<pie___> though the fact that ive been pretty sleepless lately so i might just be a bit bonkers
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<rqou> just harassed $HOUSEMATE (ex-Mozilla intern) about why my code is slow
<rqou> i hate browsers
<rqou> azonenberg
<rqou> apparently if you touch DOM you lose
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> Time to port to canvas?
<rqou> yeah that's what he said
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<azonenberg> honestly at that point i'd write it in a standalone language like python
<azonenberg> you've lost most of the benefits of the browser by then
<azonenberg> and you dont need a server on the other end
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<rqou> aah crap
<rqou> i just tried to plug in a usb cable into your board and the connector sheared off
<rqou> whelp, going to deal with this tomorrow
<rqou> azonenberg: no solder under the connector housing?
<azonenberg> rqou: the recommended land pattern didnt have any
<azonenberg> I did have problems with that connector being a bit weak though
<rqou> the land pattern i used definitely has pads under the shell
<azonenberg> for hirose ux60s?
* azonenberg will have to check the datasheet again
<rqou> hmm no i think it was some micro-b connector
<azonenberg> in any case i made that board like 3 years ago
<azonenberg> i've since started putting dabs of epoxy or something around that connector
<rqou> i think mini-b normally doesn't have it
<azonenberg> but didnt go back and redo old boards
<azonenberg> Yeah this is mini, not micro
<rqou> afaik mini isn't "supposed to" need it
<rqou> micro definitely does because the pads are smaller and weaker
<azonenberg> yeah well mini-b connectors shearing off has been a chronic problem for me
<azonenberg> in one case it sheared at the shell connection but the pads stayed soldered, then lifted off the board :p
<azonenberg> Most of my recent stuff has been ethernet and barrel jacks, both PTH
<rqou> yup, just happened on this board
<azonenberg> or big bulky SMT connectors like q-strip that have both through-board (not soldered) alignment/shear pins and lots of solder
<rqou> good thing i remembered to grab the 30/32awg wire from my parents' house
<rqou> i hate connectors
<azonenberg> Me too :p
<azonenberg> funny thing, that wiring defect on the board when you were here
<azonenberg> inspired me to go make a board for practicing pcb rework
<azonenberg> Long overdue
<rqou> btw thoughts on usb type-c?
<rqou> cram all the things?
<azonenberg> lain is drinking the full kool-aid
<azonenberg> I have no experience with it and refuse to comment
<azonenberg> in general i think usb is a disaster and i only use it b/c i have no viable alternatives
<azonenberg> as soon as i finish starshipraider i can stop using usb-jtag
<azonenberg> None of my boards have used usb for anything (except maybe power) in quite a while
<azonenberg> i just wish there was a smaller standard for 802.3 that wasnt quite the size of an rj45
<rqou> so i've been thinking of making a microcontroller firmware that does "all the bootstrap/debug things"
<azonenberg> i did too, then i realized i wanted a LA and other stuff
<rqou> i really want ethernet but don't want the cost of the phy+magnetics if I won't be using them
<azonenberg> and starshipraider was born
<rqou> i wonder if i can somehow abuse usb alternate functions and run rmii on them
<azonenberg> lain has plans to run 1000baseT over usb-c alternate functions
<azonenberg> ask about how far they got
<rqou> but that still requires the phy on every board
<azonenberg> (you still need a phy but i think the plan was for magnetics to be on the far end)
<azonenberg> and a 10/100 PHY is dirt cheap now
<azonenberg> magnetics/rj45 is the pricey bit
<azonenberg> And mainly, my goal is to purge ftdi from my lab
<rqou> hmm
<azonenberg> Not because of the bricking controversy, i have no real problem with that
<rqou> why not just sgmii/base-X then?
<azonenberg> But because even the genuine silicon has been unreliable for me :p
<azonenberg> random dropped data etc
<azonenberg> on official programmers from digilent
<azonenberg> That, and the PC driver hogs CPU with busy-waiting and stuff
<azonenberg> open a half dozen ftdi handles and you have a cpu core pretty well loaded
<azonenberg> it forks off a new thread for each ahdnle
<azonenberg> handle*
<azonenberg> and the thread doesnt just sit around and sleep either
<azonenberg> it does... idk what, something
<rqou> anyways, a cheap stm32 or whatever doesn't support gigabit ethernet
<rqou> but it has rmii
<rqou> which apparently just barely fits into usb type c alternate functions
<azonenberg> Any with integrated PHY?
