<purr\Paws>
[Issues] devyn comment on issue #17: I like the idea of using a single-consumption SSA type thing. Perhaps we can still have coproduction if we do something like this? (Excuse the horrible syntax.)... https://github.com/Paws/Issues/issues/17#issuecomment-53513961
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Hi
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: hi!
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you should be able to order-depend even if data is not returned
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you can
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: also, [#xx] is then a special case? because normally it would be ← locals?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
a b c (foo bar)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
No
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
#xx is a special case, [] means what it always has
<devyn>
so then it's infrastructure affix[] [locals #3] effectively?
<devyn>
additionally, that means that (#4) is really (locals #4) since it needs to work the same way
<gq>
eligrey: a) i'm on a laptop with windows 7 installed, it was a gift & free so i don't want to hear any bitching about that
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: also keep in mind that [] needs to refer basically to a moving pointer in each statement for coproduction to work. so at the statement-level, things are linear like Paws
<gq>
and b) yes i'm aware my browser needs to be fucked with thanks :P
<eligrey>
gq: return windows then
<gq>
eligrey: it was a free copy from a former employee
<gq>
but thanks for the tip
<eligrey>
even if they only give you $0
* gq
ignores any further advice b/c eligrey clearly has a bad case of the stupids
<devyn>
he's just a troll
<devyn>
ignore him
<eligrey>
i wouldn't pay for an os that forces me to type fqdns either
<devyn>
he only comes into #elliottcable to troll
<eligrey>
i only come here when called for
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
devyn: reading
* ELLIOTTCABLE
pats eligrey
<eligrey>
my only purpose here is to educate ELLIOTTCABLE's local trolls
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gq: eligrey is the channel devil; inimino is channel god; and gq is the channel mascot
<eligrey>
i'd like to think that this elevates me over his casual trols
<eligrey>
trolls*
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: awww tyvm
* gq
puts on a stupid hat & does a cheer
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
devyn: so what's the @ mean?
<eligrey>
i wonder who the god of #inimino is
<gq>
probably something boring like The Spirit of Programming
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and you're right, the [] were unnecessary in my example, I think?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
eligrey: ELLIOTTCABLE.
<eligrey>
no no no
<eligrey>
stop
<eligrey>
i won't listen to this blasphemy
<gq>
eligrey: grey is white! black is down! purple is god and Devil is angel!
<gq>
CHAOS, GLORIOUS CHAOS
<gq>
-fingernails @ eligrey
<purr>
eligrey: dreeping down my strema
* gq
giggles
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-learn purple = purple is god and Devil is angel!
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: Learned `purple`.
<gq>
sexcellent.
<eligrey>
i can't believe i couldn't see it
<eligrey>
#oftn is the worse cult!
<eligrey>
you don't want to be the _better_ cult
<gq>
it really is
<eligrey>
it all makes sense now
<gq>
i got banned from there
<gq>
worst day ever tbqh
<eligrey>
wait srsly
* gq
giggles
<gq>
yes srsly eligrey
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
srsly
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: @ means “order-dependency” i.e., don't actually use the data but just wait for that until you continue
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
why not just (#foo)?
<devyn>
because (#foo) would introduce a data-dependency unless we special-case it
<devyn>
it would actually be (locals #foo)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
no, () is no-data
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
as you suggested way back when
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
data flows-through
<devyn>
right, but there's a data-dependency *within* the ()
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so `foo (...) bar` is semantically identical to `foo bar` except for the ordering
<devyn>
because it has to be able to send the result of #foo to locals
<devyn>
which would mean effectively there's no point except that it would be a void-ish
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
errrrrrrrrrrr
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
very confused.
<devyn>
okay look
<devyn>
when I write
<devyn>
a b c (foo bar)
<devyn>
I'm really doing: locals a b c (locals foo bar)
<devyn>
and the data is discarded, but there's an order dependency
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh I see, I thiiiink
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but ‘locals’ isn't actually, like, a node.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
That's a runtime semantic
<devyn>
however, doing: a b c (#4)
<devyn>
would be the same as doing: locals a b c (locals #4)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ALLLLL we're talking about here, is a one-to-one conversion between a graph, and a text document.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so, ignore locals for a bit.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nono wrong, because, at the stage we're talking about, locals doesn't exist
<devyn>
no, locals is extremely relevant to this
<devyn>
or at least, you're juxing that against *something*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
go on
<devyn>
you have to jux the start of an expression against something
<devyn>
right?
