretty awesome
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<benzrf>
h0rrorvacui: how so
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<h0rrorvacui>
objects can be used in place of methods
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<benzrf>
true
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<benzrf>
but that's just an unnecessary layer
<benzrf>
you're really using HOFs
<pw3>
linoge: I'm not real familiar with the mysql gem, but unless it provides some sort of abstraction for creating tables, I think you're just stuck using a query. If you were using something like Sequel, you might have some other options.
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<benzrf>
like how Runnables in java are really just functions
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<benzrf>
but wrapped in a nice objecty wrapper because java doesn't like things that arent objects
<RubyPanther>
presumably a block counts as a "function"
<benzrf>
yep
<benzrf>
any block method is HOF in my book
<benzrf>
^_^
<shevy>
coldmethod with old age comes wisdom
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<benzrf>
shevy: you can also become complacent in your ideas with old age tho
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<shevy>
benzrf oh I am, I find it insanely hard to learn new things :(
<benzrf>
of course i like that one more being young
<benzrf>
:>
<shevy>
I am like
<shevy>
where is cold beer...
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<shevy>
like Al from "married, with children"
<h0rrorvacui>
benzrf: I think you should look at this from a practical point of view.
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<benzrf>
h0rrorvacui: look at what exactly?
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<h0rrorvacui>
Everything
<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
that is gonna take a long time
<benzrf>
bah
<benzrf>
who needs pragmatism
<benzrf>
it's not like i have to program for a living or anything
<benzrf>
:D
<h0rrorvacui>
its only O(n) if you just look
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<benzrf>
but it's O(1) if I don't
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<h0rrorvacui>
But what does that get you?
<shevy>
42
<benzrf>
more time to force myself to finally start reading the dragon book
<h0rrorvacui>
exactlyl
<RubyPanther>
learn lots and lots of languages when you're young. Then when something new like python comes along, you can say, "COBOL already taught me how awful whitespace is" and avoid the whole boondoggle
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<shevy>
hey
<benzrf>
RubyPanther: excuse me but whitespace is ths hit
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<benzrf>
*the shit
<shevy>
he was not even born when python was coming "new" RubyPanther!
<RubyPanther>
benzrf: that just tells me you don't know COBOL
<benzrf>
ha
<benzrf>
I try not to learn truly awful languages
<shevy>
:)
<shevy>
we need lisbol
<shevy>
the merger of COBOL with Lisp
<benzrf>
god why
<shevy>
dont know really
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<shevy>
perhaps something good will come out of that
<RubyPanther>
COBOL is pass-by-value, so it is very transparent
<benzrf>
perbol
<benzrf>
the readability of perl and the beauty of cobol
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<benzrf>
and what a wonderful name!
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<RubyPanther>
I've embedded a Perl interpreter into a COBOL program before, modern-ish COBOL has a C interface
<RubyPanther>
That's how I survived Y2K
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<benzrf>
do you think the unix rollover is going to cause any real probs
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<RubyPanther>
I wish, I'm anxiously waiting for Time.at(0x7fffffff). sadly, most of the key libraries have already been patched. Everything will be storing it in lots of bits before it matters
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<RubyPanther>
Y2K was a once-in-a-century cash cow
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<benzrf>
why 0x7fffffff?
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<RubyPanther>
That's the shortest way to write it in Ruby for doing maximum expire on a HTTP cookie :o but why they chose that many bits for the entire epoch, I think it was just a practical kludge given historical memory constraints
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<benzrf>
ah, ok
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<benzrf>
i assumed it was in full bytes
<benzrf>
my bad >.>
<coldmethod>
hahah shevy
<coldmethod>
and experience too shevy
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<chrisbolton>
Need some help finding a value via nested hash. Need to loop through this type of hash (https://gist.github.com/Iknewthisguy/7408040), find the hash where 'name' has the word 'Trailer' in it and then return the value in the next level down 'source'?
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* coldmethod
really wants to keep reading but has a terrible sore throat
<chrisbolton>
Yeah, it's ugly.
<coldmethod>
so see ya all soon
<coldmethod>
have a good one
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<benzrf>
you too
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<RubyPanther>
my first home computer had 2K RAM and a BASIC ROM, and when I tried to write "hangman" and hit the memory limit, it just froze. And it didn't have any main memory, only auxiliary.
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<nobitanobi>
`format' is not allowed as an instance variable name" - I have tried changing the name, and I get the same error: http://pastebin.com/VH7ZhBW1
<benzrf>
wow
<shevy>
well the hash value can be accessed as hash['quicktime'][0]['name']
<benzrf>
my dad told me stories about the Dark Ages
<RubyPanther>
chrisbolton: you should parse it into an object structure, then you don't have to something kludgey like search and then grab the next value
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<chrisbolton>
RubyPanther: Can you elaborate? Mind you this is the data I get back from an API hit.
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<chrisbolton>
shevy: I can access the data. That's not a problem. It's accessing it in an intelligent way and taking what I want from it.
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<shevy>
nobitanobi can you not include the error in the pastie?
<shevy>
.instance_variable_get(:format))
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<nobitanobi>
shevy, what do you mean?
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<shevy>
the error you get
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<shevy>
ok did you change anything at all?
<shevy>
because I see you still have .instance_variable_get(:format))
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<RubyPanther>
chrisbolton: what I mean is to have classes like Movie and Source then when you get the data back, you construct a tree of related objects out of it
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<shevy>
so if you know the name of your variables, you could do this:
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<shevy>
name = :format; instance_variable_get('@'+name.to_s)
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<shevy>
or "@#{name}" should work as well, I just hate the {}
<nobitanobi>
shevy, I was thinking that since it's an instance variable, and we are using an 'instance_variable_get' the @ should not be necessary
<shevy>
yeah, dont ask me, I did not write this method :D
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<shevy>
perhaps there is some reason for having it the way it is right now
<RubyPanther>
chrisbolton: No, trying to juggle a data structure complex enough to make you unsure of the intelligent approach to take data out is way too exhausting. It is not at all exhaustive to create a class to represent your objects, it is just the basics
<shevy>
can CVS module in ruby be used to use another delimiter rather than '|' character?
