ELLIOTTCABLE changed the topic of #elliottcable to: a _better_ cult ˙ ͜ʟ˙ embrace, extend, extinguish.
<gq> kk
<eligrey_> Cheery: eligrey comes before ELLIOTTCABLE and your autocomplete knows it
<eligrey_> trust in autocomplete
eligrey_ is now known as eligrey
<gq> but sephr comes after Cheery, gq, AND ELLIOTTCABLE
<gq> :>
<gq> -sephr
<purr> gq: sephr isn't a country and if he was a country his name isn't anguilla
<gq> -eligrey @ eligrey
<gq> boring
<gq> lol i clicked that link and its a 404
<purr> lol
<gq> PURR KNOWS NOTHING OF ELIGREY ANYMORE
<gq> CRISIS
* gq runs in circles shrieking, hits wall, falls down
<eligrey> gq: oh i changed my name and all of my domains
<eligrey> my name is now elliott
<eligrey> and my domain is ell.io now
<eligrey> or maybe it's anguilla
<eligrey> and my domain is http://ai
<gq> i totally believe you.
<gq> "ai is not available"
<gq> you are bad at being professional and you should feel bad
* gq goes back to white hatting
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<eligrey> gq: ai is a website
<eligrey> your dns implementation sucks
<eligrey> gq: try http://ai.
<eligrey> with a dot at the end
<eligrey> if that works and not http://ai complain to whoever made your shitty os
<eligrey> i don't have to type FQDNs thats fucking stupid
<eligrey> http://google.com. <-- wut
<eligrey> who seriously types the dot at the end
<purr\Paws> [Issues] devyn comment on issue #17: I like the idea of using a single-consumption SSA type thing. Perhaps we can still have coproduction if we do something like this? (Excuse the horrible syntax.)... https://github.com/Paws/Issues/issues/17#issuecomment-53513961
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Hi
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: hi!
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: you should be able to order-depend even if data is not returned
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you can
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: also, [#xx] is then a special case? because normally it would be ← locals?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> a b c (foo bar)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> No
<ELLIOTTCABLE> #xx is a special case, [] means what it always has
<devyn> so then it's infrastructure affix[] [locals #3] effectively?
<devyn> additionally, that means that (#4) is really (locals #4) since it needs to work the same way
<devyn> which is weird
<eligrey> gq: return your OS disk to apple because it's broken https://i.imgur.com/QXFclYW.png
<devyn> and probably wouldn't even work since it would then introduce data-dependency
<devyn> to be able to send to locals
<eligrey> either that or it's apple anti-anguilla agenda
<eligrey> apple's*
<eligrey> ELLIOTTCABLE: i'll finish implementing all of paws for you
<eligrey> but i'll make the reference core in lojban
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: I'm actually inclined to make order dep. a prefix instead. something like: `a b c @[foo bar]` and `a b c @#4`
<ELLIOTTCABLE> What
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: nah, nodes juxtaposed against nothing are implicitly juxtaposed against locals, in all cases
<ELLIOTTCABLE> need to work on it more
<devyn> well exactly, that's why it's a problem
<devyn> if you do a prefix
<eligrey> ELLIOTTCABLE: i'm saying that i'll finish it, just not in english
<devyn> then you don't have that problem
<eligrey> in order to make it more difficult to use for most people
<devyn> @#4 would not jux anything
<devyn> @"some symbol" would basically be a no-op because it would order immediately
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Can't keep taking now, on iPhone, and screen is broken
<devyn> @#4 would at least wait
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Really hard to read >,>
<eligrey> the more exclusive your programming language cult is, the more girls you get
<devyn> @[...] would discard, but wait
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Talk soon?
