<mark4>
you could port github.com/mark4th/t4 to it
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<TangentDelta>
Thumb-2
<TangentDelta>
I'm still not sure what I want to run on it for the purposes of my experiment.
<TangentDelta>
Been leaning towards Forth
<mark4>
well t4 is a sub threaded thumb 2 forth :)
<mark4>
its for linux but you could ezpz make it stand alone
<TangentDelta>
I want a multicomputing platform on the cheap to play with. The SAM D21 is perfect because it has 4 serial ports.
<TangentDelta>
I've been playing around with Transputer stuff but it's just too expensive to play with the parallel-computing and graph theory concepts with :(
<tabemann>
my zeptoforth is thumb-2 but is aimed at cortex-m MCU's rather than linux
<tabemann>
and it's SRT/NCI
<KipIngram>
TangentDelta: I bought a little Cortex M4 thumb drive a year or two ago (just in time for my employer to defeat USB writing, so I can't use it any more).
<KipIngram>
It had a nice amount of RAM and flash - my plan was to do a Forth OS for it that would provide a working environment sort of like Gnu Screen.
<KipIngram>
Just plug it in anywhere and work with it
<KipIngram>
It was cheap - I can't remember the name of it right now, but whenn I do I'll tell you. Send you a link if I can find it.
<KipIngram>
Those SAM processors are pretty cool - I've looked at them in the past.
<KipIngram>
Never did anything with them, though.
<KipIngram>
If we're talking about the same SAM.
<TangentDelta>
Atmel used to make SAM but it's Microchip now.
<mark4>
hell bent on overthrowing our government and destroying the republic through anarchy
<KipIngram>
I think there are quite a few such organizations these days.
<mark4>
yes
<KipIngram>
I think a relatively small number of people drive them that way, and there just seems to be an unlimited supply of gullible people contributinng their numbers without kicking the tires.
<mark4>
george soros
<KipIngram>
Yes. For example.
<mark4>
but tbh i dont worry about it
<KipIngram>
There's not a lot of point.
<KipIngram>
If I were suddenly presented with an opportunity to actually do something good that might have a real effect, I'd do it.
<KipIngram>
But I'm generally not, so I do my work and raise my family and try to enjoy life.
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<KipIngram>
I don't really follow xkcd; never have. I just ran across that one in a stackexchange answer and thought it was cute, and fit into our recent discussion of Lisp.
<mark4>
satan does his works but its alwaus to gods purpose
<mark4>
i dont hate xkcd :)
<mark4>
but obviously he is a socialist tree hugger or scared of the anarchists
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<cmtptr>
i hate xkcd
<cmtptr>
it is sappy and i hate it
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<mark4>
user-friendly was good at one time
<tabemann>
saying that BLM is a terrorist organization really sets a low bar for what counts as "terrorism"
<tabemann>
by that standard the protestors in hong kong are "terrorists"
<mark4>
the protestors in hong kong are burning things to the ground and looting?
<mark4>
and destroying historical monuments?
<tabemann>
the thing is that when you have very large numbers of protestors, there will always be some doing such things, and they stick out because they make news, even though in reality they are a minority
<tabemann>
whereas when police beat the shit out of protestors because they can, it is generally overlooked
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<mark4>
blm are funded by george soros
<tabemann>
about those "historical momuments", they are monuments to traitors who should have never been so honored
<mark4>
and its not a few doing it
<mark4>
its ALL of them
<tabemann>
all is a major exaggeration
<tabemann>
and "george soros" is a conspiracy theory
<tabemann>
next thing I will hear is that BLM is really funded by the bavarian illuminati
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* tabemann
has long heard of george soros being a mastermind behind everything supposedly left-wing or subversive
<tabemann>
anyways, it's getting late here, and I haven't yet figured out how to get PLL working on the L4, so I'm going to bed
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<veltas>
You can't call BLM terrorists, they're simply not that. Discussion about whether they or people they associate with happen to riot or do violence is another matter.
<veltas>
Everyone has such a black & white opinion on what these political words mean, but they used to have a lot of nuance
<veltas>
You've had years of people trying to paint the other ideology as one, and trying to deny they share ideology with the other, and the arguments for both are so bad that the words have become almost meaningless compared to what they used to mean/imply
<veltas>
mark4: I like XKCD, the humour is definitely up my street. But I did stop reading for a while because too many of the comics started being preachy and ideological
<veltas>
tabemann: I think originally the George Soros finger-wagging was just meant to mock 'leftists' that were against capitalism but were being funded by powerful billionaires, enabling a handful of people to 'choose' political momentum with their cash. I think people like Alex Jones but just generally the loud idiotic portion of the right turned it into weird conspiracy cult nonsense.
<nihilazo>
the george soros thing is a conspiracy theory
<veltas>
I was reading XKCD the other day and quite enjoying it
<nihilazo>
xkcd is funny
<veltas>
nihilazo: Did you read what I said?
<nihilazo>
yeah
<nihilazo>
I know
* nihilazo
is a leftist and really wishes he was being funded by billionaires tbh
<nihilazo>
lol
<veltas>
George Soros funding stuff is not a "conspiracy theory", he actually does that and talks publicly about it.
<nihilazo>
instead we're funded by nothing and actually a lot of us are literally homeless
<veltas>
Just because you haven't received a check doesn't mean he's not doing it
<nihilazo>
I mean he funds some more progressive social things but it's not like radical leftists or whatever
<veltas>
Okay so what I was saying is the argument directed at them
<veltas>
I don't like the argument because I think it's very ad hominey, just trying to explain that there was a nugget of relevance in there before it got turned into idiocy
<nihilazo>
yeah
<veltas>
Writing it all off is like me saying "I don't get funded by the Koch family" in response to "Koch family funded some activism, these handful of people have huge influence and should be held to account for their mass manipulation"
<veltas>
activism or whatever they do
<veltas>
Not that I'm an activist, I'm quite happily not
<nihilazo>
I probably would be if I was able, but I live in the middle of nowhere
<nihilazo>
there's not much point protesting something out where I live because nobody will see you lol
<veltas>
I personally think the west would be better off if more young people were trying to change the world through constructive work rather than complaining about everything
<veltas>
I'm not inherently against protest I just think there are too many people getting involved in politics and not enough just trying to improve the lives of the people around them, or improve themselves etc
<nihilazo>
the two can be one and the same :D A lot of the groups I know who protest are also groups doing community work and mutual aid
<veltas>
Actually protestors do their thing, but really I'm talking about the people just complain on Twitter and Discord all day
<veltas>
Or just generally sit on social media and get in arguments or circle jerk constantly
<nihilazo>
twitter people are the worst
<veltas>
These people all are chasing the rush of "doing something" but actually contribute nothing
<veltas>
And they're the overwhelming majority
<nihilazo>
yeah, sadly
<veltas>
The people the turn up to a protest or "organisation" are probably like the top percentile
<nihilazo>
although I think a lot of them would likely do something outside of covid
<veltas>
Nah it's always like this
<nihilazo>
like, I think I currently count as one of them given how I just talk on masto about politics a lot and don't get out there and do stuff
<nihilazo>
but I'd be getting out there and doing stuff if I could
<nihilazo>
but covid, and living in the middle of nowhere
<veltas>
Be the change you want to see
<veltas>
I do have kind of an anarchistic or more locally-oriented opinion, I just think people should focus on being positive members of their community first and foremost
<veltas>
And for some people that means being a good parent and working hard at their job
<veltas>
And for some it can mean volunteering occasionally
<veltas>
Being pleasant and not disturbing people while outside
<veltas>
Offering help to people that need it
<veltas>
All that stuff is more constructive than a lifetime of 'masto'
<veltas>
Basically look inwards before you look outwards
<veltas>
I'll stop now because I'm preaching :P
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<veltas>
Does anyone have any programs that they tend to write when learning a new language?
