<speakman_>
Using the old sunxi-3.4 kernel, I could use Mali GPU and accelerate Qt5 apps using "eglfs" platform. With the mainline kernel I can't use eglfs anymore, and when using linuxfb the screen is redrawing visibly slow.
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<speakman>
Any of you running Qt5 on non sunxi linux kernel?
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<jrg>
tkaiser: hi
<jrg>
i just wiped my debian install and am trying to figure out how to resize the partition to take up the entire 64GB SD
<tkaiser>
jrg: You're struggling with BPi M3 and BSP kernel?
<jrg>
but fdisk is only allowing me to resize to 100MB :)
<jrg>
tkaiser: i was trying to figure a way to boot from emmc and still use the microSD as storage only
<jrg>
there isn't a straightforward way to do that
<tkaiser>
jrg: Sure, that's easy.
<jrg>
is it?
<tkaiser>
jrg: Which device are you using and which kernel? Just to confirm
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<jrg>
Linux bananapi 3.4.39-BPI-M3-Kernel #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue May 3 13:47:01 UTC 2016 armv7l GNU/Linux
<tkaiser>
jrg: Ok, crap device and crap kernel (keep that in mind when dealing with mount.cifs also -- BSP kernel is known for broken networking)
<jrg>
tkaiser: oh that was another issue
<jrg>
mount.cifs kept giving me problems to rm files that were written from osx/windows clients
<jrg>
it would just hang there on rm for some files but not all
<jrg>
tkaiser: what about booting from emmc and having SD as only storage though? right now i was about to just boot from the SD and use emmc as swap heh
<tkaiser>
jrg: A83T will prefer booting from SD card if present so in case you have an SD card inserted, then the bootloader has to remain there. In case you use any of SinoVoip's more recent images, then you have to keep the 1st 100 MB (or so) and point to eMMC from uEnv.txt
<tkaiser>
jrg: I won't comment on your CIFS issues since you're using the crap kernel, just a waste of time
<jrg>
heh
<jrg>
is there a better kernel?
<jrg>
i'm just running what the debian image was using
<tkaiser>
jrg: Regarding location of uEnv.txt see IRC log from yesterday please. On the SinoVoip images the FAT partition is filled with junk
<jrg>
so is the cifs issue a problem with the kernel?
<jrg>
if so maybe i can mount in userspace instead of using cifsd?
<jrg>
not sure if that is even possible nowadays
<tkaiser>
jrg: I don't mind. At least I won't look into since it's just a waste of time dealing with this crappy kernel. Put the M3 in the drawer and check situation in 2017 ;)
<jrg>
haha
<jrg>
that's ok. i will just figure a different means .. maybe nfs
<jrg>
i was hoping to use samba for everything though... the rpi and bpi were the only ones giving me big problems
<jrg>
with the above issue
<tkaiser>
jrg: Be prepared that you can not easily swap out CIFS with NFS (if you care about enxodings and metadata). In case you have an hour: https://bugs.freenas.org/issues/5904
<jrg>
yah i noticed
<jrg>
i tried it. it was a bit of a pain so i stopped and started looking for the cifs issue some more
<tkaiser>
jrg: tl;dr: You bought the wrong device since the 'support' you get from SinoVoip is a joke, there aren't OS images available that do not suck and mainline kernel support isn't ready yet.
<jrg>
lol
<jrg>
ah well.. it is what it is. :) i'll just try to use some other method to see if i can use it.. other than the cifs thing it was decent
<jrg>
(parted) resize 2
<jrg>
Error: The resize command has been removed in parted 3.0
<tkaiser>
jrg: In case you use this image, you'll burn it to your SD card, then boot from it (will reboot one time automatically and resize ext4 partition to the max)
<tkaiser>
Then it depends. You could overwrite the whole eMMC again with the image, then remove the SD card, boot from eMMC so that you're able to boot afterwards also without inserted SD card.
<tkaiser>
Or you use our nand_sata_install.sh script to wipe out eMMC and copy the rootfs over (but this script will most probably fail since SinoVoip images do not use boot.cmd/boot.scr but uEnv.txt instead).
<tkaiser>
Then all that's needed is to adjust the root= path in uEnv.txt on the 1st FAT partition on the SD card and to adjust /etc/fstab on eMMC. Then the board boots from SD card but switches immediately to the eMMC as rootfs. And you can use the large ext4 partition on the SD card for whatever you want.
