wumpus changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<fluffypony> science undergoing a 51% attack :-P
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<jcorgan> lol
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<leakypat> Was thinking about full nodes and the fact that an ever decreasing number of people use always on PCs at home anymore
<leakypat> People use laptops instead and so node is on/off line depending on what they are doing
<leakypat> Apple managed to sell those Timemachine boxes a few years back as a wifi station / backup solution
<leakypat> Being able to buy a stand-alone full node in non intrusive hardware box might be a solution
<phantomcircuit> leakypat, unfortunately people doing that are consistently producing underpowered systems
<kanzure> isn't that just increasing the attack surface for at-home consumer electronics and wallet storage stuff
<phantomcircuit> amusingly none of them would work with > 1MB blocks within about 6 months
<leakypat> kanzure: you mean interns of back-dooming the hardware device?
<kanzure> a backdoor installed by an intern? yea that too
<phantomcircuit> lol
<leakypat> Oops
<leakypat> Same issue with everyone running nodes on cloud services though
<phantomcircuit> leakypat, i think you can build something that would be reasonable as an always on system for about $500
<phantomcircuit> if the system isn't truly always on though the cost goes up rapidly
<phantomcircuit> since the performance of the system is now 1:1 correlated with how long it takes after startup for it to be useful
<phantomcircuit> afaict people are targetting $100 or so
<leakypat> phantomcircuit: something eg a business accepting Bitcoin can install and forget about?
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<phantomcircuit> which isn't going to work
<phantomcircuit> leakypat, as long as it's actually online all the time
<phantomcircuit> it's fine
<kanzure> leakypat: so far i can't think of any reasons why you should install that equipment (especially if you are not using the self-validation benefits)
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<phantomcircuit> if they turn it off at night or whatever then it's going to get more expensive fastish
<leakypat> Yeah $100 sounds right :(
<leakypat> kanzure: incentives to run one?
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<leakypat> kanzure: I'm thinking about packaging with a wallet business package or home "money" system
<kanzure> ah okay, so something left of "apocalypse banking kit"
<kanzure> er, right of
<leakypat> Hehe
<phantomcircuit> leakypat, you cant even buy a decent processor for $100
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<kanzure> would be nice to have an "apocalypse banking kit" that did coinjoin and lightning network hub hubbing stuff
<phantomcircuit> $100 gets you a very slow arm soc on a board with usb ports, sdcard, and ethernet
<kanzure> or torrenting-for-fee stuff and tor-for-fee stuff (was the pay4tor stuff safe?)
<phantomcircuit> with an sdcard that is only big enough for maybe 6 months
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<phantomcircuit> i guess if those had pruning and were actually online 24x7 maybe they could work
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<leakypat> Or some way to add remote storage?
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<kanzure> well, i think those problems are still up in the air regarding sybil and fairness
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<leakypat> Or some scheme where every computer science university department runs an always on full node
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<leakypat> I guess the real problem is incentive to run one :/
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<phantomcircuit> leakypat, that's more or less useless
<phantomcircuit> there's more than enough bandwidth to push the blockchain to peers
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<phantomcircuit> which is the only thing that cs dept would be useufl for
<leakypat> Yeah, I see
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<kanzure> and if there was some monetary incentive then there might be policy reasons against operating that node in an official capacity by those departments anyway
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<leakypat> The decline in the number of nodes... What do you see as the profile of the person who stopped running the node?
<leakypat> Eg. Enthusiast who got tired of running it on his pc and just stuck an SPV wallet on his phone instead ?
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<leakypat> The general churn of Bitcoin users so the wallet options are not full nodes anymore for new entrants?
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<phantomcircuit> leakypat, there was a period in which anybody who showed up would be told to run multibit
<phantomcircuit> that was a mistake
<leakypat> Multibit is SPV ?
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<leakypat> I see it is
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