<ELLIOTTCABLE>
VanguardVivian: expand on the wig-taking-off-scene thing? What's wrong with that? (also, what's being discussed?)
<VanguardVivian>
ELLIOTTCABLE: Discussing "The Danish Girl." Just prior to The Surgery™, she takes her wig off and gets misgendered again. That whole visual just reeks of reinforcing that she was still really a man before The Surgery™
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
i.e. they'd been characterizing her as increasingly female-presenting over time, but then intentionally reverted the development?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
feminine*
<VanguardVivian>
No, they misgender her consistently before The Surgery™ and only begin to increasingly refer to her as "she" afterward
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
As in, other characters? or do you mean some sort of supposedly-reliable narrator?
<VanguardVivian>
The wig thing is also symbolic because AMAB people who wear "women's" wigs and fake breasts are typically drag queens, not trans women, so cis people's conviction that trans women use them, too, shows a conflation of actual identity with mere performance art.
<VanguardVivian>
Other characters
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(is this worth a watch? I don't think I've heard of it)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(overall, I mean)
<VanguardVivian>
Nope. Don't watch it unless you're pirating it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
k
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
tyty lol
<purr>
lol
<VanguardVivian>
And definitely don't show it to a trans friend without warning them and making absolutely sure they're cool
<VanguardVivian>
Like, I'm still actively growing my hair out, and my estrogen and progesterone continue to make my breasts grow naturally. I don't wear wigs or use fake boobs. That's the norm if you're trans.
* ELLIOTTCABLE
nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'd assumed that was much of it, but wasn't sure if I'd assumed right.
<jfhbrook>
wig scene?
<jfhbrook>
from what?
<jfhbrook>
oh, "The Danish Girl" is a movie?
<gkatsev>
yes
<gkatsev>
also, a book
<jfhbrook>
what is AMAB
<gkatsev>
assigned male at birth, it seems
<jfhbrook>
yeah okay makes sense
<thealphanerd>
OH HAI
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<eligrey>
ELLIOTTCABLE: are you on
<eligrey>
i want to ask you about one of your goodreads reviews
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
thealphanerd: HAI
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
eligrey: wasn't then. am now.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
morning all
<pikajude>
hi
<purr>
pikajude: hi!
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glitch-hat: see, when you said ‘glitch-hat,’
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glitch-hat: I thought you meant glitch^
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-hat @ glitch-hat
<purr>
glitch-hat: When in #ELLIOTTCABLE, laugh as the #ELLIOTTCABL…er…IANS. hat-hat-hat.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh, what
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-find ha
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: HA! MADE YOU LOOK SUCKAH!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-factoid hat
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: Popularity: 3, last changed by: ELLIOTTCABLE, 470ſ 367mſ ago
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-^
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: Put on your hat!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
there we go
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glitch-hat: -^
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-^ @ glitch-hat
<purr>
glitch-hat: Put on your hat!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
BOT COME ON
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
there we go
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
grr.
ELLIOTTCABLE is now known as ec^
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<ec^>
yep definitely talking to msyelf
<ec^>
it's a channel named #ELLIOTTCABLE where ELLIOTTCABLE talks to ELLIOTTCABLE
<ec^>
coo'
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<inimino>
sometimes other people stop by to watch
<ec^>
inimino: aw, I love you
<ec^>
inimino: still in China? or is it Hong Kong?
<inimino>
China
<inimino>
I'd send you pictures but I'm not very good with these things, you know.
<ec^>
inimino: how are you not good with these things? :P
<ec^>
inimino: what are you, seventy?
<ec^>
I'm weirdly in love with the idea that you can disambiguate a space-seperated string with commas
<ec^>
a :foo :bar :baz b :widget c :qux :quux :corge
<ec^>
can be reduced to a `foo, bar, baz b :widget c qux, quux, corge` without losing information
<ec^>
er, `a foo, *
<ec^>
idk why this fascinates me, it's super-obvious
<inimino>
heh
<inimino>
basically all of my photos are either somewhere in the cloud or somewhere on some device somewhere somewhere around me who knows where
<purr\Paws>
Paws.c/Master a5216fb ELLIOTTCABLE: (new doc legal) Release under the ISC license
<ec^>
glitch-hat: Twitter is disabled while I'm working
<ec^>
glitch-hat: but, idk, it was just an idle observation that a lot of my Real Friendships have some seriously awkward back-and-forth argument, weird jealousies, frantic attempts to protect one or the other party's feelings in weird ways that feel abnormal or unnecessary in a Normal Person's life ...
