jacksingleton has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
LiquidMind has joined #sandstorm
<neynah>
hi LiquidMind
<LiquidMind>
Hi :)
<neynah>
^ these guys are developing a music playlist app for Sandstorm (for the Meteor Distributed Hackathon)
<kentonv>
nice
<LiquidMind>
Is it possible to use SoundCloud API in our app?
<neynah>
One of the features they want to have is to be able to import/connect with Soundcloud, spotify, etc.
Mans has joined #sandstorm
<kentonv>
unfortunately, that's still difficult due to our sandboxing. :/
<kentonv>
right now, if you can do it from the client side (i.e. if the APIs support CORS) that's probably easiest, although we eventually plan to make that not work (though with some compatibility provision for existing apps)
<kentonv>
some day, we'll want apps to use the Powerbox to request access to third-party servers, but it's not ready yet
eternaleye_ has joined #sandstorm
eternaleye has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<Mans>
yes, I think we can do it from the client side
<paulproteus>
Hey that's a cool app idea!
<kentonv>
then I'd recommend that for now, though if you can write your code to make it easy to shift to the server later that would be a good idea
gopar has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<Mans>
ok. yes, we'll go with the client for the hackathon
<Mans>
it will be enough at this point and we'll see later
<LiquidMind>
We have 2 open spots in our team for Meteor Hackathon. If anybody like our idea just write me a message here: http://devpost.com/LiquidMind
<LiquidMind>
What are the advices and requirements that we can easy port our app to sandstorm.io?
<kentonv>
FWIW, we do actually have the ability to send HTTP requests from the server side if it turns out you need that, but the weird thing is you need to use Cap'n Proto to talk to the Sandstorm API to do it, which may be more than you want to deal with in a hackathon
<kentonv>
eventually we'll have libraries that make the setup for that a bit easier
<paulproteus>
"This results in the child namespace seeing a deleted file when the parent namespace file is modified with a text editor"
<paulproteus>
Super sad.
jorge has left #sandstorm [#sandstorm]
<paulproteus>
(-:
<paulproteus>
... probably easy to repro if I have a local wifi router box that has a short DHCP lease.
<paulproteus>
What a fascinating bug.
bb010g has joined #sandstorm
eternaleye has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
jorge has joined #sandstorm
<jorge>
Suggestion: could you iso time stamp the logs in the web gui? That would be helpful I think.
<jorge>
just zulu even
<paulproteus>
jorge: If you're willing to file a bug, that would help us avoid forgetting?
<paulproteus>
github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm
<paulproteus>
I meant ! not ? .
<jorge>
ok, sure, sorry, should have that bookmarked for the future
<kentonv>
paulproteus: is there an issue number for "the asheesh button"?
<paulproteus>
kentonv: hmm lemme see
<paulproteus>
p.s. I do still want that!
<paulproteus>
: D
<kentonv>
yeah, someone just emailed support asking for it, so I wanted to give them a link
<paulproteus>
/usr/bin/yes
<kentonv>
(or rather, they asked for the ability to get a new copy of their sharing link, which of course we can't because we don't have it)
<paulproteus>
Also how come you get to read support but I don't?
<paulproteus>
I guess I should subscribe to a list?
<kentonv>
I guess!
<jorge>
um, since you're both here...
<jorge>
Why did the set up want me to map 80 and 443 when it only uses 6080?
<jorge>
or am I missing something?
<kentonv>
it's supposed to use 80 and 443, but it only does so if nothing is already using them
<kentonv>
the installer could be a bit clearer about this
<paulproteus>
agreed
<jorge>
but what if it's nat and they are blocked by default?
<paulproteus>
If it's NAT, you can forward them!
<paulproteus>
Then life will be grand.
<paulproteus>
kentonv: whoa
<jorge>
you are already telling them to use 6080 by default tho.
<paulproteus>
we could do connectivity check as part of the port 80/443 detection
<jorge>
I mean it's just confusing.
<kentonv>
the installer checks if they ports are in-use *locally*, ignoring nat
<paulproteus>
bind to 80, ask sandcats if it can hear us on port 80, and if so, then win
<jorge>
I personally don't care which port
<kentonv>
jorge: do you have some other web server running already?
<jorge>
I'm simply speaking to the documentation.
<paulproteus>
I need to prep for something non-Sandstorm related to have to wander off for now.
<paulproteus>
kentonv: I think I know no ticket ID for the Asheesh Button.
<jorge>
yes kentonv, both manually and with the new ssl script (thanks to rebooting or something....)
<paulproteus>
Cheerio, will read scrollback.
<jorge>
I happily installed the manual original version behind a nat.