<f-a>
I always pick some from rosetta stone at first
<f-a>
then a small game
<proteusguy>
veltas, I have small little things I make depending on my goals. First is almost always a recursive fib function. Then something that has a structure that gets used a lot but needs to maintain its integrity. This then sets you up for more advanced language features that, again, depend a lot on your goals.
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<proteusguy>
At that point it's really all about what kind of extension (to the language) capabilities I want the developers to have.
<proteusguy>
So it might be something more functional like dijkstra's algorithm or something that pushes the type of concurrency model I want to explore.
<proteusguy>
For ActorForth I have a full (aspirational) implementation of a smart contract state machine model that hopefully is quite powerful and enforced by my type system. It's no where close to ready to compile it but having such a thing keeps me on target as I implement the system.
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<veltas>
Nice
<veltas>
I tend to re-write shorter programs I've written in the past that I've found useful
<veltas>
Some of them are more common early programming tasks like a brainfuck compiler/interpreter
<siraben>
veltas: an interpreter for lambda calculus is always a good exercise
<siraben>
If the language is functional I almost always implement an interpreter, if it's imperative, well greatly depends
<siraben>
*is functional/has functional features, in Rust's case it's the strong polymorphic type system, ADTs and pattern matching.
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<proteusguy>
siraben, an interpreter for lambda calculus also puts your language into a lambda calculus computational model. If that's not what you're going for then you've made a big mistake. ;-)
<proteusguy>
Making compilers/interpreters makes a lot of sense, of course, especially if your desire is to make DSLs from your language.
<siraben>
proteusguy: I believe the question by veltas was what small programs people write in new languages
<siraben>
So naturally it differs from person to person
<proteusguy>
veltas, that smart contract state machine is actually a reformation of one that I wrote before in Vyper and how I wish I could write it in a new language. So kinda doing what you described.
<proteusguy>
siraben, yes - was just pointing out the presumption in selecting that option. That's less of a practical application than it is an entire design philosophy to guide the language itself.
<siraben>
Hm.
<siraben>
veltas: compiling what language to brainfuck? that sounds fun
<nihilazo>
I've been learning about lower level and hardware stuff recently and I've been feeling like building a brainfuck-native CPU
<nihilazo>
just because. Although somebody has likely already done it
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<nihilazo>
from my very limited knowledge of hardware it shouldn't be too difficult
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<siraben>
I believe someone has already, or an FGPA approximation
<siraben>
I wonder what brainfuck's spec says, IIRC there's undefined behavior like what happens when you increment past 256 or go back one cell before 0
<siraben>
interpreters differ in implementation]
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<nihilazo>
yeah, a lot of stuff is undefined
<nihilazo>
cell size is undefined iirc
<nihilazo>
if the tape is actually meant to be infinite is undefined, as the original implementation had 30,000 cells
<nihilazo>
maybe I'll build a brainfuck CPU in minecraft
<nihilazo>
because I was going to build a computer in minecraft anyway
<siraben>
haha
<siraben>
state of the art in minecraft is using minecraft functions, before that it was command blocks for 1 op/game tick computation
<nihilazo>
yeah, but I want to build an old school minecraft computer
<nihilazo>
using redstone logic
<nihilazo>
1 op/tick is overrated, functions are cheating
<nihilazo>
both exist outside of the game world. A true minecraft computer has to exist in-universe
<nihilazo>
and an in-universe minecraft computer would have to be built with redstone logic
<siraben>
hehe right
<nihilazo>
well, I am planning to build a forth based HDL that compiles to .schematic or structureblock files
<nihilazo>
lol
<nihilazo>
but it's still an in-universe computer, just designed using out of universe tools
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<nihilazo>
I mean, then I can build an HDL that runs on the minecraft computer to design future minecraft computers I suppose
<siraben>
Right.
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<mark4>
Maxine Waters goes to Minnesota, calls for anti-police crowd to ‘get more confrontational’
<mark4>
sedition
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<KipIngram>
I've developed the habit of, whenever I find an interesting document online, saving that document and then knocking the document spec off the URL, to see if the site allows directory browsing. I've found a ton of really interesting materials that way.
<KipIngram>
We have had a LOT of sedition this last year or so, mark4.
<KipIngram>
I think the mayor of Seattle should be jailed. Her chief of police wanted to put a stop to the violence and illegal behavior there last year - she wouldn't allow it. At the very least that's a violationn of her oath of office and she should be removed from power. But I think it fringed into criminal behavior.
<KipIngram>
She betrayed the good people of Seattle.
<nihilazo>
best way to stop violence and illegal behavior is sending less cops
<mark4>
agreed
<KipIngram>
Now, to balance that remark, let me also say that the leadership of the police department that just wanted to sweep the George Floyd thingn under the rug were absolute idiots and also bad people. You can't have somethinng like that happen and just do NOTHING. What were they THINKING???
<mark4>
arm law abiding citizens
<KipIngram>
That's what set all of this crap off in the first place - their inaction.
<KipIngram>
^^ that.
<mark4>
a BLM terrorits comes to do me harm he might not live to regret it because I will defind myself if I feel im legitimately in danger
<nihilazo>
BLM aren't terrorists, what
<nihilazo>
how are BLM terrorists
<KipIngram>
That's a right that all freedom loving people should have. Do have, rather. It can be transgressed, but that doesn't mean you don't have it.
<KipIngram>
Some of them are, nihilazo.
<KipIngram>
Not all of them by any stretch.
<KipIngram>
There are ignorant people blindly supporting the badly motivated leadership.
* nihilazo
supports the black lives matter movement, thinks that there are a very small number of bad actors within the movement but they form a very tiny minority
<KipIngram>
The public message of BLM - there is nothing wrong with that and I agree with it.
<KipIngram>
But that's not the true motivation of the people holding the power.
<KipIngram>
I agree with that.
<KipIngram>
But that minority swings major power.
