<syruponcereal>
sandstorm administration is maddening
<syruponcereal>
I really shouldn't blame it though
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<syruponcereal>
its the mad things I try to do with it
<syruponcereal>
I have a Sandstorm server sitting behind a Comcast combo gateway
<syruponcereal>
so I can't use the server on my home network
<syruponcereal>
cause of DNS
<syruponcereal>
so I set up a DNS server that points the domains that the Sandstorm server uses at it's local IP
<syruponcereal>
and now, on a sad old iPad 1 running Chrome, now I get "Oops, looks like there's no route on the client or the server for url: "example.com"
<syruponcereal>
and I can't figure out what's happening
<kentonv>
syruponcereal: that error message happens when the client-side javascript throws an exception at startup
<syruponcereal>
hmm
<kentonv>
I wish the error were better but we don't control the router library
<syruponcereal>
it might be the ancient version of chrome
<kentonv>
quite possibly, though it would be interesting to know the exact error
<kentonv>
if you can get at the JS console somehow
<syruponcereal>
the log shows nothing
<kentonv>
not sure if it's possible to open a JS console on mobile chrome
<frigginglorious>
just the README, to see if I am explaining things right
<frigginglorious>
on how to set up for (other) noobs
<asheesh>
"This app's purpose is to demonstrate how easy it is to produce a functioning application that has multi-user features and built-in (read: ignored) security with Sandstorm."
<asheesh>
This is a little hard to read. I suggest instead:
<asheesh>
"This app's purpose is to demonstrate how easy it is to produce a functioning aplication that has multi-user features and built-in security, where the app relies entirely on Sandstorm for that security."
<asheesh>
"This app's purpose is to demonstrate how easy it is to produce a functioning aplication that has multi-user features and built-in security, where the app relies entirely on Sandstorm for that security, and achieves it through zero lines of code."
<frigginglorious>
dig it. fixing :D
<asheesh>
It's cool if you can use GitHub releases for the *.SPK file, although if you don't want to, feel free; it's just nice to have everything in the same system. Info on releases: https://github.com/blog/1547-release-your-software
<asheesh>
- vagrant-spk ssh # on some app that has a .sandstorm/ directory
<asheesh>
- spk --help # which Kenton already said; specifically look at listkeys
<asheesh>
Oh, but note that vagrant-spk stores the keyring in a sort-of unusual place, except that it's now the most common, so maybe we should change the default for spk. Let me dig up that path.
<kentonv>
I'm not sure if there is a command to remove a key, but there is a command to extract keys, and you can "cat" a bunch of extracted keys together to produce a new keyring
<Mitar>
thanks
<Mitar>
yes, I see that there are just 128 bytes combined together
<asheesh>
mitar: You'll probably need to pass '--keyring=/host-dot-sandstorm/sandstorm-keyring' to spk; see also the source code of 'vagrant-spk' (which is a hopefully-readable Python script)
<asheesh>
frigginglorious: Also, you can tell people they can sign up for a free account on Oasis if they don't want to bother installing it themselves, if you want.
<asheesh>
frigginglorious: Also "dieStorm" sounds like you're saying "die, [sand]storm", which sounds negative, so maybe call it 'secure-die-rolling' or 'd20' or 'd20storm' or 'rpg-dice' or something else, but I can live with the current name, but I figured I should mention.
<frigginglorious>
asheesh: i wasnt aware of the App Demos on Oasis. It certainly isn’t something that belongs on the App Market, and i thought there wasn’t a way to do it on Oasis for free!
<asheesh>
Are you *sure* it doesn't belong in the app market? It maybe does belong in the app market.
<Mitar>
@kentonv: do we want to use Meteor.settings.public.sandstorm, because I could just make __meteor_runtime_config__.SANDSTORM
<Mitar>
then we would not interfere with settings at all
<Mitar>
the issue is, nobody else is using that at the moment and they would have to change
<asheesh>
But regardless, appdemo will work anyway, even if it's not in the app market, which is half a bug and half a neat trick.
<Mitar>
but it is backwards compatible, because they are using their settings anyway for now
<asheesh>
frigginglorious: re: "install for development" section in the README: Since you have already have created a .sandstorm/ other people should not run 'setupvm meteor' nor 'init'
<frigginglorious>
asheesh: hahaha, I was going to call it diceStorm, but it dieStorm seemed to roll off tongue better :P If I work on a full RPG gaming app, I will consider changing it.
<Mitar>
I would go with __meteor_runtime_config__.SANDSTORM
<asheesh>
re: "Issues?" - we could probably embed a copy of the base box's URL in the vagrant-spk default output, and therefore your Vagrantfile, so that way it would be compatible with older versions of Vagrant. It's too bad we haven't done that yet, but consider filing a vagrant-spk bug to ask us to do that.
