<ec>
problem I have with clojure, looking at leinengen and shit right now
<ec>
is the whole Java bit.
<ec>
having to deal with, and understand, the huuuuuuuuge infrastructure of built-up *everything* surrounding Java
<ec>
and all of it in the Java mindset.
<ec>
I mean, there's alternatives, that are clojure-specific, and in at least a mildly different mindset … but you'll never completely avoid the Java Hivemind.
<incomprehensibly>
yeah well you don't usually have to touch it I think
<incomprehensibly>
well yeah
<incomprehensibly>
but seesaw covers up swing
<incomprehensibly>
so I won't have to touch swing
<incomprehensibly>
etc.
<incomprehensibly>
just realized where the name seesaw came from lol
<purr>
lol
<ec>
lol.
<ec>
now she wants my attention.
<ec>
as soon as she was done cleaning, she was all perky and happy and affectionate, and I wasn't having any of it, since her shutting me down had put *me* in a bad mood.
<incomprehensibly>
mhm
<incomprehensibly>
SEEING THE POSTAL SERVICE ON SATURDAY
<prophile>
ec: you could cook and eat her
<alexgordon>
HI PROPHILE
<prophile>
hello alex
<alexgordon>
prophile: are you hot
<alexgordon>
I am hot
<prophile>
alexgordon: smoking
<prophile>
I haven't turned off my ceiling fan in three days
<alexgordon>
you have a ceiling fan?!
<prophile>
well, to be more precise
<prophile>
the spare room at my dad's house has a ceiling fan, and what's where i'm staying at the moment
<alexgordon>
I see
<alexgordon>
I have a big ...fan
<alexgordon>
it goes round and round, it's good like that
<prophile>
this one's just like that
<prophile>
except
<prophile>
it's on the ceiling
<alexgordon>
excellent
<alexgordon>
when it's so hot, conversation degenerates into teletubbies english
<alexgordon>
DIPSY IS HOT
<ec>
alexgordon: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<ec>
incomprehensibly: would you like to Minecraft with myself and the Illinoisians?
<alexgordon>
haha
<ec>
assuming we actually get on.
<incomprehensibly>
haha sure
<alexgordon>
ME TOO
<ec>
lol
<purr>
lol
<ec>
alexgordon, I don't think any of them know you
<ec>
but everyone knows who micah is
<alexgordon>
O_O
<alexgordon>
everybody knows micah?
<ec>
yes?
<incomprehensibly>
haha
<alexgordon>
in illinois?
<alexgordon>
like a local hero?
<incomprehensibly>
i'm famous
<incomprehensibly>
what am i famous for?
<ec>
I just mention him often, when I'm talking to him on here.
<alexgordon>
did he knock on their doors?
<alexgordon>
-paws
<purr>
alexgordon: “the scientology of programming langiages” <http://ell.io/iksN9>
<ec>
They just know that you're a friend of mine. I tend to make it sound like I'm your mentor. ;)
<alexgordon>
damn
<alexgordon>
where's the image
<alexgordon>
WHERE'S THE IMAGE
<ec>
alexgordon: … right there
<alexgordon>
oh
<incomprehensibly>
ec: haha
* ec
laughs
* alexgordon
is an idiot
<incomprehensibly>
i actually talk about you a lot
<ec>
d'awwwwwww
<ec>
This is like,
<ec>
when everyone knows you like a girl,
<ec>
and all of her friends know she likes you,
<ec>
but you're both oblivious to it
<alexgordon>
LOL
<ec>
and then THAT MOMENT when you both realize it
<incomprehensibly>
to the point that when I say something about you my friend caius is like "well why don't you go marry him"
<ec>
only, bromance.
<incomprehensibly>
ec: lulul
* ec
bromance-high-five's incomprehensibly
* incomprehensibly
bromance high fives back
<alexgordon>
the supreme court says it's alright now
<incomprehensibly>
lul
<ec>
198.15.115.130:25804
<incomprehensibly>
oshit i have to download minecraft on this NEW MACBOOK AIR
<incomprehensibly>
...it won't let me click on the menu
<incomprehensibly>
ok
<incomprehensibly>
outdated server!
