01:19 <hellekin> wpwrak: hardcooooore http://www.appropedia.org/Open-source_metal_3-D_printer

01:25 <wpwrak> i want one ;-)

01:30 <wpwrak> whitequark: since you mentioned "lost" reactors a while ago ... http://englishrussia.com/2009/01/06/abandoned-russian-polar-nuclear-lighthouses/

01:32 <whitequark> wpwrak: oh, that's neat

01:45 <wpwrak> note to tourists entering russia: always bring your geiger counter. if you're in an abandoned area, looking for a toilet, you never know what you may find

04:54 <kyak> are you saying i can't just dump my nuclear fridge?

04:55 <kyak> cool, that might be a stereotype about Russia - everything is radioactive as shit

04:56 <kyak> nuclear polar bears, drinking vodka and playing balalaikas :)

14:53 <rjeffries> wpwrak are you willing to say what make/model of mobile phone you use? (yes, there's a reason i'm asking. ;)

14:53 <rjeffries> s/what/which/

14:53 <qi-bot> rjeffries meant: "wpwrak are you willing to say which make/model of mobile phone you use? (yes, there's a reason i'm asking. ;)"

16:23 <wpwrak> rjeffries: hah, you'll be surprised :)

16:24 <wpwrak> rjeffries: the one i used for the last years is was a samsung x-830. the one i'm using now is some nokia cheap shit. don't even know the model number. basically the dumbest of the dumbphones.

16:25 <wpwrak> i don't like it, though. it's a bit too primitive even for my ascetic taste.

16:26 <rjeffries> that's cool. where I'm going is my conviction that, very smart guy that you are, your decision to use miniUSB rather than microUSB is not in tune with a larger reality. My experience is the opposite of what you said re how many microUSB things are in my life

16:27 <wpwrak> i looked into getting a sony xperia mini pro. that's a very small droid with keyboard. alas, based on a qualcom soc, having "only" 512 MB of RAM, and such, it's unclear whether cyanogenmod will continue to be available for it for long. (it's an older model, so it's already no longer supported with "official" updates)

16:27 <rjeffries> we have a very nice Logitech Bluetooth keyboard for my wife's desktop PC (backlit keys, GREAT "feel") an dit uses microUSB. (Battery life is superb, by teh way)

16:28 <whitequark> one thing I don't like about microUSB is that it has no through-hole receptacle variants

16:28 <wpwrak> well, the nokia doesn't even have USB ;)

16:28 <whitequark> either in the standard or in practice

16:28 <whitequark> that ought to make it way easier to pull off PCB.

16:28 <wpwrak> the samsung did, but over a proprietary connector

16:28 <rjeffries> I have to look long and hard in my office or shiop or home to locate any miniUSB. An older navigation thingie "Tom"Tom" uses that standard. some dev cards do as well.

16:29 <whitequark> otherwise I agree with rjeffries

16:30 <rjeffries> dumb idea, prolly: to increase the resistance to the microUSB recepticale being pulled off PCB by mechanical force... would a blod of cryaocate (sp) be so terrible? LOL

16:31 <rjeffries> this has to be a solved problem. seriously

16:31 <rjeffries> s/blod/blob/

16:31 <wpwrak> glue may be an option, yes. nothing that gives off cyanide gas when in the smt oven, though ...

16:32 <wpwrak> but yes, the industry has its glues that are oven-friendly

16:32 <whitequark> wpwrak: won't it apply a force in the wrong direction (pull instead of push)?

16:33 <rjeffries> funny (sorta kinda story0; i was at UPS store to ship a package, they have a few odds and ends for sale. They were selling cute (nice design) 1,000 mAmp USB power supplies for a few bucks. It struck me as an odd impuse item, alongside little LED flashlights and cheap earbuds

16:33 <whitequark> and be not significantly stronger than adhesion between metal plating and textolite

16:33 <whitequark> which are glued one to another too

16:35 <whitequark> (pull instead of push) what I mean is that glue applies a force to the PCB coating attempting to separate it from the base. through-hole mounting applies a force to a solder blob on the other side of PCB, attempting to squeeze it through hole (apart from other forces)

16:35 <whitequark> assuming indestructible receptacle

16:35 <rjeffries> to be fair (how boring...) the power adapter uses USB-A, as they all do. but my point is that virtually all consumer devices (except Apple, damn them) use a USB-A to microUSB cable.

16:39 <wpwrak> whitequark: you may be able to reach enough force to crack the pcb either way :) and yes, through-hole has a big advantage when pulling. but again, i'm not sure how far this would put you from the point where you only make somethign else crack

16:40 <whitequark> wpwrak: microUSB receptacles are "fairly easy" to lift

16:40 <whitequark> meaning it's way more than reasonable force but way less than you need to destroy receptacle/PCB/casing

16:41 <wpwrak> rjeffries: as i said, i haven't seen much usb micro yet. some USB 3.0 for hard disks, and smartphones. the rest still comes in mini. but maybe it's changing and you're just a bit ahead in the curve.