* ELLIOTTCABLE
nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
or, rather,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you *don't* have to combine it against something, but if you don't, that implicitly means locals
<devyn>
well then the (#4) means, let's take the value of #4 and jux it against something… and order depend on that.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nah
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
not at all
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
because
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
4: a b c d
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
means let's take a, and juxtapose it against locals.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
look at it this way:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
take out the #4 completely and write it out
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
foo (a b c d) bar
<devyn>
then what about 4: #3 b c d
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
is two data-flows: `foo bar` and `a b c d`
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
each of those is an expression, from Paws' point of view, if we discard the ordering information;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and thus `locals` is implicitly prepended to each expression
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
depends on the contents of 3, and the context in which 4 is used.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
those are just nodes.
<devyn>
well, more accurately, `locals` is the starting point. you need to have something initially to jux against
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
there's no `locals` node, ever.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so, if, at runtime, there's nothing *before* the first node of 3,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
then a juxtaposition against locals will happen;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but if there *is* something before, then it won't
<devyn>
but there isn't anything; (#4)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
again: I posit that this is a runtime concern, unrelated to the syntax we use to express a graph.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
maybe this example will make it clear:
<devyn>
okay look: you agree that there *is* a difference between `foo #4` and `foo [#4]`, right? logically `foo (#4)` should be the same within the parens as the brackets; it's just the outside impact that's different
<eligrey>
gq and i had a couple thousand line pm convo
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I don't think it should be the same, at all. [] is a intra-language construct; () is an extra-language construct.
<eligrey>
i agree that they should be the mascot
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
in fact you make a valid point by accident, there.
<eligrey>
under one condition
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the ordering-dependency syntax is so *unrelated* to the language, that it might make sense to separate it somehow.
<eligrey>
ELLIOTTCABLE steps down as dictator and replaces himself with purr
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
idk yet now.
<devyn>
@
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<devyn>
use a prefix
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gotcha, maybe
<devyn>
it separates it very well
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lemme think about it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but, ignoring that concern for now, are we on the same page?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
check out the gist I pasted.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
important realization there:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the graph described by that, will execute `a b c d` very differently from the same graph without line 2.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
in one, `a b c d` is actually a *part* of another data-flow (line 2)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
in the other, it's not; which would basically make it its ‘own line of code.’
<gq>
eligrey: you have to say his name like 3 times or he won't pay attention
<gq>
eligrey: like, one name per line
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gq: I just studiously ignore sephr. :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
at least, when having useful discussions.
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: his name is eligrey now you twat
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: eligrey is like top 5 useful ones here
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
his contributions are never relevant or useful.
<eligrey>
i invented paws
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
he's a bit like a less-benign otters.
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: but as usual you are a predjudiced fuck
<eligrey>
ELLIOTTCABLE: lest you forget
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: otters is like no 5
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: and he's joelteon now, not otters
<eligrey>
i gave you the idea one night
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gq: have you *ever* seen eligrey comment on anything seriously?
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yes.
<eligrey>
you were stoned to fuck
<eligrey>
and i whispered it in your ear
* ELLIOTTCABLE
pats eligrey
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: like when i told him i tried to kill myself 24 hours ago
<eligrey>
you don't remember me there
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: he was very serious.
* gq
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: the way I'm thinking, [#3] should really rarely be a useful thing to do… that would be like doing [[foo bar]]… like, that would be useful in some cases but it's not what we're generally trying to accomplish here
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: so bare #3
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh yeah
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: widget #3 wodget
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that was just a bug in my initial gist
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you're correct about that.
