ec changed the topic of #elliottcable to: #
<ec> problem I have with clojure, looking at leinengen and shit right now
<ec> is the whole Java bit.
<ec> having to deal with, and understand, the huuuuuuuuge infrastructure of built-up *everything* surrounding Java
<ec> and all of it in the Java mindset.
<ec> I mean, there's alternatives, that are clojure-specific, and in at least a mildly different mindset … but you'll never completely avoid the Java Hivemind.
<incomprehensibly> yeah well you don't usually have to touch it I think
<incomprehensibly> well yeah
<incomprehensibly> but seesaw covers up swing
<incomprehensibly> so I won't have to touch swing
<incomprehensibly> etc.
<incomprehensibly> just realized where the name seesaw came from lol
<purr> lol
<ec> lol.
<ec> now she wants my attention.
<ec> as soon as she was done cleaning, she was all perky and happy and affectionate, and I wasn't having any of it, since her shutting me down had put *me* in a bad mood.
<incomprehensibly> mhm
<incomprehensibly> SEEING THE POSTAL SERVICE ON SATURDAY
<prophile> ec: you could cook and eat her
<alexgordon> HI PROPHILE
<prophile> hello alex
<alexgordon> prophile: are you hot
<alexgordon> I am hot
<prophile> alexgordon: smoking
<prophile> I haven't turned off my ceiling fan in three days
<alexgordon> you have a ceiling fan?!
<prophile> well, to be more precise
<prophile> the spare room at my dad's house has a ceiling fan, and what's where i'm staying at the moment
<alexgordon> I see
<alexgordon> I have a big ...fan
<alexgordon> it goes round and round, it's good like that
<prophile> this one's just like that
<prophile> except
<prophile> it's on the ceiling
<alexgordon> excellent
<alexgordon> when it's so hot, conversation degenerates into teletubbies english
<alexgordon> DIPSY IS HOT
<ec> alexgordon: wat.
<purr> beep.
<ec> incomprehensibly: would you like to Minecraft with myself and the Illinoisians?
<alexgordon> haha
<ec> assuming we actually get on.
<incomprehensibly> haha sure
<alexgordon> ME TOO
<ec> lol
<purr> lol
<ec> alexgordon, I don't think any of them know you
<ec> but everyone knows who micah is
<alexgordon> O_O
<alexgordon> everybody knows micah?
<ec> yes?
<incomprehensibly> haha
<alexgordon> in illinois?
<alexgordon> like a local hero?
<incomprehensibly> i'm famous
<incomprehensibly> what am i famous for?
<ec> I just mention him often, when I'm talking to him on here.
<alexgordon> did he knock on their doors?
<alexgordon> -paws
<purr> alexgordon: “the scientology of programming langiages” <http://ell.io/iksN9>
<ec> They just know that you're a friend of mine. I tend to make it sound like I'm your mentor. ;)
<alexgordon> damn
<alexgordon> where's the image
<alexgordon> WHERE'S THE IMAGE
<ec> alexgordon: … right there
<alexgordon> oh
<incomprehensibly> ec: haha
* ec laughs
* alexgordon is an idiot
<incomprehensibly> i actually talk about you a lot
<ec> d'awwwwwww
<ec> This is like,
<ec> when everyone knows you like a girl,
<ec> and all of her friends know she likes you,
<ec> but you're both oblivious to it
<alexgordon> LOL
<ec> and then THAT MOMENT when you both realize it
<incomprehensibly> to the point that when I say something about you my friend caius is like "well why don't you go marry him"
<ec> only, bromance.
<incomprehensibly> ec: lulul
* ec bromance-high-five's incomprehensibly
* incomprehensibly bromance high fives back
<alexgordon> the supreme court says it's alright now
<incomprehensibly> lul
<ec> 198.15.115.130:25804
<incomprehensibly> oshit i have to download minecraft on this NEW MACBOOK AIR
<incomprehensibly> downloaded
<incomprehensibly> LOGGING INNNNN
<incomprehensibly> -song music to walk home by
<purr> incomprehensibly: “Music to Walk Home By” by Tame Impala: <http://tinysong.com/17sy4>, “Home By,Music To Walk” by , Impala, Tame : <http://tinysong.com/1bol2>
<incomprehensibly> ...it won't let me click on the menu
<incomprehensibly> ok
<incomprehensibly> outdated server!