<shevy>
nevermind
<shevy>
I simply .gsub
<h0rrorvacui>
:P
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<h0rrorvacui>
I was about to say just gsub if you don't mind the overhead of another iteration over it
<chrisbolton>
RubyPanther: Maybe I'm not totally understanding what your getting at. Would you mind giving me a brief example via gist or pointing me to some reading material?
<shevy>
h0rrorvacui yeah
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<chrisbolton>
RubyPanther: I would rather not write some quirky piece of code that handles these very particular API hits.
<nobitanobi>
shevy, btw. This is my first 'gem' I am trying to do :P
<shevy>
nobitanobi \o/
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<shevy>
nobitanobi dont forget documentation and one working example!
<nobitanobi>
it's an API wrapper
<nobitanobi>
I won't forget that hehe
<darkstar|>
any ideas anyone?
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<h0rrorvacui>
chrisbolton: It isn't quirky its what you do. You said the "structure" of the data, and well wouldn't it be easier to make sense of that thing if you could just do message passing to a class or struct?
<RubyPanther>
chrisbolton: I just mean basic OOP, you should have related objects instead of trying to traverse a big data structure full of strings. You should only be traversing it in order to parse it and create objects. Then you can do your searching across those objects, and the related things will end up right in your hands
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<RubyPanther>
Then you end up with movie.trailer.sources.collect{ ... } or something
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<chrisbolton>
RubyPanther & h0rrorvacui: Makes sense. I'm going to go tinker with it. Thanks for the insight.
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<RubyPanther>
darkstar|: it looks like you're outputting the object instead of making an image tag with like .thumbnail_url or something. I don't know their API so I'm not sure the correct way, but that looks like the mistake
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<benzrf>
sleeping now
<benzrf>
thanks for the conversation
<benzrf>
:}
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<zipper>
Could anyone direct me to a resource that teaches writing tests in ruby?
<zipper>
One which willbe like TDD from beginner
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<zipper>
but includes stucbs mocks and more stuff I don't know about
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<sevenseacat>
the rspec book?
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<nullsign>
yo..
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<nobitanobi>
I have added VCR and Webmock in the gem I am doing, but when running the test it still does HTTP request and is not creating any cassettes/fixtures. Here is the code:
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<shay->
jrhorn424: thanks! I am going to take a look on that.
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<jrhorn424>
np. you should probably thank apeiros, though. ;)
<shay->
ah right, didn't read this -.-' thanks apeiros :)
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<apeiros>
yw
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<shay->
apeiros: is the output returned "live" or just when the command finished? I really need it live, because the scripts are prompting for user input and I want to forward the prompts with ruby to the user in a nice stylish way. And then send the answer back to the script
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<apeiros>
shay-: with `` it blocks until the command is finished
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<apeiros>
with popen/spawn its just subject to whatever buffering is in place (e.g. by your command plus usually line buffering on rubys side)
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<bnagy>
sounds like this is going to end up with popen
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<apeiros>
line buffering on rubys side probably only if you use e.g. #gets.
<bnagy>
but in my experience these kind of wrappers are a little fiddly :<
<shay->
open3.popen looks quite good, but I want to make sure this fits for me, so i save some time =)
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<shay->
thanks for all the ansers, it is realyl grate to have some helping hands =)
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<bnagy>
if they're bash scripts, honestly - just port them
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<bnagy>
you'll make life easier instead of adding a ruby layer to things and making it even more complex
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<shay->
bnagy: my problem is that my colleagus want to write only bash scripts. and i want to provide a nice framework to execute this scripts in a nice way in the right order and parallel
<shay->
I tried to do that with bash, but this is horror -.-
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<bnagy>
well you should sort out your team
<bnagy>
but imho anyone still writing nontrivial stuff in bash is batshit insane
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<apeiros>
+1
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<bnagy>
getting threads working right is hard enough without IO issues :/
<shay->
bnagy: i told my boss but he's not listenting, I guess he likes fighting with shit :D
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<shay->
bnagy: but good to know that mostly all guys are sharing my opinion
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<apeiros>
anything which has even a single control structure in it should IMO not be written in bash.
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<Hanmac>
good that my libs are not thread safe so i mostly do not need to care about that ;P
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<apeiros>
hah, I love this - after "the DB asn an API", I now have "the file system as an API"
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<Hanmac>
apeiros: hm i dont get the reference ..
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<apeiros>
it wasn't a reference.
<apeiros>
some people abuse the database as an API
<apeiros>
(and the DB isn't really an API, so that's *bad*)
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<apeiros>
and in this current project, I have people who abuse the file system as an API
<apeiros>
(which is even worse than the DB)
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<apeiros>
"you have to copy those files in that order and we then poll for changes on the FS"
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<apeiros>
-- awesome
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<Hanmac>
apeiros: i am working at WE on an sfml-ruby binding, last time i added Audio stuff, and one of the classes can be marshal dumped ;P
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<jrhorn424>
I'm trying to get [:foo, :bar, :baz] to work as an arglist... what's the idiom for "dropping the brackets"?
<jrhorn424>
well, i guess that would be splat, right? but is there a way to post-fix splat?
<tobiasvl>
post-fix?
<bnagy>
drop brackets?
<tobiasvl>
he wants to splat the array
<tobiasvl>
but i don't understand what he means by post-fixing it
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<tobiasvl>
jrhorn424: do you need to put the * after the array instead of before? why?
<jrhorn424>
tobiasvl: n/m, i thought i tried this earlier and it didn't work, but it seems to work now: Struct.new(*[:foo, :bar, :baz])
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<tobiasvl>
yes, that should work fine
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<bnagy>
I have never in my life used this class
<jrhorn424>
tobiasvl: any idea why this won't work? where's the \n coming from? https://eval.in/65755
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<Hanmac>
PS: you need to be careful about to_sym … never EVER run it on user input, otherwise it can flood your system
<jrhorn424>
excellent! now i have a new test failure.