<rqou> i'm not aware of integrated-phy uCs at all
<azonenberg> i saw one not long ago
<azonenberg> 10/100
<azonenberg> i forget if pic or st
<rqou> maybe pic, but i won't use pics :P
<azonenberg> not even pic32? a little mips never hurt anybody
<rqou> maaaaybe a pic32
<azonenberg> (i freely admit 8-bit pics are pretty awfful)
<azonenberg> awful*
<azonenberg> this reminds me i need to finish playing with my greenpak 10baset phy
<azonenberg> see if i can cram a fully functional phy into a greenpak or two
<rqou> yeah, i might try a hack of rmii on a type-c
<azonenberg> and then a dongle with a phy on the other end?
<rqou> yeah
<azonenberg> i mean it could work on short range but i wouldnt expect it to go very far
<azonenberg> its single ended signaling and not all that sensitive on the receiver
<azonenberg> baseT is differential and designed for a bit more abuse
<azonenberg> For my FPGA cluster i plan to use baseX on the backplane
<azonenberg> as that doesnt need a PHY if your FPGA has transceivers
<azonenberg> but is differential and can handle some noise etc
<azonenberg> also, i got busy with something else today but hopefully after work tomorrow i can put more time into the greenpak tools
<azonenberg> i want to bang out the last slg4662x features in the next few weeks
<azonenberg> then do the 140 and make a full beta 1.0 release of the greenpak tool suite
<azonenberg> with 100% gp4 family device support
<rqou> hmm yeah hacky usb-c alternate function looks pretty neat for a "bootstrap and stuff" solution that can be used by people other than you :P
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> see i prefer to just leave jtag
<azonenberg> and let the end user figure out how to hook it up
<rqou> you can run jtag over an alternate function of usb-c too :P
<azonenberg> um, yeah
<azonenberg> no thanks
<azonenberg> xilinx 2x7 connector ftw
<azonenberg> sure, its not small, but FPGAs generally arent small
<rqou> there's a special "debug accessory" mode for that
<azonenberg> :p
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<rqou> you don't need to implement power delivery unlike a true alternate function
<rqou> also, xilinx 2x7 is weird :P
<rqou> i'm used to seeing ARM 2x10
<rqou> or ad-hoc 1x{4,5,6}
<azonenberg> i use xilinx 2x7 on everything, even non-xilinx parts
<azonenberg> b/c thats what all my jtag dongles use
<rqou> whereas most/all of mine are ARM 2x10
<azonenberg> xilinx is smaller than arm
<azonenberg> and its still fairly durable
<azonenberg> unlike some of the fine pitch mezzanine connectors i've seen in phones etc
<rqou> wow why is usb-c so complicated?
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<rqou> some of the TI usb-c controller parts have firmware
<rqou> wtf
<rqou> i wonder if i'm allowed to cheat and just use the "debug accessory" mode
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<pie_> when i say "research grade software" what does that make you think
<nats`> sotware which work on only one machine
<nats`> the one of the guy who wrote it
<lain> ^
<pie_> i figured :/
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<qu1j0t3> nats`: haha
<qu1j0t3> i mean, "accurate"
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<azonenberg> lolol
<azonenberg> new xcell daily blog from xilinx
<azonenberg> ... about coolrunners
<azonenberg> apparently they're committing to at least 7 more years of product support
<azonenberg> Sounds like the perfect time to work on a toolchain :p
<azonenberg> Give people an alternative to ISE
* azonenberg might start playing with initial support after work
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<lain> lol
<azonenberg> lain: when me and rqou were testing, gp4par + yosys ran in well under a second and it took 10+ seconds to ISE-build even a simple coolrunner bitfile
<azonenberg> of course my toolchain is massively smaller too
<lain> hah
<rqou> azonenberg: your board has the ft232? not 2232?
<azonenberg> rqou: Yes, the 232H (not the 232R) has jtag support
<azonenberg> no additional uart but i only needed one channel
<azonenberg> back in the day when the 1st gen 2232 came out, it was the only part with jtag support
<azonenberg> so everyone used it
<azonenberg> the next gen 2232 kept the MPSSE, but they also added it to the next gen 232
<rqou> oh so this does have mpsse
<rqou> oh wait shit is this high-speed?