<devyn>
right, but I'm saying if you're going to have (), then that should be consistent with that
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but again, these are just nodes.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so `a <anything> c`
<devyn>
otherwise (#3) has to be a special case from (foo bar)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
is c flow-dependant on <anything>, flow-dependant on A
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but. still haven't grokked how this screws up the locals-semantics I have in my head.
<gq>
see, eligrey, this is why i like you
<gq>
unlike ec, you are not a TOTAL sociopath
* gq
nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
…
<gq>
...
<eligrey>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you need to hide it better
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you go back and forth between hating me for absolutely no reason.
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: no, see, when i mention i tried to kill myself yesterday?
<gq>
normal people don't FUCKING IGNORE that
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
eligrey is a completely unrepentant troll, whom I put up with because he doesn't actually do anything *wrong* except constantly annoy me.
<gq>
they go, oh really?
<eligrey>
ELLIOTTCABLE: honestly it's probably because of your always-yelling capslocked name
<gq>
he's not a troll
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I don't want “don't annoy ELLIOTTCABLE” to be a channel rule; otherwise, I'd ban him.
<gq>
you have banned me in the past
<gq>
for the sin of saying the truth
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I've done *nothing* unkind to you recently, gq; so don't fucking call me out for being a total sociopath,
<gq>
i'm close to doing it now so i'll sign off
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*especially* compared to eligrey, who *absolutely is*.
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yes, you have.
<gq>
you said a friend of yours tried to suicide
<eligrey>
i recall working on some open source project or something with you ELLIOTTCABLE
<eligrey>
don't i matter?
<gq>
then said suicide is cowardly and completely alien to you
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gq: I'm happy to talk about it!
<gq>
i don't want to talk about it.
<gq>
i was just letting you know, alright?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
THEN WHY ARE YOU ANGRY AT ME FOR NOT TRYING TO TALK ABOUT IT?
<gq>
now you and devyn are getting work done
<gq>
and i don't want to interrupt you
<gq>
i'm not mad
<gq>
holy shit
<gq>
i am very calm IRL.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
…
<gq>
you can tell because i'm not screaming and swearing at you in channel.
<gq>
excepting 'holy shit'
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I don't know, fucking *calling me a sociopath* to defend Eli, sure as hell parses as ‘angry at me.’
<gq>
which was said out of surprise/frustration.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whatevs, back to irl socials.
<gq>
well then redo your parses.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
devyn: talk later when the trolls are gone. ಠ_ಠ
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: anyway……… I think an order-dep prefix is a lot more consistent & less intrusive. and, sure.
<gq>
I'm not a troll. I don't even /read/ homestuck, jesus christ.
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<gq>
devyn: please calm him down, i gotta go take an ativan before i seize to death
<gq>
:P
<devyn>
<3 gq
<purr>
Let it be known that devyn hearts gq.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
devyn: as in, use the same syntax for () and [], but prefix one?
<gq>
<3 devyn
<purr>
Let it be known that gq hearts devyn.
* ELLIOTTCABLE
sighs
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gq: thanks.
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: no, get rid of ()
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gq: just, thanks.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
devyn: so @[] == ()
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yep.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gotcha, bbl
<devyn>
it totally works.
<gq>
ELLIOTTCABLE: go get drunk or however you deal with feelings, just try not to roadtrip again, okay? call your sister and say i was a dick, just....take care of yourself
<gq>
<3 elliottcable
<purr>
Let it be known that gq hearts elliottcable.
gq has quit []
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
…
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and she acts as if I'm a totally unstable maniac who's going to go kill himself because she was kind of mean on an IRC channel?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ugh, it's so hard to deal with her. |=<
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<devyn>
was looking for Canada-based hosting, and I've found a VPS service that I'm seriously impressed with
<devyn>
Cloud A
<devyn>
they're openstack like rackspace
<devyn>
but it's like, all new stuff
<gq>
eligrey: i looked at that imgur you sent me. nvm all my hard words, you do important work!