<incomprehensibly> :(
<incomprehensibly> ec: won't let me connect
<incomprehensibly> jesus i've been sitting on the couch with my laptop for hours and i still have 4 hrs battery life left
<incomprehensibly> alexgordon: clojure is actually pretty fast i hear
<incomprehensibly> because jvm
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly: it really isn't
<incomprehensibly> anyway even if it isn't faster than python it's ridiculously funner
<incomprehensibly> much more concise
<incomprehensibly> much less making you put things into a lot of different stateful statements
<incomprehensibly> anyway based on highly scientific blog posts clojure is a lot faster than python
<incomprehensibly> anyway python has GIL
<incomprehensibly> so can't be parallel
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly: but clojure is *slow* so there's no point in it being parallel
<incomprehensibly> lol
<purr> lol
<incomprehensibly> much faster than python
<alexgordon> better off writing single threaded java than multithreaded clojure
<incomprehensibly> slow is not a binary
<prophile> haskell
<prophile> in all cases
<prophile> it has STM
<alexgordon> prophile: lol haskell is slow
<alexgordon> and lazy
<prophile> no, it's incredibly fast because it uses llvm and has stm
<alexgordon> would you hire a lazy person? then why use a lazy programming language
<prophile> and is compiled
<alexgordon> logic: can't argue with it
<prophile> hah
<prophile> actually i'd say laziness is the mark of a good programmer
<prophile> a bad programmer will earnestly do the same thing many times, a lazy programmer will factor it out and do it once
<alexgordon> along with being 20 years old and being unpredictable?
<incomprehensibly> haskell is not that unpredictable
<incomprehensibly> like
<alexgordon> it really is
<incomprehensibly> its easy to tell when things are evaluated
<incomprehensibly> alexgordon: how much have you used it in anger
<incomprehensibly> you think about your program in the opposite direction from say python
<incomprehensibly> or java
<incomprehensibly> which isn't any harder
<alexgordon> I've been doing haskell for a while, it surprises me. I can't think what percentage of programmers are able to predict haskell's performance
<incomprehensibly> just get your mind into that mindset
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly: it IS harder because haskell works differently to other languages
<alexgordon> counterintuitively, even
<incomprehensibly> ok it's harder if you're used to predicting performance in other languages
<incomprehensibly> but it's not fundamentally harder
<alexgordon> which, almost all haskell programmers will be
<alexgordon> fundamentals are meaningless :P
<incomprehensibly> it's only harder if you're unwilling to change your mindset
<alexgordon> all that matters is money and girls, the rest is academic
<alexgordon> (can you tell when I'm being serious or not? I sure can't)
<prophile> i thought you, uh, swung the other way?
<alexgordon> ...
<alexgordon> you're thinking of ec
<prophile> no, i know ec is an equal-opportunities man
<incomprehensibly> it's not like haskell randomly chooses whether to evaluate expressions or not
<alexgordon> prophile: a feminist?
<incomprehensibly> it evaluates them when a sink asks for them
<prophile> alexgordon: i meant bisexual, lul
<incomprehensibly> which is not hard to predict
<prophile> which is a strict superset of bisexual
<alexgordon> lulsexual
<alexgordon> bisexlul
<alexgordon> anyway this just goes to prove that prophile can't tell when I'm being serious or not
<prophile> it makes it harder to read
<incomprehensibly> haskell performance is not unpredictable
<alexgordon> yes it is
<alexgordon> maybe not to a master
<alexgordon> but in Real Programming there's budget constraints
<alexgordon> does haskell improve things enough to compensate for the more expensive people you'll need to hire?
