sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
chief19831 has quit []
jimmyrizzle has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
flukiluke1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
elichai2 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guest88190 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
BlueMatt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jimmyrizzle has left #bitcoin-wizards [#bitcoin-wizards]
bildramer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ccdle12 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
bildramer has joined #bitcoin-wizards
bildramer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bildramer has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ccdle12 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
azdrianz[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
kewde[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
TheFuzzStone[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
knuteis[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
tomtau[m]1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
catcow has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Jeremy_Rand_Talo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<sarang>
The method he's speaking about is done differently than kanzure links
jimmyrizzle has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jimmyrizzle has left #bitcoin-wizards [#bitcoin-wizards]
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has quit [Changing host]
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]
mdunnio has joined #bitcoin-wizards
UXlast has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<UXlast>
Is there consensus for CT to be added to bitcoin in the future or is this likely to result in a hard fork?
<UXlast>
or will it not be added?
<waxwing>
UXlast, think it's fair to say no one really knows
<waxwing>
perhaps the best you can say is, if there are certain kinds of improvements in the tech, it could make it more likely to be adopted by virtue of overwhelming consensus.
<sarang>
Although simply moving amounts into Pedersen commitments still presents essentially the same transaction graph, and therefore many of the same issues
<waxwing>
fair point, but nobody's contending that it's a perfect privacy solution.
<sarang>
What I was getting at (poorly) was that it seems to solve only a small portion of the broader problem of privacy/confidentiality, so I question if it'd be worth the trouble
<UXlast>
For total privacy you need ring signatures + CT + anonymous broadcasting, is that right?
<sarang>
Ring signatures can't practically scale to be a full anonymity set
<UXlast>
Can you explain?
<sarang>
Decoy-based approaches using ring signatures pick a small set of previous outputs that includes the true signer
<sarang>
If done without a trusted setup, signing and verification are linear in the size of that set, and proof size (usually) is also linear
<sarang>
You can certainly couple this with one-time addresses and hidden amounts
<sarang>
Approaches like Zerocoin and Zerocash and their successors effectively use the entire set of previous outputs as the anonymity set, but (in those examples) trade that benefit for a trusted setup
<sarang>
(Also note that the original Zerocoin proving system was found to be very broken and should be considered unfit for use)
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
<waxwing>
even if you ameliorate or solve the trusted setup, you still have a growing accumulator, right. there are difficult to pin down scalability tradeoffs and security tradeoffs, but the inability to remove old state somehow or other creeps in. i think that's fair?
<waxwing>
perhaps in future that can be solved? it's above my paygrade for sure to know whether that's possible, but perhaps others have opinions.
<sarang>
Well, the size of the current accumulator state can be constant
<sarang>
But you're right about state tracking (as part of new node sync) being an issue, even beyond the scaling of individual transactions with anonymity set size
<waxwing>
ok i get it, think i was just misusing the term 'accumulator' there. i know that's used for a specific crypto construction.
<sarang>
Totally unrelated topic that just came to mind... a long while ago I asked here about the Dandelion++ BIP, and whether it had been updated elsewhere or not...
<sarang>
in the latest version I saw, it assumed a node made a stem-or-fluff decision per transaction, and not per epoch as the paper demands
<sarang>
Any knowledge here about that?
newz2000 has quit []
Dean_Guss has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Chefe has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jb55 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]
jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
mdunnio has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
nuncanada has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nuncanada has quit [Quit: Leaving]
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2 has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chefe has quit []
Galik has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Galik is now known as Guest19853
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]
jimmyrizzle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
jimmyrizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Zenton has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]
enemabandit has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jimmyrizzle has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]