<DocScrutinizer05>
hey, whren you're all happy with fped and kicad, doesn't any of you have a surplus eagle license.txt file for me, that enables 16layer PCB multi-sheet-schematics layout and routing ?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
tracing down the stuff with gdb/strace to patch out the limitations seems annoying ;-) And right ATM I'm still not earning any money with eagle, so can't afford the 1800 bucks
<wpwrak>
16 layers ? a lot of power and ground planes ?
<wpwrak>
(1.8 kbucks) spend 1.8k, still have almost 50k. or had nikolaus made off to south america with the booty ? ;-)
<roh>
DocScrutinizer05: when its for the neo900, just write cadsoft an email
<roh>
maybe you get some license for the project. i know some people who did, or atleast a big number off the full licence
<roh>
i know the ccc bought a full eagle licence with 50 seats, but that one is usually fully booked/used
<roh>
DocScrutinizer05: hm.. i see it for 1385€ atm... full 1 seat licence?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, that's probably without autorouter or sth. would probably suffice
<DocScrutinizer05>
I dunno why but HNS is doing the autorouting with a program he wrote himself
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<roh>
DocScrutinizer05: nope.. full with everything
<roh>
hrhr.. vat... you get that back anyhow as 'commercial' entity
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, for now I'm no commercial entity, otherwise I'd simply but that stuff and not worry about a 1600EUR
<DocScrutinizer05>
buy*
<DocScrutinizer05>
OTOH maybe that's the solution to this as well as some other problems
<roh>
sure. elsewise you pay shitloads of taxes
<DocScrutinizer05>
I should resurrect my company
<DocScrutinizer05>
and then just send an invoice to GolDeliCo
<roh>
or let them buy it, or just a seat on their license
<DocScrutinizer05>
HNS rejected that
<roh>
i see.. much too easy
<roh>
s/much/way
<qi-bot>
roh meant: "i see.. way too easy"
<DocScrutinizer05>
anybody a hint regarding founding something like a GmbH or UG? Particularly I'd need somebody who knows doing the whole commercial/accounting crap
<DocScrutinizer05>
time to sort out the papers this neo900 project is based on. Sure we should've done that beforehand, but then Neo900 never had happened
<roh>
gismo did that. i think it simply costs money and time.
<DocScrutinizer05>
it needs knowhow
<roh>
the money mostly because you need somebody with a clue of accounting and paperwork
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd add VAT with other taxes and divide it by Pi
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly
<DocScrutinizer05>
and no clue where to find such an expert, or even how's the name of such experts
<roh>
i dont even do my freelancer paper stuff myself. its worth outsorceing that
<roh>
'steuerberater' mostly
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, for such stuff you got "Steuerberater"
<DocScrutinizer05>
not suited for doing a company clerk
<roh>
and they do book-keeping stuff also for money. just push em the papers
<DocScrutinizer05>
they do?
<roh>
sure, you need to write invoices and move money around yourself, but they can do the paperwork which is the evil followup.
<DocScrutinizer05>
cool, I might just have a talk to one of those guys
<DocScrutinizer05>
first of all I need a bank account that's exclusively for the company
<roh>
some even do the 'here is a moving box full of unopened letters from the last 8 years, i get audited!'-services (costs extra) ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, but what I'd need is more than some steuerberater doing the paperwork for me
<DocScrutinizer05>
I need somebody handling the stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
and coming up with ideas on *how* to handle it
<roh>
go to your local ihk, they have (usually for free) info material about funding a company/accounts.. etc... including a 'step by step' how works what
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, brilliant! thanks a lot!
<DocScrutinizer05>
will do
<roh>
i mean.. thats what these guys are paid for anyhow ;)
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<roh>
i should have done that. i was even too stupid to get some state funding for 'existenzgruender'... thus payd my health insurance myself from the first day
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's what I pondered for the last 2 weeks
<DocScrutinizer05>
since that's exactly my major problem right now
<roh>
there is some scheme, atleast there was where you only paid part of that for the first 2 years or so
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems I should give my "Arbeitsagentur" a visit
<roh>
i guess you'll need a businessplan for that, but its mostly a lyrical description of your plans
<roh>
that could help as well. these guys really like initiative. gives them the feeling of doing something sane for a change ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, I wonder how much it would help to point them to neo900.org
<roh>
since you already got a project you have atleast the bonus of not having to find something first!11! ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
or if they will istantly freeze my support and call the police
<roh>
nah.. just be careful about what you say
<DocScrutinizer05>
those guys always seem to do the most acerbating thing for their client's plans
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/acerbating/detrimental/
<qi-bot>
DocScrutinizer05 meant: "those guys always seem to do the most detrimental thing for their client's plans"
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* whitequark
bought some of that press-n-peel toner transfer thingy
<whitequark>
let's see how it fares again plain toner transfer and photoresist
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<paul_boddie>
DocScrutinizer05: About the Molex connector, what are the "mated stacking heights"? I only ask because that connector is 0.05mm different from another on DigiKey in that respect.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, molex suggested that 1.0mm as alternative, but it's not compatible
<paul_boddie>
Of course, with FFCs - which I guess this is all about - that could make all the difference. Stupid FFCs!