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<jrhorn424>
hanmac: didn't know that. it's in a private method, though. :)
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<bnagy>
doesn't matter where it is
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<bnagy>
also, ruby private methods are more figleaf than locked door
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<Hanmac>
jrhorn424: the problem: to_sym creates new symbols, and for sample 1000.times {|i| "abc#{i}".to_sym } creates 1000 symbols that cant be destroyed
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<DouweM>
hanmac: thanks for reminding me of that fact, just found a case where a param was #to_sym'ed. :)
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<jrhorn424>
hanmac: i see. i think for this problem, i'll be ok. i should be the only one to run this code, and I know my input.
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<jrhorn424>
i appreciate the advice though, I'd never thought of it.
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<workmad3>
mrfoto: a) #rubyonrails, b) content_tag(:whatever_tag, string)
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<lawnchair>
can someone suggest a good online ruby class (pay is fine)
<Hanmac>
Array is a good ruby class ;D
<Hanmac>
but Hash is good too
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<lawnchair>
grrr :)
<banisterfiend>
lawnchair codeschool
<lawnchair>
banisterfiend, thank you
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<rb2k>
Within a library: Having a base class with all the requires or putting the requires in the classes that need them. Your opinions? :)
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<ij>
Can I make enumerable methods outside of enumerator module?
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<Hanmac>
ij you mean the Enumerable module, and i dont think so, i mean the methods need to be defined in Enumerable to be Enumerable methods? oO
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<ij>
:[
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<Hanmac>
or how can they be Enumerable methods when you do not define them in Enumerable?
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<ij>
Well, arrays and hashes are enumerable.
<Hanmac>
they include the Enumerable module
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<apeiros>
rb2k: everything should require what it needs. that doesn't prohibit having a convenience file which contains all you need with a single require.
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<ij>
hanmac: What I wanted to find is: Kernel#to_enum
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<tobiasvl>
ITYM Object#to_enum ?
<tobiasvl>
anyway, ij, what exactly is it you want to do?
<ij>
I wanted to make an iterator.
<tobiasvl>
what's an "enumerable method"?
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<tobiasvl>
make what an iterator?
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<ij>
My object.
<finnomenon>
I grab mails with net/pop is there a good way of parsing them?
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<tobiasvl>
ij: okay. then you include Enumerable.
<ij>
Anyway, I did exactly what I wanted. I made an each method, then called to_enum on it, and then I'm able to do all the enumerable shenanigans with it.
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<ij>
No, I do not need to includ it.
<tobiasvl>
yes, you should include Enumerable
<ij>
And yes — you're right, Object#to_enum.
<tobiasvl>
in order to make your object enumerable
<tobiasvl>
making an each method and then calling to_enum on that is pretty hacky
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<ij>
tobiasvl: Did you try to actually use it, not just define, too?
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<tobiasvl>
yes, as i said, i was missing an argument
<tobiasvl>
but that's beside the point
<tobiasvl>
did you try to actually learn what Enumerable is, not just hack it into a specific use-case, too?
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<ij>
Well, enlighten me — what have I missed?
<tobiasvl>
ij: what exactly do you need? a class that can output an array that always should be [3,3,3]?
<tobiasvl>
or an enumerator?
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<tobiasvl>
if you can't see the difference between my suggestion and your suggestion, then... well
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<ij>
A class that returns an Emuerator, from the data it is generating.
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<tobiasvl>
your class generates the same data every time. it is not dynamic. it does return an enumerator – an array – but it is not an enumerator itself.
<tobiasvl>
if that's what you want, then that's nice
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<ij>
That's because this is a usecase.
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<ij>
The data comes from a file in the other case.
<tobiasvl>
<ij> I wanted to make an iterator.
<tobiasvl>
did you want that, or not?
<ij>
Why can't a file reader be an iterator?
<tobiasvl>
a file reader?
<tobiasvl>
sure it can
<tobiasvl>
anything can be an iterator if it includes Enumerable
<Hanmac>
File.foreach
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<Hanmac>
String for sample has iterator, but does not include Enumerable (because of the ambigous)
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<ij>
tobiasvl: Oh, well I found a way to do the samething without to_enum, but why in the earth couldn't you just show me how to do that instead of arguing?
<tobiasvl>
it's *not* the same thing. and i'm not arguing, i was trying to teach you what you originally asked. if that's not what you need, and your actual problem is in some file parsing code you haven't showed us, then okay.
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<tobiasvl>
because please forgive me if i thought you didn't understand what you wanted or what iterating/enumerating is based on the code you pasted: http://sprunge.us/IRVZ
<zipper>
I got this error when trying to install on ruby-rack arch
<zipper>
on arch
<zipper>
warning: directory permissions differ on /home/urbanslug/
<zipper>
filesystem: 700 package: 755
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<zipper>
do you suggest I chmod 755 /home/urbanslug
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<DanBoy>
777 ;p
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<IceDragon>
morning!
<DanBoy>
hellooo
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<IceDragon>
whats the latest?
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<Hanmac>
IceDragon depends, are you a "trunk"en user? ;P
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<IceDragon>
only for rubinius, sinec Arch has an official ruby package
<IceDragon>
:( I'm missing out on all the neat features aren't I?
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<Hanmac>
hm yes and now, there are some features in 2.1 but i dont think you will miss them
<IceDragon>
def returning a Symbol
<IceDragon>
I'm missing it
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<IceDragon>
Like really hard
<IceDragon>
;-;
<IceDragon>
I WANNA ABUSE IT
<IceDragon>
public module_function def my_awesome_func
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<Hanmac>
hm there might be some more changes before 2.1 is finish
<Hanmac>
(hm i try to contact charlie so that he can enable the "str"b flag)
<IceDragon>
b ?
<IceDragon>
binary?
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<IceDragon>
or bytes
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<Hanmac>
yeah there is a string suffix for binary strings … it is inside the ruby parser code, but currently disabled per Flag
<IceDragon>
by the way, are you experienced with embedding ruby into a C++ application?