<devyn> sure, kk
<devyn> eligrey: exactly
<eligrey> devyn: call me if you ever need some emergency science
<eligrey> on the house
<gq> eligrey: a) i'm on a laptop with windows 7 installed, it was a gift & free so i don't want to hear any bitching about that
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: also keep in mind that [] needs to refer basically to a moving pointer in each statement for coproduction to work. so at the statement-level, things are linear like Paws
<gq> and b) yes i'm aware my browser needs to be fucked with thanks :P
<eligrey> gq: return windows then
<gq> eligrey: it was a free copy from a former employee
<gq> but thanks for the tip
<eligrey> even if they only give you $0
* gq ignores any further advice b/c eligrey clearly has a bad case of the stupids
<devyn> he's just a troll
<devyn> ignore him
<eligrey> i wouldn't pay for an os that forces me to type fqdns either
<devyn> he only comes into #elliottcable to troll
<eligrey> i only come here when called for
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: reading
* ELLIOTTCABLE pats eligrey
<eligrey> my only purpose here is to educate ELLIOTTCABLE's local trolls
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gq: eligrey is the channel devil; inimino is channel god; and gq is the channel mascot
<eligrey> i'd like to think that this elevates me over his casual trols
<eligrey> trolls*
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: awww tyvm
* gq puts on a stupid hat & does a cheer
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: so what's the @ mean?
<eligrey> i wonder who the god of #inimino is
<gq> probably something boring like The Spirit of Programming
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and you're right, the [] were unnecessary in my example, I think?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> eligrey: ELLIOTTCABLE.
<eligrey> no no no
<eligrey> stop
<eligrey> i won't listen to this blasphemy
<gq> eligrey: grey is white! black is down! purple is god and Devil is angel!
<gq> CHAOS, GLORIOUS CHAOS
<gq> -fingernails @ eligrey
<purr> eligrey: dreeping down my strema
* gq giggles
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -learn purple = purple is god and Devil is angel!
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: Learned `purple`.
<gq> sexcellent.
<eligrey> i can't believe i couldn't see it
<eligrey> #oftn is the worse cult!
<eligrey> you don't want to be the _better_ cult
<gq> it really is
<eligrey> it all makes sense now
<gq> i got banned from there
<gq> worst day ever tbqh
<eligrey> wait srsly
* gq giggles
<gq> yes srsly eligrey
<ELLIOTTCABLE> srsly
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: @ means “order-dependency” i.e., don't actually use the data but just wait for that until you continue
<ELLIOTTCABLE> why not just (#foo)?
<devyn> because (#foo) would introduce a data-dependency unless we special-case it
<devyn> it would actually be (locals #foo)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> no, () is no-data
<ELLIOTTCABLE> as you suggested way back when
<ELLIOTTCABLE> data flows-through
<devyn> right, but there's a data-dependency *within* the ()
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so `foo (...) bar` is semantically identical to `foo bar` except for the ordering
<devyn> because it has to be able to send the result of #foo to locals
<devyn> which would mean effectively there's no point except that it would be a void-ish
<ELLIOTTCABLE> errrrrrrrrrrr
<ELLIOTTCABLE> very confused.
<devyn> okay look
<devyn> when I write
<devyn> a b c (foo bar)
<devyn> I'm really doing: locals a b c (locals foo bar)
<devyn> and the data is discarded, but there's an order dependency
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh I see, I thiiiink
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but ‘locals’ isn't actually, like, a node.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> That's a runtime semantic
<devyn> however, doing: a b c (#4)
<devyn> would be the same as doing: locals a b c (locals #4)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ALLLLL we're talking about here, is a one-to-one conversion between a graph, and a text document.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so, ignore locals for a bit.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nono wrong, because, at the stage we're talking about, locals doesn't exist
<devyn> no, locals is extremely relevant to this
<devyn> or at least, you're juxing that against *something*
<ELLIOTTCABLE> go on
<devyn> you have to jux the start of an expression against something
<devyn> right?
