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<havenwood> I have a friend who's obsessed wiith OCaml
<Intelo> havenwood: why not python in list?
<havenwood> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<Intelo> havenwood: what to learn first, python or ruby?
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<Intelo> havenwood: will you choose ruby over clojure or elixir or contrary
<Intelo> general purpose or web^
<havenwood> Intelo: I used to use Python for Twsted, but now I'd prefer Elixir for that role.
<havenwood> Intelo: Python has great graphics bindings.
<Intelo> hm
<Intelo> havenwood: could you rank python, ruby, elixir, clojure
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<Intelo> havenwood: I mean why choose one
<havenwood> Intelo: For a web project, I'd say Elixir, Ruby, Clojure, Python would be my go-to order. Ruby would jump ahead of Elixir for me for a smaller project, especially where I can use Roda. It's really actually quite hard to say with "web" being the only constraint.
<Intelo> oh
<Intelo> havenwood: 'go to order'?
<havenwood> Intelo: What I'd likely use.
<leftylink> yes, because even if Ruby is your go-to language, C is your goto language
<havenwood> Intelo: In the abstract, pretending there weren't officially supported languages at my work. :P
<Intelo> havenwood: 'jump ahead of elixir' means ruby is better than elixir in small projects
<havenwood> leftylink: Just compile Ruby with GOTO support. ;)
<havenwood> Intelo: Not necessarily better, but in my comfort zone given the exact tools I'm familiar with.
<havenwood> __label__(:whee)
<havenwood> __goto__(:whee)
<Intelo> My English is not native. I will try to re iterate: Your first choice is elixir, then ruby, then clojure. Python will be your favorite of all?
<leftylink> I see a daring soul has also made a COMEFROM implementation for Ruby.
<leftylink> that is very interesting.
<havenwood> Intelo: Elixir is a great choice for web generally. Use Elixir. Then again, this is #ruby channel, so just use Ruby.
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<havenwood> Intelo: Either is great. Don't look back.
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<havenwood> Intelo: Choosing Ruby or Elixir for a web project gives you some amazing frameworks with incredibly flexible languages.
<Intelo> flexible like javascript with no type saftey?
<Intelo> or something else?
<havenwood> Intelo: Like macros (Elixir) and metaprogramming (Ruby) so you can change the language from within.
<Intelo> oh...
<havenwood> Intelo: One of Jose Valim's big challenges was introducing Ruby-like flexibility with Elixir, and I believe Phoenix show how much he succeeded.
<Intelo> so Elixir and ruby are similar? and one can change the language?
<Intelo> havenwood: what did you said about python above? the go to thing and the rank you have for python (ignoring the UI )
<havenwood> Intelo: I don't use Python these days. It's fine.
<havenwood> Intelo: I'm not a Python fan. When I use it it's to get at libraries.
<havenwood> Intelo: Someone else here might have more kind words for Python.
<Intelo> havenwood: thers no 'change' language from within thing for python?
<Intelo> havenwood: ok, why language to go for first? python, ruby or elixir?
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<leftylink> ah yes... I remember when I was going to interview at a company, and they asked me what language I would want to use, and then when I gave my answer, they said "oh that is not one of the languages we support" and I thought (but didn't say out loug) "well jeez, are you actively trying to make me unhappy or what?"
<havenwood> Intelo: I think most Pythonistas would think Rubyists and Alchemists have lost their minds when they consider Rails and Phoenix codebases. I like them. There are various philosophies.
<leftylink> but you know, I get it. they want to know if someone can be productive in their environment, fine
<leftylink> s/want to use/want to use for the interview/
<havenwood> Intelo: I've suggested starting with Elixir. I find it easier to teach than Ruby.
<Intelo> havenwood: noted. Which of the three will live more in later years you think?
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<havenwood> Intelo: Any language in the far right quarter is doing great: https://redmonk.com/sogrady/files/2020/07/lang-rank-q320-wm.png
<havenwood> Intelo: All three should have long lives.
<Intelo> I guess I would prefer ruby over python if ruby had more job oppertunities (thats one factor we did not discussed yet)
<havenwood> Intelo: Python and Ruby have pretty wild popularity. Elixir is younger, but looking good.
<havenwood> Intelo: I see jobs in all three languages. It seems somewhat regional. Unsure.
<Intelo> havenwood: ruby is very very regional..
<havenwood> Intelo: Many companies have you interview in any language of your choosing, and are quite happy to teach you whatever language they use if you don't already know it.
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<havenwood> Intelo: I'd focus on proficiency.
<Intelo> havenwood: python is much much more and more spreaded out
<havenwood> Intelo: With bigger companies the language used may vary by team. There are often many choices when starting a project.
<havenwood> Intelo: Just learn a language well enough to be fluent. Any you've mentioned are great.
<havenwood> Ruby is a neat choice since it's so multiparadigm.
<havenwood> You get OO, functional, lispy, you name it - Ruby probably has it.
<havenwood> And a friendly community can count for a lot while you level up.