<tkaiser>
Just check /proc/partitions for the device identifiers since they are not as expected!
<tkaiser>
jrg: And please keep in mind that some frustrated M3 users populate the 'other boards' section in Armbian forum, so maybe it's a good point to ask for further advice in case you're stuck: http://forum.armbian.com/index.php/forum/11-other-boards/
<tkaiser>
luoyi: Anything. Would be the first time that specs provided by 'Team BPi' would be correct. I wouldn't trust in any of this.
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<luoyi>
but i2cdetect -y 1 is detect i2c-1 ?
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<luoyi>
[root@alarm ~]# i2cdetect -y 2 Error: Could not open file `/dev/i2c-2' or `/dev/i2c/2': No such file or directory
<tkaiser>
luoyi: No idea. I just wanted to say that historically not a single hardware description provided by 'Team BPi' was correct. They do not care that much and most often there 'specs' are the result of copy&paste gone wrong
<luoyi>
there are even no i2c-2 on the system
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<maz>
wens: see my last email. I'm pretty worried.
<wens>
maz: sun8i (a23/a33/h3/a83t) do not have secure sram, so the PSCI text and stack are whereever they were in u-boot, left in dram
<wens>
u-boot currently adds a reserved memory node, but for the range of secure_start ~ secure_end
<wens>
maz: but sure, i'll also look at a20
<maz>
wens: stuff that doesn't get relocated is fine indeed, but I'd expect sane platforms to relocate their PSCI code to some other place, and that's where shit will hit the proverbial fan.
<maz>
wens: I think we need an urgent fix for that one.
<wens>
maz: looking at the disassembly of the resulting u-boot binary for a20, it looks to be relocated
<wens>
bbl
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<codekipper>
luoyi: I looked at the schematics which should show pin to pin descriptions correctly and in all cases the pin header was i2c2
<codekipper>
may of been looking at the M1 flavour
<codekipper>
which is why I asked for the schematic for your board
<maz>
wens: it is not really in the binary itself, but in the code that is actually run. When u-boot starts, it copies the PSCI code into SRAM, and relocates a few symbols there. Can you please dump the SRAM content and check it in there?
<jrg>
tkaiser: im working off your semi armbian img
<mripard>
luoyi: I've been trying all day long yesterday without success
<codekipper>
maybe that's something you could push to mainline.
<luoyi>
I've tested 16/44.4KHz 24/48KHz 24/96KHz , all work well
<jrg>
i gave up on cifs. although it is important to point out the rpi with a 4.x kernel had the same issue. it isnt just the pi heh
<luoyi>
mripard: do you use codekipper's driver code or just mainline's ?
<jrg>
bpi
<codekipper>
do you have any issue at startup?...mine refuses to play until reboot and then I need to play with alsamixer...but it's not obvious what change makes it work
<jrg>
but thanks for the help. im using your ong now. it expanded the fs. although i wish it was a lite version
<jrg>
img
<mripard>
luoyi: there's no driver in mainline yet.
<luoyi>
mainline have uda1380.c & uda1380.h , just not get compiled
<luoyi>
for playback ,do you connect to the tx group ?
<jrg>
tkaiser: yah.
<jrg>
ill just use the emmc as swap heh
<mripard>
luoyi: yes, but it doesn't have the i2s driver
<jrg>
and use the sd to boot/root
<luoyi>
mripard: when you do the play , have a look at pll2 register
<tkaiser>
jrg: That's weird. Just follow the instructions and move the rootfs to eMMC. This will be way faster (especially random I/O which is more important)
<luoyi>
does it get set to the correct value ?
<luoyi>
codekipper: when capture, do you unmute the ADC ?
<luoyi>
alsamixer show ADC is unmute defaut
<luoyi>
default
<mripard>
luoyi: and I think I did
<mripard>
I don't have it here, so I can't look at the labels
<tkaiser>
jrg: Since you can get fake cards from everywhere (Amazon too of course) you can do now an 'armbianmonitor -c $HOME' (given $HOME points to the large ext4 partition on your card) to let it check for fake/counterfeit and performance
<jelle>
apritzel: well you can do pretty much anything with it!
<jelle>
"Pretty much anything else, because Orange Pi Plus is open source
<jelle>
....