<kentonv>
jorge: so, the installer script is detecting that something is already using port 80 and/or 443, and therefore it is falling back to 6080. But otherwise normally it would use 80 and 443.
<kentonv>
the documentation is presumably written assuming that this fallback didn't happen, I guess
<jorge>
Recently, responding to an email on the list I ran the new ssl install script (to get ssl)
<jorge>
very cool implementation by the way
<kentonv>
it's all paulproteus' doing. :)
<jorge>
Oh, you two!
<jorge>
He praises you! :-)
<jorge>
Anyhow,...
<kentonv>
I mean he definitely did all the work on HTTPS support specifically. :)
<jorge>
So I just barged in and ran the script and did what I was told.
<jorge>
but your ideas. specifically the dyn dns. very cool.
<jorge>
ok.
<kentonv>
yeah the fallback in the install script is definitely not ideal right now. It should probably actually stop and say "Hey, you already have a web server running, would you like me to use a different port or did you want to remove it first?"
<jorge>
So, i'm not that smart of a bear anyhow, but I always like to click and drool
<kentonv>
and then things would have been clearer, I think
<jorge>
ok, fine. but i didn't have anything on my home box
<jorge>
some text somewhere told me to map 80 and 443.
<jorge>
so I did
<jorge>
There is an ether doc somewhere.
<kentonv>
note that if it went to 6080 then it also didn't request an SSL cert for you. :/
<jorge>
about ssl, that's why I suddenly decided to give sandstorm another go on my new box (first in 10 years!)
<kentonv>
yeah what I'm saying isn't documented, and that's a problem
<kentonv>
we need to improve this
<jorge>
I really love this project and all your ideas.
<kentonv>
thanks
<jorge>
well, that might be my end in helping a little
<jorge>
the dns thing is genius.
<jorge>
ash said that's on you
<kentonv>
haha, well I had the idea "why don't we run our own dynamic dns" and then pretty much assigned it to him from there. :)
<jorge>
well, one of you is modest as f. and the other is a genius. :-)
<jorge>
anyhow...
<jorge>
another thing is mailgun.
<kentonv>
in any case, I think the next step for you is to try installing again but make sure that it chooses the right ports. It may be a bug in the script is making it think that the ports are already in use even when they aren't...
<jorge>
I had never heard of mailgun before your initial release and docs. They are wonderful!
<kentonv>
(such a bug was reported to us today)
<kentonv>
ah, yeah. Unfortunately it's not _quite_ possible to set up mailgun for sandcats right now because they require some DNS setup that we don't support. >_>
<jorge>
it's fine for login. ash was in fine and so am I now. something to do with resolve.conf I think he said.
<jorge>
ah.
<kentonv>
right but are you getting https or just http?
<jorge>
so you should really stop recommending it dude.
<jorge>
in that context.
<kentonv>
or we should fix it so people can use it! :)
<jorge>
it worked wonderfully in a manual setup and I recommend them way more over elastic and chimp (eww)
gopar has joined #sandstorm
<jorge>
I'm not swimming in time, but I would like to help test in the evenings.
<jorge>
can you think of a way that mailgun could cooperate with sandstorm on dns? They were very supportive and friendly when I wrote them on my free usage of them.
<kentonv>
cool. I suppose this is where I cash in the "modesty" and say that fixing these things is paulproteus' job, so you should keep talking to him. :)
<jorge>
like, maybe they could give sandstorm a sub.sub.sub domain as wildcard?
<jorge>
dunno.
<kentonv>
we just need to add code to sandcats to support it
<kentonv>
there's not really any way around it
<jorge>
ok
<jorge>
I'll wait.
<jorge>
I can still send out manual invites right? (never done it, just been testing all this time)
<kentonv>
(FWIW I think sendgrid allowed me to skip DNS setup initially. I'm surprised mailgun doesn't. It means your mail is more likely to be filtered as spam but otherwise it should basically work.)
<kentonv>
yeah you can create invite links and send them manually
<jorge>
Perfect then. Unless some instance needs to send mail (like the 'reddit' one for e.g.)
<kentonv>
most of them don't... other than the mail client apps I think you can get away without it
<jorge>
ok, so on a natted box, low, low volume, couldn't one just put in sendmail?
<jorge>
postfix
<jorge>
can sandstorm accept /usr/bin/sendmail?
<kentonv>
yes, you can use sendmail. The trouble is that a lot of home internet connections and IaaS providers block port 25. But if you aren't blocked you can definitely use it.
<kentonv>
I think you only need to enter smtp://localhost as the address.
