havenwood changed the topic of #ruby to: Rules & more: https://ruby-community.com || Ruby 2.4.2, 2.3.5 & 2.2.8: https://www.ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text to: https://gist.github.com || Rails questions? Ask in: #RubyOnRails || Logs: https://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby || Books: https://goo.gl/wpGhoQ
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<soulisson> Hi, in ruby a block starts with the "do" keyword, right?
<SeepingN> or {
<soulisson> SeepingN: so do and "{" are considered part of the block from the syntax point of view?
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<basket> soulisson: Why do you ask?
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<soulisson> basket: just to know
<basket> soulisson: do/{ and end/} are to a block as [ and ] are to an array
<soulisson> hmm, ok
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<soulisson> basket: so the answer for me is yes, because without those, we wouldn't have a block
<SeepingN> blockless
<soulisson> :)
<basket> Right
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<soulisson> basket: I just said that like that I guess someone might disagree
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<baweaver> Na, that one's fairly straightforward
<soulisson> baweaver: what do you mean?
<baweaver> There's not really anything to disagree on
<soulisson> baweaver: ok, do you agree with what I said earlier
<soulisson> ?
<baweaver> ....you realize you're running circles here right?
<soulisson> baweaver: probably, I'm not right in my mind :)
<baweaver> Blocks are either `do ... end` or `{ ... }` or passed in directly to the method with an `&`
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<soulisson> baweaver: cool, this is clear
<baweaver> >> double = -> x { x * 2 }; [1,2,3].map(&double)
<ruby[bot]> baweaver: # => [2, 4, 6] (https://eval.in/908783)
<pragmatism> >> i = 1
<pragmatism> >> 1+1
<pragmatism> hmm
<pragmatism> Why won't it eval?
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<soulisson> :)
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<baweaver> you have to be registered / logged in
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<pragmatism> gotcha, ty
<baweaver> I guess authenticated would be the more proper term
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<chiggins> Are there any good Gems out there for doing conversions between various cryptocurrancies?
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<pragmatism> Not that I'm aware of. That would be a pretty easy scraper to write though
<pragmatism> good idea for an intro project
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<chiggins> Working like a charm for the most part :)
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<pragmatism> nice!
<pragmatism> That's legit.
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<basket> >> [1, 2, 3].reject &:even?
<ruby[bot]> basket: # => [1, 3] (https://eval.in/908784)
<basket> neat
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<argoneus> hello
<argoneus> are there any special requirements to overriding []=? for some reason my program doesn't work as intended and I can't figure out why
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<argoneus> my signature is def []=(*args), but for some reason when I do Grid[x] = 5 it doesn't get called at all
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<argoneus> any idea why this could be?
<argoneus> oh, I'm an idiot
<argoneus> bla[x][y] is different from bla[x, y]
<argoneus> good to know
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<ineb> argoneus: yes, use #dig if you want. bla.dig(x,y) is bla[x][y]
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<stan> can anyone recommend a gem/library/code to round a DateTime object to the nearest minute?
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<darix> stan: check active_support maybe?
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<dminuoso> ineb: Considering that ActiveSupport sets this on Hash rather than Object, that generally does not hold true.
<dminuoso> Also digf short circuits.
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<dminuoso> bla.dig(x,y) is bla&.[](x)&.[](y)
<dminuoso> For Hash anyway when AS is loaded.
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<coolno1> how to run a thin ruby server in threaded mode
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<coolno1> I have this code snippet and I want to make it multithreaded
<coolno1> thin_server = Thin::Server.new('127.0.0.1', config.port, signals: false)
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<coolno1> I can see that only way is to pass --threaded
<coolno1> How can I do the same for above
<coolno1> code spet
<coolno1> snippet
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<TomyLobo> coolno1, i dont know, have you read the help for Thin::Server's initializer?
<TomyLobo> rubydoc, regular documentation
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<dminuoso> havenwood, have you ever wondered why functional programming is not "the thing" to do in India?
<dminuoso> I have.
<dminuoso> Didn't find an answer.
<baweaver> Same reason it isn't in the states
<baweaver> Schools teach Java, and most engineers are school to job, no extras
<dminuoso> "are school to job"?