<devyn>
and hosted in Canada
* gq
elevates eligrey to Coder in Residence of the chan
<eligrey>
oh i assumed you already saw it and deleted it
<eligrey>
at least you opened it before i deleted it
<gq>
eligrey: yeah i just had itsitting open
<gq>
:)
<eligrey>
basically that's the reason for
<eligrey>
-sephr
<purr>
eligrey: sephr isn't a country and if he was a country his name isn't anguilla
<gq>
cute
<gq>
eligrey: so do you have recommendations for chans to join if i'm learning like 5 langs at once because all the 'standard' ones bore the shit out of me?
<eligrey>
just being able to type http://ai and going to some website called Strong AI Case Study: eligrey bot would be awesome
<eligrey>
gq: um learn haskell-based langs
<gq>
eligrey: i know people here like to call me stupid but i don't make an effort in here because why the fuck would i? i just get discouraged by all the smart fuckers.
<gq>
eligrey: okay! thanks for the recommendation
<eligrey>
or learn javascript if you want to do web stuff
<eligrey>
c# is also good but it's more mainstream
<gq>
eligrey: i have the course open in codeacademy
<gq>
or, java, i think
<gq>
yeah it might be java
<eligrey>
no dont learn java
<gq>
i know this is like Super Newb
<eligrey>
java will hurt
<gq>
of me but i get java and javascript mixed up
<gq>
they both need new names!
<gq>
where is that quote on the ec tumblr quote chan
<eligrey>
and you'll wake up feeling sick the next day if you learn java
<gq>
it's like, if i ever make a language
<gq>
it's gonna be called
<gq>
YOU ALL SUCK
<gq>
or something similarly immature
<gq>
because seriously. brogrammer culture is so unproductive
<gq>
"lol ur a girl? titpix lol send me a pic of u wif a shoe on your head"
<purr>
lol
<gq>
i shouldn't have to deal with a week of sexual harassment and bs
<gq>
whereas if i was guy they'd just be like "oh, okay! you're interested? here's all our info, this is what we need, etc"
<eligrey>
that's why i tell everyone i'm a guy
* gq
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<eligrey>
and the reason there are zero pictures of me online
<gq>
eligrey: if i found out you were a woman irl i might literally explode from squee.
<gq>
eligrey: also uhhhh i have seriously considered becoming a male transsexual
<eligrey>
ELLIOTTCABLE didn't know i was serious when he was talking about the Grey-Cable dynasty
<gq>
eligrey: so my 'woman' status is not very stable.
<gq>
eligrey: lollllll
<gq>
eligrey: did he ragequit or is he still active here?
<gq>
...
<gq>
also brb exploding from squee
<eligrey>
no ELLIOTTCABLE isn't active in these parts
<gq>
:p
<gq>
oh
<eligrey>
i haven't seen him in ages
<gq>
'ages' like more than an hour ago :P
<eligrey>
i aged an entire hour
<gq>
that's fair
<gq>
last time i checked you were like
<gq>
14
<eligrey>
might as well start the grave now
<gq>
so hey
* gq
digs a hole and labels it "for programmers trying to do srs work in #elliottcable
<gq>
RIP, gone too soon, etc
<eligrey>
brb
<gq>
kk
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<devyn>
gq: I don't think anyone's called you stupid in here specifically… we're happy for anyone to learn. just don't be surprised if you ask/say something very wrong and people are kind of a dick about that, because people are like that :p
<joelteon>
wow
<joelteon>
simple's notifications are INSTANT
<joelteon>
i just renewed my car registration on the DMV website and simple showed the transaction 0.5s later
<devyn>
well all of the infrastructure is there, I mean… the financial system needs to be able to operate very quickly
<joelteon>
but it's the american financial system
<joelteon>
also i'm not sure how the simple app gets notifications
<devyn>
is simple an online bank?
<joelteon>
yeah
<devyn>
well, yeah, exactly; the website has to contact them to approve the transaction directly
<devyn>
so they know
<joelteon>
so what, does the app have an always-open tcp connection
<devyn>
and then they can just push that out to the app through their internal infrastructure
<devyn>
well, Apple and Google have notification infrastructure that they provide I think
<gq>
devyn: good teachers are kind about beginner mistakes
<gq>
but i have a bad reputation in this channel and deserve any and all dickishness, i know.