<mark4>
overthrow of the government is their goal and thereby the utter destruction of the republic
<KipIngram>
They are NOT suppressed by the majority.
<mark4>
to be replaced with their utopian socialist dictatorship
<KipIngram>
All you have to do is look at the behaviors.
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<KipIngram>
EVERY SINGLE TRADITION must be torn down and annihilated.
<KipIngram>
That is their goal.
<mark4>
thatas what pol pot tried
<KipIngram>
If it's old, and traditional, and a bedrock of our culture, it has to go. Period and end of story.
<KipIngram>
If it's something that people attach value to, it has to be destroyed.
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<KipIngram>
If you just pay attention, you will see that.
<nihilazo>
...that's not how this works
<KipIngram>
That's how we get things like Christmas songs attacked, university fight songs attacked, and so on.
<KipIngram>
Ridiculous behaviors like that.
* nihilazo
sighs
<nihilazo>
OK so
<KipIngram>
It's part of how it's working.
<KipIngram>
I DO NOT object to the legitimate behaviors. At all.
<nihilazo>
this shit is like, supported by a tiny minority of folks in the movement. A minority so small it's not worth counting
<KipIngram>
There was AMPLE ground for protests last year.
<KipIngram>
More than ample.
<nihilazo>
most folks just want equality under the law
<nihilazo>
and less racist policing
<nihilazo>
that's it
<KipIngram>
But that doesn't justfiy looting, and taking over downtown areas by force, and impeding people who are trying to go about their business.
<KipIngram>
Those are the parts that needed to be put down, HARD.
<nihilazo>
...which are all things that only happened at a tiny minority of protests
<mark4>
and destroying businesses and thereby peoples lives
<nihilazo>
like, the looting happened like...for two weeks in march?
<KipIngram>
Granted, but they were not stopped.
<KipIngram>
The mayor of Seattle deliberately prevented her chief of police from stopping them.
<nihilazo>
and these have been ongoing and continue to be ongoing for like over a year
<KipIngram>
This did not start out as a conversation about BLM in general.
<KipIngram>
At least not for me.
<KipIngram>
My comment was re: the mayor of Seattle and her failure to protect her law abiding citizens.
<KipIngram>
I agree with you that there was a need for parts of what happened.
<KipIngram>
I spoke explicitly about the George Floyd response - that was an incredible problem.
<KipIngram>
The official response, I mean.
<KipIngram>
But this has gone way, WAY beyond that.
<nihilazo>
it's taken this long for the officer to be put to trial
<nihilazo>
like, over a year before he went to trial for literal murder
<KipIngram>
It has spread to exactly what mark4 has noted: an attempt to destroy our entire culture.
<nihilazo>
it's fucked up
<KipIngram>
It IS.
<KipIngram>
There are huge, gaping problems with our urban police forces.
<nihilazo>
I don't see how BLM is destroying culture
<nihilazo>
tbh
<KipIngram>
I don't want to single out BLM.
<nihilazo>
tearing down statues is an inflammatory protest tactic, it doesn't erase any culture
<nihilazo>
no culture is lost
<KipIngram>
Just look at all the ridiculous stories that have shown up in the news, since this all started.
<nihilazo>
just some stone figure of a guy
<KipIngram>
If you focus on any ONE issue, that is so.
<KipIngram>
It just some one little thing.
<mark4>
so when germany looted and destroyed books and art no culture was lost
<mark4>
got it
<KipIngram>
But it's everywhere - it's pervasive.
<KipIngram>
It's coordinated.
<nihilazo>
mark4: are you saying that BLM is like the nazis? jesus christ that's an insane level of delusion
<KipIngram>
I don't fault BLM per se, or any of these things per se. But, behind the scenes some people with a LOT of money are using it all to do this damage.
<mark4>
yes i am
<nihilazo>
it's a series of unrelated civis rights protests
<KipIngram>
If you will just look around you'll see that's undeniable.
<nihilazo>
some are using bad tactics but the overall goal isn't fascism
<mark4>
they BOTH used anarchy to overthrow a sitting government
<nihilazo>
it's just stopping racism
<nihilazo>
there's no BLM plan to overthrow the government
<mark4>
its NOTHING to do with racism
<KipIngram>
I don't believe that.
<nihilazo>
idk where you're getting these insane ideas from
<KipIngram>
For the mass of them that's the goal.
<mark4>
the ones calling racism are the racists
<cmtptr>
hey
<KipIngram>
But for these well-funnded players I'm talking about destroyinng the culture IS the goal.
<cmtptr>
stop talking about racism and help me come up with a name
<KipIngram>
And we are so far off topic it's beyonnd belief.
<KipIngram>
Go, cmtptr.
<nihilazo>
if you actually speak to BLM protestors, it's a bunch of college kids who could never even organise well enough to go get a meal, let alone overthrow the government lol
<cmtptr>
no you can keep talking about racism just help me first
<KipIngram>
I'm listening.
<mark4>
nihilazo, the individual you talk to is NOT running the show
<nihilazo>
who is?
<KipIngram>
I said all I have to say about it - I won't go on about it all day.
<nihilazo>
explain
<mark4>
its the organizers of the ANTCHY and the money behind it (george soros for example) who are trying to destroy the republic
<nihilazo>
the ANTCHY? I have never heard of this
<mark4>
anarchy
<mark4>
cant type lol
<nihilazo>
there is no organisation that is anarchy
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, i'm building a tilemap. the model for walls is called wall-n, and then i build wall-w, wall-s, and wall-e by rotating it, right?
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, but then i need a different model for corners, so i called that wall-ne and rotated it four times
<KipIngram>
Summary: There are lots of pockets of racism in our society. In position of power. They need to be dealt with. But there are people using the situation to do damage. That needs to be stopped to. But they are HIDINNG BEHIND labels like BLM annd so on, and that makes it so most people wonn't even listenn to an attack againsnt them.
<KipIngram>
That is the problem.
<KipIngram>
Ok, cmtptr - reading.
<nihilazo>
anarchy is like, a vague political idea. Sure some folks in the BLM movement would call themselves anarchists, but they generally mean it in a different sense to how it's popularly understood
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, but it's just occurred to me that i need two corners - an inside corner and an outside corner. what should be the naming convention here??
<KipIngram>
Oh, hmmm. Let me think for a minute.
<KipIngram>
You will need inner and outer walls, too, right?
<KipIngram>
As well as corners?
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, i thought maybe wall-n, wall-nwi, and wall-nwo, but then i thought i could also be clever and make one of the corners -se, but which one would be -se, the inside corner or the outside corner?
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, no because an outside wall is just a wall-n rotated 180 degrees
<KipIngram>
Oh, ok. Ok, give me a minute.
