sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<jonatack> related to the paper kanzure mentioned on this channel yesterday
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<jonatack> "Indistinguishability obfuscation from well-founded assumptions" https://eprint.iacr.org/2020/1003
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<waxwing> yeah i read that a few days ago, a nice attempt (but only attempt!) to make it understandable by the uh "general" public :)
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<andytoshi> it is plausible that, as a consquence of that paper, within the next 12-24 months we'll see a "SNARKs for C" moment where somebody produces an iO construction which, while still far from reasonable, is plausible to run on consumer hardware
<andytoshi> i think the quanta magazine article does a good job describing the state of iO prior to this paper ... my old phd supervisor was one of the original iO people and i've seen him give talks
<andytoshi> and he'd always get an awkward "but...this isn't actually a thing right?" type question
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<andytoshi> i thought (and this part of why i dropped out of the phd program) that iO was actually impossible because it implied things that were too good to be true
<andytoshi> and i don't think this was an uncommon view
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<jonatack> andytoshi: thanks for the context!
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<andytoshi> iO constructions, including this recent one, have never been feasible for realistic programs (or any programs really). the candidate i remember eprint.iacr.org/2013/451.pdf would convert a program to a series of pemutation matrices, which had exponential blowup (so only worked for "NC^1 circuits", a notion that i never really grokked), and then used fully homomorphic encryption to lever from
<andytoshi> this to all programs
<andytoshi> so good luck doing more than xor'ing a few bits in that model :)
<andytoshi> but then eprint.iacr.org/2013/454.pdf which was a huge "how to use iO to do basically everything including otherwise-impossible stuff" paper...
<andytoshi> ...which is not only doing complex cryptography inside of the obfuscator, it's using these bizarre special-purpose "punctured PRG" constructions which are themselves super heavy, even before obfuscation
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<andytoshi> haha some wikipedia editor seems to hate iO. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indistinguishability_obfuscation and also the talk page
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<jonatack> indeed, and that wikipedia entry was updated only yesterday
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