p_l changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | ASDF 3.3.4
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<shangul> On ARM, Common Lisp code is at least about 4x slower than C. I tried SBCL, CLISP, GCL and CCL.
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
<beach> shangul: That is most likely due to the maintainers of the Common Lisp implementations spending less time on optimizing the code generation for ARM than the time they spent on x86.
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<shangul> beach, Good morning :)
<shangul> beach, You might be right...
<beach> The people working on C and C++ compilers have truly huge amounts of money and a huge number of people working on that stuff. SBCL has maybe 5 people working as volunteers.
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* Xach feels the excitement!
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<jackdaniel> because people stopped talking, so they probably code? :)
<Xach> I hope to coax out a new Quicklisp dist release today
<beach> Congratulations!
<jackdaniel> fingers crossed!
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<Xach> so very crossed
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<SAL9000> Silly question, perhaps, but has there been work on porting something like the Common Lisp pretty-printing system to C++?
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<dlowe> The intersection of people who care about Common Lisp pretty printing and the people who want to do a complex, involved pretty-printing system in C++ is vanishingly small.
<dlowe> Thank goodness SPICE lisp had money and people for a while
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<tychoish> https://github.com/clasp-developers/clasp I feel like those folks are the right place to start, but I don't actually knowe about any more specifics
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<Bike> we haven't ported the lisp pretty printing system to C++, since if we want to pretty print from C++ we can just call the lisp functions.
<Bike> also the lisp pretty printer is based pretty heavily on both special variables and runtime type discrimination, neither of which are all that C++
<tychoish> Bike are you a clasp human?
<Bike> i am a developer on clasp.
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<edgar-rft> you "only" need to implement Common Lisp in C++ and you have pretty-printing for free :-)
<tychoish> Nice! (sorry, I'm newish here so I don't really know people yet, and Ididn't mean to speak for you, just seemed like the right connections, seems like a cool project. :))
<Bike> no worries.
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<SAL9000> dlowe, Bike: long story short, $work involves maintaining a very complex system where I end up missing the CL pretty-print features. I was thinking that maybe someone had already done something similar that I could get inspiration from.
<Bike> which features do you have in mind? because when i think of the pretty printer i think of things like indenting LET blocks correctly, which you're probably not worried about
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<SAL9000> To be clear, I'm thinking about the low-level pretty-print infrastructure which is driven by http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_ppr_fi.htm et. al.
<Bike> oh, that stuff. well i can tell you clasp implements those in lisp, and we got it from ecl so there's probably nothing there either.
<SAL9000> I have a whole lot of data structures, and almost all of them have a virtual char* toString() {} which I'd love to use those things in
<SAL9000> any ideas on how to handle the contextual information (current column, etc.) in a sane way?
<SAL9000> I know how to implement the actual pretty-printing itself, it's making it fit into the C++ model that is more troublesome :(
* p_l would place bets how soon SAL9000 would use thread-local globals or just plain globals for a bunch of things but it would be sucker's bet
<SAL9000> p_l: it's that or virtual char* toString2(PPrintEnv* env = null) {}
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<p_l> SAL9000: for reasons of "Python can't into scope" I have way too many "global <something>" :|
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<SAL9000> don't Python globals only need that if you have a local with the same name?
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<p_l> SAL9000: I found out empirically that I could not trust symbol resolution from inside a function/method
<p_l> :|
<SAL9000> :(
<p_l> also dealing with lack of restarts
<SAL9000> having helped phoe with CLCS I miss those in both C++ and Python even more now
<p_l> I run so many functions inside loops now that have try/catch block inside in order to restart thing :|
<SAL9000> maybe you can do some unholy tricks with nested functions and @decorators?
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<p_l> some stuff is handled by decorator from a library called "retry" :|
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<Xach> i hoped in vain, some weird problems in today's dist building.
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