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, i need to draw a picture
<mark4>
get 5000 people with flags and banners to march down pen ave to the whitehouse screamig their hearts out and NOT LOOTING and NOT BURNING and NOT DESTROYING... then that is a lawful protest
<mark4>
on any day of the week
<nihilazo>
the idea that george soros wants anarchy is patently ridiculous. The guy's a billionaire. In general, one thing anarchists aren't a fan of? Billionaries. lol
<KipIngram>
So, it's really REFLECTION that's giving you inner and outer.
<KipIngram>
Use rotation to rotate around; use reflection to go between inner and outer.
<KipIngram>
That fits the math of what's happening better.
<KipIngram>
So wall-ne rotated 180 is wall-sw.
<nihilazo>
also, like I said, basically no BLM protests were looting and burning and destroying. A few did, very early on, it stopped very quickly, and now when violence breaks out it's almost 100% initiated by cops
<KipIngram>
wall-ne-o reflected is wall-sw-i.
<KipIngram>
Make sense so far?
<nihilazo>
there is no better way to start violence than by shooting peaceful protestors with rubber bullets lol
<nihilazo>
it's the cops who start the riots
<nihilazo>
(you can see this if you look at any footage of any of these protests before the violence breaks out. It's always *after* the cops start trying to "control" the crowd)
<KipIngram>
mark4, nihilazo: There are wrong things going on on both sides here. nihilazo: if you try to completely limit the scope of this to racism only, then you are overlooking massive problems. mark4: there are pockets of racism in powerful places.
<nihilazo>
not denying that looting happened. But it was on literally one occasion out of a protest movement that is now over a year old
<nihilazo>
and across the country
<nihilazo>
and the world
<KipIngram>
This is just not a simple black and white situation (so sorry for the pun).
<KipIngram>
This is a complex sociopolitical situation, involving racism, anti-Americanism, and so on in a wicked mixture.
<mark4>
KipIngram, agreed but *MOST* of the racism i see is from black leftits
<KipIngram>
That's fair - you may be looking in the places where that's the case.
<mark4>
p.s. my room mate is black and i consider him my brother
<nihilazo>
I'm not denying that there are factions within the BLM movement that have more radical and problematic goals, but they're tiny groups. There is no coordination there really
<KipIngram>
I totally believe there is a lot of problem in our urban police organizations.
<KipIngram>
Brass that puts protecting their officers first and protecting the rights of minorities second.
<mark4>
nihilazo, those factions that are more radical are the ones in charge
<nihilazo>
"in charge" how
<KipIngram>
And they feel that way because they have seen the things that you are talking about.
<nihilazo>
this is a decentralised movement
<KipIngram>
They THINK they are doing what's right.
<nihilazo>
there is no person planning BLM
<mark4>
not all muslims are terrorists either
<KipIngram>
But they've lost sight of the big picture too.
<nihilazo>
there's an organisation that calls itself BLM but it doesn't have much to do with the actual on-the-ground action that goes on
<nihilazo>
and that organisation is overall not very radical, just calling for police reform
<nihilazo>
which is something I 100% support
<nihilazo>
and I think any reasonable person should, given how bad the policing situation is
<mark4>
nihilazo, i agree that the police in this country are out of control
<mark4>
they are no longer serve and protect they are control and collect
<KipIngram>
You can't look at someone who calls themselves BLM and automatically assume they are a bad person. But you also can't look at a cop and automatically assume he's a bad person. There are bad BLM people and bad cops, but it's best to try to give each individual person the benefit of the doubt until THEIR BEHAVIOR tells you who they are.
<mark4>
but that does NOT mean i shoot one or throw acid in his face when he pulls me over
<KipIngram>
cmtptr: What do you think of that so far?
<KipIngram>
I know I didn't get to any naming yet, but I'm "organizing" first.
<mark4>
KipIngram, i CAN assume that they are utterly unthinking and uneducated and do NOT understand the blessings God has given this country AND THEM
<KipIngram>
Well, you'll be right a lot more often in that case, but there are still thoughtful, educated people among them.
<mark4>
the indoctraination system called the education system which has been infiltrated by the left has brainwashed all the kids
<KipIngram>
I agree with you statistically.
<KipIngram>
But I try not to judge a person I've just met by their labels and demographic.
<KipIngram>
They are a person first.
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, yeah but which one is wall-nw and which one is wall-se?
<mark4>
i literally watch youtube videos of university processors teaching computer science spewing out HATE for christianity and americanism
<KipIngram>
And a BLM-er or cop second.
<KipIngram>
Right right, I'm getting there.
<KipIngram>
Do you agree with the transformation points first of all?
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<cmtptr>
KipIngram, no, there's no reflection, it's all rotation. but otherwise yes. i'm still working on a picture for yo
<cmtptr>
u
<KipIngram>
Wait. Let me explain.
<KipIngram>
If you pick up an "outer corner," the surfaces that are relevant to you run away from you, if you're standing there looking at the corner.
<nihilazo>
I find it funny that you say the education system is infiltrated by the left, if anything the education system (at least through high school, universities are a wildcard) is geared towards presenting a right-biased view of many topics
<nihilazo>
especially history
<KipIngram>
If you look at an inner corner, the surfaces that are relevant to you run toward you.
<KipIngram>
That's the reflection.
<nihilazo>
there are a lot of elements of US history that get glossed over in the education system that are kinda very important to the history of the US
<KipIngram>
If you reflect a corner, it both rotates 180 degrees and also becomes an opposite in the outer/inner sense.
<KipIngram>
You cannot get an inside corner just by rotating an outside corner.
<KipIngram>
You just reflect / bend it.
<KipIngram>
So I think you use -o and -i or something like that to DESIGNATE these things.
<mark4>
KipIngram, take one corner and mark one half red and one half blue a rotation and a reflection can be distinguished now
<KipIngram>
But for constructing them you can think in terms of rotation and reflection.
<KipIngram>
Ok, look. Let me go put a white spot on the outside of my house near the corner.
<KipIngram>
How can I just rotate it and make that spot move to an inside corner?
<KipIngram>
I suspect you and I are thinking of "outside" and "inside" in different ways some how.
<KipIngram>
We're probably both right in our own thinking, and therefore we are not communicating.
<KipIngram>
I can see a weakness in my use of the word reflection.
<KipIngram>
A reflection of an outside corner still looks like an outside corner.
<KipIngram>
So maybe reflection isn't the right idea.
<KipIngram>
You bend each wall 90 degrees to make an outside corner and inside corner.
* nihilazo
wonders if the politics discussion is completely over at this point
<KipIngram>
nihilazo: It's been my experience that conversations like this change no one's mind. And that makes sense, because everyone can find some "right" to cling to in all of this. So we're not really communicating either.
<KipIngram>
Our culture IS under attack. And the attackers are USING BLM and many other similar things as social cover.
<KipIngram>
As "human shields," so to speak.
<nihilazo>
I've had a few large changes in political beliefs and honestly idk what changed them
<KipIngram>
That doesn't make the core original meaning of BLM wrong.
