<longsleep>
tkaiser: so tl gave feedback on the heatsink, he claims that the thermal pad is high quality and will melt to fill the gaps (i can confirm the melting).
<longsleep>
tkaiser: and he also confirmed that they did not make the thing higher so shields still can be mounted
<KotCzarny>
they should offer higher one as an option
<longsleep>
KotCzarny: yeah, well lets have them offer at least one first :)
<KotCzarny>
i wonder how many would mount ANY shield
<KotCzarny>
0.01% ?
<longsleep>
tkaiser: also TL gave some light on the differences of the PCB heat dissipation - there is copper inside the Pine64 PCB to help with that and the board was designed by him and was made intentionally bigger so these shields can sit on top of it
<longsleep>
KotCzarny: yes i completely agree
<longsleep>
What shields are there anyways
<KotCzarny>
most likely rpi ones
<KotCzarny>
maybe some touchscreens? (does pine64 have dsi ?)
<longsleep>
KotCzarny: yes, but the touch screen is 7" and thus much larger
<longsleep>
rpi ones ok ..
<longsleep>
anyhow it stands that this heatsink does not prevent the board from overheating. If the heatsink has reachted 45*C the board will start to throttle as the SoC internal sensor is around 80*C
<KotCzarny>
maybe additional shield would dissipate some of the heat too
<longsleep>
if they make a 'fan shield'
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<KotCzarny>
:)
<KotCzarny>
not a bad idea
<KotCzarny>
or peltier shield
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<tkaiser>
longsleep: Mounted an ultra cheap heatsink from a 'Banana Pi set' on A64. When running cpuburn-a53 SoC temp is above 94C and cpufreq between 600 and 720 MHz. So the official heatsink performs way better.
<tkaiser>
When I tested for apritzel some time ago without heatsink it was also at 600 MHz. So just another example of 'buy cheap, buy twice' I guess regarding this heatsink set ;)
<tkaiser>
Right now Pine64 is doing something useful (FEL booting OPi Plus 2E to run lima-memtester)
<tkaiser>
Regarding Wiki pages. I don't think we should use one page for Orange Pi Plus 2 and 2E since they are pretty different. Plus 2 features internal USB hub and the USB-to-SATA bridge and also connectors/buttons all have different locations (eg. FEL button)
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<dieterd>
figured out that brother printer scanning not working, because of older qemu version.
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<longsleep>
tkaiser: i did some math, and the heat sink from Pine64 unter constant load gives 2.5 to 3 percent performance gain with cpuminer workload.
<tkaiser>
10 degrees less and regarding performance (cpuminer) not even 4% less
<longsleep>
tkaiser: in idle mode, the heat sink heats up to 30*C quickly while the SoC shows around 36*C
<tkaiser>
longsleep: The heatsink will help especially people that love to cram tiny enclosures with stuff like Pine64
<tkaiser>
Something I didn't expected in the past. But even without any airflow a heatsink in a small enclosure helps a lot
<longsleep>
tkaiser: yes but it will heat up to 45*C in pretty much any workload and then the SoC will start to reach the 80*C trip point
<tkaiser>
longsleep: With your 4 Pine64 we could do some nice tests in case you've another heatsink: 2 Pine64 in small cardboard boxes (one with, one without heatsink) and the other two in the open. And then running some workloads and graph them together
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<longsleep>
tkaiser: i have only 2 available for testing - what other heat sink?
<KotCzarny>
cheap one maybe
<KotCzarny>
i would like to see results with low rpm fan too
<tkaiser>
longsleep: I meant comparing enclosure and non-enclosure situation with 2 boards each. And two of the boards wearing the Pine64 heatsinks (one inside the enclosure, the other outside). Just to get an idea how thermal readings might differ then
<KotCzarny>
just minimal to make air move, not enough to make a sound
<longsleep>
tkaiser: i think i will not have the time to do that kind of testing
<KotCzarny>
ie. running 12v fan on 5v
<longsleep>
KotCzarny: i could do that, but how does a user mount such a fan
<longsleep>
i mean i will be large
<tkaiser>
longsleep: Sure, would be an excercise for the Pine64 folks.
<KotCzarny>
40x40mm wouldnt fit?
