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<sync>
Noxz: you cannot run Biodiesel in a CR engine
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<Noxz>
sync, I know of plenty of reports that claim common rail is fine.. there are issues if the engine is super old and you swap to it, then you get crud in your injectors etc immedietly fromt he cleaning action of BD
<sync>
no, the issue is that the lubricity of biodiesel is not good enough to lube common rail pumps
<sync>
you can run it, but it will kill your engine
<Noxz>
engine or the pump? you can use a pump that works better (higher flow/whatnot) for BD if that is concern
<sync>
Well, it will kill the pump, which kills the injectors, which kills the engine as it is cheaper to just buy a new one
<sync>
There is no pump for biodiesel
<Noxz>
if there is a pump that is lubricated by oil vs the fuel, that would resolve the issue at hand, correct?
<sync>
Yes, but there are none for passenger vehicles
<Noxz>
I'll certainly look into this more
<sync>
and I don't think starting with rusefi is a good idea
<Noxz>
Why is that?
<sync>
because it doesn't work like a oem ecu works
<sync>
which is the easier way in a diesel engine
<Noxz>
I dont have an oem ecu though
<sync>
get one
<sync>
they are cheap
<sync>
that thing probably runs off an edc17
<sync>
and you can use almost any of them
<Noxz>
I'm already vested in the project of using rusEFI, or at least htis injection controller IC
<Noxz>
"it just works" isnt a valid reason for me to use something
<Noxz>
and I like the idea of opensource
<sync>
what injector technology does the engine use?
<Noxz>
common-rail direct injection
<Noxz>
denso injectors, iirc
<Noxz>
engine will arrive on Wednesday
<sync>
that is not the technology
<Noxz>
ummm ... ?
<sync>
so you have no idea how a modern CR diesel actually works and what makes it go?
<Noxz>
I do - I am unsure what you are looking for as an answer
<sync>
I don't think you do if you do not know which type your injectors are
<Noxz>
yeah - not sure what answer your looking for?
<Noxz>
I can tell you the injector "type" by denso
<sync>
well, then you should know which technology it is
<sync>
there are only two
<Noxz>
elcitrical solenoid vs mechanical ?
<Noxz>
or rather, solenoid vs piezo
<Noxz>
if we established it was electrical to begin with
<Noxz>
they are solenoid
<sync>
yes, solenoid is the more common one nowadays
<Noxz>
sorry if that was what you were trying to get across.. the "hint" on 2 types certainly helped get to the end
<Noxz>
also, I am sick :( .. so a little slow right now
<sync>
well, if you tried to drive piezo injectors with a regular injector driver, that doesn't work at all
<sync>
look at the edc17 schematics to see how they do it
<Noxz>
the driver IC I will likely be going for (that I have the eval board for) is the NXP MC33816
<sync>
I would start with something easier than a CR engine
<Noxz>
well, kinda too late
<Noxz>
in a sense
<sync>
an old VEP engine will give you enough challenges
<Noxz>
it'll be delivered in a few days, and I'll be stuck with it
<Noxz>
really, I was looking for something modern with near no miles on it
<Noxz>
so I ruled out most "old" stuff
<Noxz>
I have a meeting in a few mins
<sync>
why tho, you have no idea how to control diesels
<Noxz>
why do you assume that? also, I can learn.. the whole idea of making a flowbench before trying to run the engine should save a few connecting rods :P
<sync>
because you do not seem to have any idea how diesel engines are actually controlled by the ecu
<sync>
it is significantly easier to take an oem ecu and read how it works, fiddle with the maps and then roll your own
<Noxz>
what gives you the idea that I dont know how they are controlled?
<sync>
have you read through the funktionsrahmen that are on the internet?
<Noxz>
is that a german word?
<Noxz>
also, meeting time..
<Noxz>
bbiab
<sync>
yes that is a german word
<sync>
there is very few documentation avalible in the wild that is in english
<Noxz>
I've noticed that
<sync>
Another question for you to think about, what does the throttlebody do in a diesel engine?
<pie__>
random: <Burninate> Electron beam welding reduces the need for fasteners in some fuselage components by up to 75%, which reduces weight, simplifies the assembly process, and avoids the costs associated with fasteners. The reduction in the number of fasteners also means fewer openings for possible fuel leaks.
<Noxz>
hah, lucky me, the throttle body was not on this block :/ .. but only ~$75 or so
<Noxz>
but what I udnerstand that it does is more or less limit the amount of air during intake
<Noxz>
by restricting the air
<sync>
Well yes, but do you need that?
<Noxz>
well, you want a good balance of fuel:air
<sync>
Where does a diesel engine usually run?
<Noxz>
like in what climate zones? in what sorts of settings, ie, industrial standstill vs residential cars
<sync>
No
<sync>
Air to fuel ratios
<Noxz>
didnt know it off the top of my head, had to look it up, 15:1
<Noxz>
roughly
<Noxz>
14.5:! acording to other sources, but yeah..
<Noxz>
and that's stoichiometric
<Noxz>
ugh, I hate being sick..
<sync>
so you really don't know how a diesel engine works :)
<sync>
it's gonna be a lot of reading for you then
<Noxz>
I'm really missing what you are getting at
<sync>
I'm testing if you know how diesel engines work
<Noxz>
intakes air, compresses raising the temperature/pressure on compression stroke, diesel is squirted in (some pre/posts along with the main injection) during power stroke where it ignites with the air on the power stroke, which then, remaining, is the exhuast stroke
<Noxz>
ugh, repeated myself a bit
<Noxz>
sick :/
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<sync>
Yes, but those are the very basics
<sync>
You don't even know at which air to fuel they run at
<Noxz>
wh should I know that off the top of my head? for what purpose?
<Noxz>
it's pointless
<Noxz>
and the fact that you're quizing me is ridiculous
<Noxz>
you havent really changed me mind (grantid, having bought 'expensive' parts sets me on a certain direction) nor taught me anything new
<Noxz>
and every search about the lubricity of BD that I've done says it is better than fossil-diesel, including peer reviewed papers, so I am not sure where you got your info on that
<sync>
read the bosch documentation on their high pressure pumps
<sync>
they are not specced for biodiesel applications
<sync>
because those things are so essential to diesel operation that I cannot imagine that you bought parts without even researching those parts of the task ahead
<Noxz>
I didnt buy "those parts".. I bought a nearly complete engine
<sync>
yes
<sync>
missing the important part
<Noxz>
the only thing I've really come across is material compatibility
<sync>
the issue with biodiesel is that it is a good detergent and will carry deposits over and is more hygroscopic than pure diesel
<sync>
which will kill the pump
<Noxz>
drying is a very important step of producing bd
<Noxz>
and the car I have imagined to schtick the engine into is rather small, so I wouldnt be holding fuel for too long
<Noxz>
not saying it cant extract it from the atm
<sync>
it does
<sync>
and you don't even need a throttlebody with diesels
<Noxz>
but, being a "good detergent" is only an argument for an older engine that has run fossil-diesel for a while and built up gunk, not for a brand new engine that is essentially clean
<sync>
well, you are gonna use it
<sync>
and your fuel is never clean
<sync>
and you are most likely gonna burn a hole in your pistons if you never look into the mapping of the oem ecu