<ec^>
the close relationships I have this year just don't feel healthy, in a way that I remember my interpersonal relationships growing to be over the last decade or so up until this year
<ec^>
idk what's gone wrong, but the only common denominator is *me*. Several unrelated friendships (and recent romantic relationships) have just been ... stressful, unhealthy-feeling, difficult ... *very-almost*-not-worth-it feeling.
<glitch-hat>
hmm, I think my current IRC setup isn't working as I'm going to miss messages when I'm not online (I usually use IRC in a different way, dipping in and out). maybe I should go back to IRCCloud...
glitch-hat is now known as glitch^
<glitch^>
ec^: you're right, I wasn't replying to that tweet, but what you say is interesting
<glitch^>
do you have a therapist?
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<ec^>
wh
<ec^>
what
<ec^>
glitch^: did briefly, but the drive was too much. Need a new one. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<ec^>
Haven't had any good experiences with therapy, lol. Have a lot of people I care a lot about who have had v. good experiences with therapists, but I have a lot of v bad experiences from my youth, and am not in a rush to try again
<purr>
lol
<glitch^>
yeah, it's hard to find a good fit. and in the UK most of the NHS ones are shit so you have to pay a lot to get a good one
<glitch^>
I was lucky to find an awesome one in Oxford but like you, I'm a bit too far away now
<glitch^>
so I'm going to ask him to recommend someone in London. you could do the same?
<glitch^>
oh I didn't read your message properly
<glitch^>
you've never found a good one
<glitch^>
that sucks
<purr__>
[elliottcable] testing
<ec^>
oh that's ugly af
<ec^>
it comes through as purr? why don't they just have an army of connections that /nick and send-from-out-of-channel ಠ_ಠ
<ec^>
glitch^: the recent guy from my ‘I'm going to find a therapist and build a relationship!’ kick wasn't *bad*, he just wasn't *good*, either.
<ec^>
I have a really hard time opening up when I feel manipulated; and it's really hard, for obvious reasons, to not feel manipulated when going to somebody and paying them money to manipulate you :P
<glitch^>
interesting, I don't see the therapeutic relationship like that, but I think I had a very unusual relationship with my therapist
<ec^>
I think I need somebody 1. *extremely* charismatic, and 2. absopositilutely smarter than me. Like, by a lot. Somebody whose wisdom and intelligence obviously and clearly (to me) outstrip mine. or, I dunno, something like that.
<glitch^>
when I started with Michael I had no expectations and was simply going because my parents made me. I knew that what I needed in my particular case was specific meds and to wait for them to work
<glitch^>
so when he asked me what I wanted out of our sessions I just said I wanted to understand myself
<glitch^>
if you go in with that aim and you have someone who understands you, you can do a lot
<ec^>
Yeah, I've had way *worse* experiences with prescribing doctors (over here we call that a psychiatrist, and a non-prescribing one a psychologist, I believe?)
<ec^>
they always shove drugs I absolutely do not want anything to do with at me, instead of trying to understand the things *I* see as my problems, I guess.
<ec^>
'murica.
<glitch^>
(yeah that's about our usage...)
<glitch^>
ha
<glitch^>
yeah my case was different because I knew I needed drugs and I pretty much knew which ones
<ec^>
I'm super, super, wildly, crazy uncompfortable with anything that affects my brain-chemistry
<glitch^>
but the therapist thing - if you find someone who understands you and you just sit with them in the knowledge of that understanding
<ec^>
I didn't start *drinking* until I was 22; and even then, I've been actually impaired-drunk maybe half a dozn times ever. That shit just, skeeves me out Hard™.
<glitch^>
like, we didn't even speak for minutes at a time
<glitch^>
I see
<glitch^>
I'm... quite the opposite with anything brain-altering...