<apritzel>
in the meaning of: you can run your own software? (which could be even Open source)
<jelle>
apritzel: I assume so :p
<tkaiser>
apritzel: I don't know whether they get what open source means. I tried to explain it several times to @sinovoip in the past but that's like talking to a wall.
<apritzel>
one day I will try this Linux thing everyone talks about ;-)
<jrg>
tkaiser: language barrier
<jrg>
with the chinese you cant be aggresive.. you must slowly merge with one china
<jrg>
tkaiser: are they using closed blobs?
<jrg>
is that why theyre stuck on the ancient kernel?
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<tkaiser>
jrg: They use what they got from Allwinner as BSP (board support package) and then they use this until linux-sunxi community has finished mainline work. In the meantime they tell their users they would work on mainline kernel and so on (while they do not even update the stuff they got from Allwinner, eg. 3.4.39 to 3.4.112).
<ssvb>
it still needs some cleanups, but everything seems to be working fine
<jrg>
KotCzarny: is there a case for the opi p2e?
<tkaiser>
ssvb: Nice. Did you get a response when asking for inclusion of SPI flash on OPi Plus 2?
<ssvb>
tkaiser: do you mean opi3?
<tkaiser>
s/Plus 2/PC 2/
<tkaiser>
ssvb: The H64 model. No idea how it's called ;)
<apritzel>
ssvb: oh nice, will definitely try later tonight
<ssvb>
tkaiser: no, I did not get any reply, but IgorPec said that their mailbox is probably flooded with tons of mail, and skype is a better communication method
<tkaiser>
ssvb: Sounds reasonable
<KotCzarny>
jrg: dont know, check opi shop page on ali
<ssvb>
apritzel: now will try to make SPI patches for U-Boot, hopefully this will not take much time
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<ssvb>
tkaiser: well, if they are trying to compete with Raspberry Pi 3, then Orange Pi 3 would be a reasonable name
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<tkaiser>
ssvb: Sure. But at least I don't get the name scheme at all.
<tkaiser>
ssvb: Maybe this PC 2 has then an external 100 Mbits/sec PHY and an OPi 3 comes with RTL8211E? Who knows...
<ssvb>
tkaiser: I also have seen the Orange Pi 3 reference somewhere in the forum and did not invent it myself, anyway, the name does not matter much :-)
<tkaiser>
ssvb: Yes, was announced as OPi 3 also with a picture of a pre-production sample a few weeks ago
<NiteHawk>
ssvb: nice work with the SPI!
<TheLinuxBug>
KotCzarny: so you have an Orange Pi Plus 2E or one is coming?
<KotCzarny>
coming
<TheLinuxBug>
KotCzarny: I assume support is in line with other H3 board, still 3.x with mainline coming from the awesome folks here, evetually?
<tkaiser>
TheLinuxBug: Sure
<TheLinuxBug>
Hmm cause I was considering another Odrid C2 or maybe one of those, peaked my interest with the eMMc coming included in that price tag along with 2GB memory
<KotCzarny>
TheLinuxBug: really, all opi boards are roughly the same, with som options added or removed
<tkaiser>
TheLinuxBug: And all the missing pieces are already there. You just have to mix up stuff from Opi PC and Plus to get USB + GbE Ethernet working.
<tkaiser>
TheLinuxBug: The 16GB eMMC used on OPi Plus 2 is quite fast. I hope they use the same on OPi Plus 2E.
<apritzel>
mripard: 128B is the one you want (128Mbit)
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<ssvb>
the price is an order of magnitude higher than aliexpress bulk SPI flash chip prices, but that's probably fine for retail :-)
<mripard>
awesome, thanks :)
<ssvb>
and the module has some pull up resistors too
<jrg>
ok
<jrg>
i ordered the opi p2e
<jrg>
by the time i get it. the opi plus 10 will be out heh
<tkaiser>
jrg: All my orders from Xunlong arrived within 6 to 14 days in germany (but all of them below $22 VAT redemption)
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<tkaiser>
jrg: And at least in the EU you can try to get an EORI number -- http://www.eori.eu -- which might speed up customs a lot
<IgorPec>
2e emmc speed is on the level of Opi+2m
<KotCzarny>
what is opi+2m ?
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: The 128 bit version :P
<IgorPec>
:)
<KotCzarny>
o.O
<KotCzarny>
so no ram, only cmos? :P
<tkaiser>
IgorPec: On +2E also 8189FTV instead of ETV?
