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<drmeister>
I started porting maxima to clasp. I had to add core:make-unspecial. Does anyone know anything about maxima - should I anticipate any trouble?
<Bike>
are you using the one that's somewhat portable or the original
<drmeister>
I want to translate my Mathematica code to lisp+maxima
<drmeister>
I don’t know - good question
<drmeister>
I’ll check when I can
<Bike>
the original maxima is old and weird
<Bike>
and had gcl specific stuff i think
<drmeister>
This code uses symbol properties like crazy
<didi>
Hum, passing DECLARE forms to my own macros isn't easy. The compiler complains about evaluating them. I see that SBCL has a function just to separate DECLARE forms from body. I will try to piggyback some build-in construct.
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<Bike>
alexandria has
<Bike>
parse-body i think it's called?
<Bike>
something like that
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<didi>
Bike: Thank you. SBCL calls it `parse-body' too.
<drmeister>
Bike: that looks great! I’m not using that one - so it must be the older one
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<drmeister>
I must by using the older one
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<didi>
Can I have a sequence of DECLARE forms?
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<Bike>
Yea
<didi>
Bike: Nice. Thanks.
<Bike>
also, they're not forms, to be pedantic
<didi>
Oh, they are not? Sorry. What are they?
<Bike>
since they're not evaluated. "declare expressions" or just "declarations"
<didi>
Cool. Thank you.
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<Bike>
both the foo and bar packages USE the cl package, so they have the same symbol from cl.
<didi>
Bike: Ah, cool.
<didi>
Thank you, Bike.
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<whoman>
Shinmera: whats a 'subject' in trial ?
<whoman>
"KCL is notable in that it was implemented from scratch, outside of the standard committee, solely on the basis of the specification. It was one of the first Common Lisp implementations ever, and exposed a number of holes and mistakes in the specification that had gone unnoticed."
<didi>
Curious: Does anyone define a package and doesn't USE the cl package?
<Bike>
occasionally.
<Bike>
either there's a replacement, or it's a package with no code written in it.
<Bike>
e.g. closer2mop defeines a "closer-common-lisp" package that you're supposed to use instead of cl.
<didi>
A replacement, interesting.
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<didi>
Hum. Instead of loading alexandria, one could write a replacement for cl with all the goodies.
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<Bike>
for alexandria it's unnecessary, because it doesn't conflict with cl.
<didi>
True.
<rumbler31>
whoman: hey, that part about function typing last night?
<rumbler31>
whoman: you can probably get pretty good results by defining a union of function pointers.....
<rumbler31>
that way the compiler might let you more easily pass functions of a variety of signatures to higher order functions. maybe.
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<whoman>
im talking about this again today too, a lot of stuff can be done with C+funptr; even hierarchical object system seems unecessarily complex for most tasks
<didi>
I guess a replacement must be a super set of CL.
<whoman>
organizational nightmare, especially while still designing. flat naming should be enough if we are skillful with our words and letters
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<stylewarning>
Hey all: Can I unsafely turn a byte array into an array of complex double float, unportably without copying in SBCL?
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<stylewarning>
another question: Is there a way to get the raw unfill-pointered array of an array with a fill-pointer?
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<stylewarning>
I think ARRAY-STORAGE-VECTOR should work.
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<epony>
Good morning, beach!
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<johnnymacs>
Is there a lib for handling de bruijns notation
<beach>
Good question. I haven't seen one.
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<beach>
Sounds like you have a project for yourself.
<johnnymacs>
I am thinking I would really like to write in common lisp but then I cant take my code and use it in emacs
<johnnymacs>
like what if I make a cool thing with hash tables and then I have to hand compile it to emacs lisp
<beach>
Emacs has a Common Lisp package these days. Write it in a subset that will work in both Emacs and Common Lisp.
<johnnymacs>
That's kind of like the madness of posix compliant shellscripts
<johnnymacs>
I was think of making a similar sort of domain specific language
<beach>
Sure.
