<kentonv>
geofft: so, I was thinking about the specific case of emulating termios yesterday. I think you probably don't want a parallel stream since it would be hard to synchronize events between them.
<paulproteus>
I convinced myself that parallel streams are OK if you make the termios calls block, fwiw, kentonv
<kentonv>
one thing I thought of is that each ioctl() could be converted into an SCM_RIGHTS send of a new socketpair which is in turn used only to transmit the parameters for that one call
<paulproteus>
Oh wait, I think I've just unconvinced myself of that.
<paulproteus>
I guess in theory there's no guarantee that a write to socket 1 (some text) has been received by the receiver before a write to stream 2 (some termios ioctl) finishes.
<paulproteus>
This is pretty unlikely to ever be a problem, I think, but it's not good in theory.
<kentonv>
creating a new socketpair and passing it sure sounds heavy but we're talking about terminals here, so I'm doubting it would be a big deal.
<kentonv>
that is, a new socketpair per ioctl call
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<paulproteus>
Hi neynah !
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<geofft>
kentonv: oooooh
<paulproteus>
Also to be pedantic, or something, I want to say it's a socketpair per termios/tcsetattr/tcgetattr call, since there would no longer be any ioctls.
<geofft>
we should probably intercept ioctl(2) though :/
<paulproteus>
I think I'm fine with letting people crash and burn if they ioctl() on it rather than using the libc wrappers.
<paulproteus>
Curious what you think, geofft, though.
<geofft>
my suspicion is that lots of programs call the ioctl, and it's not harder (it uses the same struct, IIRC)
<geofft>
it's a very tiny bit more overhead, and it's, uh, incompatible with OSS (the sound thing) 'cause the ioctls overlap, but that's the extent of the downsides I think
<paulproteus>
I'm hopeful I can convince the authors to maintain the package, rather than me doing it, or at least find someone in the community who cares about self-hosted chat to do so.
<polyclef>
I may be abusing it a little. will ping kenton when he's live
<paulproteus>
Cool (-:
<paulproteus>
+1 to abusing things.
<warren>
paulproteus: do you modify any of the apps to make them "single sign on" as packages?
<polyclef>
a more general question would be around the expected user id for a new app. I am playing with packaging 0bin and I am getting an error "KeyError: 'getpwuid(): uid not found: 1000'"
<polyclef>
paulproteus: have you played with mattermost?
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<paulproteus>
I haven't yet, but I understand zarvox has.
<polyclef>
paulproteus: it's the best one that I've played with so far, by a significant margin
<paulproteus>
That's great to know.
<polyclef>
admittedly, I haven't used spacetalk yet, that's a new one to me.
<paulproteus>
That's fine; there's a bajillion of them.
<polyclef>
(goiing to check it out now though)
<paulproteus>
There's a very work-in-progress Mattermost package for Sandstorm that I'm hoping to look over in the next few days.
<paulproteus>
A friend of mine gave me the packaging on the condition that I not credit him or her with the current state since it doesn't actually work, is what I understand.
<tdfischer>
polyclef: set your HOME env in the capnp file
<paulproteus>
Thanks for trying all this stuff. Also polyclef if you're SF-based, we could chat tomorrow if that's helpful; I'll be working from the city anyway.
<polyclef>
I am sf based. in soma near mint plaza
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<polyclef>
tdfischer, paulproteus: that did it, thanks
<paulproteus>
> If you've ported an app you should put it on the app store! Eventually, the app store will be self-serve, but until then, submit a pull request like this one, or email community@sandstorm.io to be added.
<warren>
cool, glad you're talking
<polyclef>
I saw that, will do the PR
<paulproteus>
I'm so grateful.
<paulproteus>
You can also tell us how we can improve. (-:
<paulproteus>
(Admittedly you've done some of that via warren)
<paulproteus>
Does 2 or 2:30pm tomorrow work for meeting up somewhere?
<paulproteus>
Or I could do lunch at like noonish.
<paulproteus>
I was actually going to be at Epicenter near-ish Mint Plaza at 1pm for a different meeting.
