sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
grubles has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
grubles has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tombusby has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
grubles has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
tombusby has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Krellan has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
grubles has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Belkaar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Belkaar has quit [Changing host]
grubles has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
phwalkr has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<dabura667>
I wonder if BIP47 could be salvaged into something more acceptable... luke-jr and gmaxwell both commented on the Github wiki for it denouncing it... but I wonder what specific design choices should be modified.
<dabura667>
I mean, in the near future, Lightning will mostly make this a moot point... but I can see some use cases for the "on-chain version of lightning" (in the sense that you kind of "open a channel" by creating a shared secret based xpub for each other.) moving forward...
<dabura667>
I would love to hear specific criticisms of BIP47, and maybe I'll write up a pull request to add some suggestions for a Version 3 etc. that would address them.
tin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
son0p has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tombusby has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tombusby has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nuncanada has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nuncanada has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Zenton has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Zenton has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<gmaxwell>
dabura667: the design is a failure if any transaction looks different from any ordinary transaction. There is no need to include extra data or have op_returns. Expecting the recipent to support any of a multitude of payer selected scripts is outright incompatible with sensible wallet designs-- I think that if you strictly followed the BIP you'd have to credit to the wallet 1 of 2 multisigs
<gmaxwell>
involving the negoiated points, lol and get robbed.
<gmaxwell>
there are also a bunch of less relevant flaws in the spec, like it directs you to use 'bitmessage', which is largely defuct now (because it was backdoor ware)
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nuncanada has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nuncanada has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<gmaxwell>
so far no one has found a good way to avoid the problem that the 'obvious' way wallets will implement this is by sending their scanning keys to a third party server.
<gmaxwell>
No one also has come up with a way of avoiding the problem that this fails to address what is probably the most common harm in address reuse: that coinbase, etc. detects people sending to disfaored addresses and freezes accounts, reusable payment codes and stealth addresses both make that problem worse. (though perhaps RPC less than stealth addresses)
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<dabura667>
gmaxwell: Good points.
<dabura667>
I was trying to think of a way to do the notification tx without OP_RETURN... maybe using the pubkey from the 1st input's scriptSig/witness as the pubkey and the hash of the outpoint as the chain code... or something along those lines.
<dabura667>
But the more I think about it, the more difficult it gets to think about.
<dabura667>
Especially when you think of implementation in SPV wallets etc.
<dabura667>
... *sigh* imo the holy grail of address reuse destruction is an upgraded improved BIP47 replacement.
<sipa>
dabura667: you need an out of band communication channel to the receiver
<sipa>
if you can't put it in the tx itself
<dabura667>
I have experienced first hand how amazingly strong users are at resisting forced address rotation...
<sipa>
as you said, lightning may actually solve this (for lightning payments)
<dabura667>
We initially had our service refuse to detect more than one utxo per address.
<sipa>
i think that excites me more than the fact that it's also cheaper :)
<dabura667>
"forcing" users to contact support... we figured they would get tired of having to contact support...
<dabura667>
hahahahaha we were wrong.
<dabura667>
so now 98% of our users grab their first address, and only deposit to that one address forever.
<dabura667>
Well, one of the drawbacks of LN and also OOB communication is that the user is required to backup so much more info than just a seed.
<dabura667>
LN => channel info
<dabura667>
OOB => all received payment codes from the OOB comms
<sipa>
yup
<dabura667>
perhaps integrating with Dropbox etc. and encrypting the info before syncing it with a private key derived from your seed.
<sipa>
but forcing the whole world to backup it instead of just you is pretty ridiculous
<dabura667>
seed + Dropbox!!!! woohoo
<dabura667>
true
<dabura667>
Perhaps when this storage solution is solved in LN, that will be a good guide for payment codes.
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tin_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dougsland has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dougsland has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
tombusby has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
valwal has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
tombusby has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
copumpkin has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
brianhoffman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
copumpkin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
brianhoffman has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
tin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
tombusby has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tombusby has joined #bitcoin-wizards
DougieBot5000_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
DougieBot5000 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
antanst has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
antanst has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
Apocalyptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Apocalyptic has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tombusby has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tombusby has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
antanst has joined #bitcoin-wizards
brianhoffman_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
brianhoffman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
brianhoffman_ is now known as brianhoffman
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
setpill has joined #bitcoin-wizards
setpill has quit [Client Quit]
setpill has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ylbam has joined #bitcoin-wizards
copumpkin has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
brianhoffman has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
brianhoffman has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
copumpkin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
CheckDavid has joined #bitcoin-wizards
yoleaux has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
setpill has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
setpill has joined #bitcoin-wizards
setpill has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
setpill has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Aaronvan_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
samm_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
valwal has joined #bitcoin-wizards
SopaXorzTaker has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
belcher has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards
belcher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ylbam has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards
valwal has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
yoleaux has joined #bitcoin-wizards
setpill has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
CheckDavid has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
setpill has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW
tombusby has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tombusby has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dougsland has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Krellan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phwalkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
dougsland has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
setpill has quit [Quit: o/]
RubenSomsen has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has quit [Changing host]
phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
DougieBot5000_ is now known as DougieBot5000
dvknv_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dvknv has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
dvknv has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dvknv__ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dvknv has quit [Remote host closed the connection]