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<IceDragon>
I have it all working, but I can't halt the interpreter..
<IceDragon>
:( I need to stop it from executing once the window is closed
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<Hanmac>
IceDragon: do you mean running the ruby interpreter inside an C++ app or using C++ libs inside ruby interpreter?
<IceDragon>
Ruby inside C++
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<Hanmac>
hm no not so much exterience … :/
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<Hanmac>
hm isnt that a nice job for mRuby? ;D
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<IceDragon>
;D I know
<IceDragon>
But I require MRI Ruby
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<DanBoy>
hey IceDragon
<DanBoy>
you use arch linux?
<IceDragon>
Yup :)
<IceDragon>
About 2 years now
<IceDragon>
It my first Linux too
<DanBoy>
its supposed to be with the idea of minimalistic
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<DanBoy>
right
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<DanBoy>
god i've been through them all by now
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<DanBoy>
so i guess you like it?
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<IceDragon>
Yup, its plenty fun
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<IceDragon>
I can rip apart my system and put it back together again with completely different packages
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<DanBoy>
what window manger do you use?
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<DanBoy>
i still use debian, right now, i can't stand any redhat based distros
<IceDragon>
I use a minimalistic KDE (ripped out all the useless extras)
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<DanBoy>
i got fluxbox going
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<IceDragon>
Any cool stuff in fluxbox?
<DanBoy>
but i was thinking arch linux + awesome wm might be cool for deving
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<DanBoy>
i dunno when i was 15 it was awesome
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<DanBoy>
probably better off just using a terminal now
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<IceDragon>
:O I don't use Awesome due to my small screen size
<DanBoy>
you tired it though?
<DanBoy>
tried
<DanBoy>
i haven't found the time
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<DanBoy>
i spent 14 years with linux, i got a mac now thats what i dev on but it seems apple is going crazy so sooner or later i might be going back to linux
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<DanBoy>
im on my linux box now though for irc
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<IceDragon>
:)
<IceDragon>
I used Windows for most of my life, though I never felt comfortable, too many limitations and fine print
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<DanBoy>
well i got redhat installed when i was 14
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<DanBoy>
i almost gave up
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<DanBoy>
until i got my 56k modem working
<IceDragon>
xD
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<DanBoy>
then i just used windows for games
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<IceDragon>
Well thats all Windows is good for
<IceDragon>
>_> Games.
<DanBoy>
ya if you can them to work lol
<DanBoy>
right now i just use an xbox 360 when i do get a chance to play a game
<IceDragon>
Well we can always play console games anyway
<DanBoy>
or old ps1 rpgs
* IceDragon
points at le 3DS and XBox-es
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<IceDragon>
Anyway, I moved to Linux, learned how to use the command line and the gnu toolbelt, and lived happily ever after
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<Kamuela>
shevy, alright, so i'll take a look at ruby-gnome. that'll mean gtk gets roped along into projects ya?
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<shevy>
adding require 'shoes' also does not fix that problem
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<shevy>
so as far as I am concerned, shoes is dead. they aren't even able to give me working examples in what they distribute...
<Kamuela>
shevy, i'm mostly just playing around anyway, so it's not bothersome for the moment
<mary5030>
i have a question this may be simple for some of you but i have a hard time figuring it out, I am planning on exporting a csv report but I have to format my data and turn them into an array of hashes before
<mary5030>
when i print my data this is what i get
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<shevy>
Kamuela yeah, it's not small for sure... there are bindings to atk pango cairo gtk2 gtk3 gdk_pixbux gio vte ...
<shevy>
but!
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<mary5030>
i am hoping to turn this data into array of hashes
<shevy>
the examples work for me
<shevy>
Kamuela I think ruby-qt would have been the best but it's like a one-man project that is not going anywhere much at all really
<mary5030>
with three title autonomous_system_name, cider, percentage
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<mary5030>
if anyone has time to look at my link i will really appreciate
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<shevy>
mary5030 can't you not give minimal example: (1) input -> (2) desired output
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<Kamuela>
shevy, is Ruby generally a smaller language than others, like python for example?
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<mary5030>
thanks will do that in my paste bin
<shevy>
Kamuela nah, ruby and python are quite similar... similar niches, syntax is not too hugely different
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<IceDragon>
shevy: You will be shot for saying that
<Kamuela>
shevy, I mean in terms of use, libraries, applications
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<shevy>
mary5030 the reason I suggest this is because, if you give a snippet like input->desired output, folks like hanmac will quickly find the solution!
<Kamuela>
shevy, like the number of people using ruby, the number of people actively developing gems, etc
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<shevy>
IceDragon well but it's kinda true... django/rails ... both can act as replacement for shell scripts... both function in large parts as glue between faster languages ...
<shevy>
Kamuela python has more folks
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<shevy>
Kamuela also one reason why they have more bindings :(
<IceDragon>
:(
<shevy>
though perhaps ruby is more complex than python when one wants to write bindings?
<IceDragon>
but Python is bad...
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<shevy>
so is PHP and TIOBE says it is better than python and ruby!
<IceDragon>
:x no...
<Kamuela>
shevy, I started with python, but I really prefer rails to django after trying django out for a week. funny story is i did finish a django project but have yet to finish a rails project lol
<IceDragon>
I had a side by side comparison of Language bindings
<shevy>
when android and other smartphones came up, the GUI binding projects in ruby almost died
<shevy>
FXRuby was discontinued
<shevy>
rdale no longer on #qtruby
<shevy>
wxruby pffft and so on and so forth
<shevy>
IceDragon hmm
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<Hanmac>
shevy i am like a blackbox-test, i only care about the input and the output ;P
<IceDragon>
adding to tabs instead of 1 to the values might be better though..