* ELLIOTTCABLE nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE> or, rather,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you *don't* have to combine it against something, but if you don't, that implicitly means locals
<devyn> well then the (#4) means, let's take the value of #4 and jux it against something… and order depend on that.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nah
<ELLIOTTCABLE> not at all
<ELLIOTTCABLE> because
<ELLIOTTCABLE> 4: a b c d
<ELLIOTTCABLE> means let's take a, and juxtapose it against locals.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> look at it this way:
<ELLIOTTCABLE> take out the #4 completely and write it out
<ELLIOTTCABLE> foo (a b c d) bar
<devyn> then what about 4: #3 b c d
<ELLIOTTCABLE> is two data-flows: `foo bar` and `a b c d`
<ELLIOTTCABLE> each of those is an expression, from Paws' point of view, if we discard the ordering information;
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and thus `locals` is implicitly prepended to each expression
<ELLIOTTCABLE> depends on the contents of 3, and the context in which 4 is used.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> those are just nodes.
<devyn> well, more accurately, `locals` is the starting point. you need to have something initially to jux against
<ELLIOTTCABLE> there's no `locals` node, ever.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so, if, at runtime, there's nothing *before* the first node of 3,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> then a juxtaposition against locals will happen;
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but if there *is* something before, then it won't
<devyn> but there isn't anything; (#4)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> again: I posit that this is a runtime concern, unrelated to the syntax we use to express a graph.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> maybe this example will make it clear:
<devyn> okay look: you agree that there *is* a difference between `foo #4` and `foo [#4]`, right? logically `foo (#4)` should be the same within the parens as the brackets; it's just the outside impact that's different
<eligrey> gq and i had a couple thousand line pm convo
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I don't think it should be the same, at all. [] is a intra-language construct; () is an extra-language construct.
<eligrey> i agree that they should be the mascot
<ELLIOTTCABLE> in fact you make a valid point by accident, there.
<eligrey> under one condition
<ELLIOTTCABLE> the ordering-dependency syntax is so *unrelated* to the language, that it might make sense to separate it somehow.
<eligrey> ELLIOTTCABLE steps down as dictator and replaces himself with purr
<ELLIOTTCABLE> idk yet now.
<devyn> @
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<devyn> use a prefix
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gotcha, maybe
<devyn> it separates it very well
<ELLIOTTCABLE> lemme think about it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but, ignoring that concern for now, are we on the same page?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> check out the gist I pasted.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> important realization there:
<ELLIOTTCABLE> the graph described by that, will execute `a b c d` very differently from the same graph without line 2.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> in one, `a b c d` is actually a *part* of another data-flow (line 2)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> in the other, it's not; which would basically make it its ‘own line of code.’
<gq> eligrey: you have to say his name like 3 times or he won't pay attention
<gq> eligrey: like, one name per line
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gq: I just studiously ignore sephr. :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE> at least, when having useful discussions.
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: his name is eligrey now you twat
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: eligrey is like top 5 useful ones here
<ELLIOTTCABLE> his contributions are never relevant or useful.
<eligrey> i invented paws
<ELLIOTTCABLE> he's a bit like a less-benign otters.
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: but as usual you are a predjudiced fuck
<eligrey> ELLIOTTCABLE: lest you forget
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: otters is like no 5
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: and he's joelteon now, not otters
<eligrey> i gave you the idea one night
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gq: have you *ever* seen eligrey comment on anything seriously?
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: yes.
<eligrey> you were stoned to fuck
<eligrey> and i whispered it in your ear
* ELLIOTTCABLE pats eligrey
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: like when i told him i tried to kill myself 24 hours ago
<eligrey> you don't remember me there
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: he was very serious.
* gq shrugs
<purr> ¯\(º_o)/¯
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: the way I'm thinking, [#3] should really rarely be a useful thing to do… that would be like doing [[foo bar]]… like, that would be useful in some cases but it's not what we're generally trying to accomplish here
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: so bare #3
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh yeah
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: widget #3 wodget
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that was just a bug in my initial gist
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you're correct about that.
<devyn> right, but I'm saying if you're going to have (), then that should be consistent with that
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but again, these are just nodes.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so `a <anything> c`
<devyn> otherwise (#3) has to be a special case from (foo bar)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> is c flow-dependant on <anything>, flow-dependant on A
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but. still haven't grokked how this screws up the locals-semantics I have in my head.
