rellla changed the topic of #linux-sunxi to: Allwinner/sunxi /development discussion - did you try looking at our wiki? https://linux-sunxi.org - Don't ask to ask. Just ask and wait! - https://github.com/linux-sunxi/ - Logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/linux-sunxi - *only registered users can talk*
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<hedie> Hi there. I build a new SystemOnModule containing a Allwinner A13 chip. Now i have problems to let it boot uBoot correctly. Someone here familliar with the A13 and would like to contribute his or her knowledge?
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<hedie> The problem is, the A13 clocks the SD-Card for some time, then it stops and does nothing else... This can be repeated by reseting the chip
<hedie> the yellow signal is the CLK_N from the DDR-Chip
<mru> sounds like the boot rom is looking for an image and not finding one
<mru> how did you prepare u-boot and write it to the card?
<hedie> i thought exactly the same... I have tried differend things for preparing the Card.
<hedie> there is also a Board with an A13 chip and the same DDR Chip densitiy
<hedie> i tooked this image for testing
<hedie> not working. Also on UART0 no activity
<hedie> then i tried to build my own linux from sources. I did that also for an A10 board. This works without any problems for the A10 board
<mru> I'd build a u-boot with spl debug enabled
<hedie> ok i can do that
<hedie> do you mean with "early debug uart"?
<mru> whatever makes spl print stuff on the uart as early as possible
<hedie> yes i see what you mean. I will also try this. interesting is, that the clocks on the SD-Card always looks the same
<hedie> no difference between the images... Whether self build or from olimex
<hedie> VOltages (3.3V, 1.4V CPU and 1.5V DDR looking perfectly)
<hedie> I think there will be no UART output also during the early stage...
<mru> compare the signals to turning it on with a blank card inserted
<hedie> good idea!
<hedie> with no card there is not at least one clock... thats what i can say...
<hedie> now i will try it with a blank card
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<hedie> Ok
<hedie> just checked
<hedie> here is the result
<hedie> nearly identical with an empty card
<mru> do you have a working board you can compare with?
<hedie> unfortunately no A13 board
<hedie> only a A10 board
<mru> the rom is probably similar
<hedie> yes, as far as i know the A13 is a less complex A10
<hedie> Ok now also measured again CLK-N from the DDR memory
<hedie> now the image looks exactly the same as the one with the "loaded" SD-Card
<mru> my idea is to check if there's more sd card activity with a proper u-boot image
<hedie> i see.
<hedie> ok will test this right now
<mru> if so, you could tell if the rom is loading something that then breaks, or if it's giving up before that
<hedie> thanks so much for your help
<mru> no point spending time trying to debug spl if it isn't even being loaded
<hedie> yes, i had the same tougths
<hedie> i could also attach an logic analyzer and decode the SD-Protocol
<mru> probably more trouble than it's worth
<hedie> yes
<hedie> Ok
<hedie> looks very simmilar
<hedie> damn... tooked the wrong image
<hedie> but it looked very similar.
<hedie> Ok, here the correct picture
<hedie> one big difference...
<hedie> SCK is high in idle? at the A10 board..
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<hedie> ok found the first error.
<hedie> i had the uart on the wrong pins... shame on me
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<hedie> hi there. I try to bring up my new board. Actually its loading SPL with u-boot and shows me: DRAM 0MiB
<mru> well, that's some progress
<hedie> yes :)
<hedie> i have double checked my schematic twice and comapred with reference boards
<mru> my first guess here would be that you're not configuring the dram properly
<mru> or that there's a fault on the board
<hedie> the only thing i have different are the databits
<hedie> here is a picrue
<hedie> i have changed the bit position to be better routable. I always left B0 and B8 at the correct position since i read that some controllers/memories use the LSB for calibration purposes
<hedie> @mru i have read that there is an autodetect implemented for A10/13 in u-boot
<hedie> could it be better to "hard configure" these settings?