<johnnymacs>
I am thinking of a DSL that is meant to pass code freely between scheme lisp and elisp. It would use the lambda calculus for the logic programming and hash tables to manage memory. In scheme you would have to use hash tables to implement an immutable tree
<johnnymacs>
I've got a lambda calculus interpreter that interprets de bruijns
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<johnnymacs>
But it shouldn't be necessary in languages that already have suitable lambdas
<whoman>
hmmm. hi beach! also im in the same spot. i love both elisp and CL
<johnnymacs>
the posix thing may be the right way to go I dunno
<whoman>
i've seen a lisp file once, that compiles on elisp, common lisp, and scheme
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<whoman>
i cannot find it. but it was wild; there were compiler switches and all that
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<pjb>
whoman: you would have to add reader macros to all the characters. Some implementations use a-list for the reader macro table. Even if you only had mostly base-char in your sources, this would require several tens of memory accesses to read each character before executing your reader macro. It would not be difficult to implement, but it would be very ugly.
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<whoman>
pjb: what do you mean, for C+CL ? or for a lisp file that compiles to scheme,cl,elisp ? ive seen that file, there were a couple of macros but it was mostly compiler switches for the parts where the langs were different
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<pjb>
whoman: to move : the other side of keyword symbols.
<whoman>
ohhh! ty ty
<whoman>
hm makes sense
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<pjb>
whoman: it would be preferable to prefix the code where you want such drastic syntactic changes with a singular reader macro.
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<pjb>
So that you can implement your own lexical and syntactic analysis more classically and cleanly, than going thru the readtable.
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<whoman>
http://lisp-lang.org/ <-- see first example clipping here. keywords are kind of hideous
<whoman>
thats 17 presses of the shift key, without snoopy-mode
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<pjb>
whoman: bad keyboard, change keyboard. cf. xmodmap.
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<whoman>
snoopy-mode ! portable across non-x systems =)
<pjb>
or, indeed, emacs.
<whoman>
one day i realised i dont type direct digital numbers merely as often as i type all the symbols they hide under shiftmodding
<whoman>
also yes terrible keyboard
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<pjb>
whoman: also, you can trivially write an emacs command so that when you type foo: SPC, it changes it to :foo.
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<whoman>
ah whoa loud speaking, is audio required for vid ?
<whoman>
pjb: oh true! also emacs can display words/stuff that is different than whats in the buffer. forgot about that...
<loke>
lisp-lang's background is of Singapore. :-)
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<krwq>
does anyone know any library with buffer pool implementation (ideally thread-safe)
<whoman>
pjb: whoaa !!!!
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<Shinmera>
whoman: A subject is a class to which event handlers can be attached.
<whoman>
Shinmera: ah! so a passive passion, rather than an active action (object) ?
<Shinmera>
Huh?
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<beach>
Improved arrow rendering for incorrect indentation in Second Climacs: http://metamodular.com/gutter3.png Notice that it still doesn't know how to indent DEFMETHOD and LOOP, hence the arrows in that picture.
<phoe>
beach: pretty! I like it.
<beach>
Thanks.
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<loke>
beach: That looks very nice!
<beach>
Thanks loke.
* loke
needs to test it again. Please remind me where is the official repository for second climas?
<beach>
It is not working very well at the moment.
<loke>
OK, I have a few issues. Which one of these do you want me to try to fix? 1) Cursor keys are not mapped. 2) The cursor takes up horizontal space. 3) Graphical artifacts when scrolling. 4) TAB key is not mapped to anything sensible.
<loke>
(if any)
<beach>
loke: My plan was to get enough functionality related to Common Lisp editing working, because I think I am the only one with ideas in that respect, and then leave a lot of the rest to contributors.
<beach>
loke: 2 is deliberate.
<beach>
1, 3, and 4 are all good.
<loke>
beach: I find it to be hhugely distracting. Would you be OK with making it a configurable option?
<beach>
loke: Yes, it would. But maybe not at this point.
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<pjb>
epony: AFAIK, yes, he's the author.
<pjb>
epony: we can assume the email at the bottom is the signature.
<epony>
I very much like this text.
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<beach>
epony: Yes, I wrote it.
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<epony>
What does the "metamodular" (concept) symbolise?
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<beach>
Noting in particular. Just a name that is easy to pronounce.
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<epony>
That got me thinking..
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<beach>
Good. That's the purpose.
<epony>
..whether modules are modal, or if modality is modular..
<bjorkintosh>
epony, that's funny. I just discovered the same essay a few minutes ago! and then beach showed me Dweck's video on growth mindset https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isHM1rEd3GE
<dmilez_>
anyone know if there is an atom-slime for vscode ?
<pjb>
beach: would you say informatimago is easy to pronounce?
<epony>
bjorkintosh thanks for the links, watching it shortly..
<Shinmera>
beach: I've tried all of those. OBS blows them out of the water.