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<IgorPec>
don't know, have to boot the board
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<IgorPec>
there is FTV on the chip
<KotCzarny>
maybe its just bugfix version
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<tkaiser>
IgorPec: Then I still wonder whether the small fex fix jernej mentioned helps (but according to the comments I don't believe so)
<jrg>
lol
<jrg>
tkaiser: shipping to Chicago was US$6
<jrg>
tax didn't seem like it was there. our tax system is weird for international orders. we don't have a national sales tax. it is usually done by states, county, municipal
<MoeIcenowy>
as a Chinese at Guangzhou I can buy development boards very fastly :-)
<MoeIcenowy>
usually arrives on the next morning :-)
<KotCzarny>
plz send
<KotCzarny>
;)
<jrg>
lol
<jrg>
do you knock on the factory gate?
<MoeIcenowy>
jrg: factory gate?
<MoeIcenowy>
I've never go to the factory
<MoeIcenowy>
however I used to buy electronic things at Huaqiang North :-)
<MoeIcenowy>
a RMB460 1024x768 IPS A33-based tablet very similar to iPad...
<jrg>
i always wondered about that. do the chinese consume these electronics as much as the rest of the world. if so how much are they in comparison to $US
<jrg>
too bad the banana pi was a bad buy. it looked promising on paper
<MoeIcenowy>
jrg: Chinese do consumes very many electronics
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<MoeIcenowy>
and in China Allwinner tablets costs very cheaper than in other country!
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<jrg>
ive only been to singapore in asia. they had huge electronic outlets. too bad i would have difficulty taking more with ne
<jrg>
me
<MoeIcenowy>
my Q8-formated A33 tablet cost me only RMB199 = $30
<jrg>
wow. that would be a lot more here.
<MoeIcenowy>
and I get a 7" LCD (very bad TFT), a touchscreen (GSL1680 the disaster chip), wifi (ESP8089 also a disaster) and A33
<MoeIcenowy>
a chip suitable to run mainline kernel
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<MoeIcenowy>
oh RMB 199 contains the shipping cost
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<MoeIcenowy>
the price is shipping-included
<jrg>
the disaster chip lol
<jrg>
reminding me of my banana pi :)
<MoeIcenowy>
but I have now successfully driven the chips!
<MoeIcenowy>
mainline
<buZz>
ESP8089 a disaster? why
<buZz>
i saw 40+mbps throughput
<buZz>
isnt that sufficient?
<MoeIcenowy>
buZz: driver
<MoeIcenowy>
the performance is ok
<buZz>
MoeIcenowy: yeah its not upstream yet
<buZz>
someone should clean it up :P
<MoeIcenowy>
buZz: maybe I should try :-)
<buZz>
i have faith in you \o
<buZz>
:)
<buZz>
(also, i dont feel like doing it, hehe)
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<MoeIcenowy>
and the driver needs the mmc slot to be configured as "broken-cd" instead of "non-removable" in dt
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<jrg>
well after i get this orange pi it will be fun to try building the mainline stuff for it. at least then i can understand how soc work for such things
<buZz>
:)
<buZz>
jrg: 'a lot worse'
<buZz>
:D
<MoeIcenowy>
to be honest I want a HiKey/Dragonboard410c now...
<buZz>
yeah me too
<buZz>
seems to be the only decent armv8 boards around
<buZz>
well, the 96boards stuff
<apritzel>
buZz: HiKey? decent?
<buZz>
from onlook, yeah, 0 experience thusfar
<wens>
MoeIcenowy: the whole chip needing a reset seems weird... other chips seem to be able to just reset the core through some controls and pick up
<apritzel>
buZz: rest assured, it's pretty broken, also not really supported mainline
<MoeIcenowy>
don't have faith on you
<jrg>
the wike for opi plus2 not the same as 2e?
<MoeIcenowy>
I'm now in depression for personal reason
<MoeIcenowy>
wens: yes. it's a MCU.
<tkaiser>
jrg: Nope
<buZz>
apritzel: not really isnt really not
<buZz>
:)
<tkaiser>
jrg: 2e exposes all USB host ports and uses no internal USB hub and no crappy USB-to-SATA bridge
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<wens>
MoeIcenowy: so are the broadcom chips, you don't see them needing broken-cd
<MoeIcenowy>
wens: ...