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<IceDragon>
:O
<mary5030>
thanks a bunch
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<mary5030>
!!you guys are awesome
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<Hanmac>
mary5030 there is a to csv method:: CSV.open("path/to/file.csv", "wb") do |csv| @all_stats.flat_map {|stat| stat.percentages_grouped_by_block.map {|key,value| [stat.autonomous_system.name,key,value] } }.each {|row| csv << row }
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<mary5030>
thanks
<mary5030>
i will consider it
<IceDragon>
hanmac strikes again!
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<IceDragon>
When I grow up, I wanna just like him!
<shevy>
what
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<shevy>
by dropping the english grammar?
<shevy>
O_o
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<Hanmac>
shevy 's nightmare becomes true ;P
<shevy>
well it comes at a price
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<shevy>
hanmac has perfect ruby skills but not perfect english skills
<IceDragon>
eh!?
<Hanmac>
shevy: like "equivalent exchange" ? ;P
<IceDragon>
correction then:
<IceDragon>
<IceDragon> When I grow up, I wanna just like him (ruby skills wise)!
<IceDragon>
alchemy is a rough thing
<IceDragon>
:( You can't have it all can ya?
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<shevy>
well you already started IceDragon
<Hanmac>
yeah someone got the reference :D
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<shevy>
I would have thought you dropped a "be" in your sentence IceDragon but it seems necessary to lose these skills when you want to reach hanmac-style perfection
<shevy>
gangnam style!
<IceDragon>
Dx
* IceDragon
fails an english
<shevy>
IceDragon did hanmac show you those awful cartoon videos?
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<IceDragon>
hanmac: where can I sign up to become your apprentice?
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<IceDragon>
*at
<IceDragon>
;-;
<IceDragon>
no shevy?
<shevy>
you just have to visit the links he shares every now and then
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<shevy>
but I warn you
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<shevy>
there will be colour explosion on the screen
<IceDragon>
*twitches*
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<shevy>
hanmac can you give an example?
<mary5030>
I was hoping to do a client side download of this csv i may have left that part our of my bin
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<shevy>
mary5030 well just structure the tasks, one after the other. the above should work for the parsing of given input yes? ok, if it works, we can proceed on the download-part ... not sure how you can obtain or get the information, is the URL available for us to use in a ruby script? if so, we can download it, even in pure ruby, with open() or open-uri functionality
<rhys>
nvm that. didn't realize where I was typing.
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<shevy>
hehe
<shevy>
more secrets!
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<rhys>
:)
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<maxiaojun>
what is exactly "no implicit conversion of Symbol into Integer"?
<apeiros>
>> [1,2,3][:foo]
<eval-in_>
apeiros => no implicit conversion of Symbol into Integer (TypeError) ... (https://eval.in/66023)
<rafi_>
anyone knows if sass+compass run on ruby 1.8.7?
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<apeiros>
you try to access an array index with a Symbol -> makes no sense
<apeiros>
(a Symbol is technically just a number - hence it has a bit a special message)
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<apeiros>
rafi_: I know this doesn't answer your question, but 1.8.7 is dead. EOL. move away from it.
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<maxiaojun>
puts param
<maxiaojun>
puts param[:result]
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<maxiaojun>
I have the following:
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<maxiaojun>
{:result=>false, :result_text=>"The image file you tried to attach is invalid."}
<maxiaojun>
no implicit conversion of Symbol into Integer
<rafi_>
apeiros: I'm deploying an app with both gems, and centos6 repos only have 1.8.7. I don't want to install rvm and stuff like that, just need sass & compass. :)
<apeiros>
maxiaojun: yes, that's not the line where your exception happens.
<apeiros>
param[:result] maybe - and that'd be what I told you above.
<Hanmac>
rafi_ if centos dont want to update its not our fault ;P
<maxiaojun>
why param[:result] can be invalid?
<rafi_>
yeah, not pointing fingers.. just trying to find the most light-weight installation path for those 2 gems
<maxiaojun>
isn't param a hash?
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<IceDragon>
maxiaojun: check it using #class
<IceDragon>
puts param.class
<apeiros>
maxiaojun: rails? there'd be params, not param
<apeiros>
no idea what param is, that'd be from you.
<maxiaojun>
not rails
<apeiros>
then *how on earth* could I know what *your* variable is?
<IceDragon>
maxiaojun: it might be an Array of Hashes
<IceDragon>
:O
<maxiaojun>
ok, that makes sense!
<platzhirsch>
When modules get included their methods can access instance variables, too. It seem, however, to be a bad practice doing that. Wouldn't it be better to move the required variables to the method's parameters?
<apeiros>
seriously… sometimes I'm baffled at how high people estimate my mental capabilities…
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<IceDragon>
platzhirsch, depends, what if its an mixin say like: Movable, it would access your @x, @y, @z variables to emulate motion in an Object
<platzhirsch>
IceDragon: something like that, yes
<maxiaojun>
i guess PP.pp is a better inspector...
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<Trudko_>
hi if i wanto use , as decimal places separator(so instead of 2.53 I would have 2,53) should I use number_with_precision(2.53 :separator => ',', :precision => 2) ?
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<IceDragon>
Trudko_: you could do: 2.53.to_s.gsub(".", ",")
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<IceDragon>
if you need precision you could do something like so: ("%0.2f" % 2.53).gsub(".", ",")
<Hanmac>
shevy with ruby you can give someone else the foot and he shots for you
<IceDragon>
:P
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<IceDragon>
shevy.instance_exec(&:shoot_in_foot)
<Hanmac>
"Ruby on Rails: You start to think about shooting yourself in the foot only to discover that someone has already shot your foot for you."
<IceDragon>
bang bang!
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<IceDragon>
"3rd Party Foot Shooting", now available in on rubygems.org
<Hanmac>
"JAVA After importing java.awt.right.foot.* and java.awt.gun.right.hand.*, and writing the classes and methods of those classes needed, you’ve forgotten what the hell you’re doing."
<IceDragon>
*on
<tobiasvl>
looool
<IceDragon>
keep em coming hanmac!
<Hanmac>
"Perl You shoot yourself in the foot, but nobody can understand how you did it. Six months later, neither can you."
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<lacko>
do you guys know a good ruby library for creating graphs?