<warren>
admittedly polyclef has looked a lot more at sandstorm than I
<warren>
I'm frantically preparing for my Tokyo trip presentation now
<paulproteus>
Great. I hope it goes well, warren !
<warren>
thanks
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<polyclef>
ok, one more. I am quite certain I've done a good search of the docs and I am getting an error creating a new paste. I believe it might be related to creating new subdirectories. 0bin tries to create zerobin/static/content/XX/YY/XXYYzzzzzz
<polyclef>
the zerobin/static/content dir exists and is in the .capnp file
<paulproteus>
polyclef: FWIW, the app's dir is mapped read-only, but /var is read-write
<paulproteus>
So you likely will want to make zerobin/static/content a symlink to /var/content (or something)
<polyclef>
ahh, that makes sense. going to add to the wiki the couple of issues I have hit
<paulproteus>
Awesome.
<paulproteus>
We might re-organize them at some point, but having them written-down is a great help.
<paulproteus>
So let me say: thank you for doing that.
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<babykinggeorge>
Quick question: how does updating of 'apps' in self-hosted Sandstorm work? So, for example, if Hacker CMS is updated does that update automatically get applied to my Sandstorm instance? If so, am I notified in any way? Thanks - keep up the awesome work!
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<dwrensha>
babykinggeorge: we plan to implement "push updates" so that you could allow an app to update itself. You would get some kind of notification when then happens.
<dwrensha>
For now, you have to manually update.
<babykinggeorge>
dwrensha: OK great, thanks. So manually updating is done how atm?
<dwrensha>
reinstalling
<babykinggeorge>
Cool - thanks :)
<dwrensha>
if you install an app that's a newer version of an app you already have, it gets applied as an update
<warren>
polyclef: btw, I didn't ask them about glauth specifically yet
<paulproteus>
I'm hopeful glauth is OpenGL authentication
<warren>
paulproteus: lol
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<warren>
paulproteus: yes, requires proprietary drivers and you can overclock your graphics card to make it auth faster!
<paulproteus>
Speaking of which (?) polyclef if you want to hang out, I'm free at+after 2pm in SF today
<polyclef>
kentonv: re docs, I added a link in Packaging-Guide because I hit that page multiple times while searching for a solution. I imagine that others will do as I did. I used error output I had in the Packaging-Tips page so that search engines can index and provide a quicker path to a solution. hope that's ok with you
<kentonv>
polyclef: yeah, that makes sense. I tweaked it a bit to satisfy my OCD. :) I changed the heading for EROFS to make it less python-specific, since this is an issue that you could run into in any language.
<paulproteus>
Presumably only if there were a Sandstorm package, but leaving that aside, it's a thing I wonder about.
<paulproteus>
It'd be kind of fun to chat with a few dozen people who are like "whoa so this Sandstorm thing can help me install Etherpad?" and then I could say "yes"
<paulproteus>
a day
<kentonv>
heh
<kentonv>
although my personal experience is that when a web site has a live chat window like that, it makes me incredibly uncomfortable
<kentonv>
and I tend to try to leave that site quickly
<paulproteus>
"that's OK, we want people like you to be scared and click 'Run your own'"
<kentonv>
:P
<paulproteus>
'Run your own' I think you mean 'Run away'
<paulproteus>
And yeah, in all seriousness, I'd like to try to balance those two perspectives on this sort of thing.
<kentonv>
I think I am not uncomfortable if there's merely a button that says "chat with a human". What I don't like is when the chat window opens up and looks live automatically.
<kentonv>
then I think there is a person watching me
<paulproteus>
This plus easy self-hostable piwik would make sandstorm THE platform for people who want to MONETIZE THEIR ONLINE CONTENT YOW
<paulproteus>
Okay I'm going to go get coffee now, since clearly I need more of it. (?)
<kentonv>
(although logically I know that there isn't a person watching me, even if the chat is pre-populated with "Hi my name is Alice, can I help you with anything?", no human is actually bothered until I type back)
<kentonv>
(but it's still discomforting)
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