<hedie> actually i have configured the failsafe config:
<hedie> https://linux-sunxi.org/U-Boot#Failsafe_DRAM_settings.2C_based_on_standard_JEDEC_timings
<mru> no idea, never had to fight that fight
<hedie> +S:CONFIG_DRAM_CLK=360
<hedie> +S:CONFIG_DRAM_EMR1=4
<hedie> +S:CONFIG_DRAM_ZQ=123
<hedie> +S:CONFIG_DRAM_TIMINGS_DDR3_800E_1066G_1333J=y
<hedie> ok @mru but maybe you know how to set bus width etc. in the config?
<mru> can copy the config from some other board with the same ram chip?
<hedie> there is no board with exactly the same RAM chip... But with the same density
<hedie> already did that. same result...
<hedie> ------
<hedie> U-Boot SPL 2020.01-rc5-00030-gd35803a352 (Jan 11 2020 - 16:57:35 +0100)<\r><\n>
<hedie> ### ERROR ### Please RESET the board ###<\r><\n>
<hedie> DRAM: 0 MiB<\r><\n>
<hedie> ----
<mru> that means the ram size detection didn't find any usable ram
<hedie> yes
<hedie> maybe due to the fact i have scrumbled the databits
<checkpoint> hedie: have you checked Vref and other voltages to meet your particular DRAM datasheet ?
<hedie> therefore i would like to try to pre-define these settings
<hedie> oh.... @checkpoint
<hedie> i think you could be right...
<mru> I don't see how shuffling the data bits would make a difference
<hedie> just one second
<mru> have you inspected the board for manufacturing faults?
<mru> the bga is going to be bit tricky to check...
<checkpoint> exactly!
<hedie> i have this one:
<hedie> actually you are right, i have the (L) version wich means VDD 1.35V. I power it with 1.5V since the A13 dont support LPDDR.
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<hedie> but i tought it is a DDR3 chip. not an LPDDR
* checkpoint would start troubleshooting DRAM issues with xraying BGA chips
<hedie> But the DS says: Low Voltage (L): VDD and VDDQ = 1.35V + 0.1V, -0.067V - Backward compatible to 1.5V
<mru> checkpoint: that assumes you have an x-ray machine
<hedie> @mru yes, i have inspected the board many many times. also soldered two times a fresh BGA
<hedie> i have already soldered dozens of such BGAs for repair and never had much problems
<mru> then again, if you're developing boards with largeish bga chips, you should probably arrage access to such a machine
<hedie> but you are right... one can never be sure 100%
<checkpoint> mru: I sually visit a nearby dantist, seriesly!
<hedie> good idea :)
<mru> I was going to ask if medical xray devices are suitable
<checkpoint> mru: more or less, https://www.fabmicro.ru/pub/BGA96_x-ray.png
<mru> how does a typical dentist react if you show up asking to have random stuff xrayed?
<checkpoint> obvious defects are easily detectable
<hedie> nice
<hedie> i already had access to an x-ray machine in a previous job
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<checkpoint> mru: well, I went to a small nearby clinic and got aquainted with its owner, described him the problem... he was very curious to try it
<mru> I avoid using bga chips for personal projects
* checkpoint does the same, but DDR3 are available only in BGA packages nowadays
<mru> that's where all the nice SOMs come in handy
* checkpoint does not want to be dependant on a one-shot chinese SOM vendor
<mru> they're not all chinese
<mru> there are some nice swiss and german ones
<checkpoint> well, yes. but those add quite some $$ to the BOM
<hedie> good idea with the dentist
<mru> ever heard the saying that you get what you pay for?
<hedie> will look whether i will find one who is willing to help
<hedie> @checkpoint
<hedie> did you saw my board picture?
<checkpoint> hedie: seriosly, screen your BGAs to make sure all there are no soldering issues
<hedie> ok i will do that.
<hedie> But one more thing... If i check the clock lanes from the A13 there is not toggling at all
<hedie> i am curious about how u-boot want to probe the memory without activating the clock at all
<hedie> maybe it is still a configuration problem? and no soldering issue?