<glitch^>
that's a conversation for outside IRC
<ec^>
lol yes
<purr>
lol
<glitch^>
but yeah, find a therapist, talk to them enough for them to understand you, then just sit and stare at each other
<ec^>
I noticed a comment earlier, declined to comment
<glitch^>
:)
<ec^>
FYI, drugs and drug-related things are nigh-triggering for me, so that's one of the only things truly banned in this room.
<glitch^>
ah shit, sorry if I said something before
<ec^>
it's okay! you wouldn't have known anyway, lol
<glitch^>
anything else you'd rather I didn't touch on? I'm aware we barely know each other yet!
<ec^>
nope! you're cool! there's a CoC being put together, and I'll probably include a list of soft-rules for this channel about things that aren't really appropriate here
<glitch^>
cool
<ec^>
I'm sure drugs will end up on there alongside meta-discussion of SJW shit (so, care-trolling) and a couple topics I know friends of mine to be triggered by
<ec^>
but until the: can't be wrong if you don't know better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<purr__>
[elliottcable] wtf just heard my name in a Porter Robinson song
<ec^>
oh ugh goddamnit
<ec^>
1 x Giant Rat (mm 327, cr 1/8); 25 xp
<ec^>
1 x Lurking Bigot (mm ???, cr 0); 50 xp
<ec^>
2 x Shrieker (mm 138, cr 0); 20 xp
<ec^>
ahhah this entertains me.
<glitch^>
hahah, nice
<ec^>
oh!
<ec^>
omg!
<ec^>
-^ @ glitch^
<purr>
glitch^: Put on your hat!
<ec^>
didn't notice
<ec^>
very proud
<ec^>
such ##Hat-ism
<glitch^>
^^
<ec^>
many hat
<ec^>
irccloud has some very strange ⌃O behaviour
<ec^>
it … adds a blank line? wtf.
<ec^>
does anybody know what ‘stimming’ is?
<glitch^>
yeah
<glitch^>
so autistic and other neuroatypical people describe it as repeated movements used as self-soothing mainly
<glitch^>
as a Practically Autistic(tm) (verified by dodgy edpsych at age 8) person I can give examples from my own life of flapping and rocking
<glitch^>
I think everyone including neurotypicals do it to some degree but in many autistic people it's very noticeable and can lead to significant social stigma
<ec^>
hmmmm okay
<ec^>
because I was linked this http://www.stimtastic.co and was trying to figure out the context
<glitch^>
omg I love those toys
<glitch^>
but yeah, they're using stimming as a way to describe fiddling with the things they sell basically
* ec^
nods
<glitch^>
they could market them to anyone who fidgets though as those things are fun
<ec^>
glitch^: one of my dogs is named Macs and a friend has a dog named Spacedog
<ec^>
well, they call them Spacedog all the time, rather
<ec^>
so … Spacemacs keeps tripping me up.
<ec^>
also, visualizing my dog with space-helmet, which is even better
<glitch^>
well if they ever have a pup together
<glitch^>
you know what to call it
<ec^>
~pup~
<glitch^>
whenever I say that it reminds me of @aphyr
<ec^>
yessss that is precisly what I was thinking
<ec^>
see I'd pay money to get him in here. his work is, o-o
<glitch^>
I have to admire him from afar because following him spammed my timeline with gay porn
<glitch^>
but yes
<glitch^>
(since I started browsing twitter at work I've had to cleanse my follows a bit...)
<ec^>
ableism is so fucking difficult
<ec^>
what's wrong with gay porn? :D
<ec^>
maybe you *don't* want to be in this room ...
<glitch^>
heh
<ec^>
kidding. mostly. (the welcome-back penises expired.)
<glitch^>
believe me, I'm perfectly happy with it
<ec^>
(stupid youtube.)
<glitch^>
not the penises, the gay bit
<glitch^>
it's complicated
<glitch^>
(I'm gay and female)
<ec^>
oh no I get it, I'm mostly poking fun
<ec^>
acknowledged
<ec^>
we'll just pretend that I'm putting that in the pronouns-announcing part of purr that I haven't written yet ...
* ec^
mimes activating purr
* purr
rrr
<glitch^>
purr: hi
<purr>
glitch^: hi!
<ec^>
funnily enough purr already has a bunch of pronoun-related code; but only for *herself*
<glitch^>
I love coding pronouns and plurals and shit
<glitch^>
I think I'm the only programmer I know who does
* ec^
laughs
<ec^>
I'd rather farm things like that out to a library.
