kentonv changed the topic of #sandstorm to: Welcome to #sandstorm: home of all things sandstorm.io. Say hi! | Have a question but no one is here? Try asking in the discussion group: https://groups.google.com/group/sandstorm-dev
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<dckc>
I find myself considering LastPass Families at $4/month and wondering if that's wiser than trying to get sandstorm to meet my needs.
<dckc>
re recent funding discussions, I still have $9/month budgeted for sandstorm. I'd happily put that into a fund for development.
<dckc>
hmm... "Sandstorm Oasis is Shutting Down" is still the main headline on https://sandstorm.io/news/ . Let's replace that. At least with "NNN customers transitioned to self-hosted" or something?
<dckc>
anybody know what it would take to contribute a blog article? anybody but kenton able to post?
<dckc>
ugh. I get connection refused on my server. I could probably debug it, but I wonder if it's wise to spend my time that way rather than migrating to digital ocean.
<dckc>
As cool as sandcats is, I'd really rather used my own domain (madmode.com). Anybody else here have their own domain set up with wildcard and whatnot? And perhaps interested to hold my hand a bit as I set it up?
<dckc>
I'm interested in weekly "office hours"; a regular peer-to-peer get-together about sandstorm.
<crab>
dckc: what are the familial password needs you're trying to meet?
<crab>
i still use sandcats.io, though i did read a post on the list earlier this year that you could use your own domain now that letsencrypt supports wildcard certs.
<crab>
i meant to try it, but to be honest it's not been a huge priority so far.
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<ocdtrekkie>
Hey dckc
<crab>
hi ocdtrekkie
<ocdtrekkie>
Hey crab
<crab>
i was just looking at docs/administering/ssl.md (and faq.md) and thinking about how to use a letsencrypt wildcard certificate.
<ocdtrekkie>
I assume it should be plausible if you've got your own reverse proxy in front of Sandstorm.
<ocdtrekkie>
Sandstorm itself just isn't equipped to manage it.
<ocdtrekkie>
Kenton has talked about reworking Sandcats to use Let's Encrypt at some point in the future. But we are apparently still quite far from running out of the Sandcats certificates that were bought up front.
<crab>
i wonder what would happen if you run ``OVERRIDE_SANDCATS_GETCERTIFICATE=no install.sh`` and then separately install your letsencrypt certificate to var/sandcats in the places that the default sandcats_configure_https does.
<crab>
i haven't quite understood how/when the code in shell/server/sandcats.js (e.g., Sandcats.renewHttpsCertificateIfNeeded) gets executed. if it isn't enabled, then you wouldn't need much else.
<crab>
it happens only if… const SANDCATS_HOSTNAME = (Meteor.settings && Meteor.settings.public && Meteor.settings.public.sandcatsHostname);
<crab>
ah. so if you don't set SANDCATS_BASE_DOMAIN, then it won't get set, and that code won't do anything.
<crab>
i have a vague memory that someone on the -dev list had written some mail about having tried it long ago.
<crab>
it's worth trying to change the domain name and drop a wildcard certificate into the right place and see what happens.
<crab>
aha!
<crab>
docs/administering/self-signed.md
<crab>
just do that, but use a letsencrypt certificate instead of a self-signed one.
<crab>
oh, but that's a reverse proxy setup.
<crab>
dckc: if you're happy with running behind nginx or haproxy or something like that, then it's easy (and documented). if you want sandstorm to use your certificate directly---and manage the renewals yourself---then you can experiment with sidestepping the sandcats configuration.
<ocdtrekkie>
I've been off of IRC a long time. I'm reading some of the backlog.
<dckc>
crab, do you use sandcats? (maybe you just said...)
<dckc>
hi ocdtrekkie .
<dckc>
about federation... don't regular web links suffice?
<ocdtrekkie>
Well, I mean, like, I'd like on my Sandstorm to see grains on other Sandstorm servers that have been shared with me.
<dckc>
so... make a document called "other servers" and put links in it?
<ocdtrekkie>
Like, I have that bounty board link on my server, but you'd have to go to my server to see if it's been updated or the like.
<ocdtrekkie>
It's just somewhere I think Sandstorm could someday offer a cleaner setup.
<ocdtrekkie>
Consider that since most Sandstorm servers use identities/userIds that aren't specific to a given server, you could have a day where my Wekan grain on my server is loaded in the grain frame from your server.
<dckc>
I don't see why I would want that. (the whole frame thing is not a feature, as far as I'm concerned.)
<ocdtrekkie>
That's fair.
<dckc>
the feature is that you can link to a grain from anywhere. bookmarks, email, some page you keep, a good doc, whatever you use to organize stuff
<dckc>
I don't use the sandstorm shell as a main organizing tool
<ocdtrekkie>
I guess for me I'd just like to organize my grain links in Sandstorm. Though there's a lot missing for that. Like folders. (Collections is great for sharing, but not really great as an organizational tool.)
<ocdtrekkie>
I do think a blog post would be a good idea, if you come up with something we can probably get Kenton to post it. I don't know if we'd have straight numbers for how many people switched to selfhosting.