* gq
sighs
<gq>
sorry, i'm sensitive
<gq>
the aforementioned suicide attempt.
<gq>
:/
<gq>
my scabs hurt.
* gq
numb
<gq>
taking meds for the night
<devyn>
gq: there's a difference between teachers and just regular people who aren't really interested in teaching you
<devyn>
not everyone *is* a good teacher
<devyn>
and there's nothing wrong with that, I think; sure, they might be rude about correcting you but that doesn't mean they're not happy you're learning
<devyn>
there's a difference between that and actually wanting to teach you quite directly, which not everyone does
<devyn>
gq: also, bad reputation, pff… we all have some kind of reputation of some sort here, and none of them are really objectively good haha
<devyn>
(if you can even define such a thing, which you can't)
<devyn>
your presence is appreciated
<gq>
devyn: by you, if not by my...ex.
<gq>
i hesitate to call him by name lest the 'bawwww' begin
<gq>
>.<
<devyn>
gq: <3
<gq>
devyn: <3333
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon: omfg, I love Simple so much.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon: I use it to know if my waiter is being slow :D
<joelteon>
nice
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon: … do you not know how push notifications work? :x
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gq: I did appreciate you. Right up until you went batshit again and started insulting me, this evening. /=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hell, that's not even true. I still appreciate you *now*.
<gq>
a) i'm in the middle of a mixed episode
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it just hurt *more* that you pulled that, because I was starting to be excited about being friends with you again
<joelteon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: no
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
after talking with you while I was in montana.
<gq>
b) if you cannot agree that you are empathy-deficient, then you really are stupid
<gq>
c) i do not care about your whining
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I don't.
gq has left #elliottcable ["bye"]
* ELLIOTTCABLE
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so much fuck that shit.
<joelteon>
how do push notifications work
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
devyn: hi, I'm around (clearly)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
a little distracted trying to Blender, but, yeah.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon: basically the vendors of various devices work with the carriers to maintain a single (or effectively single) always-open connection, as you mentioned, to each device they sell,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and then offer free services to developers to push crap down that connection of a specific, very-constrained form.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
usually, there's some tight integration between that tunnel and the O.S.;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
for instance push notifications that show up in the OS can then feed some information to apps when later interacted with, or can invoke a change of state in the OS itself in some cases (moreso with Android than iOS)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but crucially, apps themselves have don't really have much in the way of access to that tunnel.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's *exclusively* for data in aformentioned constrained form, and *exclusively* for things that are directly shown to, and interacted with, by the user.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ugh blender how even
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so confus
<joelteon>
ok
<joelteon>
neat
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean, I'm fairly down with big complex apps; I used to be a FCP guru, long before I was very good with computers … and I took a few courses on CAD, way back when,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but for some reason this is just boggling me
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ugh can't relax.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
shit with gqbrielle has me all tense and upset, which it really shouldn't. It's not like it's the first fucking time.
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<Cheery>
designed a format
<Cheery>
PNG-style header
<Cheery>
then there's stream of nodes
<Cheery>
4-byte ID, 3-byte data length, 6-bit label length, 2-bit type, label, data
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<gq>
-gqbrielle
<purr>
gq: she is not devyn (I think.)
<gq>
-vil
<purr>
gq: the one who wears rugs.
<gq>
hee
<gq>
hi vil :)
<vil>
hey gq!
<gq>
how's yourself?
<vil>
pretty good, getting moved in up at school
<vil>
how about you?
<gq>
i'm moving out soon
<gq>
we found a cheap apartment
<gq>
d's registered for school
<vil>
nice!
<gq>
i tried to kill myself eysterday morning but oh well
<gq>
i am LOOKING FORWARD.
<gq>
x.x
<vil>
yikes
<gq>
i am really, truly not saying that in an effort for a pity grab
<vil>
but yes, forward is good!
<gq>
i just...am acting a bit erratic lately so people seem concerned
<gq>
i'm ahving a mixed episode; the meds are helping a little
<gq>
and i can't eac today until after my doc appt
* vil
hugs gq
<gq>
*can't eat
* gq
hugs vil
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<Cheery>
bought an apple tree
<gq>
really? we have two next to the house
<gq>
where will you put it, Cheery?