<nihilazo>
I think a large part of me changing my politics was realising that the political side I used to mostly follow would literally hate me
<KipIngram>
I have too I was much more conservative, blindly so, when I was young.
<KipIngram>
I've embraced many of the left's messages. But the contemporary left is deeply under the control of bad players, in my opinion.
<nihilazo>
I've jumped all over the place, from mostly centrist to quite conservative to now quite left leaning
<KipIngram>
That doesn't make me reject the pieces of the thing that I've embraced. But it's a problem.
<nihilazo>
there are a lot of bad players on the left, it's true. Although the left spends more time fighting with itself than with what it dislikes in my experience
<KipIngram>
And that's a good thing - you are feeling out your heart and values.
<KipIngram>
I'm probably much older than you and have had more time to "get settled."
<nihilazo>
the purity culture of the internet left is incredibly toxic
<KipIngram>
Yes, that is also one of our big problems these days.
<nihilazo>
in a lot of places if you're not politically perfect according to whoever runs the group then you get shunned
<nihilazo>
which is awful in a lot of ways
<KipIngram>
Absolutely.
<nihilazo>
you see it a lot on twitter, which is why I stay away from twitter
<KipIngram>
It's great you see that. I think you are honestly trying to define your values, and like I said that's great.
<KipIngram>
I'm a moderator for a subreddit covering a series of books called The DResden Files.
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<KipIngram>
The series is narrated first person from inside the head of theprotagonist.
<KipIngram>
Who is a red-blooded male. Who also happens to be a wizard, but never mind that part.
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<KipIngram>
The author presents us with his unvarnished responses, internally, to beautiful women.
<KipIngram>
A lot of people on the sub just completely lose their shit over that.
<KipIngram>
Complain about "male gaze" and all that sort of thing.
<nihilazo>
the left is like, pretty awful tbh. But while the left is a bunch of bickering children, the right would literally want me and people like me either gone or dead so..lol
<KipIngram>
But I regard it as TOTAL ACCURACY. It's EXACTLY how I feel on the inside when an impressively sexy womann appears on the scene.
<KipIngram>
It's realistic, and therefore it is good writing.
<nihilazo>
yeah I feel like there is also that problem, people often see media in weird ways
<nihilazo>
like, you can portray a character as being a mysoginist
<nihilazo>
doesn't make the book mysogynist
<nihilazo>
you can present a character who is horny, doesn't make the book inherently antifeminist or whatever
<KipIngram>
The author has come under fire for 1) that, 2) not having an adequate number of black people in his books (there are 17 of them so far), and a number of other things.
<nihilazo>
people take things at too surface a level often I think
<KipIngram>
But if you really look at his female characters, they are incredibly strong, competent, and self-reliant.
<KipIngram>
He does NOT portray women in a chauvinist way.
<nihilazo>
like, folks will complain that a series doesn't have representation, and then characters get added and the fact they're there is like, worse
<KipIngram>
Women hold a lot of power in the series, in fact.
<nihilazo>
because you go from no representation to harmful representation
<nihilazo>
and that actually makes the problems of the "no representation" folks worse
<KipIngram>
cmtptr: I think you use -i and -o to designate your final product, man. I think there are some clever transformational ways you might get them, though.
<KipIngram>
I do think wall-ne-o rotated 180 is wall-sw-o.
<KipIngram>
That seems clear from just basic thinking.
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<KipIngram>
nilazo: I also think troublemakers hide behind the values of the right, as well.
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<KipIngram>
I deeply, deeply believe in individual freesom, economic freedom, the free market, and so on.
<cmtptr>
yes, it is, that's what i've done now - wall-nwo and wall-nwi, and then i rotate those to get the other dirs
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<KipIngram>
But big corporations have run amuck and gotten into positions that let them manipulate the economy - that undermines ALL of the goodness of capitalism.
<KipIngram>
But it doesn't make capitalism ITSELF wrong or bad.
<KipIngram>
Capitalism is still the economic system with the most potential to support individual freedom.
<KipIngram>
It turnns out we really should regulate it to some degree, though, to prevent too much centralization of power and wealth.
<nihilazo>
it's certainly better than state "communism" in the regard of individual freedom
<KipIngram>
But the people holding that power and wealth hide behind "free entnerprise."
<nihilazo>
although I think we can do better re: freedom, it would require a system so fundementally different that it could never be achieved
<KipIngram>
They use the holy words of freedom to protect the vested interests of the powers that have gotten control of the economy.
<KipIngram>
So this business of hiding behind valid institutions is rampant on both sides.
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<KipIngram>
cmtptr: well I think that's sound and logically consistent.
<KipIngram>
Whether you have a way of "producing" an inner wall / inner corner from outer and vice versa... well, I don't know.
<KipIngram>
I do see that rotating an outer wall can make you either an outer wall on the other side or an inner wall, depending on where you put it.
<KipIngram>
Simple rotation can't turn an outer corner into an inner corner, though.
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<KipIngram>
It's really a "bend" that does that.
<KipIngram>
Why is a corner not just a junction of two walls?
<cmtptr>
lol this is why i needed a picture
<KipIngram>
Looks to me like two outer walls meet to make an outer corner - two inner walls meet to make an inner corner.
<KipIngram>
It's just the precise positioning that's involved too.
<cmtptr>
it's because the walls have depth and shape to them, so for the rotation to work they have to be centered in their respective tile
<KipIngram>
nihilazo: mark4 and I seem to share some feelings here - for me at least those feelings are what you would think of as "old fashioned patriotic values." The values of freedom that America was actually founded on, as applied to normal, everyday folk.
<KipIngram>
I admit those values have been "hijacked" to some degree and used to defend concentrations of power that are bad for us.
<KipIngram>
That does not destroy the goodness of the original values, though.
<nihilazo>
I agree with most of the values that the USA was founded on
<nihilazo>
I just don't think it does a great job of upholding and protecting them, a lot of the time
<KipIngram>
And I think that the root origin of things like BLM was legitimate. The outrage over the George Floyd situationn was LEGITIMATE. I hate that police force for leading us into this ugly time by trying to protect a couple of their guys.
* nihilazo
is a brit, and *really* dislikes living under a monarchy
<KipIngram>
But those legitimate things have also been hijacked.
<KipIngram>
There is extensive evil in play on both the left and the right.
<KipIngram>
Then there's the rest of us, who "climb abort" one or the other side, because we really only have two sides these days, and as you pointed out yourself, the operating mode seems to be "if you're not totally on board, you're the enemy."
<KipIngram>
Both sides are guilty of that as well.
<KipIngram>
I think the guy, who is obviously liberal himself, calls out the liberal camp in an incredibly effective way.
<KipIngram>
You've likely already seen it.
<KipIngram>
I watch it every few months.
<KipIngram>
It's the latter part of it that hits home.
<KipIngram>
It captures how I feel about the "purity thing" very effectively.
<KipIngram>
cmtptr: Here is how you make an inner corner from an outer corner.