<beach>
That's very good information. Exactly the kind I am looking for. Thanks again.
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<Shinmera>
If you need help setting it up, I'd be glad to offer some (maybe over privmsgs, though)
<jackdaniel>
note: obs is really good /unless/ you have wayland window compositor
<beach>
I am again thinking about this community project to create a site for learning Common Lisp. It would contain a graph of short subjects, and each subject should contain text, examples, exercises, and video snippets.
<jmercouris>
that's a good idea
* |3b|
thinks i used simplescreenrecorder or recordmydesktop last time i was on linux
<beach>
Shinmera: Thanks. I won't do it right now, but I might take you up on that once I am ready.
<jmercouris>
I would be interested in particpating in that as a proofreader/writer
<beach>
Great!
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<jmercouris>
I'd also be interested in making these learning resources as portable as possible
<|3b|>
OBS gives you a lot more control, and i use it on windows sometimes, but the simple stuff is nice when you don't need the extra control :)
<jmercouris>
if we could make these assets accessible on a site like "udemy" or "codeacademy" it would be great I think
<beach>
Shinmera: Do you have any advice about where such a thing could be hosted, so that people could make contributions without too much trouble?
<jmercouris>
beach: I know you didn't ask me, but I would think wiki software would be the best
<jmercouris>
or maybe a git repository as is done in the common lisp cookbook
<Shinmera>
beach: It depends on how structure you want the site to be.
<Shinmera>
*structured.
<jackdaniel>
isn't "Learn Lisp the Hard Way" goal the same?
<Shinmera>
The way I do it for ELS is that we have a syntax for edition data that people can edit as lisp files. This is then assembled into HTML pages by a generator.
<Shinmera>
That way the look of the site is detached from the actual content.
<Shinmera>
But, building such a system takes a bit of effort on its own.
<beach>
Shinmera: I have vague ideas, but there would be a fairly large number of "nodes", one for each very small subject. And there would be all kinds of ways to navigate the graph of nodes.
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<Shinmera>
The quick start would be to do what the cookbook does, which is to just throw a bunch of markdown files into a github repo.
<beach>
jmercouris: Sure, wiki sounds good. But there needs to be some sanity checks too.
<beach>
Shinmera: Oh? Can video snippets be encoded in markdown?
<Shinmera>
beach: Not encoded, but included. Markdown can include arbitrary HTML.
<Shinmera>
Well I guess you could include it base64 encoded, but I really don't recommend it
<ecraven>
put them in as data: urls :P
<Shinmera>
That's what I just said
<jackdaniel>
afair drmeister hacked jupyter notebooks and CL - they look very handy for this kind of learning
<beach>
I can't even begin to imagine how a "node" would be represented in a GitHub repository.
<jmercouris>
beach: moderators
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<beach>
jmercouris: Sounds good.
<jmercouris>
a "node" as in a learning module? as a folder I would think
<beach>
jmercouris: I am totally ignorant here. I didn't even know that GIT had the concept of a folder.
<ecraven>
doesn't git only know about files, not folders? last I heard, you cannot add empty directories to git
<jmercouris>
folders are files
<beach>
jmercouris: Now I am totally lost.
<jmercouris>
yeah, I just explained it poorly
<jackdaniel>
everything is a file! hail UNIX ;-)
<beach>
jackdaniel: Not again!
<jmercouris>
so basically, I mean just make a dir like "/learning-book" and then make "/learning-book/chapter1"
<ecraven>
jmercouris: but what if I want to add the directory to git, without any files in it?
<beach>
I guess the thing to do would be to have all you cool kids agree on a structure, stick in some initial material, and then tell me how to add more.
<ecraven>
I tried that, but never received it on checkout
<jmercouris>
you may add a blank file to the dir, just touch something and it will detect it
<jmercouris>
git is just trying to be clever
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<jmercouris>
you can then rm the file at a later time, and the dir should stay IIRC
<ecraven>
jmercouris: I don't want a blank file, I want only the directory, nothing in it
<jmercouris>
see above
<ecraven>
yea, that doesn't sound ideal :-/
<jackdaniel>
hint: .gitignore file is a good candidate
<jmercouris>
there must be a way to force addition of files
<jmercouris>
s/files/folders
<Shinmera>
No
<jackdaniel>
there is not
<jackdaniel>
git tracks files not directories
<jackdaniel>
period ;)
<beach>
Anyway, I think the most important part is to create a bunch of nodes. They don't have to be organized in a graph, at least not to begin with.