<incomprehensibly>
:(
<incomprehensibly>
ec: won't let me connect
<incomprehensibly>
jesus i've been sitting on the couch with my laptop for hours and i still have 4 hrs battery life left
<incomprehensibly>
alexgordon: clojure is actually pretty fast i hear
<incomprehensibly>
because jvm
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly: it really isn't
<incomprehensibly>
anyway even if it isn't faster than python it's ridiculously funner
<incomprehensibly>
much more concise
<incomprehensibly>
much less making you put things into a lot of different stateful statements
<incomprehensibly>
anyway based on highly scientific blog posts clojure is a lot faster than python
<incomprehensibly>
anyway python has GIL
<incomprehensibly>
so can't be parallel
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly: but clojure is *slow* so there's no point in it being parallel
<incomprehensibly>
lol
<purr>
lol
<incomprehensibly>
much faster than python
<alexgordon>
better off writing single threaded java than multithreaded clojure
<incomprehensibly>
slow is not a binary
<prophile>
haskell
<prophile>
in all cases
<prophile>
it has STM
<alexgordon>
prophile: lol haskell is slow
<alexgordon>
and lazy
<prophile>
no, it's incredibly fast because it uses llvm and has stm
<alexgordon>
would you hire a lazy person? then why use a lazy programming language
<prophile>
and is compiled
<alexgordon>
logic: can't argue with it
<prophile>
hah
<prophile>
actually i'd say laziness is the mark of a good programmer
<prophile>
a bad programmer will earnestly do the same thing many times, a lazy programmer will factor it out and do it once
<alexgordon>
along with being 20 years old and being unpredictable?
<incomprehensibly>
haskell is not that unpredictable
<incomprehensibly>
like
<alexgordon>
it really is
<incomprehensibly>
its easy to tell when things are evaluated
<incomprehensibly>
alexgordon: how much have you used it in anger
<incomprehensibly>
you think about your program in the opposite direction from say python
<incomprehensibly>
or java
<incomprehensibly>
which isn't any harder
<alexgordon>
I've been doing haskell for a while, it surprises me. I can't think what percentage of programmers are able to predict haskell's performance
<incomprehensibly>
just get your mind into that mindset
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly: it IS harder because haskell works differently to other languages
<alexgordon>
counterintuitively, even
<incomprehensibly>
ok it's harder if you're used to predicting performance in other languages
<incomprehensibly>
but it's not fundamentally harder
<alexgordon>
which, almost all haskell programmers will be
<alexgordon>
fundamentals are meaningless :P
<incomprehensibly>
it's only harder if you're unwilling to change your mindset
<alexgordon>
all that matters is money and girls, the rest is academic
<alexgordon>
(can you tell when I'm being serious or not? I sure can't)
<prophile>
i thought you, uh, swung the other way?
<alexgordon>
...
<alexgordon>
you're thinking of ec
<prophile>
no, i know ec is an equal-opportunities man
<incomprehensibly>
it's not like haskell randomly chooses whether to evaluate expressions or not
<alexgordon>
prophile: a feminist?
<incomprehensibly>
it evaluates them when a sink asks for them
<prophile>
alexgordon: i meant bisexual, lul
<incomprehensibly>
which is not hard to predict
<prophile>
which is a strict superset of bisexual
<alexgordon>
lulsexual
<alexgordon>
bisexlul
<alexgordon>
anyway this just goes to prove that prophile can't tell when I'm being serious or not
<prophile>
it makes it harder to read
<incomprehensibly>
haskell performance is not unpredictable
<alexgordon>
yes it is
<alexgordon>
maybe not to a master
<alexgordon>
but in Real Programming there's budget constraints
<alexgordon>
does haskell improve things enough to compensate for the more expensive people you'll need to hire?