<azonenberg> yes
<rqou> my crappy rework job might not quite work in this case
<azonenberg> usb can survive a lot of abuse
<azonenberg> its probably fine :p
<azonenberg> And you can do jtag up to 30+ Mbps with the 232h
<rqou> ok it did enumerate
<rqou> also btw if you don't practice enough your pcb rework skills really do decay
<azonenberg> I know, this is why i'm making this practice board
<rqou> i haven't really done rework in over a year and wow i can feel it
<rqou> also, apparently your connector did have superglue or something on it and was a huge pain to try and reuse
<rqou> so now serial #3 has a "captive cable" :P
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> i was like, i thought i had glued things after i started having problems
<rqou> not enough apparently
<rqou> i've so far had a good experience with the hirose zx micro connectors
<rqou> but since you're moving away from usb anyways, meh
<azonenberg> i have yet to have an rj45 break off on me :p
<rqou> also, is this a new PID? "Future Technology Devices International, Ltd Dev board JTAG (FT232H based)"
<azonenberg> Yes
<rqou> i've never seen something show up as that
<azonenberg> That's my own PID
<azonenberg> allocated out of FTDI's vendor namespace
<rqou> oh wow you even bought a PID?
<rqou> that's so much effort :P
<azonenberg> FTDI gives you up to 8 for free to use with their VID
<azonenberg> on request
<azonenberg> the only caveat is, you have to use them with their silicon and VID
<azonenberg> I had a good reason
<azonenberg> tl;dr the default PID loads the UART driver
<azonenberg> you can blacklist the uart driver and prevent any other FTDI stuff from working in uart mode
<azonenberg> Or you can just not use the default PID
<azonenberg> there doesnt seem to be a good way to have multiple instances of the same PID with different drivers attached
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<azonenberg> I dont know how it works on windows but this was the case on *nix
<rqou> i thought there's a bit in the eeprom that controls whether the uart driver loads?
<azonenberg> Not that i recall
<azonenberg> its done by the driver with just the vid/pid before attaching
<rqou> hmm, i definitely recall an "enable vcp" bit
<rqou> maybe it only affects windows
<rqou> meh, need more practice
<rqou> also, why is this board 4 layers?
<azonenberg> Why not?
<azonenberg> 4 is my standard for everything these days, makes routing super easy and much better signal integrity
<rqou> what about $$$?
<azonenberg> $10 a square inch
<azonenberg> at oshpark
<azonenberg> for 3 units
<rqou> so this was only ~$60 total
<rqou> not too bad actually
<azonenberg> prboably less
<rqou> but an xbox modchip board is still cheaper :P :P
<azonenberg> $82 for 3 blank boards
<azonenberg> so $27 per blank board
<azonenberg> plus the components
<rqou> but a totally-not-suspicious-at-all "XC2C64A development board" is only $5 :P :P http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xilinx-XC2C64A-CoolRunner-II-CPLD-Development-Board-XILINX-Mini-Board-48MHz-new-/141951185368?hash=item210cf331d8:g:rswAAOSwiO9XieG2
<rqou> oh heh just the next link down a different seller is outright mentioning xbox360 in the description
<azonenberg> lolol
<rqou> actually most of them do
<rqou> i guess as long as the cpld ships blank it's legal?
<azonenberg> Even if its not blank
<azonenberg> what does it matter?
<azonenberg> is it a DMCA issue?
<rqou> maybe?
<rqou> idk, IANAL
<azonenberg> i guess it depends on what its glitching
<azonenberg> If it ships from china DMCA doesnt apply anyway :p
<rqou> so i'm not familiar with the xbox360 "scene"
<azonenberg> copyright law there basically doesnt exist :p
<rqou> is this the reset glitch board or some ODD interposer board?
<rqou> hmm this is almost certainly the reset glitch board actually
<rqou> not enough pins to be an ODD interposer of any kind
<rqou> also, iirc xbox360 has a sata-based ODD
<rqou> unlike a Certain Other Console
<jn__> which other console? the ps3?
<rqou> i was thinking the wii's weird parallel bus
<jn__> ah, that one
<rqou> (also the part where the wii doesn't authenticate the disk drive so people replaced the entire drive with an fpga)
<jn__> at least they seem to have fixed it with the wiiu
<jn__> lol
<jn__> nintendo. it's entertainment all the way down, even in their security
<rqou> nintendo crypto is hilariously bad
<rqou> although i have to admit i learned a lot (about how not to do things) from them
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<rqou> azonenberg: opinions on suction devices for removing chips for rework?
<rqou> normally i tend to be a bit impatient and end up with bent legs when I rely on just tweezers
<rqou> azonenberg: in other news i just discovered the NOREDUCE attribute for xst
<rqou> and it makes cpldfit blow up on my 57-p-term test
<rqou> cpldfit thinks it needs 62 macrocells
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<azonenberg> Oh nice
<azonenberg> So, mission accomplished as far as feedback goes?