<IceDragon>
hanmac: where are you finding all this?
<shevy>
instance_exec() scares me as well
<Hanmac>
"Python You try to shoot yourself in the foot but you just keep hitting the whitespace between your toes." << XD
<nobitanobi>
Anybody has used Minimagick here? I am unable to figure out how to create an image from scratch. Simple image with black background color.
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<ShellFu>
magic hmmm. black backgrounds... swamps. Alright ill play a game. Shall we sign into steam?
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<gr33n7007h>
Similar to flip-flops in electronic circuitry
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<gr33n7007h>
apeiros, perfect example
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<CaptainJet>
Ah I see
<CaptainJet>
That is actually very neat isn't it
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<CaptainJet>
I'm going to have to note this, thank you
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<elshaka>
have anyone here used the ruby gem for gnuplot?
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<elshaka>
i can run gunplot from the terminal and it works as it should generating a simple image file but the ruby doesn't seem to call gnuplot at all, all the provided examples do nothing
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<AleksEst>
can someone recommend cms written in ruby?
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<Bane>
Hello
<sn0wb1rd>
Hello
<AleksEst>
tobiasvl, elshaka thanks
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<Bane>
Do you guys deal with just Ruby or Ruby on rails too?
<Eiam>
#rubyonrails
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<Bane>
Tried it, no one is there.
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<Eiam>
Bane: there are 442 users there
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<elshaka>
Bane: there's a lot of people there
<Bane>
@Eiam allow me to re-attempt, thank you.
<sn0wb1rd>
I see lot of ppl there
<Bane>
Woops, how do you @ someone again?
<tobiasvl>
just type their name
<Bane>
thanks.
<tobiasvl>
Bane
<havenwood>
and hit tab
<elshaka>
tab to autocomplete
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<shevy>
autocomplete for hitting
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<samfisher>
any idea what this error is? usr/lib/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems/specification.rb:1637:in `raise_if_conflicts': Unable to activate activemodel-4.0.0, because activesupport-4.0.1 conflicts with activesupport (= 4.0.0) (Gem::LoadError)
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<samfisher>
i already installed activesupport-4.0.1
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<waxjar>
i think one of your dependencies has active support 4.0.0 as a dependency
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<shevy>
samfisher in the .gemspec file there is probably a specific version wanted
<samfisher>
shevy: so how do I approach this? do i correct the .gemspec?
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<shevy>
hmm
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<shevy>
you could try and see if that works
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<shevy>
try to find .add_dependency 'activesupport' ... or 'activemodel' in it
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<shevy>
perhaps it can work if you change it to >=
<shevy>
on the other hand, perhaps the author was absolutely sure that it won't work :\
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<shevy>
what does gem list --local say?
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<MrZYX>
samfisher: I'd say use bundler
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<platzhirsch>
well, I guess a stag rather bells
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<mary5030>
have been working on generating a csv report and allowing user to donwload it from the ui, I get error from the ui no such route exist, if anyone has a chance to take a look at my code I have put the sameple input data from my model and my controller methods in this link
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<lucyw>
hey, how do I run ruby on debian? I know it's already installed, but just typing "ruby" or "ruby 1.9.2" into the command line freezes it up.
<Jamo>
lucyw: how about "ruby -v"
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<DanBoy>
which ruby
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<DanBoy>
im on debian now
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<DanBoy>
it didn't come with it
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<Jamo>
afaik when you run just ruby -command it reads stdin, and when receiving EOF (ctrl-D) it will evaluate code written in stdin
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<lucyw>
DanBoy: Ruby 1.9.2, and I already have it installed
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<DanBoy>
you apt-get it?
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<h0rrorvacui>
lucyw: type irb
<h0rrorvacui>
I thinke you want the repl
<h0rrorvacui>
tink*
<h0rrorvacui>
think*
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<lucyw>
yes, and apparently already had it from a previous user
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<DanBoy>
ya then it didn't come with it
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<DanBoy>
you got it yourself
<DanBoy>
add a shebang line to the file you want to run
<DanBoy>
and chmod +x file.rb
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<DanBoy>
then you can just ./file.rb
<h0rrorvacui>
or issue ruby filename.rb :P
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<DanBoy>
shebang line is cooler :P
<h0rrorvacui>
Yeah
<lucyw>
h0rrorvacui: is that a ruby environment that opens, though? My endgame here is opening a program called "compass" which is installed using Ruby
<DanBoy>
pffffttt
<h0rrorvacui>
ohh no
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<Xeago>
lucyw: the compass gem installs a binary, compass
<h0rrorvacui>
You need to install it
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<Xeago>
so just have the shebang line #!/usr/bin/env compass
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<DanBoy>
should try and use rvm dude
<Xeago>
the error message you get if compass is not installed is entirely sane
<Xeago>
DanBoy: no?
<lucyw>
ERROR: gem update --system is disabled on Debian, because it will overwrite the content of the rubygems Debian package, and might break your Debian system in subtle ways. The Debian-supported way to update rubygems is through apt-get, using Debian official repositories.
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<Xeago>
what is wrong with env: foobar: No such file or directory?
<h0rrorvacui>
yeah ...
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<h0rrorvacui>
You should get rvm or rbenv
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<havenwood>
chruby
<h0rrorvacui>
or chruby
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<havenwood>
:P
<DanBoy>
well it keeps things neat
<DanBoy>
instead of messing with the entire system
<Xeago>
I install ruby with ruby-install, and then set up the paths properly in my environment
<Xeago>
h0rrorvacui: gemsets are a broken concept imo
<DanBoy>
well if you got 3 different rubies 1.8, 1.9 ,2.0 all with their own gemsets
<DanBoy>
rvm is great
<h0rrorvacui>
Xeago: How so? I'm open to change :P
<Xeago>
bundler
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<h0rrorvacui>
Yeah but bundler is app specific
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<DanBoy>
rails apps normally
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<DanBoy>
whatever it depends on your needs, i just like rvm its convenient
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<h0rrorvacui>
You still have to worry about gem conflicts. Bundler is just gem dependencies management not environment management really.