<incomprehensibly>
ugh
<incomprehensibly>
we're not talking about the programmer market
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
but
<alexgordon>
this is the world
<alexgordon>
programmers don't just write code for its own sake. we're not authors
<incomprehensibly>
i'm not saying that you should hire non-haskell-programmers to write haskell
<incomprehensibly>
jesus christ way to fucking change the argument to something it was not about in any way
<alexgordon>
but then you can only hire haskell programmers
<alexgordon>
I think we just have different points of view
<alexgordon>
different values
<incomprehensibly>
we weren't talking about who you can hire
<incomprehensibly>
we were talking about unpredictable performance
<alexgordon>
I see a programming language as a means to an end, a mere incidental part of programming
<alexgordon>
right
<incomprehensibly>
well right now I am also seeing clojure as that because I am actually making something
<alexgordon>
but haskell is more than its semantics
<incomprehensibly>
sure, if I wanted to hire a lot of programmers I wouldn't use Haskell
<incomprehensibly>
that's not what we were talking about
<incomprehensibly>
alexgordon (n.) someone who changes the topic of conversation too quickly for any point to be made
<alexgordon>
LOL
<purr>
LOL
<alexgordon>
I just anticipate what people are going to say usually so I don't wait to hear them say it ;)
<incomprehensibly>
...
<alexgordon>
I find that the most frustrating thing in the world
<alexgordon>
(changing the topic)
<alexgordon>
when you know what someone is going to say, before they say it
<alexgordon>
then they *say* it, and it's like they've repeated themselves
<alexgordon>
and you're like "I know that, I was in the process of thinking of a response before you interrupted my thought process by asking the thing I was responding to"
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<incomprehensibly>
well I don't usually have that experience with you because instead of continuing the topic at hand, you start talking about something irrelevnt
<incomprehensibly>
so I guess you succeed at not being frustrating to yourself
<alexgordon>
yep!
<alexgordon>
and in the end, isn't that all that matters
<incomprehensibly>
:
<alexgordon>
man when I say this stuff I sound like ec
<alexgordon>
not good
<alexgordon>
not good at all
<incomprehensibly>
ec: couldn't login to server
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly: as I was saying just now in the Other Place, I read on HN once that it's better to "push" rather than "pull" information
<incomprehensibly>
oh you read on hn once
<alexgordon>
:P
<incomprehensibly>
what was the argument
<alexgordon>
as in, don't ask a question, but state an answer and someone will quickly tell you if you're wrong
<incomprehensibly>
about: I'm done with this place.
<incomprehensibly>
omg
<alexgordon>
?
<incomprehensibly>
your profile
<incomprehensibly>
on hn
<incomprehensibly>
and were you referring to how haskell is kind of pull-ey because of laziness
<incomprehensibly>
or more a social thing
<alexgordon>
my profile on HN?
<alexgordon>
I seem to remember I got really annoyed after HN went on a libertarian NHS bashing phase
<alexgordon>
2269!
<joelteon>
so I have ios7
<alexgordon>
joelteon: what's it like
<joelteon>
it's very nice
<alexgordon>
it feels like it needs more dropshadows
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
contrast is too low
<joelteon>
heh
<joelteon>
it's alright for me
alexgordon has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
<ec>
hi
<purr>
ec: hi!
<ec>
incomprehensibly: need your minecraft name
<incomprehensibly>
ec: squoctopus
* incomprehensibly
hides face in shame
* ec
laughs
<ec>
love it.
<incomprehensibly>
i want to have wireless speakers and wireless audio interface and wireless keyboard/midi interface
<incomprehensibly>
because this macbook air is basically wire-free 90% of the time thanks to battery life
Sgeo has joined #elliottcable
chris-tina has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
<ec>
incomprehensibly: added.
<incomprehensibly>
ec: thxthx
<incomprehensibly>
i gtg soon though and not sure when I'll be back
<incomprehensibly>
:/
<ec>
that's fine!