<Cheery>
probably couple meters off from a decorative apple tree and redcurrant bushes
<gq>
nice
<Cheery>
it's very moist ground, so I remove only a small layer of ground, and plant the thing high.
<Cheery>
the decorative tree seemed to enjoy same config.
<gq>
cool!
<gq>
we live in a desert-type climate
<gq>
so i assume the apple tree was built a-purpose
<gq>
the land is really old, i've found buried farm tools
<gq>
we have a well and pump all our own water
<gq>
there's some type of natural aquifer
<gq>
have to filter it like 3x to make it safe for drinking
<gq>
but the plants love it and so do we
<Cheery>
here in where I live, there's probably been no-one living before my family.
<gq>
i suspect this is ancient Spokane land
<gq>
:/
<gq>
nothing i can do about that though
<gq>
as the eldest if they leave it to me i'll turn it into a volunteer daycare or something else
<gq>
it's seen too much pain.
<Cheery>
anyway. going to plant the plant.
<gq>
kk
<Cheery>
probably not coding today :)
<Cheery>
I have few more other plants too.
<gq>
i can only deal with tough plants that find water themselves
<gq>
my mental issues make it difficult to do daily chores
<gq>
i've had a little cactus for a few years now
<gq>
he's doing great!
<vil>
I've killed every plant I've ever tried to take care of
<vil>
very nearly including the one in my avatar, but my mom saved it
<gq>
vil: i once grew sunflowers the size of my face
<gq>
i tried to put them outside
<gq>
the deer literally bit the heads off
<gq>
and spat them out
<gq>
;~;
<vil>
awww
<gq>
i was like, 12, lol
<gq>
i think i cried about that haha
<vil>
we had giant sunflower next to our garage one year, they were almost the height of the garage
<vil>
but some bug started to eat the seeds after that year
<gq>
they were a mini variety
<gq>
i got them as a gift
<gq>
grew them on my windowsill
<gq>
they were really hardy, i would forget to water them but they always stayed alive
<gq>
the bloody geraniums we got for free from the plant store? different story
<vil>
hehe
<gq>
i think that thing managed blossoms maybe 5 times
<gq>
in all the years i had it.
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<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: another thing is that routines will, I think, have to explicitly accept arguments at defined points. perhaps `infrastructure execution pop[]` or something
<devyn>
the old `unstage[]` method is no longer applicable as there's no longer just one hole to fill in a routine at any given time; [] refers to the hole within the current statement
<devyn>
ideally, ELLIOTTCABLE, I want this to behave as similarly to Paws as possible, with the Tires-y goodness as a kind of extension
<devyn>
responsibility will of course still be a thing, but again, it will be statement-delaying instead of entire-Execution-delaying
<devyn>
so essentially I think Executions now just become graph containers (statement groups)
<devyn>
and the statements individually are the linear components
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<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: also haven't exactly defined the behavior of [a b; c d]: I believe it should return only the value of `c d`, but should it wait for `a b` as well? I think it has to, because `&[a b] [c d]` doesn't execute them in parallel; it orders. I suppose `&[a b; foo: c d] #foo` may work?
<devyn>
ELLIOTTCABLE: btw @ → & because I think it looks better
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<Cheery>
back from planting
<Cheery>
slight insanity to bring up so many plants at once
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<joelteon>
hey, is anyone here good at networking
<Cheery>
joelteon: social networking or stuff like sockets?
<joelteon>
sockets
<joelteon>
specifically configuring ipv6
<Cheery>
haven't studied that subject.
<joelteon>
great
<eligrey>
joelteon: yeah i can check enable ipv6 on my router
<eligrey>
if that counts
<joelteon>
ok
<joelteon>
what if it doesn't
<eligrey>
probably an issue with your modem/isp if your router and clients are all ipv6 capable
<joelteon>
router is ipv6 capable but doesn't give me an address over dhcpv6, the only officially supported way on this network is to install a third-party dhcp client
<joelteon>
i don't really want to install a third-party dhcp client