<baweaver> They graduate school, get one job, stay there
<kyle__> baweaver: Because it can be hellish to debug, most languages don't lend themselves towards it, and the need for side-effects means every language makes different choices for how pure it's FP is?
<kyle__> s/it's/its/
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<baweaver> AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean
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* kyle__ shudders
<dminuoso> baweaver, dont get me started.
<dminuoso> baweaver, I've managed to peek inside the Java code this company has been writing for our CRM tool. It's mindboggingly silly what kind of... "patterns".. they use.
<baweaver> hellish to debug is a side-effect of crap programming
<dminuoso> At times I wonder whether they just intentionally use sillily layered patterns to create the illusion of "complicated programs" to justify their high salaries.
<baweaver> Functional Programming is not inherently hard to debug
<dminuoso> Unless it is evaluated lazily.
<dminuoso> Then things get interesting. ;-)
<baweaver> you're just used to debugging in another paradigm
<kyle__> baweaver: Granted, but the set of skills to know what is good and what isn't in imperative programming are different than in functional.
<kyle__> dminuoso: lazy evaluation is amazingly fun :) Or at least, in haskell it is.
<baweaver> See "debugging in another paradigm"
* kyle__ agrees
* kyle__ wants to get back to haskell at some point.
<dminuoso> kyle__, indeed. Ive come to the conclusion that Haskell is incredibly easy to pick up. The main difficulty is not that the language is difficult, its just that its very *different*
<baweaver> of course a Java person will hate Haskell off the bat. It's completely antithetical to everything they know, especially around debugging.
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<baweaver> So the further you learned into that camp the harder it is to see the other side clearly
<baweaver> conversely true as well
<baweaver> Haskell programmers tend to hate Java
<dminuoso> kyle__, I just started to step into dependent types (yes you can have them in Haskell too!). It made me wonder how I could ever live without them.
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<baweaver> Ruby is pretty well in the gateway drug category of FP
<baweaver> Same with Javascript
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<kyle__> dependent types?
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<dminuoso> Yes.
<kyle__> I've never heard of those.... wonder if it's one of those things I've used and didn't know the right name for.
<dminuoso> kyle__, for example: zipWith (+) [1] [1,2]
<dminuoso> this will type check.
<dminuoso> It really shouldn't.
<dminuoso> Its the reason why things like head and tail seem to universally useful but are really bad to use
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<dminuoso> Its very unlikely you have "accidentally used dependent types in Haskell". Formally they are not supported, and it takes some encouragement to gain them
<baweaver> Then again dminuoso is bent on making Ruby into Haskell so...
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<dminuoso> kyle__, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNa3MMbhwS4 check this out.
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<matejz> hey guys
<baweaver> alo
<JaccoP> hello
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<RickHull> dminuoso: I think java hell comes from a side effect of java handcuffs. There is so much boilerplate and restrictions on expression that it's hard to *design* programs
<RickHull> instead they use an accretion and agglomeration model
<RickHull> a little bit of code doesn't do very much, and we need to do more, so we add more code
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<RickHull> take fresh grads from a degree mill, and they have little design sense to start with -- little ability to question "is this the right approach?"
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<dminuoso> RickHull, when I started teaching ruby to a 14 year old kid from a friend last week, he ended up making mistakes like: a + b = c ["Why doesn't c contain the sum? Ive just stated that they are equal"]
<dminuoso> Think I need to pull the plug on Ruby and teach him Prolog.
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<RickHull> it's a great way to get a holistic design perspective
<dminuoso> Or maybe Haskell
<JaccoP> man
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<JaccoP> that was a nice challenge for me
<RickHull> but this example is just a confusion of assignment with definitional equality :)
<JaccoP> it´s supposed to be == huh
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<dminuoso> RickHull, honestly most math teachers dont understand the difference between reduction and equality either
<dminuoso> for example: 1 + 3 is definitely not equal to 4.
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<RickHull> interesting, haven't considered that perspective
<dminuoso> they may be extensionally equivalent in some context.
<RickHull> i could see that it reduces to 4
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<RickHull> what about 1x + 3x = 4y ?