<ec>
I don't think she and I are playing tonight, either
<ec>
just log on whenever and have fun
<ec>
hopefully we'll hook up soon
<incomprehensibly>
ok coo
<incomprehensibly>
connection refused
<incomprehensibly>
:c
<ec>
micahjohnston: fixed
<incomprehensibly>
coo
<incomprehensibly>
I'M IN
* incomprehensibly
is playing with a touchpad
<incomprehensibly>
ok let's play sometime
<incomprehensibly>
well i gtg
<incomprehensibly>
bye
<incomprehensibly>
<3
<incomprehensibly>
i'm in love with clojure
Sgeo_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<ec>
incomprehensibly: OH MY GOD
<ec>
incomprehensibly: FUCKIN' STUDIO GHIBLI
<incomprehensibly>
ec: YEAH I KNOW
<incomprehensibly>
spirited away fuckin ripped my mind to shreds
<incomprehensibly>
ponyo wasn't too bad either
<incomprehensibly>
still have to watch totoro and all the others though
<gkatsev>
lol
<purr>
lol
<gkatsev>
yeah, the studio ghibli movies are pretty good
eligrey has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Sgeo has joined #elliottcable
sharkbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sharkbot has joined #elliottcable
<ec>
incomprehensibly: TOTORO IS THE BEST FUCKING THING IN THE WORLD
<ec>
<3 Totoro
<purr>
Let it be known that ec hearts Totoro.
<joelteon>
studio giblet
<ec>
*pop*
<ec>
incomprehensibly: set up DNS: mc.ell.io:25804
malia has joined #elliottcable
malia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
malia has joined #elliottcable
eligrey has joined #elliottcable
malia has quit [Quit: malia]
eligrey has quit [Quit: Leaving]
malia has joined #elliottcable
eligrey-space has joined #elliottcable
eligrey-space has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
malia has quit [Quit: malia]
yrashk has quit [*.net *.split]
micahjohnston has quit [*.net *.split]
duckinator has quit [*.net *.split]
audy has quit [*.net *.split]
sanitypassing has quit [*.net *.split]
gkatsev has quit [*.net *.split]
ec_ has quit [*.net *.split]
gazoombo has quit [*.net *.split]
owenb__ has quit [*.net *.split]
joelteon has quit [*.net *.split]
fwg has quit [*.net *.split]
duckinator has joined #elliottcable
ec_ has joined #elliottcable
sanitypassing has joined #elliottcable
gkatsev has joined #elliottcable
audy has joined #elliottcable
gazoombo has joined #elliottcable
owenb__ has joined #elliottcable
joelteon has joined #elliottcable
micahjohnston has joined #elliottcable
yrashk has joined #elliottcable
fwg has joined #elliottcable
Sgeo has joined #elliottcable
Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
yorick has joined #elliottcable
chris-tina has joined #elliottcable
chris-tina has quit [Client Quit]
chris-tina has joined #elliottcable
<incomprehensibly>
ec: sweet
ec has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
PragCypher has joined #elliottcable
ec has joined #elliottcable
alexgordon has joined #elliottcable
<ec>
hi
<purr>
ec: hi!
<incomprehensibly>
ec:
<alexgordon>
hi
<purr>
alexgordon: hi!
<incomprehensibly>
alexgordon:
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly:
<ec>
HI
<purr>
ec: hi!
<ec>
GUYS
<ec>
I LIKE YOU ALL
<ec>
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT PAWS
<yorick>
except me, you don't even know me
<ec>
Panera with the girlfriend on her way to work, and her mother
<ec>
but then, maybe, some, paws
<ec>
yorick: what even *are* you
<yorick>
exactly!
<incomprehensibly>
one thing that sucks about clojure is its error messages
<incomprehensibly>
hopefully that won't make using it miserable
<alexgordon>
ec, incomprehensibly: let us paws
<incomprehensibly>
ya
<alexgordon>
so you're on holiday incomprehensibly
<alexgordon>
I presume
<incomprehensibly>
yep
<alexgordon>
school holidays in the UK don't start until the end of july
<incomprehensibly>
oh wow
<incomprehensibly>
how long do they last
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly: until september
<incomprehensibly>
oh ok
<incomprehensibly>
that's not too bad :P
<incomprehensibly>
class starts on aug 22 for me
<incomprehensibly>
brb
<alexgordon>
6 weeks
<incomprehensibly>
oh yeah we have more like 10 weeks
<alexgordon>
lucky
<alexgordon>
though shorter time off at work
<alexgordon>
so
<alexgordon>
:P
<alexgordon>
good childhood, miserable adulthood
<alexgordon>
welcome to america
<incomprehensibly>
haha
<incomprehensibly>
yeah
<incomprehensibly>
:(
<incomprehensibly>
hi
<purr>
incomprehensibly: hi!