<Shinmera>
beach: An advantage of my approach is that you could start out defining some nodes as some lisp data, and then later figure out how to assemble them into a website.
<beach>
I would like to see video snippets around 5 minutes long, so as to cater to the young generation with an attention span of a gnat.
<beach>
Shinmera: Precisely what I want.
<jackdaniel>
I like the no-tldr policy of the enlightenment desktop environment developers
<jmercouris>
jackdaniel: what is the no-tldr policy? they only write very lengthy articles?
<jackdaniel>
johnnymacs: I won't provide you tldr, you have to find it and read ;-)
<beach>
I have ideas about how to organize such a thing. And I have ideas about the contents. But I really don't have the technical knowledge about the tools to do the mechanics of it.
<jackdaniel>
jmercouris: ↑
<jmercouris>
jackdaniel: lol, nice
<jackdaniel>
johnnymacs: sorry, typo
<ecraven>
pjb: that also adds .keep, which I don't want
<pjb>
ecraven: go talk to Linus.
<ecraven>
anyway, I know this doesn't work, I was just pointing it out, as someone said git supports adding empty directories (which afaik it just doesn't)
<jmercouris>
It does, in a very round about way
<pjb>
ecraven: Finland: the people Russian try to talk to since forever…
<JuanDaugherty>
i hate that guy, typical capitalist pig, only watched 5s
<pjb>
JuanDaugherty: and Von Braun was a NAZI.
<pjb>
Space is full of capitalist and nazi pigs.
<schweers>
*cough* godwin *cough*
<pjb>
Don't you know, Hittler and the Nazi escaped in flying saucers?
<JuanDaugherty>
well he was a german, iirc he didn resist worked on their rocket program and stuff but I doubt was more than that
<JuanDaugherty>
few german scientist gave anything more than token resistance
<pjb>
That's the point. Elon Musk is not capitalist. He uses the system to do what he wants.
<JuanDaugherty>
he's a quintessential capitalist
<Shinmera>
>>#lispcafe, thanks
<pjb>
By the way, "Iron Sky" is also a Finland production. They know something…
<jmercouris>
beach: So I'm I would imagine, about halfway through the transformation that you had described with the foreign "server gui", and it is going pretty good, I think in the long run, this will pay huge dividends
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<jmercouris>
beach: thanks :)
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<ecraven>
alsam
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<ecraven>
sorry ;)
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<didi>
I wanted to provide a RETURN escape for a macro I was writing. Unfortunately the BODY of the macro was deep inside a nested DOLIST, so a RETURN would just pop from the inner DOLIST. Turns out MAPC is very useful for these situations. I just switch DOLIST to MAPC.
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<dlowe>
didi: you could have also provided a named CL:BLOCK
<dlowe>
didi: along with CL:RETURN-FROM
<dlowe>
oh, wait, I see what you mean.
<didi>
dlowe: I thought of that. But I couldn't think of a simple way. I still wanted the user of the macro to use RETURN.
<schweers>
pjb: does this mean that (let ((car (car foo))) (do-stuff-with car)) is not a conforming program (fragment)?
<pjb>
schweers: no, it's conforming, it's allowed in the exceptions.
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<dlowe>
the exceptions mostly cover the separation between operations and variables
<pjb>
wait
<pjb>
right, in the execptions, the first paragraph: If an external symbol of the COMMON-LISP package is not globally defined as a standardized dynamic variable or constant variable, it is allowed to lexically bind it and to declare the type of that binding, and it is allowed to locally establish it as a symbol macro (e.g., with symbol-macrolet).
<schweers>
I made the mistake of first asking the question and only then reading the exceptions to the rules :/
<schweers>
my bad, sorry
<pjb>
this says also that no other symbol exported from CL than the specifically specified as dynamic variables or constant variables, is declared special.
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<francogrex>
i updated to the new sbcl which also uses the new asdf apparently. I notice a very annoying change. everytime I load a system, it tends to recompile. before it was not the case
<francogrex>
has anyone else also noticed that?
<Bike>
i remember people complaining about something similar
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<Shinmera>
Yes, it has come up.
<Shinmera>
I don't remember if it was fixed in ASDF completely and/or whether that made it into SBCL again.
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<francogrex>
yes it is in sbcl 1.4.5 unfortunately. thanks now I realize it's not just me. I hope it gets fixed
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<didi>
Which book do you recommend for learning about macros?