<dckc>
oh. yeah. switching to self-hosting doesn't automatically notify anybody.
<dckc>
but maybe he has logs of transfers?
<dckc>
blech... I don't have sandstorm-dev set to send replies by email
<ocdtrekkie>
He might have some data from those who opted to send statistics. But I doubt he put a lot of focus into logging metrics data when adding the mass transfers feature.
<ocdtrekkie>
Partly because it's not very Sandstorm-y to focus on data collection, particularly when there's no longer any business value in doing so.
<dckc>
true
<dckc>
I guess I could do a call for testamonials... set up a form...
<dckc>
since I suck at hosting, maybe I could use ocdhost?
<dckc>
I wonder what to do about documentation... I was thinking about asking for use cases... what are people trying to find? (and failing). but maybe the place to collect questions is stackoverflow
<ocdtrekkie>
I can authorize you to create stuff on my Sandstorm server, sure.
<ocdtrekkie>
Obligatory disclaimer that it may be offline sometimes for backup or "I broke my network", etc.
<dckc>
of course; meanwhile, you evidently suck less at hosting than I do :)
<ocdtrekkie>
I threw a lot more money at it than most people would, I imagine.
<ocdtrekkie>
Given the discussion about discarded laptops and old desktops in the IRC backlog. :P
<dckc>
oh? what service provider(s)?
<ocdtrekkie>
It's in my house, it's just on brand new hardware.
<dckc>
ah
<ocdtrekkie>
It's an i5 Intel NUC with an SSD.
<ocdtrekkie>
The biggest problem would be heavy network traffic, since it's here and I don't have symmetrical Internet. It's mostly meant for me+friends use. But it should be fine for some general Sandstorm enthusiast collab work.
<ocdtrekkie>
My guess is that you as the form creator, see the answers.
<dckc>
I can't answer my own form? And I can't invite others to edit the questions?
<crab>
i wanted to use my own domain, but when i installed sandstorm in 2017, letsencrypt didn't support wildcard certificates, and by the time they introduced the functionality in 2018, it didn't seem like a big deal to me any more.
<ocdtrekkie>
There's a way to make forms with EtherCalc too, which has a different link for filling out the form. But I'm not sure we ever modified Sandstorm's sharing to let you share the fillable form directly.
<ocdtrekkie>
Which would be a good (and relatively easy) addition.
<dckc>
meanwhile, the reality of competing with surveillance capitalism sinks in once again, as I show my sense of entitlement based on experience with google forms, surveymonkey, etc.
<ocdtrekkie>
I wonder if it'd need some updates for 2019 though.
<ocdtrekkie>
It's been a couple years since the last commit.
<crab>
i'm sorry, but i can't resist the temptation to say things here so i can see the live updates in action
<crab>
(on the irclog site)
<ocdtrekkie>
EtherCalc's sharing model is basically that editors see / and viewers see /view. Apparently the form mechanic uses /form, so it'd be pretty trivial to add another sharing role for "can fill form" and lock it to /form.
<ocdtrekkie>
LOL
<ocdtrekkie>
It's likely that model would choke if I tried to give someone both the view and form filling roles, mind you, because Sandstorm permissions are cumulative.
<ocdtrekkie>
But it'd be a little more robust than Sandforms is.
<ocdtrekkie>
If we get EtherCalc officially updated soon, I'll look at doing that.
<ocdtrekkie>
Just need someone to fix #694 on EtherCalc.
<ocdtrekkie>
Technically the fix is literally already listed in the issue. I just haven't had the time to figure out if I can figure out how to do the whole LS to JS thing.
<ocdtrekkie>
Written in LiveScript.
<ocdtrekkie>
But that's the big breakage in the current experimental EtherCalc package.
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<dckc>
sandstorm/run-bundle.c++:2358: failed: **mongod failed to start.
<dckc>
that follows...
<dckc>
** Restarting to apply update
<dckc>
in the mongo log:
<dckc>
2019-12-28T20:34:29.727+0000 [initandlisten] ERROR: Insufficient free space for journal files
<dckc>
btw... ocdtrekkie ... how did you authorize me to create grains on your service? (I suppose it's documented; please excuse my asking you to play caching http proxy)
<dckc>
"We intend for our automatic updates to not cause any downtime." :)
<isd>
dckc: Re: authorizing users to create grains: if you're an admin of your instance you can click on your username in the upper right -> admin panel -> users
<dckc>
thanks!
<isd>
no problem.
<CaptainCalliope>
Does anyone know if Matrix/Riot enables me to stay persistant in this channel even if my devices are all offline?
<CaptainCalliope>
Also, are there logs kept anywhere online that don't require me to click through one day of non-conversation at a time?
<dckc>
for logs, maybe wget is your friend?
<CaptainCalliope>
Yeah, I'm comfortable enough in a command line, but I'm not quite that technical.
<ocdtrekkie>
dckc Sorry I wasn't at my desk. Sounds like you found it though.
<dckc>
`wget --mirror --no-parent --convert-links https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/sandstorm/` downloaded a bunch of stuff. I don't know how likely it is to produce something as complete as you want