<RickHull> or 1x + 3x = 4x
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<dminuoso> RickHull, Im not talking about the = sign. Math is generally heavily overloaded, so characters always mean different things in different contexts.
<Algebr> How can I monkey patch stdout's put?
<dminuoso> But if the teacher said "they are both equal" then he's just straight lying to you.
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<dminuoso> I mean mostly its fine. But it does limit your way of thinking.
<JaccoP> I´m confused
<JaccoP> since when does 1 + 3 not equal 4 anymore
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<RickHull> Algebr: are you calling e.g. $stdout.puts ?
<dminuoso> JaccoP, one is an addition of two numbers, one is a number. A simple way of seeing how they are not the same, is write a parser to generate a CST
<dminuoso> And compare the CST for both expressions (1 + 3) and (4)
<dminuoso> Those two trees will be different.
<JaccoP> that makes sense
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<Algebr> yea, like I want to keep a handle on the original puts but still be able to provide my own implemtnation
<RickHull> Algebr: you can `def $stdout.puts` or `class IO; def puts`
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<RickHull> dminuoso: by that logic, x + y = z shows no equality?
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<dminuoso> RickHull, in the context of algebras it shows extensional equivalence.
<dminuoso> or its a statement "the reduction of both produce values that are equal to one another"
<RickHull> i think that's what most people mean by equality, when they are doing algebra
<Algebr> RickHull: how do I hold onto the original puts?
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<dminuoso> RickHull, when I said algebras, Im using a different far more generalized notion.
<RickHull> Algebr: how would you like to call it?
<Algebr> as a global variable
<dminuoso> RickHull, so the thing you actually mean when you write 1 + 3 = 4 is: <dminuoso> or its a statement "the reduction of both produce values that are equal to one another"
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<Algebr> I tried, $org = $stdout.puts, and then $org("Original given input") but that caused a error
<dminuoso> RickHull, how about this. What is equality?
<JaccoP> ow
<JaccoP> my head
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<RickHull> it depends on context, but when I learned algebra, we can say that z equals y + x
<RickHull> and with some more equalities
<dminuoso> RickHull, no please give me a definition what equality means.
<RickHull> we can pin down a value for z
<dminuoso> Without looking it up
<RickHull> what for?
<dminuoso> Just do it, because if we use the word "equality" and argue about it, we should define it first.
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<RickHull> I'm not arguing -- which definition do you have in mind?
<dminuoso> The only one that is sound: Equality is a relation that an object only has with itself.
<baweaver> Algebr: this sounds like a bad idea
<RickHull> dminuoso: that sounds like identity
<baweaver> Literally just open another IO stream and call puts on it instead
<dminuoso> RickHull, identity has a different notion altogether.
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<dminuoso> RickHull, unless you're talking about identity relation.
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<RickHull> if z represents a variable with an unknown value, and we know z's value equals the arithmetic sum of x and y
<RickHull> then what is an object?
<Algebr> RickHull: I also tried: org = method(:$stdout.puts), and then tried calling org but got `<main>': private method `puts' called for :$stdout:Symbol (NoMethodError)
<RickHull> and what is an equality in this sense, compared to an inequality, perhaps
<dminuoso> RickHull, we need to define what a relation is then..
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<RickHull> sure -- I'm interested in the theory -- but I don't think math teachers are lying when they talk about equalities like x + y = z
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<dminuoso> RickHull, for a set S and T, a relation α is a subset of S x T.
<RickHull> I believe these are traditionally known as equalities, particularly when we have several of them, and several variables of unknown value
<RickHull> and we combine them with algebra and arithmetic in order to discover or pin down the value of a variable
<dminuoso> RickHull, a good example to see the difference between equality and extensional equivalence is pure functions.