<gq> see, eligrey, this is why i like you
<gq> unlike ec, you are not a TOTAL sociopath
* gq nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE> …
<gq> ...
<eligrey> ELLIOTTCABLE: you need to hide it better
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you go back and forth between hating me for absolutely no reason.
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: no, see, when i mention i tried to kill myself yesterday?
<gq> normal people don't FUCKING IGNORE that
<ELLIOTTCABLE> eligrey is a completely unrepentant troll, whom I put up with because he doesn't actually do anything *wrong* except constantly annoy me.
<gq> they go, oh really?
<eligrey> ELLIOTTCABLE: honestly it's probably because of your always-yelling capslocked name
<gq> he's not a troll
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I don't want “don't annoy ELLIOTTCABLE” to be a channel rule; otherwise, I'd ban him.
<gq> you have banned me in the past
<gq> for the sin of saying the truth
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I've done *nothing* unkind to you recently, gq; so don't fucking call me out for being a total sociopath,
<gq> i'm close to doing it now so i'll sign off
<ELLIOTTCABLE> *especially* compared to eligrey, who *absolutely is*.
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: yes, you have.
<gq> you said a friend of yours tried to suicide
<eligrey> i recall working on some open source project or something with you ELLIOTTCABLE
<eligrey> don't i matter?
<gq> then said suicide is cowardly and completely alien to you
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gq: I'm happy to talk about it!
<gq> i don't want to talk about it.
<gq> i was just letting you know, alright?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> THEN WHY ARE YOU ANGRY AT ME FOR NOT TRYING TO TALK ABOUT IT?
<gq> now you and devyn are getting work done
<gq> and i don't want to interrupt you
<gq> i'm not mad
<gq> holy shit
<gq> i am very calm IRL.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> …
<gq> you can tell because i'm not screaming and swearing at you in channel.
<gq> excepting 'holy shit'
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I don't know, fucking *calling me a sociopath* to defend Eli, sure as hell parses as ‘angry at me.’
<gq> which was said out of surprise/frustration.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whatevs, back to irl socials.
<gq> well then redo your parses.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: talk later when the trolls are gone. ಠ_ಠ
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: anyway……… I think an order-dep prefix is a lot more consistent & less intrusive. and, sure.
<gq> I'm not a troll. I don't even /read/ homestuck, jesus christ.
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<gq> devyn: please calm him down, i gotta go take an ativan before i seize to death
<gq> :P
<devyn> <3 gq
<purr> Let it be known that devyn hearts gq.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: as in, use the same syntax for () and [], but prefix one?
<gq> <3 devyn
<purr> Let it be known that gq hearts devyn.
* ELLIOTTCABLE sighs
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gq: thanks.
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: no, get rid of ()
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gq: just, thanks.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: so @[] == ()
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: yep.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gotcha, bbl
<devyn> it totally works.
<gq> ELLIOTTCABLE: go get drunk or however you deal with feelings, just try not to roadtrip again, okay? call your sister and say i was a dick, just....take care of yourself
<gq> <3 elliottcable
<purr> Let it be known that gq hearts elliottcable.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> …
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and she acts as if I'm a totally unstable maniac who's going to go kill himself because she was kind of mean on an IRC channel?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ugh, it's so hard to deal with her. |=<
gq has joined #elliottcable
<devyn> was looking for Canada-based hosting, and I've found a VPS service that I'm seriously impressed with
<devyn> Cloud A
<devyn> they're openstack like rackspace
<devyn> but it's like, all new stuff
<gq> eligrey: i looked at that imgur you sent me. nvm all my hard words, you do important work!
<devyn> and hosted in Canada
* gq elevates eligrey to Coder in Residence of the chan
<eligrey> oh i assumed you already saw it and deleted it
<eligrey> at least you opened it before i deleted it
<gq> eligrey: yeah i just had itsitting open
<gq> :)
<eligrey> basically that's the reason for
<eligrey> -sephr
<purr> eligrey: sephr isn't a country and if he was a country his name isn't anguilla
<gq> cute
<gq> eligrey: so do you have recommendations for chans to join if i'm learning like 5 langs at once because all the 'standard' ones bore the shit out of me?