<Mitar>
and see that one of keys is PUBLIC_SETTINGS
<Mitar>
we would put things next to that key
<Mitar>
instead into that key
<kentonv>
I feel like setting Meteor.settings.public.sandstorm automatically would be helpful to apps and not likely to cause any harm.
<Mitar>
current things in __meteor_runtime_confige__ for Oasis are: "{"meteorRelease":"METEOR@1.3.1","meteorEnv":{"NODE_ENV":"production","TEST_METADATA":"{}"},"PUBLIC_SETTINGS":{"build":159,"kernelTooOld":false,"allowDemoAccounts":true,"allowDevAccounts":false,"isTesting":false,"hideTroubleshooting":true,"wildcardHost":"*.oasis.sandstorm.io","quotaEnabled":true,"stripePublicKey":"pk_live_bkrz8iFkfEeXDsdIqzDNdSkH","allowUninvited":true},"ROOT_URL":"https://oasis.s
<Mitar>
to me that fact that it runs on Sandstorm feels more like meteorRelease and meteorEnv, and not so much like settings
<kentonv>
yes but how are apps then going to detect, client-side, that they're on Sandstorm?
<Mitar>
if (__meteor_runtime_confige__.SANDSTORM)
<kentonv>
__meteor_runtime_config__ is meant to be private to meteor
<kentonv>
app code isn't supposed to be reaching into it
<asheesh>
frigginglorious: These slides are great. You should totally give this talk in more places!
<kentonv>
asheesh, frigginglorious: +1
<Mitar>
there are tons of Meteor packages reaching into it, just grep core packages
<frigginglorious>
aww, you guys are making me blush!
<asheesh>
frigginglorious: I would replace this text: "For an editable version of slides in Sandstorm, download a copy of the HackerSlides app here." with: "You can fork the slides and get your own, editable version by taking this [grain backup](https://whatever.zip) and doing a 'Restore backup...' on your own account on whatever Sandstorm server you like."
<Mitar>
I see it like this: settings is something user configures the app
<Mitar>
__meteor_runtime_config__ is something app/packages pass to the client/running context
<frigginglorious>
well, our own mrdomino_ informed me about toorcamp. And now I’m going and giving a workshop :P http://toorcamp.toorcon.net/talks/
<ocdtrekkie_>
asheesh: I clicked a link you put in here.
<ocdtrekkie_>
And came up with issue #1884
<asheesh>
That's what happens when you hang out with mrdomino_
<simonv3>
Not sure if this has been shared already, but relevant to conversation about short urls
<asheesh>
Aw man ocdtrekkie_ I wrote that error : P
<syruponcereal>
what's going on?
<syruponcereal>
just took a nice long shower
<ocdtrekkie_>
asheesh: I file bug reports without bias.
<ocdtrekkie_>
:P
<ocdtrekkie_>
Sorry
<syruponcereal>
topkek
<asheesh>
I'm not sorry. I am literally lol-ing, though.
<kentonv>
Mitar: OK, I give in.
<ocdtrekkie_>
Also, asheesh, now you know: If you make something URL like in IRC....
<ocdtrekkie_>
I'm gonna click it.
<asheesh>
My favorite website is about:blank
<asheesh>
Honestly I do visit about:blank often; like when I'm in a public-ish space and I don't want people seeing my Chromium "List of sites you visit often" default homepage, I intentionally navigate to about:blank
<ocdtrekkie_>
That's smart.
<asheesh>
Whoa frigginglorious your app has a great icon.
<ocdtrekkie_>
My recent sites screen is visible in the Sandstorm talk I did.
<syruponcereal>
genious
<syruponcereal>
i think I'm going to use that in school now
<frigginglorious>
asheesh: thank wikipedia :P
<syruponcereal>
even though there's only like 3 weeks left
<asheesh>
I accidentally said out loud: "Whoa, this is _awesome_" when playing with dieStorm.
<ocdtrekkie_>
I wanna try it
<asheesh>
It took me a sec to understand the UI, but it was pretty sweet once I did.
<ocdtrekkie_>
A big highlight, is if you've shared the grain, it looks like you have a record of dice rolls.
<ocdtrekkie_>
So you can't cheat and reroll without others knowing.
<syruponcereal>
oh
<syruponcereal>
so it's just a tech demo
<asheesh>
simonv3: I saw that. It's fascinating and somewhat depressing and I agree totally relevant to discussions of short URLs.
<frigginglorious>
syruponcereal: for now, yeah :P I was thinking it would be nice to include into Rocket.Chat
<asheesh>
frigginglorious: If you are willing to, consider renaming it from "instance" to "dice roller", or something like that.
<asheesh>
Then it's "New dice roller" in the UI.