<incomprehensibly> ugh
<incomprehensibly> we're not talking about the programmer market
<alexgordon> lol
<purr> lol
<alexgordon> but
<alexgordon> this is the world
<alexgordon> programmers don't just write code for its own sake. we're not authors
<incomprehensibly> i'm not saying that you should hire non-haskell-programmers to write haskell
<incomprehensibly> jesus christ way to fucking change the argument to something it was not about in any way
<alexgordon> but then you can only hire haskell programmers
<alexgordon> I think we just have different points of view
<alexgordon> different values
<incomprehensibly> we weren't talking about who you can hire
<incomprehensibly> we were talking about unpredictable performance
<alexgordon> I see a programming language as a means to an end, a mere incidental part of programming
<alexgordon> right
<incomprehensibly> well right now I am also seeing clojure as that because I am actually making something
<alexgordon> but haskell is more than its semantics
<incomprehensibly> sure, if I wanted to hire a lot of programmers I wouldn't use Haskell
<incomprehensibly> that's not what we were talking about
<incomprehensibly> alexgordon (n.) someone who changes the topic of conversation too quickly for any point to be made
<alexgordon> LOL
<purr> LOL
<alexgordon> I just anticipate what people are going to say usually so I don't wait to hear them say it ;)
<incomprehensibly> ...
<alexgordon> I find that the most frustrating thing in the world
<alexgordon> (changing the topic)
<alexgordon> when you know what someone is going to say, before they say it
<alexgordon> then they *say* it, and it's like they've repeated themselves
<alexgordon> and you're like "I know that, I was in the process of thinking of a response before you interrupted my thought process by asking the thing I was responding to"
<alexgordon> lol
<purr> lol
<incomprehensibly> well I don't usually have that experience with you because instead of continuing the topic at hand, you start talking about something irrelevnt
<incomprehensibly> so I guess you succeed at not being frustrating to yourself
<alexgordon> yep!
<alexgordon> and in the end, isn't that all that matters
<incomprehensibly> :
<alexgordon> man when I say this stuff I sound like ec
<alexgordon> not good
<alexgordon> not good at all
<incomprehensibly> ec: couldn't login to server
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly: as I was saying just now in the Other Place, I read on HN once that it's better to "push" rather than "pull" information
<incomprehensibly> oh you read on hn once
<alexgordon> :P
<incomprehensibly> what was the argument
<alexgordon> as in, don't ask a question, but state an answer and someone will quickly tell you if you're wrong
<incomprehensibly> about: I'm done with this place.
<incomprehensibly> omg
<alexgordon> ?
<incomprehensibly> your profile
<incomprehensibly> on hn
<incomprehensibly> and were you referring to how haskell is kind of pull-ey because of laziness
<incomprehensibly> or more a social thing
<alexgordon> my profile on HN?
<alexgordon> I seem to remember I got really annoyed after HN went on a libertarian NHS bashing phase
<alexgordon> 2269!
<joelteon> so I have ios7
<alexgordon> joelteon: what's it like
<joelteon> it's very nice
<alexgordon> it feels like it needs more dropshadows
<alexgordon> lol
<purr> lol
<alexgordon> contrast is too low
<joelteon> heh
<joelteon> it's alright for me
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<ec> hi
<purr> ec: hi!
<ec> incomprehensibly: need your minecraft name
<incomprehensibly> ec: squoctopus
* incomprehensibly hides face in shame
* ec laughs
<ec> love it.
<incomprehensibly> i want to have wireless speakers and wireless audio interface and wireless keyboard/midi interface
<incomprehensibly> because this macbook air is basically wire-free 90% of the time thanks to battery life
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<ec> incomprehensibly: added.
<incomprehensibly> ec: thxthx
<incomprehensibly> i gtg soon though and not sure when I'll be back
<incomprehensibly> :/
<ec> that's fine!
<ec> I don't think she and I are playing tonight, either
<ec> just log on whenever and have fun
<ec> hopefully we'll hook up soon
<incomprehensibly> ok coo
<incomprehensibly> connection refused
<incomprehensibly> :c
<ec> micahjohnston: fixed
<incomprehensibly> coo
<incomprehensibly> I'M IN
* incomprehensibly is playing with a touchpad
<incomprehensibly> ok let's play sometime
<incomprehensibly> well i gtg
<incomprehensibly> bye
<incomprehensibly> <3
<incomprehensibly> i'm in love with clojure
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<ec> incomprehensibly: OH MY GOD
<ec> incomprehensibly: FUCKIN' STUDIO GHIBLI
<incomprehensibly> ec: YEAH I KNOW
<incomprehensibly> spirited away fuckin ripped my mind to shreds
<incomprehensibly> ponyo wasn't too bad either
<incomprehensibly> still have to watch totoro and all the others though
<gkatsev> lol
<purr> lol
<gkatsev> yeah, the studio ghibli movies are pretty good
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<ec> incomprehensibly: TOTORO IS THE BEST FUCKING THING IN THE WORLD
<ec> <3 Totoro
<purr> Let it be known that ec hearts Totoro.