<eligrey> just being able to type http://ai and going to some website called Strong AI Case Study: eligrey bot would be awesome
<eligrey> gq: um learn haskell-based langs
<gq> eligrey: i know people here like to call me stupid but i don't make an effort in here because why the fuck would i? i just get discouraged by all the smart fuckers.
<gq> eligrey: okay! thanks for the recommendation
<eligrey> or learn javascript if you want to do web stuff
<eligrey> c# is also good but it's more mainstream
<gq> eligrey: i have the course open in codeacademy
<gq> or, java, i think
<gq> yeah it might be java
<eligrey> no dont learn java
<gq> i know this is like Super Newb
<eligrey> java will hurt
<gq> of me but i get java and javascript mixed up
<gq> they both need new names!
<gq> where is that quote on the ec tumblr quote chan
<eligrey> and you'll wake up feeling sick the next day if you learn java
<gq> it's like, if i ever make a language
<gq> it's gonna be called
<gq> YOU ALL SUCK
<gq> or something similarly immature
<gq> because seriously. brogrammer culture is so unproductive
<gq> "lol ur a girl? titpix lol send me a pic of u wif a shoe on your head"
<purr> lol
<gq> i shouldn't have to deal with a week of sexual harassment and bs
<gq> whereas if i was guy they'd just be like "oh, okay! you're interested? here's all our info, this is what we need, etc"
<eligrey> that's why i tell everyone i'm a guy
* gq shrugs
<purr> ¯\(º_o)/¯
<eligrey> and the reason there are zero pictures of me online
<gq> eligrey: if i found out you were a woman irl i might literally explode from squee.
<gq> eligrey: also uhhhh i have seriously considered becoming a male transsexual
<eligrey> ELLIOTTCABLE didn't know i was serious when he was talking about the Grey-Cable dynasty
<gq> eligrey: so my 'woman' status is not very stable.
<gq> eligrey: lollllll
<gq> eligrey: did he ragequit or is he still active here?
<gq> ...
<gq> also brb exploding from squee
<eligrey> no ELLIOTTCABLE isn't active in these parts
<gq> :p
<gq> oh
<eligrey> i haven't seen him in ages
<gq> 'ages' like more than an hour ago :P
<eligrey> i aged an entire hour
<gq> that's fair
<gq> last time i checked you were like
<gq> 14
<eligrey> might as well start the grave now
<gq> so hey
* gq digs a hole and labels it "for programmers trying to do srs work in #elliottcable
<gq> RIP, gone too soon, etc
<eligrey> brb
<gq> kk
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<devyn> gq: I don't think anyone's called you stupid in here specifically… we're happy for anyone to learn. just don't be surprised if you ask/say something very wrong and people are kind of a dick about that, because people are like that :p
<joelteon> wow
<joelteon> simple's notifications are INSTANT
<joelteon> i just renewed my car registration on the DMV website and simple showed the transaction 0.5s later
<devyn> well all of the infrastructure is there, I mean… the financial system needs to be able to operate very quickly
<joelteon> but it's the american financial system
<joelteon> also i'm not sure how the simple app gets notifications
<devyn> is simple an online bank?
<joelteon> yeah
<devyn> well, yeah, exactly; the website has to contact them to approve the transaction directly
<devyn> so they know
<joelteon> so what, does the app have an always-open tcp connection
<devyn> and then they can just push that out to the app through their internal infrastructure
<devyn> well, Apple and Google have notification infrastructure that they provide I think
<devyn> and it's pretty instant
<joelteon> that's cool
<devyn> also, completely free, apparently
<gq> devyn: no, mostly you guys are like that
<gq> devyn: good teachers are kind about beginner mistakes
<gq> but i have a bad reputation in this channel and deserve any and all dickishness, i know.
* gq sighs
<gq> sorry, i'm sensitive
<gq> the aforementioned suicide attempt.
