marcan changed the topic of #asahi-re to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | Hardware / boot process / firmware interface reverse engineering | WARNING: this channel (only) may contain binary reverse engineering discussion | RE policy: https://alx.sh/re (MANDATORY READ) | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi-re
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<davidrysk[m]> https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/issues/2 -- isn't this explicitly forbidden by policy?
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<davidrysk[m]> TellowKrinkle: I see you're here ^^ see above :)
<TellowKrinkle[m]> Don't think it's explicitly forbidden but it's also definitely not explicitly not-forbidden
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<davidrysk[m]> Hm well you're not decompiling or disassembling their llvm
<TellowKrinkle[m]> It's linking against their dylib using the open source llvm headers
<TellowKrinkle[m]> It does use the list of exported symbols extracted from their dylib though
<davidrysk[m]> Yeah, marcan will have to comment on that
<davidrysk[m]> whether listing exported symbols counts as decompiling/disassembliong
<TellowKrinkle[m]> My biggest worry would be that it prints information from inside the dylib that isn't otherwise included in assembled object code
<TellowKrinkle[m]> If you just use the llc included as a means to assemble ir from an intel Mac I doubt it would be an issue
<TellowKrinkle[m]> (It prints the associated instruction metadata from llvm tablegen)
<TellowKrinkle[m]> (By it I mean the asmcheck program, not llc)
<TellowKrinkle[m]> Never mind looks like you don't need the symbol list, clang magically finds the dylib in the dyld cache, so we don't need the symbol list in the repo
<davidrysk[m]> the only reason you'd need the symbol list is to figure out which symbols to call, but if they're plain llvm symbols and you can use llvm headers...
<TellowKrinkle[m]> You do need to call the AGX2 target initialization functions, which are not part of the normal LLVM headers (since the public version has no AGX2 target)
<davidrysk[m]> yeah just run it by marcan if he doesn't see this
<davidrysk[m]> it might be totally ok
<TellowKrinkle[m]> I'm making a post on that issue right now
<TellowKrinkle[m]> Alright I posted it
<davidrysk[m]> cool :)
<davidrysk[m]> thanks!
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<TellowKrinkle[m]> For the instruction metadata, I think an equivalent question would be "if a GPU manufacturer included a JSON file in their gpu driver with a list of registers and instruction scheduling data, would it be okay to use that when developing your driver?"
<TellowKrinkle[m]> I'm going to guess probably not, but not sure
<mjg59> Probably jurisdiction dependent
<mjg59> You'd have some argument that under US law it's just a list of facts and so not copyrightable
<mjg59> But you're probably into speak to a lawyer territory
<marcan> I'm actually going to try to see if I can get a lawyer involved with us to answer questions like this
<marcan> I don't have a good answer personally
<davidrysk[m]> I expect this to be more a EULA/RE problem than a copyright problem
<davidrysk[m]> is linking and calling exported functions that follow the same effective API as LLVM in an Apple private framework in order to assemble LLVM IR into GPU-architecture code in violation of EULA
<davidrysk[m]> and, for marcan, the policy says "contributors must not disassemble or decompile userspace graphics driver binaries", but does this fall under that prohibition
<davidrysk[m]> one could argue that listing exported symbols and linking against the userspace graphics driver binaries is not disassembling or decompiling them
<marcan> on paper it does not, no
<marcan> disassembling and decompiling referse specifically to the actual object code
<marcan> my gut feeling is that this is okay; conversely, I don't think bloom needs this, so why go there. it would be nice to have a lawyer's opinion
<marcan> *refers
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