<tkaiser>
40x40 is always annoying unless you completely cut the power ;)
<KotCzarny>
as for mounting, plastic straps? just enough to keep it in place
<KotCzarny>
its only for test now, to see if it makes noticable difference
<KotCzarny>
with 2 configs, pushing air on the soc and pulling away
<KotCzarny>
as for the convection, it makes 1-2C difference
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: Yeah, in other words: No difference at all. :)
<KotCzarny>
and your pipe was mounted perpendicular
<longsleep>
i am currently running a cpuburn-a53
<KotCzarny>
and i was wondering now in the regular fan mount
<longsleep>
the heat sink now has heated to 52*C and the SoC starts to reach cooling state 5 sometimes now
<longsleep>
(after around 10 minutes)
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: I did these tests also (with Banana Pi M3, octa-core). Just blowing air around isn't enough. You need a lot of air directly over the heatsink's surface. Then it helps
<KotCzarny>
uhum
<KotCzarny>
then heatsink + fan is the only option
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: No, using Linpack in an automated fashion und undervolting is the way to go ;)
<longsleep>
KotCzarny: nope :/
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser, that too
<tkaiser>
Since Linpack can be used to detect undervoltage situations.
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<jrg>
tkaiser: did you try an oil rig for the bpi m3?
<longsleep>
KotCzarny: sucking air away from the heatsink seems to be more efficient than blowing to it
<longsleep>
KotCzarny: but both ways having a large heatsink running slow at 5V helps to stay at cooling state 2 for cpuburn-a53
<tkaiser>
jrg: Nope, heatsink + fan are enough. But since you said you can not solder you should NOT think about improving heat dissipation since undervoltage/undercurrent are still your problem No 1 due to crappy Micro USB for DC-IN on BPi M3
<jrg>
lol
<jrg>
when i get the orange pi i will practice soldering
<KotCzarny>
longsleep: so even slow moving fan helps immensely? what is the performance gain?
<jrg>
tkaiser: sure but curious about people who use a barrel connector with 5V/3A
<tkaiser>
jrg: Read the wiki page. If you use heatsink + fan and only some peripherals you can't power BPi M3 through Micro USB anyway since consumption is too high especially when host powered peripherals are used. Same with Pine64 for example.
<longsleep>
KotCzarny: currently using cpuburn-a53 no numbers yet, but the heatsink seems to max out at 36*C with steady air flow vs 55*C without (cpuburn-a53) so thats a huge improvment
<KotCzarny>
what fan did you use?
<KotCzarny>
is it noisy?
<longsleep>
no noise
<longsleep>
its a 120mm fan running at 5V :)
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: When you use controlled airflow (eg using cardboard stripes to create a bottleneck just over the heatsink's surface) then you can use one or two large fans for a couple of boards.
<KotCzarny>
:)
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<longsleep>
tkaiser: yeah a fan with the Pine64 heatsink seems to work really good, i man 36*C vs 55*C heatsink temperature
<longsleep>
+e
<longsleep>
now lets try cpuminer to get the performance gain in percent
<longsleep>
heatsink temp is now down to 24*C SoC at 33*C
<KotCzarny>
if you have second pine64 without the heatsinks you might try that fan there too
<longsleep>
all with 120mm fan at 5V though
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<ssvb>
longsleep: you still can try a 32-bit build of cpuminer with neon enabled (just build it in a 32-bit chroot), that would be a more heavy and more realistic workload
<ssvb>
longsleep, tkaiser: a 64-bit build of cpuminer is just a compiler generated code without hand optimized assembly, so it is not very representative
<longsleep>
ssvb: i will try that next
<longsleep>
ssvb: anyhow, with a fan there is no throttling at all with cpuminer 64bit
<longsleep>
SoC is at around 65*C
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<longsleep>
and heatsink at around 30*C
<KotCzarny>
what is the performance gain?
<longsleep>
KotCzarny: around 9%
<KotCzarny>
still not that much
<KotCzarny>
clock it higher!
<longsleep>
heh yes, with fan and heatsink it could clock higher
<KotCzarny>
also, you can compare 32bit ver against the one you are using
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser: does that opi+2e had heatsink attached or it was yours?
<KotCzarny>
also, why the heck ir port is not on the size
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<jrg>
tkaiser: yah i read that a while ago.. had to drop mine down to 1.6GHz
<jrg>
it becomes unstable at 1.8
<jrg>
ive been running bitcoind on it for 2 days now tho at 1.6 it seems ok albeit after dropping 4 cores because of heat issues
<jrg>
i might see if i can drop it lower to keep all 8 cores going at some point
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: That's my heatsink. I use the same type on all H3 boards to be able to compare.
<tkaiser>
ssvb: Thx for the reminder, will try that also next (32-bit cpuminer on Pine64). But ATM Pine64 is busy with OPi Plus 2E (lima-memtester, currently trying 744 MHz since 672 and 696 MHz passed)
<tkaiser>
jrg: undervoltage/undercurrent and temperature are somewhat related. So unless you are not able to fix DC-IN issue forget about improving heat dissipation (I repeated that now the 3rd or already the 5th time?)