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<RickHull> wikipedia says there are 3 types of equality in math: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_(mathematics)
<RickHull> symbols, sets, and expressions
<ryakh> Is there any way to implement a method (foo_method from my example) so following can be achieved? https://pastebin.com/rwi9BSNa
<ruby[bot]> ryakh: we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, it loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting. Please use https://gist.github.com
<zanoni> why wouldn't this work? I'm searching through values in hash to find the key the value exists in - but nada 'myhash.find { |k,v| v =~/page=7/} `
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<RickHull> >> { 1 => 2, three: :four }.find { |k, v| v.is_a? Symbol }
<ruby[bot]> RickHull: # => [:three, :four] (https://eval.in/909513)
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<zanoni> no i need to use regex, a value would contain that fragment
<RickHull> ryakh: your method will be called when the class is evaluated, not when Foo is instantiated
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<RickHull> zanoni: then I guess it's not matching
<kyle__> baweaver: 6~/buffer 31
<kyle__> ack, sorry
<zanoni> i mean it worked in a quick repl, but no now in the app
<RickHull> zanoni: construct a hash that you know will match. confirm the expected behavior. it sounds like you've already done this
<zanoni> yep
<RickHull> if it doesn't work in the app, then the hash doesn't have a matching value
<zanoni> i mean regex could be a fragment right?
<RickHull> a fragment of what?
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<zanoni> of the entire value i'm looking for
<RickHull> open up irb
<RickHull> construct a value
<RickHull> try your match
<Brondius> Is there a reason there are no Ruby packages available for the Atom text editor?
<RickHull> zanoni: and yes, a regex need not match an entire string
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<zanoni> ok, i'll go back to irb with it,thanks!
<RickHull> >> 'foobar'.match %r{.}
<ruby[bot]> RickHull: # => #<MatchData "f"> (https://eval.in/909514)
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<tobiasvl> Brondius: I'm not familiar with Atom, what would a Ruby package for Atom do?
<RickHull> I think Atom is github's web editor
<RickHull> based on Electron?
<Brondius> tobiasvl there are packages for Atom in tons of languages that make writing whatever it is easier. I just saw nothing for Ruby
<RickHull> i don't know what a "ruby package" would be for this
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<tobiasvl> Brondius: OK, so plugins that make Atom into an IDE of sorts for different languages?
<RickHull> i would think that ruby is one of the first languages supported, out-of-the-box
<Brondius> Auto completes and other such things for Python and stuff
<Brondius> Correct, tobiasvl
<Brondius> Huh. Weird. Searching from within the client shows nothing. My bad.
<Brondius> Thanks :)
<tobiasvl> I just googled "atom ruby"
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<dminuoso> 21:11 Brondius | Huh. Weird. Searching from within the client shows nothing. My bad.
<dminuoso> Thats very reassuring.
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<darix> apple made a good evening even better
<darix> :D
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<baweaver> darix: that's the topic of the day in ruby-offtopic
<darix> topic of the day already? it is just 2.5hours old!
<baweaver> you overestimate the amount of interesting content in offtopic
<darix> aha
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<Algebr> I found alias_method, and I use it as alias_method :a, :b but how can I use it when I want to get it on $stderr.puts?
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<prutheus> Hey. I have a 10.times do |i| ... end block
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<prutheus> I need to do a retry when i == 3
<prutheus> but its an invalid retry there...how to retry in such block?
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<RickHull> prutheus: retry is for exception handling
<RickHull> please paste a code example, even if it's not behaving how you want
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<prutheus> solved it
<prutheus> just mapped the content of the loop inside a begin block and raises at some point an exception which can retry then
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<gheegh> hey all, anyone know of a good tool to do this: https://eval.in/909535 basically, i want to define a template of a string, and extract data from that string using that template.. (like npm-router does)
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<RickHull> gheegh: regex
<RickHull> much more general purpose than that but well capable
<cschneid_> I need to write a very-high-performance mini parser, are there any guides on spinning over medium length strings, and avoiding allocations? Logically I can do stuff like `input.split(" ").first` and have a case statement on that, but that allocates at least 2 strings, and I need to skim until some known points in the middle of the string as well
<cschneid_> basically, what in string manipulation & lookup actually allocates
<RickHull> cschneid_: VHP in ruby seems ...
<RickHull> are you concerned about object allocation or memory?
<cschneid_> RickHull: allocation & memory pressure
<cschneid_> gc time, not overall usage
<RickHull> object allocation determines gc stuff
<gheegh> RickHull: I'm trying ot build something more generic, editable.. than building Regex expressions
<RickHull> gheegh: are you building such a tool? or looking for an existing one?