<KipIngram>
You rotate the two walls that form that outer corner 90 degrees each, around THE CORNER POINT as the axis of rotation.
<KipIngram>
Two walls e-o and s-o meet to form corner se-o.
<KipIngram>
But if you rotate the e-o 90 degrees into s-i and the s-o 90 degrees into w-i, now they meet to form corner nw-i.
<KipIngram>
The two 90 degree rotations are opposite polarity, to get that to happen.
<KipIngram>
If you rotate both walls the same way, you just get a different corner of the same interior/exterior nature.
<KipIngram>
So maybe you need to think in terms of rotation single walls to get your full complement of stuff.
<KipIngram>
If you rotate two inner walls 90 degrees away from each other, you make them outer walls and they now meet at an outer corner.
<KipIngram>
If you rotate them the same direction, you just get different inner corner.
<KipIngram>
Make sense?
<KipIngram>
nihilazo: Do you mind if I ask your age?
<mark4>
our founding fathers were not terrorits and in fact did not break the law, king george did and our founding fathers knew it
<mark4>
the revolution was a RESTORATION of law and order
<mark4>
this anarchy is a complete disavowal of law and order
<KipIngram>
I agree with that.
<KipIngram>
It is not the legitimate protesting that I oppose. And I don't want to devolve into an argument over how much of it is legitimate protest and how much of it isn't - we all know the difference between the two things.
<mark4>
unfortunately modern kids were NEVER taught civics and do not understand how king george abdicated his sovereignty over us when he cancelled all the royal charters
<KipIngram>
Legitimate protestors stand their with signs and don't get in people's way.
<KipIngram>
No problem with that.
<mark4>
in so doing he made every single individual HIS EQUAL in sovereignty
<KipIngram>
But when you walk out into the road with your sign and block traffic, that's no longer a legitimate protest.
<mark4>
but i cant have sovereignty over you because you have your own sovereignty
<KipIngram>
It's a simple line that we all recognize, but we get so busy arguing we won't focus on that point of agreement.
<KipIngram>
We just disavow the existence of the behaviors opposite from the one's we're criticizing.
<mark4>
actually blocking traffic is a PROBLEM and shows lack of consideration but i would take that over looting and burning
<KipIngram>
Well, sure.
<KipIngram>
But I still put the traffic blockinng on the "wrong side" of the line.
<mark4>
agreed
<KipIngram>
Along with looting and destruction of property.
<mark4>
you have a right to protest but i have an equal right to travel
<mark4>
you exercising your rights in violation of mine IS a problem
<KipIngram>
Correct - you have a right to IGNORE the protestors if you wish, and go about your business.
<KipIngram>
If they act to prevent you from ignoring them, they've crossed the line.
<KipIngram>
nihilazo: I'm still curious about your age - my question scrolled away.
<KipIngram>
In the spirit of going first, I'm 58, since January.
<mark4>
i thogut i was the oldest fart in here!
<mark4>
lol
<mark4>
56
<KipIngram>
Gotcha. :-)
<KipIngram>
No wonder we think a good bit alike.
<cmtptr>
jfc gimp is hard to use
<KipIngram>
We really came of age in same world.
<KipIngram>
mark4: Were you a Reagan fanboy like I was?
<mark4>
i still am but i think trump was a better president
<KipIngram>
Totally believed in the guy. Then later I found out that while he was governor of CA he strongly backed gun control, because it was the Black Panthers that wanted to exercise their gun rights. I was like, "Well, SHIT."
<KipIngram>
That wasn't a nice thing.
<mark4>
a hippie is someone who looks like tarzan, walks like jane and smells like cheta
<KipIngram>
Tainted him a little in my eyes, but I still think he's the best President we've had in my life.
<mark4>
actually gun control has its roots in racism, i agree with disarming terrorists like the black panthers though
<mark4>
gun control was originally a way to keep guns out of the hands of the freed slaves
<mark4>
who were NEVER recognizzed as 'we the people' even to this day
<KipIngram>
mark4: I don't know what I think of Trump. I don't hold him in the totally evil regard that the left does. I agree with some of his GOALS. Like, argue all you wantn over whether we needed / need a wall, but the general goal of controlling immigration is one I'm behind. I DO NOT think we should just have open borders.
<mark4>
the 13th amendment freed the slaves
<mark4>
the 14th amendment re-enslaved them
<KipIngram>
I don't know the best way to achieve that, but I support the GOAL.
<mark4>
by defining them as "citizens of the fedral government"
<mark4>
you cant disarm the BP's because in so doing you disarm everyone elses
<mark4>
instead
<mark4>
i mean
<mark4>
the way to fight terrorist organizations like BLM and BP's is to put a gun in the hands of every single law abiding citizen who wants one
<mark4>
if you are in your cowboy town and the indianas are attacking it you give that murderer a rifle and a box of ammo too
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, what I didn't show in that picture is that i could have named any of the bottom-right corners -se and dispatched with the "inside" and "outside" stuff - the problem is what is more naturally a nw corner and what is more naturally a se corner? or maybe the inside and outside is the clearest
<nihilazo>
wait, of course the founding farthers broke the law
<nihilazo>
BP's?
<mark4>
black panthers
<nihilazo>
o
<mark4>
nihilazo, where did they break the law?
<nihilazo>
they literally started a war lmao
<nihilazo>
if that isn't breaking the law idk what is
<mark4>
nihilazo, no actually
<nihilazo>
I think the society they built is somewhat more just than the one they left
<nihilazo>
but they still like, started a revolution to overthrow the government of the time
<mark4>
when the english king sent men from england to america he did so in order to profit by it. those men KNEW that in england they had the protections of the magna carta
<mark4>
they DEMANDED those protections followed them.
<mark4>
the king agreed, drew up the royal charters and sent his men to america to make money here
<mark4>
they did so. they paid their taxes to him
<mark4>
he raised taxes and we had NO representation
<mark4>
it is lawful to protest even the kings actions and we did that
<mark4>
HE DECLARED WAR and set his men in
<mark4>
we defended ourselves
<nihilazo>
and what BLM is doing is lawful too. We're protesting the government's actions
<mark4>
he cancelled the royal charters and in so doing he BROKE CONTRACT
<mark4>
no. its not
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, only just read what you wrote about rotating about the corner point - two problems with that: 1. it doesn't translate very well to a tile engine where everything is expected to be a uniform square with a common origin, and 2. it only works if the walls are perfectly vertical, otherwise they need some human intervention to merge properly
<nihilazo>
it's the government who are sending cops in to fight us and we're defending ourselves
<nihilazo>
lol
<mark4>
nihilazo, BLM members have a right to PROTEST
<nihilazo>
the civil rights movement of the 60s also broke laws but I doubt you'd call those people terrorists, right?
<mark4>
they do not have a right to riot, loot, burn, destroy or kill
<mark4>
thats not lawful.