<ssvb>
apritzel: seems like I have found what is causing SRAM corruption
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<KotCzarny>
jrg: do you have any usb meter? (to see how much V,A it sucks)
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<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: Most USB meters are pretty useless since they're used on the wrong end of the cable (type A receptacle)
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser, still, might be able to detect if voltage drops below 4.5
<tkaiser>
Only an USB meter with Micro USB receptacle would help since this can show undervoltage due to cable resistance
<KotCzarny>
or to see that its >1.5A
<KotCzarny>
use short cable?
<ssvb>
tkaiser: USB meters still work fine for measuring the current draw, the voltage drop is another story
<KotCzarny>
ssvb, not all chargers are made equal
<KotCzarny>
crappy ones can drop voltage greatly under load
<KotCzarny>
not to mention noise
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<ssvb>
KotCzarny: yes, and you can't measure the voltage drop introduced by the USB cable with USB meters
<KotCzarny>
ssvb, but if it is 4.6 before the cable, you know its evel less after it
<KotCzarny>
*even
<ssvb>
the PSU itself may drop voltage too, but it is only a part of the whole picture
<ssvb>
exactly
<jrg>
KotCzarny: it's ok. if it's stable at 1.6GHz then that's fine
<KotCzarny>
jrg, are you considering connecting any usb device?
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<jrg>
KotCzarny: no. it's just standalone
<jrg>
and headless
<jrg>
so just power and network cable
<jrg>
i'm using it as a mini-server
<KotCzarny>
also, you might consider disabling display device, so it wont eat cpu/power
<KotCzarny>
(i assume you use 3.x kernel)
<jrg>
KotCzarny: i didn't even know you could do that
<KotCzarny>
sure, in .fex
<jrg>
it's what tkaiser would call "the cappy kernel" heh
<jrg>
Linux bpi 3.4.39-BPI-M3-Kernel #2 SMP PREEMPT Wed Mar 9 18:48:03 CET 2016 armv7l GNU/Linux
<KotCzarny>
yup, legacy
<jrg>
*crappy
<KotCzarny>
for starters set disp_init_enable and lcd_used to 0
<KotCzarny>
same for csi_used
<KotCzarny>
and hdmi_used
<jrg>
let me take a look
<KotCzarny>
maybe even mali_used
<jrg>
seems like the img that tkaiser made doesn't have the bpi fex files on it
<jrg>
i'll have to find the fex for it
<KotCzarny>
does it have .bin file?
<jrg>
oh... yes heh... bin2fex?
<KotCzarny>
yup
<jrg>
oh wait
<jrg>
no it doesn't. hm.
<jrg>
wtf? the sino one had the script.bin and the fex
<jrg>
this one doesn't
<KotCzarny>
then its probably embedded somewhere
<jrg>
bootcode.bin
<jrg>
is the only bin on mmcblk0p1
<KotCzarny>
i didnt play with bpi-m3, so dont know what and how it uses
<jrg>
KotCzarny: could be that tkaiser used an older img that didn't support script.bin
<jrg>
i think that was fixed later
<KotCzarny>
ask him then where and how
<jrg>
"fixed"
<KotCzarny>
because it uses fex/bin just might load it different
<jrg>
the sino imgs had script.bin on mmcblk0p1 that you had to mount
<jrg>
along with config.fex to edit
<jrg>
but i used tkaiser's img because it had an auto-resize and auto user creation
<jrg>
no big deal. if it stays stable the way it is that's fine. i just need something that runs decent
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<jrg>
what sucks tho is if i want to change it... i'd have to start from scratch heh
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<longsleep>
KotCzarny: https://ibin.co/2ipIf9bPCYbt.png shows the effect of the fan pretty nice (shows what happens if the fan is removed)
<longsleep>
btw if someone wants to reproduce my setup, the fan i use is a
<longsleep>
Klicken, um das Bild zu vergrößern
<longsleep>
Ähnlichen Artikel verkaufen? Selbst verkaufen
<longsleep>
LianLi Li121225SL-4
<longsleep>
err
<KotCzarny>
:)
<tkaiser>
Also lima-memtester archive updated (can be used with Plus 2/2E and also Lite). Link is there
<KotCzarny>
you got pretty nice behaving memory chips
<KotCzarny>
almost 10% OC
<longsleep>
tkaiser: does it come with that sink on your picture?
<tkaiser>
jrg: I told you already twice here in the chat where to look for script.bin on this image.