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<checkpoint> hedie: try some old (dated 2014) u-boot, you can get one from Olimex I think
<hedie> would you enable the OnDieTermination? (ODT)
<checkpoint> hedie: they have an SD card image for their A13 OlinuXino boards
<hedie> yes, i found them right now
<checkpoint> hedie: how many chips your have on your board ?
<hedie> just one DDR3 chip
<hedie> plus the CPU
<checkpoint> hedie: no termination is necessary for one chip as far as I know
<hedie> ok good
<hedie> then i will leave it disabled
<hedie> but i cant find any usefull knobs to turn inside of the "make menuconfig" of u-boot
<hedie> all i can set is CLK, ODT, EMR1 and EMR0 register, ZQ and timings
<hedie> no more
<checkpoint> try u-boot that works on other A13 boards to make sure your board is not faulty
<checkpoint> only after that get to tweaking u-boot options
<checkpoint> hedie: your picture is not openning from here
<checkpoint> oh... it just did
<hedie> does this work?
<hedie> ok good
<checkpoint> what was your average track length mismatch on DDR3 lanes ?
<hedie> none... i made it perfectly mathing expect for the CLK lane
<hedie> all others were +- 0.01mm
<hedie> clk was + 0.5mm
<hedie> i also used special stackup to match the impedance
* checkpoint would say it was a well done job if that worked ;)
<hedie> thank you
<hedie> i hope i will get it working
<hedie> this is my 2nd board with DDR3 memory
<hedie> the first one also did work after crossing out the CLK_N and CLK_P traces ^^
<checkpoint> my boards work well even with 2-3mm misalignment
<hedie> this time i double checked it
<hedie> oh nice. then i can take it more easy next time :)
<checkpoint> as long as you have just one DDR3 chip, yes
<hedie> have you more than one DDR3 on your board?
<checkpoint> no
<hedie> unfortunately olimex dont host very old images
<hedie> ftp://staging.olimex.com/Allwinner_Images/A13-OLinuXino/
<checkpoint> I been heard this from many ppl who do a lot of DDR3 tracing
<checkpoint> download any legacy 3.4 image
<hedie> ok i have downloaded A13_SOM_Debian_kernel_34_90_100kHz_I2C_WIFI_USB_LAN_X_touch_256MB_release_1.img
<hedie> now u-boot is older (2014.04)
<hedie> unfortunately, still the same:
<hedie> --------------
<hedie> U-Boot SPL 2014.04-10681-g78592f1 (Jun 06 2014 - 14:25:51)<\r><\n>
<hedie> DRAM: 0 MiB<\r><\n>
<hedie> ### ERROR ### Please RESET the board ###<\r><\n>
<hedie> Board: A13-OLinuXinoM<\r><\n>
<hedie> -----------
<hedie> then it must be something HW-Related
<hedie> but damn... what could it be
* checkpoint is nearly 100% sure that hedie's board is faulty
<checkpoint> check wireing
<checkpoint> then xray it
<hedie> i have checked the schematics at least 4 times... the schematic is identical to the olimex board in terms of wiring the DDR3 memory
<hedie> i must do xray...
<hedie> i could also buy the exactly same DDR3 chip as it was used on the olimex board
<checkpoint> MT41K256M16 worked well for me
<hedie> thanks
<checkpoint> have you checked soldering on A13 side of the thing ?
<hedie> yes, as good as possbile
<hedie> do you have any recommondation for a "cheap" microscope for at home?
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* checkpoint uses Andonstar ADSM302 HDMI
<hedie> are you happy with it?
<checkpoint> well... it's cheap :)
<hedie> good image quality and also high enough to do some soldering under the lens?
<checkpoint> quite usable
<hedie> ok thanks :)
<checkpoint> there are some videos on youtube
<hedie> wow the ADSM302 is around 180 USD
<hedie> for a chinese product, not that cheap...
<hedie> but the youtube videos looking fantastic
<hedie> i need this :)
<checkpoint> the one without HDMI option is a bit cheaper
<karlp> hedie: some other happy reviewers of adsm microscopes from ##stm32: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/microscopes.txt#L14
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