<mark4>
our founding fathers did none of that
<nihilazo>
ok, a BLM protestor has never killed
<mark4>
they DEFENEDED against an attack
<nihilazo>
looting happened for a very tiny time in like one city
<nihilazo>
same with burning and destroying
<mark4>
what?
<mark4>
horse feathers
<nihilazo>
a BLM protestor has never killed anybody lol. a cop has, many times
<nihilazo>
cops almost have a habit of killing black folks, actually. That's why the protests started in the first place
<cmtptr>
that's not true
<cmtptr>
statistically whites are overrepresented in cop killings
<nihilazo>
they have a higher number, but they are underrepresented
<nihilazo>
because these statistics have to be viewed according to relative population size
<nihilazo>
relative to the black population of the united states, far more are killed by cops than as a percentage of the white population
<cmtptr>
no, they are overrepresented relative to population size
<nihilazo>
and even one person being killed by a cop shouldn't happen, regardless of race
<mark4>
qualified immunity is unconstitutional PERIOD. for cops, for judges AND for prosecutors
<KipIngram>
cmtptr: I have no experience with tile engines, so I will take your word for that.
<cmtptr>
comparing the portion of whites experiencing police interaction and the portion of blacks who experience police interaction, whites are statistically shot more
<KipIngram>
I was thinking in a very "mathematically pure" way.
<cmtptr>
KipIngram, yeah, i understand. the goal is, in the interest of simplicity, everything is built up as a mosaic of uniform tiles
<mark4>
judges and prosecutors have cart blanch to destroy your lives for vindictive reasons if they so chose, even in violation of the law. there is NO recourse if they do so
<mark4>
a cop CAN occasionally suffer the consequences in court
<mark4>
but that is rare
<nihilazo>
yeah, qualified immunity is stupid
<nihilazo>
we can agree on that at least
<cmtptr>
well now that we've all agreed on how to name my wall tiles
<cmtptr>
what's for lunch?
<nihilazo>
speaking of lunch I need to go eat
<mark4>
name wall tiles?
<KipIngram>
nihilazo: the problem with "even one person being shot is wrong" is that it's an imperfect world. It is wrong. But no process involving humanns is ever going to achieve 100% performance, regardless of how performance is defined. It feels to me like WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE are getting shot for it to be considered a "tolerable error rate," but I don't expect the number to ever be zero.
<KipIngram>
And we have a news media who makes DAMN SURE we now about EVERY SINGLE THING that can fan our feelings.
<KipIngram>
know about
<cmtptr>
the founding philosophy of this country is that we are all born with inherent rights, and it's a crime against humanity to infringe on those, even if doing so may make the world a safer place
<KipIngram>
The more uncertain, unclear, and potentially "wrongdoing" it is, the better they like it and the more they pile onto it.
<KipIngram>
cmtptr: I agree - exactly.
<KipIngram>
That philosophy is that even a minority of ONE is to be protected from abuse by the majority.
<cmtptr>
the challenge presented before us is to make the world as safe as possible /without/ infringing on natural rights, because nothing is worse than infringement
<KipIngram>
That used to be the operating principle here in America, but since 9/11 it no longer is.
<mark4>
the patriot act is not how patriots act
<KipIngram>
We blilthely looked the other way while our freedom was SIGNIFICANTLY diminished post 9/11.
<cmtptr>
americans were brainwashed and primed before then, they had to be for the patriot act to ever pass
<KipIngram>
I used to be able to just walk up to a counter in an airport, lay down money, and hop an every 15-minute flight to Dallas.
<KipIngram>
Like it was a bus.
<KipIngram>
Those days are GONE and they aren't coming back.
<KipIngram>
My children don't even remember those days, so they don't even know something's been taken from them.
<mark4>
kip you are in texas?
<KipIngram>
Yes - Houston area.
<KipIngram>
Small town just west of Houston.
<mark4>
ever had a speeding ticket?
<mark4>
i lived in dalls for 3 years
<KipIngram>
Long ago. After the last one I got a built-in radar put in my Porsche.
<mark4>
KipIngram, dont worry about it. just go what ever speed you want but dont have a collision
<KipIngram>
Prima facia speed law.
<KipIngram>
I knowl
<KipIngram>
I wouldn't expect it to hold up in court, though.
<mark4>
if you get pulled over for speeding then the COP, the JUDGE and the PROSECUTION will all suppress 545.351 b2
<mark4>
in order for a speeding citation to be valid the state has to PROVE you voilted TWO provisions of 545.351.
<KipIngram>
I know.
<KipIngram>
But most judges will take the cops word that you did.
<mark4>
1) you were travelling faster than was reasonable or prudent
<mark4>
2) you were not able to avoid a collision
<KipIngram>
In who's opinnion?
<KipIngram>
On 1.
<mark4>
without a colission you were not speeding
<KipIngram>
2 seems clear.
<mark4>
KipIngram, thats the point. its subjective
<mark4>
but 2 is not
<KipIngram>
Well, if I do wind up in court over a ticket again, then I may try that.
<KipIngram>
But I don't for a second expect it to work.
<mark4>
2 is 545.351 b2)
<mark4>
if you did not violate that provision then A and B1 are not relevant
<KipIngram>
The last ticket I got there was no other vehicle anywhere around.
<KipIngram>
I was enjoying the curvy roads between College Station and west Houston.
<KipIngram>
Those roads are a joy in my turbo-charged mid-engine Porsche Cayman.
<mark4>
you should try that same road with an RX-8
<KipIngram>
I have an RX-8, actually.
<mark4>
less powerful than your porche but can take those corners WAY faster
<KipIngram>
It's my beater car.
<mark4>
!!!!!!1
<mark4>
i have owned 3 in the past but probably wont ever own another
<mark4>
not practical any more
<KipIngram>
It's sitting in the driveway on a trickle charger now, so it's ready whenever I want it.
<mark4>
but i love the rx-8
<KipIngram>
It's a nice car.
<KipIngram>
Less powerful, as you say, but still with enough spirit that I don't feel like I'm "slumming."
<mark4>
i called my dad and said "dad i need some advice, im thinking of getting an RX-8"
<mark4>
he said "dont ask me for advice on taht one i lvoe those cars!" lol
<mark4>
i bought my first
<KipIngram>
:-)
<KipIngram>
My dad passed away in 1999. Way too young - just 65.
<mark4>
only 238 bhp but i have seen them toy with 400+ hp pourch's on the track :)
<KipIngram>
He had a heart condition that had tachycardia as a symptom. I think it hit him in his sleep one night and was more than his heart can take. He just didn't wake up.
<KipIngram>
It's hereditary, but I don't have it - it shows on an EKG.
<KipIngram>
It's a way fun car. :-)
<KipIngram>
I enjoy both of them.
<KipIngram>
The Porsche turbo is aftermarket - Porsche doesn't sell the Cayman in a turbo model.
<KipIngram>
Because it makes it nip at the heels of the 911 line.