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<Bike>
pcl's explanations seem fine
<didi>
Bike: Oh, I read PCL's. I was thinking of something more in depth.
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<Bike>
honestly, there's not a lot to it
<didi>
Bike: I know On Lisp, but I didn't read it.
<didi>
Bike: oic
<Bike>
if X is a macro, then when the compiler sees a form (X ...), it calls X's macro function with the form and the lexical environment, and then compiles the resulting form instead
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<didi>
Hum. I see.
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<sjl>
Let Over Lambda covers macros pretty heavily. Not everyone likes the book though — there are some weird style choices, and the tone is a bit much sometimes.
<sjl>
I think it's worth reading, maybe with a grain of salt.
<Shinmera>
If we upgrade that to a bag of salt, I agree.
<dlowe>
I think it's really entertaining reading :)
<dlowe>
It's like an entertainment park for lispers.
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<Bike>
tha's the one with the backquote thing right
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<Shinmera>
Yes
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<Shinmera>
I remember when SBCL made that change to their backquote implementation. One dude got really furious about it.
<sjl>
didi: yeah, that's it. part of it is available online I guess, so you can try before you buy.
<sjl>
"the backquote thing"?
<Bike>
the book has this defmacro/g! thing that doesn't work in sbcl
<Bike>
people come in here occasionally and ask why
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<sjl>
Oh the auto gensymming thing, yeah
<rumbler31>
fascinating
* didi
is getting curious
<Bike>
it defines this macro that's supposed to let you define macros such that in their body, g!name is replaced with a gensym
<Bike>
which is broken
<didi>
"Only the top percentile of programmers use lisp and if you can understand this book you are in the top percentile of lisp programmers." Hihi.
<Shinmera>
Gotta use a code walker for that.
<sjl>
or clojure ;)
* Shinmera
makes a jerking-off hand motion
<Bike>
how would it work in clojure
<sjl>
didi: Yeah like I said, the tone is a bit much.
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<Bike>
"top percentile" is just gonna make me think ratatatas
<sjl>
Bike: clojure has something similar built in
<Bike>
as a special case, or is it defined in terms of some other semantics?
<sjl>
symbols ending in # get turned into gensyms
<sjl>
(eval `(let [foo# 1] foo#))
<sjl>
1
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<sjl>
well, that's a bad example because it doesn't actually prove it's a gensym... but: `foo#
<sjl>
foo__1226__auto__
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<Bike>
"I don't believe you"
<Bike>
and it's what, like, per read?
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<sjl>
per syntax-quote, so if you need to unquote and requote you have to do it the old fashioned way
<sjl>
`(foo# ~`foo#)
<sjl>
(foo__1230__auto__ foo__1229__auto__)
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<Bike>
Huh, so you could probably finagle that with reader macros.
<sjl>
LOL has o! to replace ONCE-ONLY too. I prefer just using the with-gensyms and once-only macros myself.
<Bike>
Have your ` replacement bind the translation table, and then ! or whatever does the replacement
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* drmeister
doesn't like those kinds of salt licks. He never knows who's been licking it before him.
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<schweers>
how come g! and o! in LOL are broken? I use defmacro! from a package someone made from the LOL code (on quicklisp) and it seems to be working fine.
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<schweers>
oh, it seems like it uses PARSE-BODY, so yes, it may be using a code-walker
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<Bike>
because it finds g! symbols by "flattening" the body, or using sublis or something
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<Bike>
on sbcl, though, backquote syntax is read in as structures
<Bike>
so there's no simple way to flatten or otherwise iterate through it
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<schweers>
oh. because what (read-from-string "`(foo bar)") returns is implementation defined?
<Bike>
yeah.
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<didi>
schweers: I use `parse-body' to separate declarations from the rest. Is it bad?
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<Bike>
that's what it's for
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<schweers>
I don’t think it is. I’ve never used it, I’m just trying to see how defmacro! is broken, and whether the version I’m using is broken too: https://github.com/thephoeron/let-over-lambda
<didi>
oic
<schweers>
I don’t think the use of parse-body fixes this issue. But no, I don’t think its bad. I should be using it more myself :D
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<comborico1611>
Is it customary to put the key or the list first, in the order of parameters?
<Xach>
comborico1611: What is the context?
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<comborico1611>
Just in general. Like in use with find-if. Just searching a list basically.