<gq> :/
<gq> my scabs hurt.
* gq numb
<gq> taking meds for the night
<devyn> gq: there's a difference between teachers and just regular people who aren't really interested in teaching you
<devyn> not everyone *is* a good teacher
<devyn> and there's nothing wrong with that, I think; sure, they might be rude about correcting you but that doesn't mean they're not happy you're learning
<devyn> there's a difference between that and actually wanting to teach you quite directly, which not everyone does
<devyn> gq: also, bad reputation, pff… we all have some kind of reputation of some sort here, and none of them are really objectively good haha
<devyn> (if you can even define such a thing, which you can't)
<devyn> your presence is appreciated
<gq> devyn: by you, if not by my...ex.
<gq> i hesitate to call him by name lest the 'bawwww' begin
<gq> >.<
<devyn> gq: <3
<gq> devyn: <3333
<ELLIOTTCABLE> joelteon: omfg, I love Simple so much.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> joelteon: I use it to know if my waiter is being slow :D
<joelteon> nice
<ELLIOTTCABLE> joelteon: … do you not know how push notifications work? :x
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gq: I did appreciate you. Right up until you went batshit again and started insulting me, this evening. /=
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hell, that's not even true. I still appreciate you *now*.
<gq> a) i'm in the middle of a mixed episode
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it just hurt *more* that you pulled that, because I was starting to be excited about being friends with you again
<joelteon> ELLIOTTCABLE: no
<ELLIOTTCABLE> after talking with you while I was in montana.
<gq> b) if you cannot agree that you are empathy-deficient, then you really are stupid
<gq> c) i do not care about your whining
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I don't.
gq has left #elliottcable ["bye"]
* ELLIOTTCABLE shrugs
<purr> ¯\(º_o)/¯
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so much fuck that shit.
<joelteon> how do push notifications work
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: hi, I'm around (clearly)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> a little distracted trying to Blender, but, yeah.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> joelteon: basically the vendors of various devices work with the carriers to maintain a single (or effectively single) always-open connection, as you mentioned, to each device they sell,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and then offer free services to developers to push crap down that connection of a specific, very-constrained form.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> usually, there's some tight integration between that tunnel and the O.S.;
<ELLIOTTCABLE> for instance push notifications that show up in the OS can then feed some information to apps when later interacted with, or can invoke a change of state in the OS itself in some cases (moreso with Android than iOS)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but crucially, apps themselves have don't really have much in the way of access to that tunnel.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> It's *exclusively* for data in aformentioned constrained form, and *exclusively* for things that are directly shown to, and interacted with, by the user.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ugh blender how even
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so confus
<joelteon> ok
<joelteon> neat
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I mean, I'm fairly down with big complex apps; I used to be a FCP guru, long before I was very good with computers … and I took a few courses on CAD, way back when,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but for some reason this is just boggling me
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ugh can't relax.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> shit with gqbrielle has me all tense and upset, which it really shouldn't. It's not like it's the first fucking time.
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<Cheery> designed a format
<Cheery> PNG-style header
<Cheery> then there's stream of nodes
<Cheery> 4-byte ID, 3-byte data length, 6-bit label length, 2-bit type, label, data
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<gq> -gqbrielle
<purr> gq: she is not devyn (I think.)
<gq> -vil
<purr> gq: the one who wears rugs.
<gq> hee
<gq> hi vil :)
<vil> hey gq!
<gq> how's yourself?
<vil> pretty good, getting moved in up at school
<vil> how about you?
<gq> i'm moving out soon
<gq> we found a cheap apartment
<gq> d's registered for school
<vil> nice!
<gq> i tried to kill myself eysterday morning but oh well
<gq> i am LOOKING FORWARD.
<gq> x.x
<vil> yikes
<gq> i am really, truly not saying that in an effort for a pity grab
<vil> but yes, forward is good!