<DocScrutinizer05>
AIUI
<DocScrutinizer05>
the problem is we got the one side (let's say male) fixed, we need to find a matching "female" conector
<DocScrutinizer05>
molex today answered they don't have stock and don't know of any of their customers to have stock
<DocScrutinizer05>
and they seem not willing to produce one reel for us
<paul_boddie>
Lovely schematic! Even the fonts seem to be done using a plotter.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, the fonts are abysmal, and I don't like the schematics style
<DocScrutinizer05>
if you talk about the GTA04
<paul_boddie>
But H. Shimabukuro went to a lot of effort! :-)
<paul_boddie>
(I was looking at the Molex schematic.)
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh
<DocScrutinizer05>
Eagle fonts in schematics are worst I ever seen
<paul_boddie>
Difficult to make stuff out on these things unless you have experience, I guess.
<paul_boddie>
Now that I'm looking at one from JAE, I start to appreciate the Molex one. ;-)
<wpwrak>
the nasty bit are drawings that don't specify all the dimensions
<wpwrak>
or those that have sets without common points of reference
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: can you replace (rework) the one on the FPC ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
hardly
<DocScrutinizer05>
paul_boddie: I haven't checked
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: it's glued
<DocScrutinizer05>
tried to unsolder one with hot air. broke
<DocScrutinizer05>
and we can't ask customers to do that, even when they were not glued
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<wpwrak>
well, you could ship them with the board
<wpwrak>
but glue sucks
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<DocScrutinizer05>
ship what with the board?
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<wpwrak>
yes, if you can figure out a way to rework them, you can sell them to people who a) have an n900 they want to recycle but b) don't feel up to doing the rework themselves
<wpwrak>
of course, at a cost
<DocScrutinizer05>
them=what?
<wpwrak>
that fpc assembly, with a replacement connector (if you can't get the original, which seems increasingly likely)
<wpwrak>
not great but better than nothing. well, if you can find a way to defeat the glue. that may be tricky.
<DocScrutinizer05>
we would need to produce a FPC then with another maybe equally hard to source LCD connector, and a definitely hard to source other few parts, like front camera and ALS and proximity and whatnot else
<wpwrak>
ah, i was thinking of buying the ones you can get on ebay and reworking it. always assuming you can still find a way to do this despite the glue
<DocScrutinizer05>
and we would have to tell customers that they need to disassemble their display half, rip off the FPC and glue on a new one. Not exactly a simple process, Nokia care spoiled it on my N900 when they did a FPC repair
<DocScrutinizer05>
we rather get the connectors custom made for 10000EUR/1000qty
<DocScrutinizer05>
there are companies to offer such service
<wpwrak>
oh, good
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, a bit less horridly expensive would be even better
<DocScrutinizer05>
but it's still cheaper than rework of existing FPC or building new ones
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<DocScrutinizer05>
and more convenient to customers, too
<wpwrak>
yeah, it's a good plan B
<wpwrak>
it's also good that you contacted molex. if they know that you're looking for these connectors, maybe they'll keep a (passive) search running.
<DocScrutinizer05>
lickily we're almost at 250 devices already, so the connector is only 40EUR per device
<DocScrutinizer05>
luckily*
<wpwrak>
i'm sure you can get a lot more when you're getting ready for production
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: afaik he was a BASE jumper who didn't jump very well and thus was rotating in air
<whitequark>
and his chute, which was already at the border of its operating conditions, didn't open
<wpwrak>
whitequark: can you understand what the camera guy mumbled at the end ?
<wpwrak>
probably "he had the vodka bottle and now it's all broken [copulating cats"
<wpwrak>
err, the vodka bottleS, of course
<whitequark>
wpwrak: yes, sure. it's an one word expletive, roughly meaning "all is lost"
<whitequark>
appropriate for everything from being one rouble short for a vodka bottle to a beginning of an atomic war
<wpwrak>
i kinda thought that this was sort of all the same from the russian point of view :)
<whitequark>
etymologically, it's derived from the obscene term for female genitalia
<whitequark>
wpwrak: well, yes... :)
<wpwrak>
i wonder if there are language courses for swearing in russian. could be a useful cultural addition.
<wpwrak>
especially when translated back to a language others can understand :)
<whitequark>
english is really poor at swearing
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<DocScrutinizer05>
thanks!