<rqou> not yet
<rqou> i haven't been able to actually get it to fit properly
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> oh
<rqou> i think cpldfit can't do it
<rqou> i'm about to try setting up the hardware so i can just outright flip the bit in the .jed and test it
<azonenberg> lolol
<azonenberg> Go for it
<azonenberg> there is an xc2c512 on that
<rqou> cpldfit is a buggy piece of crap
<azonenberg> a) i have never seen one used before and b) on a virtex7 board
<rqou> btw my father recommended to try a much older ISE if cpldfit is being stupid
<rqou> anyone want to volunteer? :P
<azonenberg> lool
<azonenberg> i'd rather just black-box it at this point
<azonenberg> i mean we're 99% of the way to knowing what everything does
<rqou> yeah i'm going to finish having lunch and then try it
<azonenberg> At this point we can probably black-box those two bits easily enough
<azonenberg> At which point we have a full xc2c32a bitstream spec
<azonenberg> i want to delayer a 2c64a soon and figure out that bitstream
<rqou> oh wait that virtex-7 board is "only" USD$7k?
<rqou> that's pretty "cheap" :P
<azonenberg> i was more commenting on the coolrunner
<azonenberg> like, xilinx must still like them
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<azonenberg> also the 64a...
<azonenberg> Looking at the JED file it seems like the ZIA is 16 bits and bit #12 always goes from 1 to 0 when the row is used
<azonenberg> then exactly two other bits do as well
<azonenberg> conjecture: might be a 2-level mux
<azonenberg> i'll investigate more as time permits
<azonenberg> So bit #12 is likely the inverted "drive high" bit that supplies a default state when not used
<azonenberg> I'll take a quick look at the top metal layer of one under the scope when i get off work
<rqou> it's interesting how the zia stuff doesn't seem to be data-driven unlike the rest of the flow
<azonenberg> what do you mean
<azonenberg> there's files related to it in the ISE dir
<rqou> the zia bit encoding doesn't seem to be in the xbr/data directory
<azonenberg> But i didnt want to look at them
<azonenberg> Oh
<rqou> the zia layout is though
<azonenberg> I havent looked at the actual bit coding
<rqou> but it only maps to "Gn" values
<azonenberg> I'll look at the 64a zia in more detail after i get out
<azonenberg> i feel like i can probably black box it knowing what i do about the 32a
<azonenberg> the 128 and larger, less so
<azonenberg> But again lets finish the 32 first
<rqou> oh nice openocd finally fixed this problem: "Support for new FTDI based adapters can be added competely through configuration files, without the need to patch and rebuild OpenOCD. "
<azonenberg> :)
<rqou> i was definitely super tired of that problem
<azonenberg> rqou: oh also
<azonenberg> i just realized
<azonenberg> you dont need to use 56 product terms
<azonenberg> You just need to AND more than 40 inputs into a single p-term
<azonenberg> Because then you run out of ZIA-PLA routes
<azonenberg> and that cannot be optimized around
<rqou> ahh right
<rqou> hmm still eating food right now, brb :P
<azonenberg> So, basically set up 21 input pins and a 21-bit shift register
<azonenberg> and AND the FFs and signals with each other
<azonenberg> you're guaranteed to get a combinatorial feedthrough
<azonenberg> actually you dont even need a shreg
<azonenberg> just do
<azonenberg> input wire [20:0] din;
<azonenberg> reg[20:0] din_ff;
<azonenberg> input wire clk;
<azonenberg> always @(posedge clk) din_ff <= din;
<azonenberg> if(din == din_ff) blah
<azonenberg> or more like
<azonenberg> assign dout = (din == din_ff)
<azonenberg> that's a 42-bit input comparison that should use an extra path through the zia
<azonenberg> and should easily fit in a 2c32a
<azonenberg> Also starshipraider host board arriving friday
<azonenberg> i know what i'm doing this weekend :D
<rqou> nope, tried what you suggested and cpldfit still thinks it doesn't fit
<rqou> wow cpldfit is garbage
<azonenberg> hmm
<azonenberg> lolol
<rqou> it'll be hilarious if (other than the xor gate) we can get better results than xilinx on their own parts
<azonenberg> I think we can
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<rqou> azonenberg: even after reading the code i still don't get how your jtag mux is supposed to work
<rqou> wow there's so much inverting, mirroring, etc going on here
<rqou> that was super confusing
<rqou> ok i don't know what's up but the xc2c64a is confusing the heck out of openocd