<dyoung522>
which is working find as a stand alone gem with cinch. However, next step is to merge it into the cinch core and provide a pull request for dom
<oddmunds>
hmm, not what i was expecting at all
<dyoung522>
the concept was to provide a simple key/value datastore which is backed by a database (of the users choosing)
<dyoung522>
if you have suggestions or want to help improve upon it, by all means, hack away
<dyoung522>
there's an example as used in a cinch plugin (for now)
<dyoung522>
documentation is currently, lacking
<dyoung522>
oh, I haven't published it to rubygems yet either, so if you want to include it to help test (please?), you'll need to either specify the github develop branch in your gemfile or manually clone it.
<dominikh>
real men use gem build and don't have a gemfile :)
<dyoung522>
hush, purist. :)
<dominikh>
honestly, I don't get why gemfiles leaked into non-rails stuff, especially when I see gemfiles that just refer to the gemspec
<dominikh>
what does that do for you
<dyoung522>
simply put, nothing.
<dyoung522>
it's just what I'm used to from rails
<dominikh>
:D well glad to hear I didn't miss anything then :P
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<dyoung522>
then again, it doesn't harm anything either
<Netfeed>
one of the reasons i quit ruby, "everything" is so rails bound
<dominikh>
by that definition we should also include a makefile ;)
<dyoung522>
lol
<dominikh>
Netfeed: yup.
<dyoung522>
fair enough
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<Netfeed>
and if you don't use rails, then your considered a second citizen more or less
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<dyoung522>
I don't think that's necessarily true
<dyoung522>
there are quite a few non-rails ruby projects out there
<dyoung522>
but sure, if you mean cherry-picking things from rails and using them in non-rails projects, okay... but, so what?
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<dyoung522>
rails is ruby
<dyoung522>
it's simply a framework
<Netfeed>
ruby is rails :P
<dyoung522>
not true
<dyoung522>
you can't run rails without ruby. You can run ruby easily without rails
<dyoung522>
but, I admit that rails is the "big attraction" for ruby these days.
<dyoung522>
and again, I say, 'so what'? It's not a bad framework, afterall.
<dyoung522>
(yes, I know dominikh disagrees)
<Netfeed>
too much magic if you ask me
<dominikh>
maybe we need a #cinch-rails-sucks :)
<dyoung522>
only if you don't want to dig deep into it
<dyoung522>
HA
<dyoung522>
magic is only magic until you know the secret
<dominikh>
because frankly the whole topic bores me by now
<Netfeed>
#zomgrailsux
<Netfeed>
meh +s
<dominikh>
if you need to "dig deep" it's inherently flawed in two ways
<dyoung522>
note taken.
<dominikh>
first, because your magic makes it harder to actually know what's happening, and second because you acknowledge that the magic doesn't work, else you wouldn't need to find your way to the non-magic bits
<dyoung522>
wait a minute now... you were just telling me that API developers should keep the API very high-level for users. Why does that not apply to rails?
<dominikh>
there's a difference between a high-level API and magic.
<dyoung522>
there's no magic. It's all there in the documentation, if you look for it.
<dominikh>
and I wasn't arguing for high level, I was arguing for abstraction.
<dominikh>
but really, I am eternally done with the rails topic.
<dominikh>
especially in here.
<dyoung522>
I have no dog in this fight, doesn't bother me in the least if people don't like rails. There are plenty of things I don't like. I'm just curious as to the reasoning.
<Netfeed>
there where somewhere in the rails book by dhh a line ruby code that you where supposed to add to your code somewhere and then that generated a bunch of javascript that made a box fly through the page or something, i call that bad magic
<Netfeed>
and it's not just rails, frameworks that tries to hide stuff and gerenrate stuff on runtime and where you don't really have control over it is in general pretty bad
<dyoung522>
Netfeed: I don't know what you're referring to. Sounds to me like you don't like the idea of it, but haven't really used it. But, to dominikh's point. I will cease further comment.
<Netfeed>
it got me put off to even go further :)
<dyoung522>
fair enough, to each their own. :)
<dominikh>
the primary problem with $somethinglikerails is the "easy to write" mentality, instead of focussing on readability
<dominikh>
come back 6 months later and have absolutely no idea what's going on because you don't have all the documentation and magic in your head
<dominikh>
(and yes, I stole that thought straight from Go propaganda. there are quite some things that are not so nice when you write them, but pretty darn sweet to read)
<dyoung522>
heh
<dyoung522>
I think the same could be said of any language. In fact, that's why I left perl and moved to ruby.
<dominikh>
yes, other languages have similar flaws
<dominikh>
ruby just tends to be an extreme
<dominikh>
Cinch is no exception in some parts
<dyoung522>
let's be honest, anything that you "put away" and come back to six months later is going to seem foreign until you re-learn what your thought process was. Even with the best comments and documentation possible.
<maetrik>
guys you are scaring me :P
<dominikh>
doesn't mean everything can be relearned equally well
<dyoung522>
true
<dyoung522>
again, I point at perl
<dominikh>
maetrik: why?
<dyoung522>
the TMTOWTDI is both it's strength and weakness when you have to support it later
<dyoung522>
ruby has that too
<maetrik>
i'm new to ruby
<maetrik>
hehe
<dyoung522>
maetrik: for the record, I love ruby
<maetrik>
about to install ruby and give cinch a try
<dyoung522>
I'm also a fan of rails
<dyoung522>
we're simply discussion philosophy
<maetrik>
ok ok :)
<dyoung522>
maetrik: I would say, decide for yourself.
<dominikh>
could be worse, we could be fighting over forks.
<dyoung522>
heh
<dominikh>
(and I sure hope that reference is obvious)
<maetrik>
looking through the plugins, some nice stuff available like google for example
<maetrik>
seen plugin
<dominikh>
they're just examples though
<dyoung522>
maetrik: if you want to grab the cinchbot I've been working on as a starting point, feel free.
<maetrik>
where can i grab it?
<maetrik>
that seen script example, does that store it's data in memory?