<jorge>
cool. do I just put in the ... thx
<kentonv>
but I haven't tried it personally
<jorge>
:-)
<jorge>
waiting. got 'success! email has been sent"
<kentonv>
note that the success only means it successfully queued to the local sendmail, which in turn might just sit on it if it isn't connected to anything
groxx has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<kentonv>
but that's outside my expertise
<jorge>
I know. I've been here long enough to never, ever run an email relay since, I dunno... 15 years ago. It's like a career now.
<jorge>
anyhow: "Success! Your outgoing SMTP is working."
<jorge>
:-)
<jorge>
ta da!
<jorge>
so you know that works now (isp willing...)
<kentonv>
cool
<jorge>
my isp is citywest.ca in northern BC, Canada for anyone listening in
<jorge>
cool. I'm good to go again.
<kentonv>
yay
<jorge>
seriously yay. been drooling all day about getting it back up again.
<kentonv>
:)
<jorge>
I do need to do the ssl thing, which was the actual point though.
<jorge>
that email blast was what drew me back to start again. (my manual install was on a previous natted box)
<jorge>
The connection to gemlog.sandcats.io:6080 was interrupted while the page was loading. Now where to?
<kentonv>
seems to load from here
<jorge>
get out. I'll try another browser.
<kentonv>
only under http though
<kentonv>
if you're trying https then it won't work, yeah
<jorge>
OK, this an aha! Gotcha! that was nowhere implied in the recent email announcing ssl.
<kentonv>
right because it's sort of hard to warn people about bugs you don't know about yet
<jorge>
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not complaining about your free open-source gift.
<jorge>
ok, comeo n.sorry.
<jorge>
not that.
<kentonv>
it's OK, I'm just trying to explain: yes, the install script has a bug, and we are going to fix it
<jorge>
I get that.
<jorge>
I'm just saying that the info could be
<jorge>
prioritized
<jorge>
so that some took place in the easy install part
<kentonv>
I'll make sure asheesh fixes this tomorrow.
<jorge>
You're right. I didn't go far enough back. sorry.
jacksingleton has joined #sandstorm
<jorge>
when it's done, I will do a clean install and try to write it up
<jorge>
in the meantime, i'm just excited about using it
<kentonv>
I think once we fix the install script there should be no need for any doc changes.
<jorge>
some small mention of which things are used. like nginx and mongo are good.
<kentonv>
we actually don't use nginx
<jorge>
like just in passing.
<jorge>
I thought it was mysql for e.g.
<jorge>
what?
<jorge>
I'm sure I read nginx somewhere tonight.
<jorge>
I was thinking I could just go edit and tweak.
<jorge>
Anyhow, whatever the server and backing store, putting that briefly just by name would be good I think.
<kentonv>
we used to recommend nginx for ssl, before we automated it. And we have some hints for people who still want to use it. But we don't use nginx by default.
<jorge>
and now you use...
<kentonv>
node
<jorge>
node and mongo
<jorge>
so really, I'm just suggesting adding about five words.
<kentonv>
we could perhaps expand the "how it works" section to mention the tech we use (there's more than just node and mongo)
<jorge>
of course! I'm just now focused on the ux of a simple install via the copy and paste line
DanC__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<jorge>
like putting in smtp://localhost as a suggestion with a caveat
<kentonv>
yeah that should go in there somewhere
<jorge>
should work on most linuxes
<jorge>
linuxi?
<jorge>
:-)
<kentonv>
anyway, I have to head off now. Good luck!
<mquandalle>
The above blog post is in French, I guess if you don’t want to learn this great language to read it you may use something like Google translate ;-)
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
Mans has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
larjona has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<zarvox>
mquandalle: awesome, thanks for the link! My French isn't great, but I was able to guess correctly at most of the content. :)
<zarvox>
looks like I may have some updating to do...
<larjona>
zarvox I used apertium.org to translate (to Spanish) and it was enough understandable. Not sure about fr->en apertium capabilities
<zarvox>
larjona: looks like a neat project! the only output languages I see right now are Catalan, Esperanto, and Spanish, but I could see this becoming useful.
<zarvox>
I wonder how big their datasets are, and what it takes to build a good translation engine.
<zarvox>
One of my friends in grad school spent a summer interning at Google doing researchy things related to Google translate; maybe I should ask him!
<paulproteus>
I vaguely wonder mrdomino if we'll eat their market. But I guess we should try and find out, and then they can do something like charge for a Sandstorm-compatible Play Store version of the Android app, or something.
<mrdomino>
yeah, good point. if you like i can intro you to them
<paulproteus>
Sure! Email intro them to community@sandstorm.io IMHO.
<mrdomino>
kk. community@ is an alias to you?