<frigginglorious>
and at the bottom of rocket.chat in the app market, there would be a footer that sais “Or install Rocket.Chat with dice”
<asheesh>
frigginglorious: Did you see my remarks above about "setupvm" and "init" being unnecessary, btw?
<ocdtrekkie_>
frigginglorious: I am excited to see this thing in the app market.
<syruponcereal>
can we get discussion on the MediaWiki version being ancient
<frigginglorious>
ocdtrekkie_ asheesh you guys are being too nice. But yeah, maybe i will hack on it a bit and polish it.
<ocdtrekkie_>
syruponcereal: What's to discuss? It is definetly old. :P
<asheesh>
frigginglorious: Meh. I think you should publish it as-is to the app market, with a description and/or app title saying "Tech demo: Dice rolling app"
<ocdtrekkie_>
frigginglorious: I think the ability to generate random numbers that are reasonably random in a way I can easily maintain accountability and record is useful.
<asheesh>
And you should explain the limitations of the app, and the fact that you don't really care if people use it, and then they can use it or not.
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<syruponcereal>
i had to dig for 2 hours yesterday to find a compatible wikipedia dump
<ocdtrekkie_>
And yeah, I mean, you could maybe ad a blurb like 'click a dice size' and a ' previous roll log' maybe? I'd like timestamps with rolls. But that's like... it.
<ocdtrekkie_>
Simple apps, frigginglorious is one of the places Sandstorm really shines. :D
<kentonv>
When we have embedding, it'll be neat to embed grains into Rocket.Chat channels. Then you could have Rocket.Chat with dice without having to build your own Rocket.Chat package.
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<hexx>
gogs or gitlab
<dwrensha>
hexx: I tend to use gitweb
<asheesh>
I tend to use gogs.
<hexx>
I'm in the need of a prettier UI than what gitweb provides
<hexx>
I'm in middle school and my Computer Literacy teacher has no idea how to work anything aside from Infinite Campus
<asheesh>
BTW, Grant Potter at UNBC <https://twitter.com/grantpotter> is also doing educational Sandstorm deployments, in case you want an introduction.
<hexx>
no like I'm a student
<asheesh>
That's fine!
<hexx>
oh, huh, thanks for that like
<hexx>
*link
<hexx>
is it possible to log in to something running under the Sandstorm Hypervisor?
<zarvox>
hexx: Sort of. nsenter with the right arguments will let you enter the kernel namespaces, but won't set up the seccomp sandbox.
<hexx>
ah
<hexx>
alright
<hexx>
that should be added though
<asheesh>
Agreed. I plan to write a design document for some of those details in the next few days.
<zarvox>
Probably. It would certainly help with debugging apps, especially if you could use it in combination with things like strace in production.
<hexx>
should I make an issue?
<asheesh>
Let me check if we have one first.
<hexx>
the reason I want to know how is because at my house, I have a project going where there's going to be 1 tablet in every room locked to Sandstorm, and I've been asked to roll out Wikipedia to the tablets.
<hexx>
the database dump is to big to be uploaded to mediawiki, so I needed to log into the container to import it through terminak
<hexx>
*terminal
<asheesh>
We don't seem to have a sandstorm-level issue for it, so if you're willing to file one, that's helpful. It's going to take more than a week or so to get to it, so if you have this short-term need, you might want to fiddle with some of the following things yourself:
<asheesh>
or something like that, using sqlite3 from outside the grain.
<asheesh>
It's interesting; someone else was actually interested in setting up Wikipedia-within-a-grain recently.
<hexx>
was his name syruponcereal?
<asheesh>
No, someone I met in person in SF; Daniel Krol
<hexx>
oh
<asheesh>
He was looking into using Kiwix for that.
<hexx>
ok
<hexx>
I have an XML dump stored
<asheesh>
He and I worked on it a ltitle bit, but I think he didn't get all the way to the end. But maybe I should ping him sometime to find out how that's going.
<hexx>
would it just be easier to make an SPK with an iframe to the site?
<hexx>
i'm probably about to get told to never use iframes
<asheesh>
To Wikipedia itself? Hah, I guess that might work, so long as none of the security rules in place prevent it.
<asheesh>
Sandstorm is an avid user of iframes, for better or for worse.
<asheesh>
In the long run, we'd block new apps from doing that, but we don't enforce a bunch of those restrictions yet.
<asheesh>
hexx: You could try changing the PHP sample app in the Sandstorm docs & tutorial to do that, and see if it works.
<hexx>
my method I'm going to use is symbolic of my life: a bunch of dirty workarounds
<hexx>
can I use powershell on windows for vagrant-spk?
<asheesh>
I've pinged Daniel in case we can progress on Kiwix stuff soon.
<asheesh>
hexx: see docs, but short answer: yes
<asheesh>
afk briefly
<hexx>
k
<hexx>
I can't wait for bash on windows to be released