16:42 <wpwrak> whitequark: if they're easy to lift, glue should help :)

16:42 <whitequark> wpwrak: EU requires microUSB on smartphones for few years

16:43 <wpwrak> yes, i know that they're on smartphones. what i said is that i didn't see much micro on other things :)

16:43 <whitequark> (easy) maybe that was the wrong word. I just meant that PCB-trace link is the weakest in the system, not that it is particularly weak.

16:44 <wpwrak> maybe they;re just badly soldered. you get that from time to time, too. it's always suspicious when you can lift some component cleanly off its solder pads

16:45 <wpwrak> of course, it's nasty if the pads come with it ...

16:46 <whitequark> no, I mean with the pads

16:46 <whitequark> the data/power pads have tiny area. the shield pads have higher area and are much harder to lift, but if you're harsh with the device, it still happens

16:51 <wpwrak> yes yes, i mean these pads, too. the data pads are truly too small to offer much resistance :)

17:08 <whitequark> hm, did DocScrutinizer ragequit?

17:09 <wpwrak> maybe he's busy working on neo900 ? :)

17:28 <rjeffries> wpwrak I think teh earbuds with very flexible cables DocScrutinizer05 was talinking about are the Apple ones. I have those (found them on a hike, God's truth) and teh cables are indeed lovely.

17:47 <wpwrak> do they feel as robust as, say, a micro-usb cable ?

17:49 <rjeffries> no

17:55 <whitequark> earbud cables can be deceptive. I've seen more than one flimsy looking cable which could withstand surprising weights

17:57 <whitequark> a thin kapron strand has incredibly high resistance to linear strain, yet is flexible so as to be unnoticeable

17:58 <wpwrak> okay, here's then plan then. rjeffries keeps running around cupertino and picks up strange-looking cables. joerg analyzes them and builds his revolutionary connector. then whitequark gets some russian weight lifter for the promo video, where he will (unsuccessfully) try to rip the contraption apart

17:59 <whitequark> lol

18:09 <wpwrak> nice .. in group E for next year's soccer world championship, there will be two pairs of teams that can exchange insults in their respective native language :) group D has one. the rest will have to improvise.

18:15 <larsc> wpwrak: and you collect the money?

18:34 <wpwrak> larsc: excellent idea ! :)

19:09 <rjeffries> for USD $19 (plus shipping) Teensy 3.0 with ARM Cortex M4 is a lot of computer for the money.

19:09 <rjeffries> URL: https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy3.html

19:14 <wpwrak> cute. but if they're already going for a multilayer board, why not use an ST32F4xx ? that's also M4, but up to 168 MHz. up to 1 MB flash. and flashing is via DFU, so you don't need anything unusual on the host.

19:15 <wpwrak> can't beat the price, though

19:16 <wpwrak> well, belay that: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/STM32F4DISCOVERY/497-11455-ND/2711743

19:17 <wpwrak> not sure if you can flash that one with DFU, though. it may just bring out the wrong port (the chip has two USB OTG)

19:18 <paul_boddie> The Teensy still has the annoying characteristic of having more MHz than kilobytes of RAM.

19:18 <paul_boddie> That STM stuff is quite nice, though.

19:19 <paul_boddie> Hmm, is "SELECT * FROM comments ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 0, 100" some kind of new Internet meme?

19:19 <wpwrak> this one can be programmed via DFU. a bit more pricy, though: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/STM32-E407/1188-1093-ND/3726951

19:33 <wpwrak> maybe common around oracle hq ;-)

20:56 <rjeffries> I am ignorant and not super techie. what is brief description of DFU (I think device firmwar eupf=date) and does it use USB or... JTAG or what??

20:56 <larsc> usb

20:57 <rjeffries> I get page not found error on your two Digikey urls odd

20:57 <larsc> and it is super great since you do not need any special programmer or adapter or whatever to flash the device

21:00 <wpwrak> nods

21:00 <wpwrak> rjeffries: it's basically to USB what TFTP is to TCP/IP. a very very simple transfer protocoll.

22:13 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: cameo/fped2stl.pl: hack: maintain decimal point across flipping (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/0fc785d

23:19 <wpwrak> paul_boddie: ah, i think i found it. it may be part of a blog spam generator. only that it is supposed to be executed, not the code itself pasted. "comments" may be the list of comments they programmed into their spam generator.

23:20 <wpwrak> paul_boddie: just saw one of these on https://www.schneier.com/blog (already deleted, of course)