azonenberg changed the topic of #scopehal to: libscopehal, libscopeprotocols, and glscopeclient development and testing | https://github.com/azonenberg/scopehal-cmake, https://github.com/azonenberg/scopehal-apps, https://github.com/azonenberg/scopehal | Logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/scopehal
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<bvernoux> hello
<bvernoux> Happy New Year everyone
<bvernoux> for 1st day of 2020 I have designed a TRL Board from DC to 26.5GHz ;)
<bvernoux> But as it is 77mm x 89mm is is quite expensive on OShPark => 104.9USD ...
<azonenberg> o/ bvernoux
<azonenberg> check out this board i'm ordering soon
<azonenberg> The final SMA match, in-line probe tip vs offset like i had before, then some tweaks to the tip geometry for fitting in tight spots better
<bvernoux> ha very nice
<azonenberg> Still have to do the new enclosure, i'm going to try moving to a one-piece design
<bvernoux> it will be a flexpcb ?
<azonenberg> No this one is rigid RO4350B, it's a competitor to the picoconnect probes
<azonenberg> although much less expensive and with a form factor more like a standard scope probe
<bvernoux> one small improvement could be to have via less far than the trace
<azonenberg> Thats one of the things holding me back on the order - tweaking exact via spacing
<bvernoux> recommended via spacing is 50mil
<azonenberg> They're on a 1mm grid right now center to center so via-trace-via
<azonenberg> edge of drill to edge of trace right now is 0.6 mm
<bvernoux> with via drill 0.4064 mm & via size 0.762 mm
<azonenberg> The vias are 0.5mm diameter with 0.3mm drills
<azonenberg> 1mm pitch
<bvernoux> yes but recommended is 1.27mm 50mil ;)
<bvernoux> I do not know what that change
<azonenberg> Recommended where, for what geometry?
<bvernoux> from manufacturer
<bvernoux> up to 26.5GHz
<azonenberg> what manufacturer?
<azonenberg> and for microstrip or CPW?
<bvernoux> CPW
<bvernoux> pi-CCS-JOHN-142-0771-831.pdf
<bvernoux> from BelFuse
<bvernoux> For optimum high frequency circuit board performance, use the following fabrication guidelines:
<bvernoux> Place 16 mil diameter ground vias on both sides of the coplanar waveguide line, spaced
<bvernoux> at 50 mil intervals along the entire length of the line.
<bvernoux> anyway you are not far and I do not know what that change exactly
<azonenberg> Yeah. This is one of the things i want a higher edition of sonnet for
<bvernoux> it is just recomended for their SMA endlaunch connectors
<azonenberg> L2 Basic's RAM limit is problematic wrt simulating actual size/shape vias
<bvernoux> ha you cannot simulate that ?
<azonenberg> I modeled my via fence as a long box
<azonenberg> Individual vias add a lot more polygons which needs more ram
<bvernoux> ha yes I see
<azonenberg> I can do it, but not for a substantial area
<azonenberg> Especially if you model them as round vs square
<bvernoux> I plan to use 142-0771-831 or 142-0761-891 for my future Test Boards
<bvernoux> as they seems quite good and up to 26.5GHz
<azonenberg> I'm using SMA-J-P-H-ST-EM1
<bvernoux> but about 14USD per connector ...
<azonenberg> for the time being
<bvernoux> yes it is way cheaper about 4USD/unit
<bvernoux> even less
<bvernoux> I'm doing a new revision of your Test Probe ;)
<azonenberg> oh?
<bvernoux> using the optimal values for OSHPark 4 layers
<azonenberg> oh you mean the microstrip with smas for testing probes on?
<bvernoux> with cheap SMA like SMA-J-P-H-ST-EM1 and other compatible ...
<bvernoux> CPW
<azonenberg> yeah but i mean, a version of that
<bvernoux> yes
<azonenberg> If it turns out good send me the gerbers so i can have some made for here
<bvernoux> my previous version was very strange and act like a low pass filter ;)
<azonenberg> Lol
<azonenberg> Yeah i did not characterize mine super well and it wasnt optimized with the field solver
<bvernoux> so now I have used all perfect values for OSHPark 4 Layers ;)
<bvernoux> trace 0.34mm
<bvernoux> also I have found a very strange bug
<bvernoux> as you connector was on the EdgeCuts
<bvernoux> there was a short
<bvernoux> in fact edge cuts was converted in Copper Layer on all layers
<bvernoux> maybe it could explain my strange results too
<azonenberg> edge cuts was put into copper?
<azonenberg> that sounds like an export problem
<bvernoux> a very good check for that is to use ZofzPCB with IPC-D-356Netlist
<azonenberg> (i dont use kicad import for anything, i export gerbers and visually double check them before ordering)
<bvernoux> it detecte things are shorted ...
<bvernoux> yes edge cuts was put into different layers
<bvernoux> you can say it shall be not a problem as it will be cut
<bvernoux> but if the cut is not big it can keep some shorts
<bvernoux> so a safe margin is to never have SMA connectors on border on the Edge Cut
<azonenberg> i would say the proper thing to do is not export edge cuts onto other layers :)
<bvernoux> on your SMA Probe I have just moved the SMA connector +0.3mm and all is ok
<bvernoux> yes it seems clearly a bug with export in Kicad
<azonenberg> There's a checkbox 'exclude pcb edge layer from other layers'
<azonenberg> it's checked by default, which means you do not plot edge cuts on other copper
<bvernoux> but that issue appears with 5.0.5-2 latest stable and also latets nightly build
<azonenberg> if unchecked, edge cuts is plotted on copper
<bvernoux> ha yes it is unchecked ;)
<azonenberg> So that explains everything then
<bvernoux> it was the mistake ;)
<azonenberg> PEBKAC :)
<bvernoux> what an awfull option
<bvernoux> I have never checked that ;)
<azonenberg> Yeah i've never looked at it either
<azonenberg> its always been checked by default for me
<azonenberg> i wonder if a recent change unchecked it
<azonenberg> i'm on 5.1.4
<bvernoux> hmm interesting
<bvernoux> anyway it is safe to avoid have connector or other things on the border ;)
<bvernoux> my proto for full TRL tests
<bvernoux> on OSHPark
<bvernoux> let's push this new Test Probe ;)
<bvernoux> see the result here for your customized sma-probetarget https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/m3rvURoK
<_whitenotifier-5> [scopehal] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-2/±4] https://git.io/Jexsb
<_whitenotifier-5> [scopehal] azonenberg bb45a1a - Moved graph widget to a new repo so we can use it in other projects
<_whitenotifier-5> [scopehal-apps] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JexsA
<_whitenotifier-5> [scopehal-apps] azonenberg 6a16c63 - Graph widget is now in another library, updated include paths
<_whitenotifier-5> [scopehal-cmake] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] https://git.io/Jexsx
<_whitenotifier-5> [scopehal-cmake] azonenberg a79432f - Updated build for new graph widget location
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