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<Intelo> found something intersting https://youtu.be/8FQ4zW_F_Iw
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<Intelo> havenwood: ok, If I have to choose python or ruby, which to learn first?
<havenwood> Intelo: <3 Ruby
<havenwood> Intelo: If you want my opinion, Ruby. Learn Ruby. Start with Roda.
<Intelo> last question: I want to make something useful (still practicing/learning). Something real world usage. Any suggestions?
<havenwood> Intelo: https://roda.jeremyevans.net/
<Intelo> havenwood: So ruby, then py will be easy? If Py then ruby, it will be difficult for later language to grasp?
<Intelo> ok
<havenwood> Intelo: I think learning Ruby or Python will make the other easier to grasp.
<havenwood> Intelo: I'd not worry about it too much.
<havenwood> Intelo: Want to make an API or app first?
<leftylink> that is a little concerning. I had not considered whether there is any pair of languages where learning A then B would have a different end result than learning B before A
<leftylink> I'm not sure what would hvae to happen for that to be true
<leftylink> I suppose the lens of one language would have to significantly colour one's worldview for that to be true
<Intelo> havenwood: app. something that public can use and get benefit from
<Intelo> havenwood: even something I can sell :)
<Intelo> havenwood: or make it opoensource
<havenwood> leftylink: It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration. - Dijkstra
<Intelo> havenwood: smallest think/ easy / fast to make
<Intelo> havenwood: So i practice on something meaningful
<leftylink> ahhhhhh, yes that quote about BASIC must hvae been what I was thinking of!
<havenwood> Intelo: Aggregate some COVID-19 data into a unified API.
<Intelo> havenwood: already made
<havenwood> Intelo: For example, there're disparate sources of data that individual U.S. states release that nobody has actually unified AFAIK.
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<havenwood> Intelo: This is the typical source of data: https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19
<leftylink> if I want to make something useful, I think of a problem I am having, and what would be needed to solve it. For if I am divorced from the problem I am solving, I will never be able to understand the complaints and feedbacks of my users.
<havenwood> Intelo: That ^ data is per county, but some states release per zipcode.
<havenwood> Intelo: If you went and found sources for zipcodes and released an API it'd be the only one that I'm aware of at least.
<Intelo> havenwood: the real story: https://youtu.be/m6xWpf1zemI
<leftylink> ah yes, for languages on github
<Intelo> havenwood: I see
<leftylink> I was very pleased that uh what's it called?
<leftylink> githug? is available once again
<Intelo> havenwood: havenwood I think for AI stuff, ruby, elixir is not an option. PY is?
<leftylink> ah yes, it was githut indeed. https://madnight.github.io/githut/
<Intelo> havenwood: how about making an app that gives text description of an image when provided
<havenwood> Intelo: AI tends to be using libraries, which are often written in C for speed. Are you doing AI?
<Intelo> havenwood: I want to do AI
<havenwood> Intelo: Any of these three dynamic languages have bindings to C libraries.
<havenwood> Intelo: A lot of data science folk do like Python.
<Intelo> hm ok
<havenwood> Intelo: Write your own neural net to read numbers given a black and white PNG image with 100x100 resolution.
<havenwood> Intelo: If you want to *use* an AI library, pick which one before proceeding.
<leftylink> as you may remember, the original githut only had data through 2014, https://githut.info/ - which is why it was a great boon when https://madnight.github.io/githut/ finally came about to provide data from 2014-2020
<havenwood> Intelo: (You can write your own neural net to get starting in any of the above.)
<Intelo> don't have any idea of libs. Do I need libs or can do all by my own? also the libs are in C, so I can use any language on top of it?
<Intelo> I wonder why AI folks use python mostly
<havenwood> Intelo: Just "AI" is not enough for me to go on. I dunno.
<havenwood> Intelo: Learn C.
<havenwood> Intelo: Or Rust.
<Intelo> I wonder why AI guys do PY and not C
<havenwood> Intelo: They do Python in school.
<havenwood> Intelo: Most folk don't actually write the libraries, they use them.
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<havenwood> Intelo: It's the difference between making a Rails app and contributing to Rails.
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<Intelo> I see
<Intelo> so the libs actually are and should be made in C (and not other languages like py, ruby, etc)?
<leftylink> one can see for oneself. as can be seen in https://github.com/opencv/opencv, opencv is written in C++
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<Intelo> havenwood: leftylink Is it ok to hate/ stay away from .net c# microsoft technologies? :)
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<Intelo> I am saying 'no' to job offers that involve microsoft tech
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<leftylink> no one can tell you what to do, only what you'd miss out oon
<Intelo> I can't cover all and it seems if I have to chose a side, I would stay away from MS
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<Intelo> leftylink: what would I mis?
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<Intelo> havenwood: thanks for the valuable comments!
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<seydar> i'm having regexp trouble. It doesn't seem to be capturing ALL the dates in parentheses https://paste.ofcode.org/5xQLwPufv4kejPirnppaVX
<seydar> the first parenthetical grouping is captured greedily, and then the rest are lazily done
<seydar> anyone have any insight as to why this is happening?
