whitequark changed the topic of #solvespace to: SolveSpace--parametric 2d/3d CAD · latest version 2.3 · http://solvespace.com · code at https://github.com/solvespace/solvespace · logs at https://irclog.whitequark.org/solvespace
<awygle> trying to think how to phrase this, can i have an extrusion where the two ends of it are not just parallel planes? or do i have to do another difference later to make that happen?
<awygle> like if i wanted to do "extrude until you hit this surface" but that surface is curved
<whitequark> unfortunately there's no such operation
<awygle> bummer. ah well. hopefully differencing down from the curved surface won't make NURBS explode :p
<awygle> it's weird that you can't select a plane as the source for a workplane
<whitequark> I had to revert a patch that did that because of backwards compat concerns
<awygle> shit, it did cause NURBS to explode. think i can fix it tho...
<whitequark> yeah, it's pretty frustrating
<awygle> master actually seems to perform much worse
<awygle> unless i got an incorrect master build (didn't want to build it myself, got it from https://ci.appveyor.com/project/whitequark/solvespace/build/artifacts
<whitequark> much worse on what?
<awygle> just general manipulations
<whitequark> NURBS? speed?
<awygle> dragging things, drawing new stuff
<awygle> NURBS seems to be the same
<whitequark> oh
<whitequark> those are debug builds
<whitequark> of course they're slow
<awygle> ... o. yes.
<awygle> duh
<awygle> my bad
<whitequark> I can make you a mingw build easily
<whitequark> won't have SpaceMouse support
<awygle> that would be appreciated
<awygle> i don't have a spacemouse
<whitequark> 64-bit or 32-bit?
<awygle> 64 please
<whitequark> offtopic while it builds: do you know offhand how to match an RS-422 driver to Ethernet AUI?
<awygle> i don't. i don't know much about ethernet aui
<whitequark> mostly this one seems to have rail-to-rail swing (3V3) and AUI has 450 mV min, 1315 mV max
<whitequark> I think everything else is close enough that I can ignore the difference
<awygle> yeah 422 is rail to rail
<whitequark> so AUI is... 1 V nominal, I think they mean?
<whitequark> into 78 ohm transmission line
<whitequark> do I just use a divider?
<awygle> differential divider, i think. h-pad.
<whitequark> ooooh thank you
<whitequark> hm
<whitequark> ok, so rs-422 has 100 ohm impedance, aui has 78 ohm (is that what IDC cable has? 50 meters of IDC per 802.3 sounds mildly insane)
<whitequark> (still building)
<whitequark> and I need 5 dB of attenuation to go from 3.3V to 1V
<awygle> the values given by that calculator in that situation pass my sniff test (i expected slightly above Zmax in the middle and somewhat lower on both ends)
<whitequark> hm, the driver actually works with a lot of different line impedances from 54 to 100 ohm
<whitequark> I don't think I really need to match that, so I can just use 78 for both. that cuts down on resistor values considerably.
<awygle> honestly a 100 to 78 mismatch is probably not that bad even if you just hooked them up directly
<whitequark> yeah
<whitequark> and it's just 10 Mbps
<whitequark> here's your build: https://cloud.whitequark.org/s/XL4ayBLe5CPEyEj
<awygle> thank you
<whitequark> np
<awygle> oh fuck off windows defender, i know what i'm doing
<whitequark> that's why i didn't ask you for an email
<whitequark> no idea what provider you use, but i'm sure it'd shred an exe
<awygle> i share your certainty
<awygle> oh yes that's MUCH better. it renders all the bright red conflict lines much more quickly :p
<whitequark> hahaha
<whitequark> yeah, we switched from immediate mode opengl to VBOs
<whitequark> and added a lot of caching elsewhere
<awygle> i should have no expectations that my NURBS woes will be improved by this change, though, right?
<awygle> still basically the same solver?