<paulproteus>
To me and Jade and I think Kenton
<paulproteus>
So feel free to use asheesh@ if that weirds you out.
<paulproteus>
I personally enjoy when other people read my email.
<mrdomino>
:) right on
<mrdomino>
intro'd
<paulproteus>
reply'd
mort___ has joined #sandstorm
simonv3 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
mort___ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<dwrensha>
Today I Googled for "KJ style guide" and ended up at some celebrity fashion site.
<paulproteus>
++
NOTevil has quit [Quit: Leaving]
home has joined #sandstorm
gopar has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<paulproteus>
Hey zarvox... should `vagrant-spk setupvm` also do `spk init` ?
<paulproteus>
Like presumably yes, although I don't have to make that change today.
<paulproteus>
Maybe that's a way to remove some confusion.
<paulproteus>
(Naturally we should avoid overwriting an existing sandstorm-pkgdef.capnp.)
<paulproteus>
Oh right it can't because there's no Linux box yet.
<paulproteus>
But it could do it right at the end, I guess, after the Linux box is ready, if we wanted to get fancy.
<paulproteus>
Then at least there's no cognitive load (unless it breaks).
<jparyani>
paulproteus: +1
<paulproteus>
i,i why can't we just port spk init to Python
<paulproteus>
or emscripten it and use a JS interpreter to run that
<paulproteus>
In other news, sleeping is a POWERFUL FORCE.
<paulproteus>
I recommend it highly.
<paulproteus>
I guess arguably "setupvm" and "up" and "init" are 3 steps to do one thing.
jadewang has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xet7 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
home has quit [Quit: Leaving]
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
<paulproteus>
jparyani: What if 'vagrant-spk dev' were the phase that created an empty pkgdef as needed?
<paulproteus>
rather than 'vagrant-spk setupvm'?
<jparyani>
hmm, maybe that’s ok for me
<jparyani>
it is annoying to always forget to `up/init` though
<jparyani>
but maybe its a good thing to teach people that `up` is neccessary
<paulproteus>
Yeah, I vaguely feel like up being necessary is important since it's the one thing they will do in the future.
<paulproteus>
'up' could take care of 'spk init'.
<jparyani>
yep, i’m +1 on moving init to first up
<paulproteus>
So far you're +1 on everything! : P
<zarvox>
+1 on init moving to first up if there's no sandstorm-pkgdef.capnp yet
<paulproteus>
It's also not clear why up != dev
<paulproteus>
up != spk dev, that is
<paulproteus>
Is there a reason to up without spk dev-ing?
<jparyani>
pack
<zarvox>
up != spk dev "because you need to restart spk dev various times"
<paulproteus>
Oh interesting.
<paulproteus>
Fair enough! re: "because you need restart spk dev various times"
<zarvox>
also init has to come after up
<maurer>
Is there a document describing the design choices for the spk sandbox out of curiosity?
<paulproteus>
maurer: I don't super-duper think so. kentonv would know more.
<zarvox>
things like "/proc has too much attack surface but /proc/cpuinfo is important, /dev has too much attack surface" and so on?
<maurer>
I mean, there are a bunch of existing sandboxy techs, and sandstorm kinda brewed their own. It seems to work, but I was wondering if perhaps there was a summary of why others were not suitable / why this way makes more sense etc.
gopar has joined #sandstorm
larjona has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<paulproteus>
Annoying question for y'all: why do I have to set an email address for a dev account?
<paulproteus>
I will look at GitHub issues etc.
<paulproteus>
But basically, we would agree this is a bug, right? It should presumably be alice@example.com ?
<paulproteus>
jparyani: btw "optin" looks like a typo of "option" for me!
<kentonv>
paulproteus: yeah
bb010g has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<paulproteus>
bd filing
eternaleye_ has joined #sandstorm
eternaleye_ has quit [Changing host]
eternaleye_ has joined #sandstorm
<paulproteus>
Ooh #999 !!!
<ckocagil>
sup #sandstorm
<paulproteus>
Likewise ckocagil
<paulproteus>
(-:
<paulproteus>
I am revising the Meteor packaging tutorial.
<paulproteus>
I hope it's better now!
<paulproteus>
I am still working on it though.
<paulproteus>
jparyani: <3 re: #1000
<jparyani>
oh man i got #1000
<jparyani>
do i get a prize :)
jparyani has left #sandstorm [#sandstorm]
<paulproteus>
I presume he's left the channel to claim his prize.
jparyani has joined #sandstorm
<ckocagil>
is sandstorm getting a UI remake with powerbox?
<paulproteus>
Not necessarily a total UI remake.
<paulproteus>
We're still figuring that out, but in the meantime we're working on UI changes that we already know are important.