<tkaiser>
longsleep: Nope, that's my own
<tkaiser>
But with this heatsink and cpuminer the board stays at 1296 MHz. Without heatsink switching between 1200/1296 MHz. Must be the large PCB that helps with heat dissipation
<longsleep>
they probably have added extra copper inside
<tkaiser>
jrg: Just look into the thread and be prepared that most if not all of the junk present on this first partition won't help with M3
* jonkerj
is trying to run mainline on his opi+, can anyone hint me how to get ethernet (emac/ephy) working?
<jernej>
tkaiser: I received BPi M3 sample from Sinovoip. Do you have any WIP branch for that?
<tkaiser>
jernej: LOL
<jrg>
tkaiser: yah seems that way but i'm not sure if the img you used actually supports script.bin.. thought that came later
<jonkerj>
if I use Hans' sunxi-wip branch, kernel complains about the phy
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<tkaiser>
jernej: wens/vishnup might have the most improved stuff in their repos
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<jonkerj>
I believe torvalds mainline does not include the DTS nor driver for emac/ephy yet
<jernej>
tkaiser: Tnx, will take a look
<tkaiser>
jrg: Please start to read carefully through the thread in the moronic forum. *Everything* is outlined there and there's no need to repeat the same stuff again and again.
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<jrg>
ok. i'll try lol
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<jrg>
tkaiser: ah ok. i missed the part that was lower in the forum.. i'll try doing it all now. thanks
<jrg>
i'm checking out the M3 files now
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<wens>
tkaiser: no, i've not redone the a83t emac branch
<wens>
the old one probably still works
<jrg>
ah neat. seems like i can do this. but for now i'll leave it alone until the opi shows up and use the bpi as the testbed
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<tkaiser>
Interesting: Orange Pi Lite fails already at 672MHz when testing DRAM
<wens>
Copyright 2015 Hans de Goede <hdegoede@redhat.com>
<wens>
which is clearly not you
<luoyi>
I modify this file based on another file which is hdegoede's
<luoyi>
how can I handle this situation ?
<wens>
we also tend not to enable all the uarts, i2c controllers, spi on the general gpio headers
<wens>
you say Copyright 2016 _you_, then somewhere below, based on _FILENAME_ _copyright_line_from_original_file_
<luoyi>
why we don't enable all the gpio function by default ?
<wens>
because it's generic, and someone could use it for something else
<wens>
we don't make the decision for them
<luoyi>
but arch/arm/boot/dts/sun7i-a20-bananapi.dts the default value for uart3/7 is also enabled
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<wens>
might have slipped through
<NiteHawk>
one of those is on dedicated pins (i.e. not the raspi-compatible GPIO header). for the other, you somewhat got a point
<wens>
most boards have uart0 on dedicated pins
<wens>
marked "debug uart"
<NiteHawk>
yes, but even not counting those (J11), the bpi has another pair on the 8-pin header J12 - plus the "usual" one on GPIO (CON3)
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<luoyi>
so on bpi, we can only enable the uart0 on default .
<luoyi>
does this right ?
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<NiteHawk>
luoyi: obviously the current .dts handles it differently - but to my understanding, yes, thats how it should be handled according to "official" policy. expose a maximum of "neutral" (= freely available) GPIO pins
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<luoyi>
OK. I'll modify my dts file according to this guideline.
<luoyi>
but because we didn't have overylay support, so if the user want this function workable, they need to re-copmile the whole dtb file.
<luoyi>
and in current situation, he need to download the whole linux source, setup the cross compile env, and then he can make dtbs
<NiteHawk>
isn't .dtb platform-agnostic? afaik there's a standalone dtc
<longsleep>
yeah - apt-get install device-tree-compiler on ubuntu and probably on debian as well
<NiteHawk>
"emerge dtc" on gentoo
<luoyi>
I've tried this way before. and it's a painful process. all variable are in the 0/1 format. can't get these magic number's mean easily.
<luoyi>
I'm a arch user. I can easily pacman -S dtc. it's not a problem
<luoyi>
I think the problem is we didn't have a standalone devicetree source tree.
<longsleep>
well, thats the way to go - if its to hard to do manually write a small python script dealing with the conversion
<longsleep>
mhm is there a out of kernel tree for any board?
<longsleep>
and i think the decompiled tree is no problem to deal with, after all i am doing it for the Pine64 - its not that nice but one can handle it
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<luoyi>
yes. I realize the situation now. so rpi handle this problem with overlay support. it's far more user-friendly to the end-user.