<ec^>
have you seen alex?
<ec^>
(not the same thing, but mildly relevant.)
<alynn>
yes, he's over there -->
<ec^>
-g alexjs @ glitch^
<purr>
glitch^: Alex - Catch insensitive, inconsiderate writing <http://alexjs.com/>
<ec^>
oh shush alynn
<ec^>
also hi alynn
<ec^>
but shush alynn
<alynn>
k
<ec^>
but also hi alynn
<ec^>
-hi @ alynn
<purr>
alynn: HELLO
<alynn>
<mmf>
<ec^>
HELLO alynn
<ec^>
something smells like tuna, I want some
<alynn>
INIT-ACK?
<glitch^>
yeah, my thoughts on alex would probably breach this channel's CoC though...
<ec^>
-ack @ alynn
<ec^>
glitch^: interesting.
<alynn>
this channel has a CoC?
<ec^>
glitch^: feel free to privmsg me, because I just started using it/him, and I'm pretty happy w/ it
<ec^>
alynn: as of v. recently, yes. Is a recent project, lol.
<purr>
lol
<ec^>
alynn: were you not around a week ago when it was the primary topic of discussion for a couple days?
<ec^>
or, idk, a few days ago. I'm Bad At Time™.
<alynn>
seems a bit redundant in a channel with an absolute dictator
<alynn>
I was not!
<glitch^>
lol
<ec^>
Perhaps I'll call it a Code of Don't Piss Elliott Off or Hurt People He Likes.markdown
<glitch^>
sounds sensible
<ec^>
but no, it's more an experiment with codifying (hahaha pun intended) the development of my own theories on community-building
<glitch^>
my own Slack channel could do with one of those
<ec^>
amongst other things, I theorize that PLT communities are the source of *huge swathes* of the behaviour of other parts of programming's social environment
<alynn>
icic
<ec^>
the behaviour of PLT communities informs the behaviour of young languages' communities … which influences the behaviour of those languages much-larger communities when they're older … which directly shapes all the micro-communities that form within a given language/framework's userbase
<ec^>
as in ‘The people influencing Yukihiro were the most influential people in the experience of a newcomer to Rails nowadays’, basically.
<purr\GH>
Solcounter.menu/Master 3643798 ELLIOTTCABLE: (- new doc) Add Shields.io badges
<ec^>
glitch^: programming-language theory. This room originated to discuss my own programming-language work, and when it turned out that my programming language was terrible in every way, it became nominally a place to talk about proglang-design, compiler theory, and related topics
<ec^>
(most of the regulars who had pet languages stopped working on them a while back, and it's kind of reverted back to a undirected social channel, for right now, tho. Still, PLT is my passion, and something I encourage, so, nominally ...)
<glitch^>
oh awesome
<ec^>
alynn: it's been a long time. How's life?
<ec^>
alynn: are you still at the same institution as danpalmer, or did you complete your residency or whatever?
<ec^>
also I'm very vaguely curious what you chose as your thesis work; I seem to remember at one point you were looking for a project
<alynn>
depending on your definition of institution
<alynn>
I graduated last year
<ec^>
I consider failing to talk you into studying Paws as one of my great failings in life. :P
<alynn>
last calendar year anyway
<alynn>
I now work at the same company as danpalmer
<alynn>
(and, briefly, as cloudhead)
<ec^>
what lmao
<alynn>
my thesis was on avoiding transient invariant violations in FRP
<ec^>
is that the one whitequark was courting for a bit?
<ec^>
what's a transient invariant
<alynn>
when invariants are violated, transiently
<ec^>
and what level of education was that; are you now a doctorate-holder?
<ec^>
do I get to call you Doctor Lynn? :D
<alynn>
lolno
<purr>
lolno
<ec^>
bah
<ec^>
disappointed.
<alynn>
a bachelor's degree ;)
<ec^>
you had a thesis for a bachelor's? o_O
<ec^>
Maybe they don't do that over this side of the pond? or I'm just very misinformed.
<alynn>
British universities :)
<ec^>
which is possible. I've failed out of failing out of college.
<alynn>
the terminology varies, it wasn't called a thesis when I did it