<joelteon>
ok here i am
<joelteon>
hi incomprehensibly
<incomprehensibly>
hi joelteon
<ec>
hi
<purr>
ec: hi!
<ec>
there are otters in my room
<ec>
guys are you going to minecraft with me
<joelteon>
yeah
<joelteon>
there's like forty
<ec>
a little bit maybe perhaps mehhhhhhhhhhh ish
<ec>
go away otters nobody likes lutrinae
<joelteon>
shut up with your fancy nomenclature
<incomprehensibly>
ec: clojurrrreeeee
<joelteon>
nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
<incomprehensibly>
there are a lot less assholes in the clojure community than in the haskell one it seems
<incomprehensibly>
ec: on minecraft
<incomprehensibly>
where r u
<joelteon>
wat
<joelteon>
dude haskell people are nice
<joelteon>
so fuck yourself
<incomprehensibly>
well most of them
<incomprehensibly>
just
<incomprehensibly>
some are convinced that if you disagree you simply do not understand
<incomprehensibly>
there are also lots of nice people
<joelteon>
yes
<incomprehensibly>
but the clojure community seems to have a lower rate of people who care more about being right than being nice
<ec>
incomprehensibly: HI
<ec>
am back
<ec>
<incomprehensibly> … seems to have a lower rate of people who care more about being right than being nice
<ec>
qfft
<ec>
I'M ON
<incomprehensibly>
have to go weed
<incomprehensibly>
lol
<purr>
lol
<incomprehensibly>
back
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly: how high?
<joelteon>
i say smoke weed you say how high
<incomprehensibly>
alexgordon: on the ground
<incomprehensibly>
not a flowerbox or anything
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly: lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
not sure if joking
<alexgordon>
<+incomprehensibly> have to go weed
<incomprehensibly>
alexgordon: i weeded part of the lawn
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly: you have cannabis growing in your lawn?
eligrey-space has joined #elliottcable
<incomprehensibly>
yeah
eligrey-space has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
eligrey has joined #elliottcable
yorick has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
<ec>
hi all
malia has joined #elliottcable
<ec>
malia!
<malia>
hey ec sup? good to see you
<ec>
playing minecraft with some of these niggahs
<ec>
alexgordon: you should join us.
<alexgordon>
(!)
<ec>
alexgordon: Micah's bringing his friend, and Kelly's bringing her boyfriend, so I think it's pretty much a freeforall now. (=
* alexgordon
can go to the ball
<alexgordon>
but I'll need some shoes
<alexgordon>
ec: what's the server
<ec>
mc.ell.io:25804
<ec>
wish I could change the fucking port
<alexgordon>
haha
<alexgordon>
hmm
<alexgordon>
it's so hot
<alexgordon>
do I dare turn on my computer
<ec>
-learn minecraft = Come play with meee :3 <mc.ell.io:25804>
<purr>
ec: Learned `minecraft`.
<ec>
-learn alias mc = minecraft
<purr>
ec: Learned `mc` => `minecraft`.
<alexgordon>
think I will
<alexgordon>
never used minecraft on linux
<malia>
I would love to play minecraft, but, I need a haircut.
<alexgordon>
ec: so whatcha doing ingame?
<ec>
was just improving and creeper-proofing our shelter
<ec>
we're only on our third or fourth night, or so
<ec>
we explored a *little* bit down into a cave system, and sheltered from the mobs.
<ec>
I'm about to reboot the server, and change it from “easy” to “normal”