<cschneid_> RickHull: I know about performance. tl;dr - trying to do basic sql parsing to fingerprint sql down to pretty simple things like `Select User` and `Update Account` and such.
<RickHull> for the former, you can build it with regex
<gheegh> looking for one
<gheegh> it's implemented alreday a few places.. like in Rails routing..
<RickHull> gheegh: yep, i'd look there first
<gheegh> where you pick up data from the string
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<cschneid_> but I don't know what parts of the String api create brand new string objects vs not. And how to minimize that gc time
<gheegh> but everywhere i've found it so far is either in Javascript or the Rails router
<RickHull> cschneid_: every string operation will create a new object, generally
<RickHull> particularly with frozen strings
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<RickHull> cschneid_: if I were you, I'd build it cleanly and correctly, then profile and optimize
<cschneid_> RickHull: right, so something like `input.each_char { mystatemachine }` would create a ton of 1 char long string objects as it spun through right?
<gheegh> i'm suprised if there isn't a gem out there arleady that does this
<RickHull> gheegh: I don't know rails well enough to spit out the answer
<RickHull> but it can't be that hard to find
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<RickHull> cschneid_: I would say it's going to be hard to predict before profiling
<cschneid_> RickHull: yeah - I'll go try a few ways and see
<RickHull> it's possible that lots of tiny objects will have better gc performance than fewer big ones -- no idea
<cschneid_> yeah, there are those tipping-point string lengths (31 chars or something?) that may come into play, and ... yeah, who knows :)
<cschneid_> will be interesting, it's a pretty simple problem conceptually, just our app is doing a lot of it, so want to make sure it's speedy enough
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<RickHull> cschneid_: my info is in the realm of educated guesses here, so take with a grain of salt, regarding string object allocations. I'm fairly certain that profiling, gathering data, and making adjustments is better than predictions
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<RickHull> and keep in mind "frozen strings"
<cschneid_> RickHull: what version of ruby were those frozen-string changes made? Its sorta recent?
<cschneid_> there was the annotation first, then later it doing it automatically?
<RickHull> i'm about as fuzzy on it as you are :)
<cschneid_> When did the newer regex library land? That was 1.9 or 2?
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<RickHull> oniguruma showed up in 1.9
<RickHull> IIRC
<RickHull> just about anything that is in 2.0 landed in 1.9
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<cschneid_> I've been doing ruby too long :) Can't remember when any of these things happened.
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<RickHull> 2.0 was more about ceremony and establishing a reference for backwards compatibility
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<prutheus> hey how can I get a variable be forced evaluated.
<prutheus> I mean I do something like var_x = arrg[4].text
<prutheus> but it wants to evaluate .text function only when i use that assinged var somewhere else
<prutheus> but i need an assignment imediately when assigning
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<baweaver> prutheus: What's the full code there?
<baweaver> because Ruby does immediate assignment
<baweaver> so unless it's in a function or a block or inside an if conditional of some sort it will be immediately evaluated
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<RickHull> prutheus: what happens when you do arrg[4].text in irb? or `puts arrg[4].text` ?
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<prutheus> it is because i use selenium
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<RickHull> prutheus: you'll have to check with selenium folks or else give more context -- this question makes no sense for ruby
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<prutheus> oh yeah right
<prutheus> and it was also wrong
<prutheus> there was an error caused by something else
<prutheus> it got evaluated
<prutheus> thanks anyway :D im in bed now, gn8
<RickHull> cheers -- it can be tricky when errors compound :)
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<dminuoso> RickHull: damn yeah!
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<dminuoso> ∀∈⦃⦄
<dminuoso> I can finally compose keys intuitively!
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<RickHull> ASCII4LYFE
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<RickHull> is that first one for-every or at-least-one ?
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<dminuoso> Mm?
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<RickHull> i haven't looked at such symbols in a while. predicate logic? there exists at least one X such that ...
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<RickHull> "universal quantification" vs "existential quantification" maybe?
<dminuoso> One sec
<dminuoso> Im populating my mappings. :-)
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<RickHull> make sure you have the desk-toss, tenderlove's face thing, and reddit-look-of-disapproval
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<RickHull> propositional logic :)
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<dminuoso> But yeah ∀ is for univeral quantification
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