<joelteon> studio giblet
<ec> *pop*
<ec> incomprehensibly: set up DNS: mc.ell.io:25804
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<incomprehensibly> ec: sweet
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<ec> hi
<purr> ec: hi!
<incomprehensibly> ec:
<alexgordon> hi
<purr> alexgordon: hi!
<incomprehensibly> alexgordon:
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly:
<ec> HI
<purr> ec: hi!
<ec> GUYS
<ec> I LIKE YOU ALL
<ec> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT PAWS
<yorick> except me, you don't even know me
<ec> Panera with the girlfriend on her way to work, and her mother
<ec> but then, maybe, some, paws
<ec> yorick: what even *are* you
<yorick> exactly!
<incomprehensibly> one thing that sucks about clojure is its error messages
<incomprehensibly> hopefully that won't make using it miserable
<alexgordon> ec, incomprehensibly: let us paws
<incomprehensibly> ya
<alexgordon> so you're on holiday incomprehensibly
<alexgordon> I presume
<incomprehensibly> yep
<alexgordon> school holidays in the UK don't start until the end of july
<incomprehensibly> oh wow
<incomprehensibly> how long do they last
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly: until september
<incomprehensibly> oh ok
<incomprehensibly> that's not too bad :P
<incomprehensibly> class starts on aug 22 for me
<incomprehensibly> brb
<alexgordon> 6 weeks
<incomprehensibly> oh yeah we have more like 10 weeks
<alexgordon> lucky
<alexgordon> though shorter time off at work
<alexgordon> so
<alexgordon> :P
<alexgordon> good childhood, miserable adulthood
<alexgordon> welcome to america
<incomprehensibly> haha
<incomprehensibly> yeah
<incomprehensibly> :(
<incomprehensibly> hi
<purr> incomprehensibly: hi!
<joelteon> ok here i am
<joelteon> hi incomprehensibly
<incomprehensibly> hi joelteon
<ec> hi
<purr> ec: hi!
<ec> there are otters in my room
<ec> guys are you going to minecraft with me
<joelteon> yeah
<joelteon> there's like forty
<ec> a little bit maybe perhaps mehhhhhhhhhhh ish
<ec> go away otters nobody likes lutrinae
<joelteon> shut up with your fancy nomenclature
<incomprehensibly> ec: clojurrrreeeee
<joelteon> nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
<incomprehensibly> there are a lot less assholes in the clojure community than in the haskell one it seems
<incomprehensibly> ec: on minecraft
<incomprehensibly> where r u
<joelteon> wat
<joelteon> dude haskell people are nice
<joelteon> so fuck yourself
<incomprehensibly> well most of them
<incomprehensibly> just
<incomprehensibly> some are convinced that if you disagree you simply do not understand
<incomprehensibly> there are also lots of nice people
<joelteon> yes
<incomprehensibly> but the clojure community seems to have a lower rate of people who care more about being right than being nice
<ec> incomprehensibly: HI
<ec> am back
<ec> <incomprehensibly> … seems to have a lower rate of people who care more about being right than being nice
<ec> qfft
<ec> I'M ON
<incomprehensibly> have to go weed
<incomprehensibly> lol
<purr> lol
<incomprehensibly> back
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly: how high?
<joelteon> i say smoke weed you say how high
<incomprehensibly> alexgordon: on the ground
<incomprehensibly> not a flowerbox or anything
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly: lol
<purr> lol
<alexgordon> not sure if joking
<alexgordon> <+incomprehensibly> have to go weed
<incomprehensibly> alexgordon: i weeded part of the lawn
<alexgordon> incomprehensibly: you have cannabis growing in your lawn?