<gq> i just...am acting a bit erratic lately so people seem concerned
<gq> i'm ahving a mixed episode; the meds are helping a little
<gq> and i can't eac today until after my doc appt
* vil hugs gq
<gq> *can't eat
* gq hugs vil
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<Cheery> bought an apple tree
<gq> really? we have two next to the house
<gq> where will you put it, Cheery?
<Cheery> probably couple meters off from a decorative apple tree and redcurrant bushes
<gq> nice
<Cheery> it's very moist ground, so I remove only a small layer of ground, and plant the thing high.
<Cheery> the decorative tree seemed to enjoy same config.
<gq> cool!
<gq> we live in a desert-type climate
<gq> so i assume the apple tree was built a-purpose
<gq> the land is really old, i've found buried farm tools
<gq> we have a well and pump all our own water
<gq> there's some type of natural aquifer
<gq> have to filter it like 3x to make it safe for drinking
<gq> but the plants love it and so do we
<Cheery> here in where I live, there's probably been no-one living before my family.
<gq> i suspect this is ancient Spokane land
<gq> :/
<gq> nothing i can do about that though
<gq> as the eldest if they leave it to me i'll turn it into a volunteer daycare or something else
<gq> it's seen too much pain.
<Cheery> anyway. going to plant the plant.
<gq> kk
<Cheery> probably not coding today :)
<Cheery> I have few more other plants too.
<gq> i can only deal with tough plants that find water themselves
<gq> my mental issues make it difficult to do daily chores
<gq> i've had a little cactus for a few years now
<gq> he's doing great!
<vil> I've killed every plant I've ever tried to take care of
<vil> very nearly including the one in my avatar, but my mom saved it
<gq> vil: i once grew sunflowers the size of my face
<gq> i tried to put them outside
<gq> the deer literally bit the heads off
<gq> and spat them out
<gq> ;~;
<vil> awww
<gq> i was like, 12, lol
<gq> i think i cried about that haha
<vil> we had giant sunflower next to our garage one year, they were almost the height of the garage
<vil> but some bug started to eat the seeds after that year
<gq> they were a mini variety
<gq> i got them as a gift
<gq> grew them on my windowsill
<gq> they were really hardy, i would forget to water them but they always stayed alive
<gq> the bloody geraniums we got for free from the plant store? different story
<vil> hehe
<gq> i think that thing managed blossoms maybe 5 times
<gq> in all the years i had it.
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<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: another thing is that routines will, I think, have to explicitly accept arguments at defined points. perhaps `infrastructure execution pop[]` or something
<devyn> the old `unstage[]` method is no longer applicable as there's no longer just one hole to fill in a routine at any given time; [] refers to the hole within the current statement
<devyn> ideally, ELLIOTTCABLE, I want this to behave as similarly to Paws as possible, with the Tires-y goodness as a kind of extension
<devyn> responsibility will of course still be a thing, but again, it will be statement-delaying instead of entire-Execution-delaying
<devyn> so essentially I think Executions now just become graph containers (statement groups)
<devyn> and the statements individually are the linear components
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<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: also haven't exactly defined the behavior of [a b; c d]: I believe it should return only the value of `c d`, but should it wait for `a b` as well? I think it has to, because `&[a b] [c d]` doesn't execute them in parallel; it orders. I suppose `&[a b; foo: c d] #foo` may work?
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: btw @ → & because I think it looks better
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<Cheery> back from planting
<Cheery> slight insanity to bring up so many plants at once
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<joelteon> hey, is anyone here good at networking
<Cheery> joelteon: social networking or stuff like sockets?
<joelteon> sockets
<joelteon> specifically configuring ipv6
<Cheery> haven't studied that subject.
<joelteon> great
<eligrey> joelteon: yeah i can check enable ipv6 on my router
<eligrey> if that counts
<joelteon> ok
<joelteon> what if it doesn't
<eligrey> probably an issue with your modem/isp if your router and clients are all ipv6 capable
<joelteon> router is ipv6 capable but doesn't give me an address over dhcpv6, the only officially supported way on this network is to install a third-party dhcp client
<joelteon> i don't really want to install a third-party dhcp client
<eligrey> no idea then
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