<Shinmera>
Unfortunately both idioms exist in the standard library, eg getf vs assoc.
<Shinmera>
However, usually the thing you're looking for is more important or interesting, so it coming first makes more sense in my opinion.
<comborico1611>
Oop, I think that answers my question. Thanks!
<comborico1611>
Shinmera: Yes, I agree.
<didi>
I like to go as it would read in English: (find x list) => Find the element X in the list LIST
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<didi>
Of course one could argue for: (find list x) -> Find, in the list LIST, the element X. But I think it's awkward.
<Shinmera>
In some cases where what you are retrieving is more of a property, the "container key" order can make more sense since it implies a "depth".
<pjb>
comborico1611: it doesn't matter, anyways you should define your own functional abstractions, so you can use your own conventions.
<Shinmera>
Which I guess is what the thought process behind getf might have been
<Xach>
Hmm, what is the use-case for package-locally-nicknamed-by-list?
<comborico1611>
didi: that is an insightful way of approaching it.
<didi>
comborico1611: Not mine, tho :-). I think I read it on PAIP.
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<beach>
rme: I take it you made it back home?
<pjb>
rme: exactly :-)
<rme>
Yes. I'm even essentially recovered from the 9 hour time difference now, too.
<beach>
Great!
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<scymtym_>
Xach: i don't know but it is buggy in SBCL
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<Xach>
scymtym_: Ok. I think I will think that it is superfluous for now, but am open to persuasion otherwise.
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<Xach>
My thinking today is that package-local nicknames must be implemented without adding any new packages or functions, only new arguments and return values to standard functions, if they are to be really useful. No compatibility layers.
<Xach>
package-local nicknames are in a good place among theoretical extensions to be done that way
<vtomole>
How big do your function definitions need to be before you need to break it into helper functions? Is there a general rule or is it up to the programmer?
<Bike>
it's not something you're going to be able to put a number on it
<Bike>
grammar
<beach>
vtomole: A good heuristic is that the function must fit on a screen so that it can be read entirely by the maintainer.
<beach>
vtomole: In practice, it is best if it is significantly smaller than that.
<scymtym_>
Xach: i assume the overwhelming majority of cases would only involve the :LOCAL-NICKNAMES option to DEFPACKAGE
<TMA>
vtomole: other than that, if you find yourself asking 'shall I split this?' you probably should
<schweers>
I can’t help but wonder why it is so often brought up with lisp. This should probably be done in lesser languages too.
<Xach>
scymtym_: but that must also carry over into make-package, find-package, rename-package, and package-nicknames.
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<scymtym_>
Xach: oh, are you suggesting all information (e.g. the local nicknames established by a package) should be available without adding new functions?
<Xach>
scymtym_: yes
<Xach>
one possibility: make-package needs :local-nicknames, find-package needs :global as a new argument and a new secondary value indicating local vs global, rename-package needs a second optional value, and package-nicknames needs a :local argument
<vtomole>
beach: Why don't you delete obsolete code?
<beach>
vtomole: Good question. I have no good answer for you.
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<beach>
vtomole: In this particular case, I only recently decided that I wasn't going to pursue this direction.
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<scymtym_>
Xach: i see
<sigjuice>
I have several versions of alexandria in ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software from continued use of (ql:update-dist "quicklisp"). How does quicklisp know which one to use?
<Xach>
sigjuice: it uses only the one indexed by the metadata files
<Xach>
sigjuice: you can remove the old copies with (ql-dist:clean (ql-dist:dist "quicklisp"))
<sigjuice>
Xach: thanks! that was going to be my next question :)
<Xach>
sigjuice: the metadata files are in ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/installed/
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<_death>
MORE HAIRY
<_death>
this is how I feel about my lisp hacking today
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<jmercouris>
what does that even mean?
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<_death>
exactly
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* jmercouris
backs away into corner slowly
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<hjudt>
are there any best practices naming accessors? if i have a class "box" with a slot "id", should i call the accessor box-id or simply id? is there any advantage doing the former?
<Bike>
might avoid a collision with something
<Bike>
but getnerally no
<whoman>
Shinmera: how come you dont use autocomplete like M-/ ?
<whoman>
also, are you still working on trial ?
<Xach>
hjudt: I find it useful to think of the protocol of generic functions first, and then use defclass to fill in the easy blanks of specific methods. in that context it doesn't make sense to name the generic functions with the class name (usually).
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