<whitequark>
there's like seven words and all of them have specific and rather dull meaning
<DocScrutinizer05>
paul_boddie: first of all we'd love the find ONE lousy 500246471 to check if it actually is what we're confronted with
<whitequark>
whereas in russian you have quite a few roots and countless forms and combinations, and all of them are ambiguous
<whitequark>
when I have to swear in english, I find it easier to simply use "fuck" (and its derivatives) in place of all other expletives, since that, by removing incidental extraneous information, hopefully forces the listener to disambiguate it themselves and hear something more amusing, rewarding and/or descriptive
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<whitequark>
though I probably just come off as a person with a very small vocabulary
<viric>
it's hard to learn proper swearing in a foreign language
<wpwrak>
but one who puts a lot of thought into his swearing ;-)
<wpwrak>
viric: thanks to the intertubes and the online fora, this has gotten a lot easier in the last years
<viric>
English doesn't count
<viric>
because there is a very broad acceptance of speaking.
<viric>
noone of us natively speaks English, and we repeat "the English we see around".
<whitequark>
there's really no such a language as English
<whitequark>
s,a ,,
<viric>
it's like if I spoke russian with a non-russian
<viric>
and we tried to swear. both would understand, but a Russian would laugh on how bad we use swear words
<viric>
I bet an Englishman would notice hard differences among frasal verbs with 'fuck'
<whitequark>
phrasal ?
<viric>
phrazzoul
<viric>
:)
<paul_boddie>
DocScrutinizer05: You mean one in its loose form and not in its native habitat in an N900?
<paul_boddie>
whitequark: I think "copulating cats" has some mileage as new English swearing. :-)
<viric>
paul_boddie: are you English?
<viric>
I'd like to know how an Englishman interprets "a fig for the king"
<paul_boddie>
viric: Yes.
<viric>
can that be interpreted as "a finger for the king"? middle finger raised.
<paul_boddie>
I'm sure "I don't give a fig" could be interpreted liberally to mean something rude, so why not?
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<whitequark>
paul_boddie: I should use it more often
<paul_boddie>
English banter relies a lot on wordplay, but that often leads to English speakers expecting to do the same in other languages, and it often doesn't work out.
<whitequark>
in that video, it was used in a completely nonchalant, descriptive manner. cats are copulating. sun is bright. we are floating to the shore.
<whitequark>
that made it both more fitting and hilarious.
<paul_boddie>
I was surprised how calm they sounded. It's as if they were in an amphibious vehicle and weren't concerned about sinking.
<paul_boddie>
It all reminded me of the way stupid console racing games reward players who more or less "ride" the crash barrier around the course.
<whitequark>
that's how you are expected to behave, in a lot of social circles
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<DocScrutinizer05>
paul_boddie: yes
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<paul_boddie>
It's a shame they don't have actual photographs for all of those parts. It's hard to know what I'm looking at most of the time.
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's why it took me one complete day to find this 500246471
<whitequark>
surprisingly, FSF just did something sane
<larsc_>
o way
<larsc_>
no way
<whitequark>
that would be a nice laptop for people with a legitimate reason to be paranoid
<wpwrak>
cute :)
<whitequark>
reminds me of a days old article: turns out (I'm shocked, shocked) you can enable the webcam on a macbook without lighting up the LED, from userspace
<lekernel>
"The refurbished ThinkPad X60s from Gluglug start out with 1GB of RAM and a 60GB HDD" ?
<whitequark>
lekernel: yes, what's about it ?
<lekernel>
and 1024x768 LCD... ahem
<wpwrak>
whitequark: that's nice of apple. so you don't jump every time the NSA checks if you're still okay.
<lekernel>
well, that's rather small by today's standards
<whitequark>
lekernel: yes, it's inconvenient. but that's the price you pay for absence of backdoors.
<lekernel>
did they check the HDD firmware for backdoors too? :-)
<whitequark>
for reference, recent-ish (I think ~2011 onwards) Intel laptops all include so-called anti-theft technology
<lekernel>
and the wifi card firmware (PCIe can DMA all over the place), and ...
<whitequark>
which in layman's terms means that the BIOS, while the laptop is apparently off is able to connect to the WiFi/3G networks and receive commands remotely and execute them
<whitequark>
and it's a feature
<whitequark>
barring all NSA-related stuff, I don't even want to know how many holes are in that thing
<whitequark>
lekernel: I believe they installed the Atheros card with FOSS firmware
<whitequark>
so probably yes
<whitequark>
HDD isn't a likely attack vector, but here you can embed your Linux image in the BIOS, thus removing HDD from trust chain
<whitequark>
so it's also not a problem
<lekernel>
most HDD CPUs are powerful enough to run Linux (and have plenty of SDRAM disk cache for memory)
<whitequark>
assuming you encrypt and sign the data, what exactly can you do from a compromised HDD?
<whitequark>
you could obviously swap the bootsector and inject a backdoor. I've addressed that above.
<whitequark>
incidentally, this can also be fixed by EFI SecureBoot, if you got your keys into it (easy) and trust EFI vendor to not fuck up (ha.)
<lekernel>
send rogue signals over SATA to exploit the 1337 vulnerabilities that drivers surely have. but yeh.
<lekernel>
it gets hard :)
<lekernel>
where's the FOSS firmware for Atheros?
<whitequark>
and this is why you probably should have systems languages with strong type systems :p