<whitequark> not significantly
<whitequark> there's been some minor improvements
<whitequark> it's unlikely you'll notice, but it is slightly better
<awygle> all right well at least when i have to scrap half my groups to try and get to a more nurbs-friendly formulation it'll be a lot faster to redraw them lol
<awygle> thanks wq
<whitequark> yeah NURBS are hard
<whitequark> sadly most people with complex geometry gave up and switched to f360
<whitequark> can't blame them
<awygle> i'm gonna finish this design in solvespace
<awygle> i'm fighting an urge to say "sooo why exactly can't integrating opencascade work? maybe i could take a look..." which i know will not end well for anyone
<whitequark> we're mostly not doing it for ideological reasons. the original author didn't because he considers opencascade a giant pile of atrocious code, which it is
<whitequark> I share his opinion of OCE; I dislike it *slightly* less but still have no burning desire to integrate it
<whitequark> you know what the problem with OCE is?
<whitequark> it's developed by the org that sells consulting
<whitequark> for OCE
<whitequark> negative incentive to make it any better
<awygle> oof. yes.
<whitequark> it would probably be acceptable to have an optional OCE integration but I would advise you against trying to do it unless you have so much time you don't know what to do with it
<awygle> yeah, i figured
<whitequark> SolveSpace isn't the easiest codebase to work with, either. we're changing that, slowly, but it's complex
<whitequark> lots of implicit interrelated dependencies you have to keep to avoid breaking savefiles
<awygle> and as far as improving solvespace's solver, is that primarily a "nobody's paying so it's not a priority" or a "this is technically extremely difficult" or both?
<whitequark> solver or NURBS?
<whitequark> these two are completely orthogonal
<awygle> NURBS i guess
<awygle> the solver is good
<awygle> i wasn't sure how they related
<whitequark> it's technically extremely difficult
<whitequark> there are very few people who can actually do it. I know... one or two, and I'd have to hire them, pay them a competitive salary, and become a manager basically
<whitequark> so unless you have something like $6K/mo laying around
<awygle> not currently, no
<whitequark> there's a reason no open-source NURBS library does booleans, except OCE and SolveSpace
<whitequark> I looked really hard over the years, and no one else did it. well, unless there's a new once since ~2y ago, but unlikely
<whitequark> there's just no options even if you ignore the language
<awygle> understood
<whitequark> people mostly do for things like csg or brep, which are stupid easy to do booleans on
<whitequark> and then you can't export STEP so it's pointless
<awygle> i feel like i saw a roadmap-ish post once that said "we need to move from NURBS to <something that sounded like NURBS but wasn't>", but maybe i'm making that up
<whitequark> don't think so, since NURBS is one of main advantages we have
<awygle> arright. well thanks for the info. i didn't really think there'd be a feasible solution or you'd have done it already.
<whitequark> it'd still be a lot of effort to replace the NURBS backend, but yeah, there isn't even anything to replace it with besides OCE
<whitequark> the NURBS math is truly heinous for booleans
<whitequark> fun fact: the booleans aren't actually exact
<whitequark> since there are many cases with no closed form solution
<whitequark> (or at least that's what I understood, I'm really bad at this sort of math)
<awygle> is it possible for a certain geometry to be unexpressible in solvespace? (with exact nurbs i mean)
Ekho- is now known as Ekho
<whitequark> oh, sure
<whitequark> any loft along bezier
<whitequark> probably many simpler examples
<awygle> "loft along bezier"?
<awygle> oh thank god i managed to express it. hopefully when i recreate everything else it'll still work.
<whitequark> awygle: like, drag a 2d sketch along a bezier curve
<whitequark> to make a solid
<awygle> oh, like for threads
<whitequark> no, those actually can be done with helix
<whitequark> it's ... quite slow right now, and even more fragile than usua
<whitequark> but it is doable
_whitelogger has joined #solvespace
mauz555 has joined #solvespace
mauz555 has quit []
cr1901_modern has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
cr1901_modern has joined #solvespace
cr1901_modern1 has joined #solvespace
cr1901_modern has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
cr1901_modern1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
cr1901_modern has joined #solvespace
stultulo has joined #solvespace
f8l has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
stultulo is now known as f8l
<awygle> ... i have a symmetrical sketch, on a symmetrical part, where one half of the sketch causes a NURBS failure when extruded and the other half does not.
<awygle> ended up fixing it by changing a dimension but still, weird
<awygle> phew. done. thanks for all the help, wq