sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
tylerni71 has quit []
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
DeanGuss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
tromp_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Nipo1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
kenshi84 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kenshi84_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
mauz555 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Belkaar has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Belkaar has quit [Changing host]
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rusty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Nipo1 has quit []
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
b_b1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kenshi84 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
kenshi84 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CryptoDavid has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
real_or_random has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in]
stoner19 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
stoner19 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
stoner19 has quit [Changing host]
stoner19 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
real_or_random has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
ppisati has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ppisati has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
DeanGuss has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
proofofkeags has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
b_b1 has quit []
kabaum has joined #bitcoin-wizards
gchaix has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
queip has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
queip has joined #bitcoin-wizards
queip has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
zmnscpxj_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zmnscpxj_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
smk has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jonatack_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
midnight has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
marcoagner has joined #bitcoin-wizards
midnight has joined #bitcoin-wizards
zmnscpxj_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gchaix has quit []
smk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
c9sloud has joined #bitcoin-wizards
mauz555 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sonofhan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
sonofhan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ccdle12_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ccdle12_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
someone235 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
AaronvanW has quit []
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rusty has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
kabaum has quit [Quit: Leaving]
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sonofhan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jonatack_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
proofofkeags has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jonatack has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jb55 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards
c9sloud has quit []
Vogone has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CryptoDavid has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laptop has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2 has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jb55 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
mdunnio has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Vogone has quit []
proofofkeags has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Dogechain has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sonofhan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sonofhan has quit [Client Quit]
justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards
mryandao has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mryandao has joined #bitcoin-wizards
pinheadmz_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
pinheadmz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
pinheadmz_ is now known as pinheadmz
proofofkeags has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zmnscpxj_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Dogechain has quit []
mdunnio has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
DeanGuss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<jeremyrubin>
sipa: In theory, a generated musig key is "safe" to use for a ECDSA signature, correct? That is, suppose I have a key P and a key Q, and I generate musig_key(P, Q) = S. Suppose the whole world learns q such that qG = Q. Myself knowing p such that pG = P, I can produce a signature W of a message M using ECDSA with S. Learning W does not reveal anything about the private scalar p such that any signature for P could be produced.
<jeremyrubin>
This is useful for some protocols one can write today where it's set up that some set of scalars will be released by an oracle which let me act with a secret key
<jeremyrubin>
Because P can be a non-public key (e.g., per instance of a protocol), signing with S also does not reveal which information I was conditioned on
<sipa>
so your question is: given an ECDSA signature for public key aP+b (with publicly known constants a and b), can an attacker produce a signature for P?
<jeremyrubin>
It's a bit more than that, because it also requires the security properties of musig around key cancelling
mdunnio has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<jeremyrubin>
But I guess maybe that is correct? a and b are derived from the musig key algo so yeah I guess it does boil down to that
<sipa>
so the attacker generated Q, you provided P, then you compute S=MuSig(P,Q), then the DL q=Q/G gets revealed to you, then you produce a signature using S, and then you want to know if the attacker can use that to produce a signature with P?
<jeremyrubin>
Yeah
<jeremyrubin>
I think it should be fine right? because they never learn p
<sipa>
i suspect this is true, but it would hard to prove
<jeremyrubin>
But I'm not sure if they can factor out the a and b
<jeremyrubin>
so I gues your can obviously produce a signature at least. You end up with a private key of (h1* p + h2*b) to sign by
<jeremyrubin>
s = k^-1(m + r*(h1*p + h2*b))
<jeremyrubin>
s = k^-1(m+rh1*p + rh2*b)
brrr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<jeremyrubin>
s = k^-1(m+rh1*p) + k^-1(rh2*b)
<jeremyrubin>
so given that k is not learned, you can't compute k^-1(rh2*b) to subtract from s to get a signature from just p
<jeremyrubin>
So it *seems* true?
<jeremyrubin>
But maybe I'm missing a technique on it...
DeanGuss has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
DeanGuss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<jeremyrubin>
Have the related key attacks been ruled out for any of the other key aggregation schemes? E.g. stealth addresses
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sipa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sipa has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2__ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Guyver2__ is now known as Guyver2
proofofkeags has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
DeanGuss has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
DeanGuss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
brrr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
sonofhan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sonofhan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
shush has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sonofhan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sonofhan has quit [Client Quit]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
davispuh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nyuszika7h1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
DeanGuss has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jonatack has quit [Quit: jonatack]
jb55 has quit [Quit: jb55]
Krellan_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
DeanGuss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nyuszika7h1 has quit []
Guyver2 has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
phyll1s_work has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
proofofkeags has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofk_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
proofofkeags has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
michaelfolkson has quit [Quit: Sleep mode]
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kenshi84_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kenshi84 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
mauz555 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mauz555 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
mdunnio has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
michaelfolkson has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
DeanGuss has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
DeanGuss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
marcoagner has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards
DeanGuss has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
DeanGuss has joined #bitcoin-wizards
pinheadmz has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]
shush has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mauz555 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
shush has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shush has quit [Remote host closed the connection]