<MoeIcenowy>
esp is really weird
<wens>
maybe they were just bad at writing the driver
<wens>
who knows
<MoeIcenowy>
the code is also considered to be used on non-standard ugly BSPs
<MoeIcenowy>
for example sunxi lichee :-)
<MoeIcenowy>
I won't get ashamed to criticize lichee SDK :-)
<KotCzarny>
jrg, no device yet, only igor has dev sample
<tkaiser>
jrg: No user of opi +2e so far --> no wiki page
<KotCzarny>
also, its almost the same as opi+2
<jrg>
ah ok
<MoeIcenowy>
maybe I can purchase one and get soon...
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: Nope, OPi Plus 2 is a crappy board
<MoeIcenowy>
but I'm very poor now
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<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: Regarding similarities (adjusting fex / device tree stuff): Take OPi PC and replace Ethernet with GbE from Plus and you're done. Plus 2 is like Plus with USB hub and USB-to-SATA bridge
<KotCzarny>
umkay
<jrg>
orangepi.org doesnt have specs on the +2e either?
<KotCzarny>
jrg, disreagard anything other than linux-sunxi wiki
<tkaiser>
jrg: Xunlong hasn't provided anything so far in 2016, that's all community stuff. Even figuring out how the different voltage regulator on One/Lite works.
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<KotCzarny>
tkaiser, well, they provided hardware ;)
<mripard>
KotCzarny: MLC NANDs have read disturbance as well
<mripard>
so it might get corrupt only by reading it
<KotCzarny>
mripard, how many reads disturb the nand enough to introduce corruption?
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<mripard>
KotCzarny: I don't really know, but I already experienced an SPL getting corrupt because of it
<mripard>
so you definitely want redundancy
<KotCzarny>
o.O
<jrg>
by bpi is still dead at hone
<KotCzarny>
jrg: plug nice usb-serial to see the last words next time?
<jrg>
i will look at it in a bit
<jrg>
couple of hours
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<tkaiser>
jrg: If you want to have a laugh. Here you can see how OS images for your BPi M3 are created: http://forum.banana-pi.org/t/remix-os-on-m3-working/1734 (user find old RemixOS ROM for Onda tablet, shows it in forum, then @sinovoip will copy it provide it as download on baidu and google drive and create the impression that an update with RemixOS 2.0 will follow soon)
<lennyraposo>
hillarious
<lvrp16>
lolol
<MoeIcenowy>
cleaning up esp8089 code...
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<KotCzarny>
:)
<KotCzarny>
quality process
<MoeIcenowy>
esp8089 uses xtensa core...
<MoeIcenowy>
It will be possible (but only possible) to provide fully open-source firmware...
<lennyraposo>
Must be cheapest kind of RnD KotCzarny
<KotCzarny>
cheapest will when they just link to user hosted images and pretend they are official
<KotCzarny>
;)
<MoeIcenowy>
esp8089 have written its own request_firmware...
<MoeIcenowy>
terrible
<MoeIcenowy>
but it's standard request_firmware compatilable
<MoeIcenowy>
how to deal with the firmwares' license...
<MoeIcenowy>
They are included in said-to-be-GPL kernel trees as blobs
<MoeIcenowy>
@wens
<lvrp16>
sbc botnet any1?
<MoeIcenowy>
and according to the datasheet, the CPU of esp8089 is xtensa
<MoeIcenowy>
oh I repeated this sentence... please forgive my forgetness
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<jrg>
tkaiser: lol
<jrg>
maybe it is some guy in his basement making this stuff
<jrg>
KotCzarny: the fact they are hosting it on google drive...
<jrg>
why not just host the files on a bpi server? :)
<KotCzarny>
bpi-r1 works nicely for my home server and needs
<jelle>
hrrm
<jelle>
how often is the i2c address in the android sdk driver correct?
<jelle>
working on the mxc6202x accel btw
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<jrg>
KotCzarny: mount.cifs broken for me.
<jrg>
butni gave up on that. must just be a weird cifsd thing.
<jrg>
for arm maybe.
<KotCzarny>
jrg, recompile yourself?
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<mripard>
codekipper: ok, found why I didn't have any sound
<mripard>
I don't have anything out on the pins
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<jrg>
is that even possible? heh
<jrg>
i can see it for the pi.. but not sure if you can really build a new kernel for the m3
<jrg>
at least not without pulling hair out
<jrg>
oh you mean cifsd.. yeah i guess i can try later. i just got home. checking to figure out what went wrong wth the bpi
<TheLinuxBug>
(doh) well, I broke down and got my first orange Pi product, just ordered a 2E and power adapter...