<KipIngram>
But the Cayman is an incredibly well "balanced" car, with the mid-engine thing.
<mark4>
yea thats why the rx is so stable. equal weight distribution across all 4 wheels
<KipIngram>
mark4: Do you know Saparok?
<mark4>
err no?
<KipIngram>
Ok. Just another freenode guy.
<KipIngram>
I chat with him a good bit - he lives in Austin and is retired after getting semi-wealthy via Dell.
<KipIngram>
He was a Dell "low badge number" guy.
<KipIngram>
Anyway, he's similar age to us, and way into cars.
<KipIngram>
He drives a Lotus.
<mark4>
i cant be into cars any more :(
<mark4>
i drive a FJ now
<KipIngram>
And talks about how it sticks to the pavement like paint. :-)
<KipIngram>
He enjoys treating my Porsche like a second class citizen. ;-)
<KipIngram>
There's a spirited rivalry there.
<mark4>
heh
<mark4>
challenge him to a race. he drives your car, you drive his :)
<KipIngram>
But damn, those Lotus models sit so close to the ground, and don't really know how you'd even think about flipping one over.
<KipIngram>
Your butt's just a few inches over the pavement.
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<KipIngram>
mark4: Regarding Texas speed law, one of the factors here is that I don't want to have the inconvenience of having to go into court to argue the law with a judge and prosecutor who are free to ignore me. I would rather avoid the issue altogether by slowing down when my radar detector tells me to.
<KipIngram>
I take a vile pleasure in ripping around the community and then rolling by traffic cops and waving right at the speed limit.
<mark4>
agreed lol
<mark4>
in a fight the best defense is to be somewhere else :)
<KipIngram>
By "ripping around" I don't mean anything insane. I generally go 15-20 over, in situations where I feel entirely safe doing so.
<KipIngram>
I avoid 25+ over, even when it feels safe, just because that's flirting with getting taken to jail.
<mark4>
i flirt with taht every time i get in my FJ
<mark4>
i have no plates on it, im never putting plates on it
<mark4>
it is not registered, it is never being registered
<KipIngram>
There are a few places I'll do that, like on our controlled access tollway where I can feel confident I'm not "reachable" by an officer who could read my speed.
<KipIngram>
That is flirtation, for sure.
<mark4>
heh
<mark4>
i was pulled over in louisiana when i drove from tx to nc and i was doing 55 in a 35 with no plates... i got left off with a warning :)
<mark4>
which i heeded
<KipIngram>
:-)
<KipIngram>
I admire your hutzpah.
<KipIngram>
Fight that good fight, brother. :-)
<mark4>
he let me off because i have a police body cam on my dashboard :P
<mark4>
"are you a cop?" no but i have a police body cam :)
<mark4>
i think his reasoning was "if i break the law here he has a record of it i cant tamper with so ill just let him off just in case" lol
<KipIngram>
I have thought about camming my car, just to avoid any police misbehavior.
<mark4>
police body cams are password protected. i use it as a dashcam
<KipIngram>
I actually have one that I just haven't installed. I really need to do that.
<KipIngram>
I see.
<mark4>
i recommend doing it immediately not eventually
<KipIngram>
I know. :-|
<KipIngram>
You are right.
<mark4>
also. a dashcam can be tampered with
<mark4>
MINE cant
<KipIngram>
How did you get it?
<mark4>
its literally a police body cam
<mark4>
amazon
<KipIngram>
Are they generally available?
<mark4>
yup
<KipIngram>
Ok, fair enough. I will take a look at that.
<KipIngram>
It seems wise.
<mark4>
i even put a magnet on it and one on my jacket
<mark4>
i usually have it stuck to my jacket as i walk around walmart
<KipIngram>
That's fun. :-)
<KipIngram>
What I really wish I had is a dash cam that streamed to a secure server.
<mark4>
you can do that too
<mark4>
with an android
<KipIngram>
Definitively out of reach of anyone.
<mark4>
but all they need is a cell phone jammer and BOOM you are disconnected
<KipIngram>
Good point.
<mark4>
and every single immigration checkpoint has those
<KipIngram>
But your body cam could just disappear.
<mark4>
another way to do it is to have a hidden SSD somewhere in your car that the cameras record to
<mark4>
yes
<mark4>
but when i bring up the fact that i used to have a dash cam and that it has evidence that is reasonable doubt when the state refuses to produce it
<mark4>
you took it. it has evidence i wish to present to MY jury. you are blocking that. you are interfering with the course of justice
<mark4>
move to dismiss
<mark4>
the suppression of evidence is ALWAYS reasonable doubt
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<tabemann>
all that seems like way too much trouble just to stick it to the man
<KipIngram>
Well, that's kind of where I am. I view my radar as a way to stay out of trouble with the man. I prefer no interaction whatsoever.
<KipIngram>
Most of the places I drive are well-populated with traffic. If I rounded one of those empty curves between here and College station going 85-90 and suddenly someone speed gunned me, I'd almost certainly still draw a ticket.
<KipIngram>
I can slow down awfully fast, but I do have to react, and modern guns are fast.
<KipIngram>
But in town where I drive, I pick up radar activity a mile or two before I get to the hot zone, so I'm all forewarned to drive by nicely.
<KipIngram>
That last ticket I got I didn't have the radar, but I was just recognizing the cruiser parked off in the distance and was bringing it down from 90 or so.
<KipIngram>
He clocked me at 68, in a 60 zone.
<KipIngram>
Could have been a lot worse.
<KipIngram>
When I realized that he could have gotten me at 90 had I been a little less attentive, I went and dropped the money on the radar install.
<KipIngram>
There's a really annoying fault in its installation, though. If it's on and I turn the car off, and then turn it on again in less than 5 minutes or so, the radar won't come on. Somehow it doesn't get a clean power cycle that way.
<KipIngram>
I don't know what's holding a little charge that keeps its circuitry in a non-off state, but it's a real pain.
<KipIngram>
If I'm near home I'll just drive the rest of the way home without speeding. If I'm on the road and it happens I'll pull over at the next gas station and go in and shop for a few minutes, so that the re-crank will bring it back.
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<tabemann>
back
<tabemann>
to me at least, I prefer to just avoid the trouble of all that, so I stay around 10-15 over max
<tabemann>
also, with LIDAR, you don't know when they've registered your vehicle - all LIDAR detectors are useful for is detecting when they've registered someone else
<tabemann>
I still got a ticket like a couple years back nonetheless
<KipIngram>
My LIDAR feature is mostly good for registering halogen headlights. I've only ever had it go off one time when there was actually a cop using LIDAR on me.
<KipIngram>
Mine's capable of scrambling laser, but I keep that feature turned off, because that's a $500 illegal equipment fine in TX.
<tabemann>
I just keep my eyes open for cops and slow down when I see them, and drive slowly enough that I can slow down to the speed limit fast enough
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