<longsleep>
luoyi: well dt overlay has landed in 3.14 afaik
<wens>
afaik not the accompanying dtc changes, nor does u-boot support it
<luoyi>
anyway, I'll change the dts file according to the sunxi community's guideline.
<longsleep>
no clue, i have to deal with Kernel 3.10 and have not looked into it
<luoyi>
longsleep: I'm using 4.6.0 now, does it possible for we to have overlay support in this version ?
<longsleep>
luoyi: sure
<luoyi>
longsleep: well, does there exists any text about overlay support in the wiki? I've just searched overlay in the wiki, and doesn't find some useful infomation.
<longsleep>
luoyi: no idea if anyone with a sunxi board has bothered to look into overlay device tree support
<wens>
the chip will have it
<luoyi>
longsleep: OK. I know your mean. it's a todo function, not a ready function.
<longsleep>
luoyi: its well in use for other boards, check the beaglebone black as example
<NiteHawk>
we find need to get those darned things working at all, then we'll care about adding cherries on top :D
<WB6ALX>
KotCzarny, clearly not, as I wouldn't be asking otherwise :)
<WB6ALX>
thanks
<KotCzarny>
jrg: bpi-m3 was the board i wanted to buy initially too, but then i've fount linux-sunxi wiki, learned about pvr and other funnies, and just got me bpi-m1
<KotCzarny>
then opi-pc, then opi+2e
<jrg>
well.. i found the wiki after i already had the board lol
<KotCzarny>
*found
<jrg>
it's still not a bad board.. just the support from sino holds it back
<jrg>
so i can just go ahead and use it as a webserver or something of that nature and just do stuff with the orange pi instead
<KotCzarny>
i've decided to buy something that has actual software support
<jrg>
i'll just shove it in the corner doing work until something happens or not
<jrg>
with the lower clock speed tho it has been pretty stable at 1.6GHz x 8/4
<jrg>
and is far better than the raspberry pi1 i had heh
<KotCzarny>
add a fan and better dc-in, and it should be pretty stable
<jrg>
not worth it tbh
<jrg>
maybe after the opi arrives and i don't care if my lame soldering skills splatters solder all over the board
<KotCzarny>
if you ever want to have all 8 cores running loaded, then you will have to do it
<KotCzarny>
btw. can it be powered via pins?
<jrg>
yah... i'll try it out later but i will need something in the meantime
<jrg>
the gpio pins? not sure tbh
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<KotCzarny>
solder pads for LiPo battery
<KotCzarny>
another place for power maybe
<jrg>
i think newer models of the m3 have the barrel connector instead of usb
<jrg>
maybe there is a picture of that somewhere that shows where it is soldered
<jrg>
does the usb dc power in have to stay on once you put that barrel connection on?
<KotCzarny>
probably not
<jrg>
2 fairly large solder points even i might be able to manage that lol
<jrg>
then i'm guessing there is power out from gpio to connect a case fan
<KotCzarny>
but you might keep the microusb just in case
<jrg>
i was asking because i can probably solder it on then superglue the barrel connection to the board where the usb port is
<jrg>
so i can keep it in a case without a barrel connector hanging off of it
<jrg>
it's a bit odd tho. wonder why they'd even bother with the usb power in port at all instead of just putting a barrel connection on it to begin with
<jrg>
is the usb port $0.00001 cheaper?
<KotCzarny>
more convenient for some (clueless) users
<jrg>
until they try to run it under load like i did? :/
<KotCzarny>
yup
<KotCzarny>
it was ok in bpi-m1 times
<jrg>
you'd think the images they had on their google drive... would limit the freq
<KotCzarny>
but even then, connecting sata drive could reach 1.8A limit
<jrg>
i mean it's a pretty obvious issue.. although....
<jrg>
i guess you'd only run into it if you slapped a heatsink on it
<jrg>
since without one you wouldn't even get past 1.2GHz so it wouldn't matter
<jrg>
KotCzarny: i was running into issues with nothing attached
<jrg>
the power and a network cable.. it would randomly hang
<KotCzarny>
im talking about bpi-m1
<jrg>
oh
<jrg>
my rpi1 was able to run off any usb port heh
<KotCzarny>
sure, same was bpi-m1
<jrg>
i was considering running the rpi1 as a web server but i doubt it would work out too well.. probably have problems with msql
<KotCzarny>
grab -m1 cheap maybe
<jrg>
once my orange pi shows up i'll probably just wipe the bpi and start from scratch on it and see what i can do with it but for now i need it to just work
<jrg>
maybe i'll desolder the magical R2 too
<jrg>
so the ext wifi antenna works LOL
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<KotCzarny>
nice, 4.7-rc1
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