<TheLinuxBug>
it was calling my name after our conversation
<TheLinuxBug>
so we will see what that is like in what, 20 days :p
<TheLinuxBug>
Hopefully my C.H.I.P. arrives before then too
<jrg>
TheLinuxBug: lol. so did i today
<TheLinuxBug>
arn't they supposed to start shipping soon?
<jrg>
did you find a case for it?
<TheLinuxBug>
No
<TheLinuxBug>
I didn't see a case
<TheLinuxBug>
I figure I would make one out of something ;p
<jrg>
i didn't either
<TheLinuxBug>
half the fun
<jrg>
yah me too
<jrg>
figure i'll just use a bpi case without the sides
<TheLinuxBug>
but I have so much stuff to play with just need to start putting stuff together
<TheLinuxBug>
Have 2xA10, 1xRPi2, 1xRPi3, Ordoid C2 just sitting here
<TheLinuxBug>
have a BPi and and PcDuino Nano Lite running one as media other as a server
<TheLinuxBug>
then I have this OPi2E coming now
<jrg>
bpi acting stupid again
<TheLinuxBug>
mines been pretty reliably
<jrg>
75C?!
<jrg>
that's with a heatsink on it lol
<TheLinuxBug>
I noticed without heatsync/passive cooling if left on pasue rendering a 720/1080p video/audio for about 10 minutes the whole things freeze (android) and needs restarted
<TheLinuxBug>
but as a server, which I used the BPi for before I replaced with pcDuino
<jrg>
that's what i'm attempting to do now
<TheLinuxBug>
the A20 has been rock solid
<TheLinuxBug>
I used the Bpi as media because I had an old tube tv with RCA input
<TheLinuxBug>
if I was gonna go for 8 core, I would probably get an XU4
<TheLinuxBug>
wasn't very excited about the M3 when I looked at it before
<TheLinuxBug>
honestly I almost spent the extra money on the Orange Pi Plus 2 with sata again and then remembered how useless it was and how nice it would be to have the extra emmc
<TheLinuxBug>
;p
<jrg>
well.. i just bought the orange pi plus 2e today
<jrg>
so hopefully it arrives some time this century
<jrg>
i know there is a screen that pops up when you login that shows the temp. i wonder where htat's coming from
<willmore>
TheLinuxBug, 3d print a case!
<jrg>
i think later i'm going to go ahead and just wipe my freenas box and put fbsd on it
<jrg>
maybe i'll have better luck with things that way instead of relying on freenas to serve files to these pis
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<TheLinuxBug>
willmore: I find more fun in creating cases out of old stuff, I made a case for my A10 cubieboard out of a 5 way vga switch box
<TheLinuxBug>
its actually pretty cool
<TheLinuxBug>
holds a 2.5" sata and the cubie in there nicely
<willmore>
LOL.
<jrg>
i just realized the bpi doesn't start up if i have a usb powered hdd hooked up to it
<TheLinuxBug>
aha probably cause you don't have a poowerful enough power source
<jrg>
2.5A?
<TheLinuxBug>
may need more in some cases
<jrg>
might as well run an avoton heh.. too bad they're more expensive
<TheLinuxBug>
depends on the requirements of the drive
<jrg>
i wish they made avotons in smaller packages
<TheLinuxBug>
actually I saw an almost idea x86 board the otherday on newegg
<TheLinuxBug>
that I considered
<TheLinuxBug>
they had it 35$ with 15$ MIR
<jrg>
the smallest x86 i can recall is the via stuff
<TheLinuxBug>
it was the SoC amd chip that was 2x1ghz
<TheLinuxBug>
had 2 sata
<TheLinuxBug>
had hdmi and such
<TheLinuxBug>
wasn't bad
<jrg>
the pico itx stuff
<TheLinuxBug>
but you had to spend ~30$ more on ram
<TheLinuxBug>
and you had to have ATX power supply
<TheLinuxBug>
so instead of maybe 5W
<TheLinuxBug>
your looking more like 15W
<TheLinuxBug>
i will look for it again
<jrg>
well.. intel has those tiny mobile cpus they're working on don't they?