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<incomprehensibly> yeah
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<ec> hi all
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<ec> malia!
<malia> hey ec sup? good to see you
<ec> playing minecraft with some of these niggahs
<ec> alexgordon: you should join us.
<alexgordon> (!)
<ec> alexgordon: Micah's bringing his friend, and Kelly's bringing her boyfriend, so I think it's pretty much a freeforall now. (=
* alexgordon can go to the ball
<alexgordon> but I'll need some shoes
<alexgordon> ec: what's the server
<ec> mc.ell.io:25804
<ec> wish I could change the fucking port
<alexgordon> haha
<alexgordon> hmm
<alexgordon> it's so hot
<alexgordon> do I dare turn on my computer
<ec> -learn minecraft = Come play with meee :3 <mc.ell.io:25804>
<purr> ec: Learned `minecraft`.
<ec> -learn alias mc = minecraft
<purr> ec: Learned `mc` => `minecraft`.
<alexgordon> think I will
<alexgordon> never used minecraft on linux
<malia> I would love to play minecraft, but, I need a haircut.
<alexgordon> ec: so whatcha doing ingame?
<ec> was just improving and creeper-proofing our shelter
<ec> we're only on our third or fourth night, or so
<ec> we explored a *little* bit down into a cave system, and sheltered from the mobs.
<ec> I'm about to reboot the server, and change it from “easy” to “normal”
<ec> need your minecraft username, too
<malia> ec how do I get hooked up with minecraft?
<ec> hahaha malia
<ec> it's a game, you can buy it:
<ec> alexgordon: what's your username?
<incomprehensibly> CLOJURE HAS THE BEST IMPLEMENTATION OF THE GAME OF LIFE
<incomprehensibly> IN LIKE 6 LINES USING SETS
<alexgordon> ec: good question
<incomprehensibly> instead of making it a 2d grid of 1s and 0s
<incomprehensibly> make it
<malia> I figured that ec but what is your username so I could find you?
<incomprehensibly> a set of coordinate pairs for the on-squares
<ec> malia: "elliottcable"
<alexgordon> ec: "alexgordon"
<ec> I've got a private server I can connect you to if you're going to play! :O
<malia> ec I think I can remember that
<incomprehensibly> ec: friend's user name is…
<incomprehensibly> AnimaWish
* alexgordon installs java
<ec> some day I need to set up a real server
<ec> on my purr server.
<ec> because it has spectacularly low ping, to me, and chelsea, and etc.
<incomprehensibly> ec: friend called server on his server list
<incomprehensibly> ec: "micah's bf's server"
<ec> awwwwww
<incomprehensibly> lulul
<ec> you're my favourite boyfriend <3
<ec> what's chelsea call it, fuck
<ec> “boy-frand”
<ec> tonight. is going to be awesome. we're going to drive back to rockford. I'm so excited.
<incomprehensibly> lolol
<purr> lolol
<ec> I don't know why. 'cause drive, I guess, and I miss, driving.
<incomprehensibly> i want to fly on an airplane
<incomprehensibly> and stay in a hotel
<ec> wat
<malia> ok, cul guys gotta get hair cut.. mmbye
<incomprehensibly> ˆlike doing those things
<ec> malia: <3
<ec> malia: talk to me soon.
<ec> malia: BEEN TOO LONG.
<alexgordon> LOL
<alexgordon> just realized that my PC has USB ports on the front
<alexgordon> clever PCs
<malia> ec yeah, call me
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<alexgordon> -minecraft
<purr> alexgordon: Come play with meee :3 <mc.ell.io:25804>
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<alexgordon> some random ruby process is using all my CPU
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<alexgordon> ec: is the server down?
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<alexgordon> ec: so
<alexgordon> pretty fucked
<alexgordon> how can I find my way back
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<ec> alex, no …
<alexgordon> ec: ?
<incomprehensibly> hi
<purr> incomprehensibly: hi!
<alexgordon> -nope
<purr> alexgordon: http://youtu.be/gvdf5n-zI14
<incomprehensibly> -yope
<purr> incomprehensibly: http://youtu.be/H6OtFKNDPUc
<incomprehensibly> alexgordon: omg he just says "no ..."
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