<h0rrorvacui>
But as apps move to bundler that lessens
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<Xeago>
h0rrorvacui: when would I need to wrorry about gem conflicts?
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<DanBoy>
multiple projects on the same machine
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<h0rrorvacui>
Xeago: You may not. I do with a lot of projects on my dev machine.
<havenwood>
h0rrorvacui: an alternative to rvm is to install Rubies with ruby-install, switch Rubies with chruby and switch gems with chgems.
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<havenwood>
i use ruby-install and chruby but not chgems
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<h0rrorvacui>
havenwood: I have to run each app in its version simultaneously, I don't know how to do that as easily with chruby and chgems
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<h0rrorvacui>
I'll look into it though, I hate the hackish ways rvm and rbenv do it
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<DanBoy>
well on my mac i don't want to mess with the OS the way it came from the factory, so rvm + macports is what i use
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<DanBoy>
linux can be a different story
<DanBoy>
but i still use rvm on it
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<jrhorn424>
n/m forgot to add pry to gemfile
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<mary5030>
would someone please look at my paste and see where I am going wrong I have posted my input and desired out put and my controller code, i am hoping to generate a csv report, i am getting an error 0 argument for 1 around csv_data =
<louism2wash>
Hey guys, quick question regarding threads in MRI. Just trying to understand if this is an accurate statement: "a machine running a single ruby process will execute concurrent requests to the application by splitting each request into it's own thread and the interpreter will then switch between threads until execution is complete."
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<MrZYX>
louism2wash: in case you use a application server like puma
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<MrZYX>
this isn't inherently build into ruby or rack/cgi/fcgi
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<louism2wash>
MrZYX: I am using rack and passenger which, to the best of my knowledge, use this implementation.
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<MrZYX>
I'm actually not sure if passenger uses a thread or a process pool
<MrZYX>
I kinda thought it was a process pool
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<louism2wash>
MrZYX: I think it is a process pool
<michagogo|cloud>
Anyone have any ideas how I'd run a 3-billion line ruby script?
<MrZYX>
also pretty sure it's a pool, so it doesn't spawn a new one for each request
<DouweM>
michagogo|cloud: :|
<louism2wash>
MrZYX: I guess I'm trying to understand what the difference is
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<MrZYX>
you have more than one process floating around which takes the request via some IPC means, processes it and serves the reply
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<MrZYX>
usually you fork them of a main process
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<MrZYX>
so maybe research process forking, that might make it clear for you
<diegoviola>
i'm really tired of the client i'm working with, he's very pushy and desperate, i'm not sure why but i get the feeling that he expects me to work on weekends and stuff, asking me if a feature is already complete in monday
<diegoviola>
how do you folks deal with crap like this
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<Diranged>
hey, i need a quick method for turning a hash into a flat array of key=value pairs..
<dtrott>
A bit of a weird one; any idea why two Mac laptops (pretty clean Mavericks install) roughly equal spec, on the same wifi doing (gem install berkshelf) after the gem is already installed, one takes ~12 seconds the other 5 minutes ?
<MrZYX>
Diranged: Hash#to_a
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<MrZYX>
.flatten(1)
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<Diranged>
hmm ok thats close.. but if my hash has embedded hashes inside of it, they don't seem to convert the same way.. hrmm. but this should get me there
<Diranged>
thanks
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<TTilus>
diegoviola: i just ignore the crap and try to focus on the next most important thing (to customer)
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<diegoviola>
TTilus: but what you do when the customer is being too pushy?
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<diegoviola>
i have a feeling i'll get fired soon, not sure if i should just walk away or wait to get fired
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<TTilus>
diegoviola: it is good to be explicit on the way you work
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<TTilus>
diegoviola: have you asked feelings wrt deliverables and methods?
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<dtrott>
diegoviola: Do you think you will get paid for the work you have done ?
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<diegoviola>
if by explicit you mean "it'll be done when it's done" or "asking me every day doesn't make it happen any faster" then yeah, i haven't really tell the client that yet
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<diegoviola>
but i'm sick of his daily questions: "how's it going?" and the other 20 questions that i get daily
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<TTilus>
diegoviola: that and "i workx roughly X hours a week and not on weekends"
<dtrott>
diegoviola: The trick there is to get in front of the question send an email each morning with the status and the answer to the 20 questions.
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<diegoviola>
TTilus: i already got paid this month
<TTilus>
diegoviola: and "garden doesnt grow any faster with more gardeners or tighter schedules"
<diegoviola>
TTilus: i've only been 1 month with his project
<dtrott>
When someone asks you just open the email and read it to them ...
<TTilus>
dtrott: it sounds a bit unhealthy if you need to do that :) (but sometimes you will)
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<diegoviola>
i've only worked with him for 1 month, and he already put me to work in 2 projects, one is a rails 4 app, and the other one is a rails 3.2.x app, i still don't know his code enough because it's only one month since we are working together
<diegoviola>
but i'm already kind of familiar with his projects
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<diegoviola>
i delivered some features in that timeframe
<diegoviola>
but i get a feeling i'm being exploited
<diegoviola>
he's too pushy, ffs
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<h0rrorvacui>
diegoviola: I think the customer might be worried you are not making progress so just make an effort to give the customer status updates.
<diegoviola>
i can't take a project and be productive the same day, f*ck that
<TTilus>
diegoviola: does the pushing get under your skin or can you keep prof attitude
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<dtrott>
Exploited just comes down to hourly rate (salary / hours worked per week).
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<diegoviola>
h0rrorvacui: yes i think he might be worried about that also
<diegoviola>
TTilus: it gets under my skin but i try to be as polite as possible
<TTilus>
diegoviola: would you feel bad to ask?
<diegoviola>
TTilus: feel bad to ask about what?