<seydar> I recognize that I can just do [^)]+ and my problem goes away, but that doesn't enhance my understanding
<go|dfish> seydar: they're all greedy
<go|dfish> .+? would be "non-greedy" or [^)]+ as you've already said
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<seydar> go|dfish: how would you best describe what I'm seeing then? why isn't scan finding all of the parenthetical groupings?
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<go|dfish> seydar: because you're using .+ which is "greedy"
<go|dfish> perhaps it's confusing because you have \n in your data - so you get 2 matches. if there were no \n chars you'd just get a single result (because . doesn't match \n by default)
<seydar> ya know, maybe i'm misunderstanding what "greedy" means. i thought it meant that it would grab the first option it could, as opposed to getting as many characters as possible
<seydar> that's prolly the problem
<go|dfish> yeah, that's the opposite
<seydar> go|dfish: yep. changed it to lazy (.+?) and the problem went away
<seydar> glad we figured out where the problem was -- thanks!
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<EdwardIII> hey all. i'm pretty sure rgb shouldn't go higher than 255, but yet RMagic is giving me some pretty high numbers. what am i doing wrong here? https://gist.github.com/EdwardIII/0c0afefc5f0c697fd92b94353b527cd0
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<EdwardIII> (or if someone can suggest a different way of doing this / different lib i'm happy to try that too)
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<havenwood> &>> 256.abs2
<rubydoc> # => 65536 (https://carc.in/#/r/9iwg)
<havenwood> EdwardIII: If red, blue and green each use 8 bits (0-255), you get 1,6777,216 colors.
<havenwood> EdwardIII: If red, blue and green each use 16 bits (0-65535), you get 281,474,976,710,656 colors.
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<havenwood> &>> (2 ** 16).times.each_slice(2 ** 8).with_index.reduce({}) { |acc, (numbers, index)| acc.merge(numbers.to_h { |number| [number, index] }) } # EdwardIII
<rubydoc> # => {0=>0, 1=>0, 2=>0, 3=>0, 4=>0, 5=>0, 6=>0, 7=>0, 8=>0, 9=>0, 10=>0, 11=>0, 12=>0, 13=>0, 14=>0, 15=>0, 16=>0, 17=>0, 18=>0, 19=>0, 20=>0, 21=>0, 22=>0, 23=>0, 24=>0, 25=>0, 26=>0, 27=>0, 28=>0, 29=>0, 30=>0, 31=>0, 32=>0, 33=>0, 34=>0, 35=>0, 36=>0, 37=>0, 38=>0,... check link for more (https://carc.in/#/r/9iwp)
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<havenwood> EdwardIII: PS Commented on your gist.
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<EdwardIII> havenwood: hmm ok, thanks!
<havenwood> EdwardIII: I suspect you're just dealing with billions of colors. :) Maybe `color` has a method to downscale. Unsure.
<havenwood> Err, trillions?
<havenwood> 281 trillion is a lot of colors.
<havenwood> That number makes me nervous. Too many.
<havenwood> That's just an unnerving number synesthetically too.
<EdwardIII> havenwood: i think it's something to do with colour profiles. i see this image has an sRGB colour profile. and the `color` gemh as a method to convert between srgb, and rgb, so i'll start there
<havenwood> EdwardIII: Good luck!
<EdwardIII> appreciate it, thanks for the pointers!
<havenwood> you're welcome, any time
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<dnadev2> i have a worker that recieves some values when being called, i'm curious of the best way to deal with the values when it comes to calling other methods in the worker - i outlined my question here: https://dpaste.org/kr3s
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<apotheon> s/curious of/curious about/
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<pgib> s/sed/awk/
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<havenwood> s/awk/rg
<havenwood> Oops, omitted trailing slash. :O
* havenwood spins up a fresh VM
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<Eiam> dnadev2: why don't you have an object (struct or w/e) that defines whats inside instead of just an ever growing list of argv ?
<Eiam> as long as your callers conform to the type you can support how to eat it?
<Eiam> all these options after the cake look like perhaps different ways your cake is being consumed, maybe each should be its own method? not sure... I don't like methods that totally change what they do based on some flag that gets passed in
<Eiam> its surprising
<Eiam> you've activated my trap flag! this method no longer eats cake! instead it now donates cake for others to eat! sucker!
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<pgib> The cake is a lie
<pgib> erhmer-fricken-gerd. I'm trying to upgrade an ancient app. Had to move from phantomjs to something else (chrome). And EVERYTHING times out, no logs, no screenshots, nothing. How in the crap am I supposed to debug this?
<pgib> uh, no context, this is testing in Rspec w/ Watir
<leftylink> hmm, I could have sworn there was something that lets me omit the trailing slash, but it's not sed...
<leftylink> ah, in my editor I can omit it. that's why I get confused
<go|dfish> vi
<leftylink> this will surely cause me no end of confusion in the future as I forget which things let me omit andwhich don't
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<pgib> you don't even need to use slash in most grammars
<pgib> sed 's:^/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:'