sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
chief19831 has quit []
jimmyrizzle has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
flukiluke1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
elichai2 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guest88190 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
BlueMatt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jimmyrizzle has left #bitcoin-wizards [#bitcoin-wizards]
bildramer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ccdle12 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
bildramer has joined #bitcoin-wizards
bildramer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bildramer has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ccdle12 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
azdrianz[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
kewde[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
TheFuzzStone[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
knuteis[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
tomtau[m]1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
catcow has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Jeremy_Rand_Talo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
hsngrmpf[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
tomtau[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
charuto has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
devdig[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
maluk has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
maluk has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Belkaar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Belkaar has quit [Changing host]
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kayront has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in]
kayront has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kayront is now known as Guest43956
mappum_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
suraeNoether has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
midnightmagic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
RubenSomsen has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
ChristopherA___ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
kisspunch has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
kisspunch has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ChristopherA___ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
comboy_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
suraeNoether has joined #bitcoin-wizards
mappum_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
maluk has quit [*.net *.split]
fluffypony has quit [*.net *.split]
heath has quit [*.net *.split]
wpaulino has quit [*.net *.split]
esotericnonsense has quit [*.net *.split]
roasbeef has quit [*.net *.split]
o3u has quit [*.net *.split]
gmaxwell has quit [*.net *.split]
michaelsdunn1_ has quit [*.net *.split]
comboy has quit [*.net *.split]
Madars has quit [*.net *.split]
gwillen has quit [*.net *.split]
jasonzhouu has quit [*.net *.split]
luny has quit [*.net *.split]
gwillen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
midnightmagic has joined #bitcoin-wizards
esotericnonsense has joined #bitcoin-wizards
knuteis[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
catcow has joined #bitcoin-wizards
hsngrmpf[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Jeremy_Rand_Talo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tomtau[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
tomtau[m]1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
charuto has joined #bitcoin-wizards
devdig[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
azdrianz[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kewde[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheFuzzStone[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
son0p_ has quit [Quit: leaving]
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
_Sam-- has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wpaulino has joined #bitcoin-wizards
heath has joined #bitcoin-wizards
maluk has joined #bitcoin-wizards
roasbeef has joined #bitcoin-wizards
gmaxwell has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Madars has joined #bitcoin-wizards
michaelsdunn1_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jasonzhouu has joined #bitcoin-wizards
luny has joined #bitcoin-wizards
fluffypony has joined #bitcoin-wizards
o3u has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Zenton has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
flukiluke1 has quit []
tasmo1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Dean_Guss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Zenton has joined #bitcoin-wizards
fletom has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
fletom has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Dean_Guss has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Dean_Guss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tasmo1 has quit []
DocScrutinizer has joined #bitcoin-wizards
DocScrutinizer is now known as Guest70345
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
Guest70345 has quit []
brimstone1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wk057 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
wk057 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
davec has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
davec has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CryptoDavid has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jimmyrizzle has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
TheoStorm has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
brimstone1 has quit []
dvratil has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jimmyrizzle has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guest43956 has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in]
kayront has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kayront is now known as Guest20661
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
enemabandit has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
rh0nj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rh0nj has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
dvratil has quit []
bildramer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bildramer has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Dean_Guss has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Dean_Guss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
newz2000 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has quit [Changing host]
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<kanzure> threshold ring signatures https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/774.pdf
_Sam-- has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<kanzure> "Colored ring confidential transactions" https://arxiv.org/abs/1807.10554
<sarang> The method he's speaking about is done differently than kanzure links
jimmyrizzle has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jimmyrizzle has left #bitcoin-wizards [#bitcoin-wizards]
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has quit [Changing host]
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]
mdunnio has joined #bitcoin-wizards
UXlast has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<UXlast> Is there consensus for CT to be added to bitcoin in the future or is this likely to result in a hard fork?
<UXlast> or will it not be added?
<waxwing> UXlast, think it's fair to say no one really knows
<waxwing> perhaps the best you can say is, if there are certain kinds of improvements in the tech, it could make it more likely to be adopted by virtue of overwhelming consensus.
<sarang> Although simply moving amounts into Pedersen commitments still presents essentially the same transaction graph, and therefore many of the same issues
<waxwing> fair point, but nobody's contending that it's a perfect privacy solution.
<sarang> What I was getting at (poorly) was that it seems to solve only a small portion of the broader problem of privacy/confidentiality, so I question if it'd be worth the trouble
<UXlast> For total privacy you need ring signatures + CT + anonymous broadcasting, is that right?
<sarang> Ring signatures can't practically scale to be a full anonymity set
<UXlast> Can you explain?
<sarang> Decoy-based approaches using ring signatures pick a small set of previous outputs that includes the true signer
<sarang> If done without a trusted setup, signing and verification are linear in the size of that set, and proof size (usually) is also linear
<sarang> You can certainly couple this with one-time addresses and hidden amounts
<sarang> Approaches like Zerocoin and Zerocash and their successors effectively use the entire set of previous outputs as the anonymity set, but (in those examples) trade that benefit for a trusted setup
<sarang> (Also note that the original Zerocoin proving system was found to be very broken and should be considered unfit for use)
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
<waxwing> even if you ameliorate or solve the trusted setup, you still have a growing accumulator, right. there are difficult to pin down scalability tradeoffs and security tradeoffs, but the inability to remove old state somehow or other creeps in. i think that's fair?
<waxwing> perhaps in future that can be solved? it's above my paygrade for sure to know whether that's possible, but perhaps others have opinions.
<sarang> Well, the size of the current accumulator state can be constant
<sarang> But you're right about state tracking (as part of new node sync) being an issue, even beyond the scaling of individual transactions with anonymity set size
<waxwing> ok i get it, think i was just misusing the term 'accumulator' there. i know that's used for a specific crypto construction.
<sarang> Totally unrelated topic that just came to mind... a long while ago I asked here about the Dandelion++ BIP, and whether it had been updated elsewhere or not...
<sarang> in the latest version I saw, it assumed a node made a stem-or-fluff decision per transaction, and not per epoch as the paper demands
<sarang> Any knowledge here about that?
newz2000 has quit []
Dean_Guss has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Chefe has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jb55 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]
jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
mdunnio has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
nuncanada has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nuncanada has quit [Quit: Leaving]
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2 has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chefe has quit []
Galik has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Galik is now known as Guest19853
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]
jimmyrizzle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Zenton has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
enemabandit has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jimmyrizzle has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
BlueMatt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BlueMatt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
charlieday_____ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
charlieday_____ has quit [Client Quit]