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<TTilus>
diegoviola: about the worries
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<diegoviola>
TTilus: i know he is worried about my performance, and i'm not saying i've been the most performant developer on the team
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<diegoviola>
he probably wants me to deliver a lot more in a month, but i'm only starting
<diegoviola>
i could ask sure
<diegoviola>
wouldn't feel bad at all
<TTilus>
diegoviola: then go ask
<diegoviola>
ok
<diegoviola>
ty
<h0rrorvacui>
diegoviola: is this your first job?
<diegoviola>
h0rrorvacui: not at all
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<h0rrorvacui>
okay I thought perhaps he was making an attempt to mentor
<diegoviola>
h0rrorvacui: before this job i was also working on a rails app and that experience has been great
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<TTilus>
diegoviola: being sincere and showing that you are aware of things around you shows real professionality
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<diegoviola>
TTilus: ok
<diegoviola>
thanks for the advice guys :)
<TTilus>
np
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<louism2wash>
MrZYX: So a process is just an execution context that is handled by the interpreter… so if you have multiple processes and a single Ruby instance (which I believe is the only option with MRI), the vm will execute those processes via some form of context switching? Each process taking turns working with the interpreter until their is a blocking operation of the process completes?
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<louism2wash>
*or the process is complete?
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<diegoviola>
before this job i was working also on a few rails applications with another programmer, but that programmer understood that things could take some time, we were working together on features, nobody put any stress on each other and i felt i could be much more productive that way
<diegoviola>
it was fun, i really enjoying working on that project
<diegoviola>
enjoyed*
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<h0rrorvacui>
diegoviola: why do you feel you are less productive this time around?
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<diegoviola>
h0rrorvacui: i don't know, i'm not blaming my employer, but i also have to learn a few things and i made that clear to him, that sometimes i need time to figure things on my own and learn as i go
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<TTilus>
louism2wash: ruby process is OS process
<diegoviola>
h0rrorvacui: he seemed fine by that but then after 1-2 days he will send me an email atelling me "how's going?" or some angry questions like "what i'm paying you is what i pay to my other developers", etc
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<TTilus>
louism2wash: one ruby vm = one process
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<louism2wash>
TTilus: sorry, butchering the terminology :)
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<diegoviola>
h0rrorvacui: so the hostile environment perhaps causes some of that stress on me, or i don't know
<TTilus>
diegoviola: how often do you communicate about your status?
<h0rrorvacui>
diegoviola: okay then try to focus on low hanging fruit in the mean time. Then use the rest of the time getting up to speed quickly.
<diegoviola>
TTilus: as soon as i push something to gh i send him an email
<diegoviola>
h0rrorvacui: 2-3 times a week, if not more
<diegoviola>
err
<diegoviola>
that was for TTilus
<TTilus>
diegoviola: i personally try not to skip any day without communicating
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<louism2wash>
TTilus: But does it sound like I am on the right track? The vm, which is run by the Ruby OS process, takes turns executing the processes I have created in my code via context-switching?
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<TTilus>
per commit would be too much as i commit pretty ofen
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<h0rrorvacui>
diegoviola: also how is git work flow vs the other developers?
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<TTilus>
louism2wash: OS (Windows, OSX, whatnot) handles switching bw processes
<h0rrorvacui>
Are you pushing as much as them? He maybe using that as an indicator of your work.
<TTilus>
louism2wash: otherwise roughly correct
<louism2wash>
TTilus: thanks for the clarification
<TTilus>
louism2wash: it that your home assignment or something?
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<louism2wash>
TTilus: no, just trying to better understand exactly what is happening at a lower level
<diegoviola>
h0rrorvacui: i haven't worked that closely with the other devs yet, but i've been creating separate branches for the individual tasks i've been working with, then merging them into master
<TTilus>
louism2wash: cant comment on you being on right track because i dont know what you are doing
<TTilus>
louism2wash: and im too lazy to skim log
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<louism2wash>
TTilus: I was just trying to understand the concept of Ruby not being multi-threaded but then reading blogs saying the Ruby is "sort-of" multi-threaded because of processes
<TTilus>
louism2wash: forget about processes
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<h0rrorvacui>
TTilus: why do that?
<louism2wash>
TTilus: yeah, why?
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<louism2wash>
now I want to pull my hair out
<TTilus>
louism2wash: ruby has threads, MRI threads dont run concurrently, but e.g. jruby threads do
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<h0rrorvacui>
there is nothing wrong with using processes; forking is powerful and works great now that CoW friendly child processes exist.
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<TTilus>
louism2wash: if you want to understand why they say ruby is only sort of multithreaded, then talking about proceses is only gonna mix you up
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<TTilus>
h0rrorvacui: im not arguing against that
<TTilus>
h0rrorvacui: louism2wash told "I was just trying to understand the concept of Ruby not being multi-threaded" and im trying to help
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<h0rrorvacui>
I see I thought you were saying to forget about using them.
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<h0rrorvacui>
I see now that you were only trying to clarify
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<TTilus>
louism2wash: google for "concurrency is not parallellism"
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<TTilus>
louism2wash: then you have the tools to understand whats going on inside mri vs. jruby
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<TTilus>
louism2wash: both have threads, mri vm runs just one at a time and jruby vm (potentially) runs several (utilizing more than one cpu core)
<h0rrorvacui>
Has a lot of information on concurrency
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<h0rrorvacui>
look up articles explaining the GIL and you may find more answers too
<h0rrorvacui>
Just remember things have changed a lot over the span of 1.8 - 2.0 when reading those articles
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<mathrick>
hi, how should I structure my code to have a Config class with default settings that is then overriden by a user-supplied config.rb? I tried this, but I get errors which I don't quite get: https://gist.github.com/mathrick/7421944
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<mathrick>
the extend self is an idiom I've seen used elsewhere, but clearly I didn't get it completely
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<h0rrorvacui>
louism2wash: also check out http://www.rubini.us for a neat Ruby implementation.
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<louism2wash>
Thanks everyone for the help
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<mathrick>
any comments regarding my code?
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<h0rrorvacui>
mathrick: you are extending a class
<mathrick>
h0rrorvacui: isn't that what extend is for?
<mathrick>
that's what I've seen it used for
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