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<dwts>
Hey guys, I'm very new at this, and I'm not sure where to start from. I would like to write a cli tool in lisp (common lisp, probably I'll be using sbcl if that matters) to search results in urban dictionary. After some search I came across this: https://github.com/zdict/zdict/wiki/Urban-dictionary-API-documentation . Using curl and piping the output to jq (json parser) this gives me a pretty-printed json
<dwts>
output. How would I be able to mimic the curl part in lisp? Which libraries should I be looking at? any ideas?
<Bike>
hunchentoot does http.
<dwts>
once I get that curl part in lisp I suppose I should be searching for a json parser in lisp as well
<turkja>
Theoretical question: if i ever wanted to distribute this thing to, let's say windows users, how realistic that would be?
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<Ober>
pretty easy
<Ober>
ql works fine for me on windows0
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<Guest34211>
i don't follow, ql?
<Guest34211>
is that a package dist package for a windows common lisp?
<Guest34211>
to bad he left, that mitmcheck is rad af
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<turkja>
Guest34211: thanks.. now looking at it, i think it's a good example of why Lisp never conquered the world :) I mean for people who write Lisp programs, setup like that is natural, but for others... not so much :D
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<aeth>
turkja: If C never conquered the world, people would point to its flaws like lack of any safety and the terribly complex way to build things.
<turkja>
aeth: yeah, you are correct.. historically speaking, i see no reason why lisp is in such a marigin, but as of now, deployment is not very easy.
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<Bike>
morning.
<epony>
Good morning!
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<turkja>
morning!
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<turkja>
jmercouris: some was making a valid not in reddit/lisp: FF57 doesn't anymore have api's needed to run for example Conkeror (afaik - tested it, crash and burn), there definitely is a market for your browser project
<turkja>
s/valid not/valid note/
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<emaczen>
what stream is "t" bound to?
<Ober>
does NeXT work?
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<emaczen>
I think it is *standard-output*
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<beach>
emaczen: It is not bound to anything. The meaning of T as a stream depends on the context.
<beach>
emaczen: Look in the glossary for "stream designator".
<beach>
It says that T means *terminal-io*.
<beach>
Unfortunately, FORMAT does not respect that convention.
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<beach>
dmiles: SICL doesn't do well at all on ANSI tests, for the simple reason that SICL doesn't exist yet.
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<Josh_2>
Morning all
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<beach>
Hello Josh_2.
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<Josh_2>
Has anyone used adw-charting recently?
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<Josh_2>
I've loaded the library with quicklisp changed into it's package but the examples aren't working
<Josh_2>
I need a 2d graph plotting library, gotta make me some 2d line graphs
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<beach>
What form should the output take? A file? An interactive window?
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<Josh_2>
An image file, a jpeg or PNG preferably
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<Shinmera>
There's several libraries to interface with gnuplot
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<Josh_2>
I'll give clnuplot a go thanks Shinmera
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<Josh_2>
yaaahs vgplot seems to work like a charm
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<Xach>
I used aws-charting once or twice
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<jackdaniel>
Xach: adw-charting is a cool library using vecto, did you mean that?
<Xach>
yes, sorry. what Josh_2 mentioned earlier.
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<Josh_2>
So I'm getting an unhandled memory exception with this code https://pastebin.com/AtCdCTeH I don't understand why as what I'm doing the same thing in another program (sorta) and I'm not getting any errors
<Josh_2>
pastebin broke the formatting :/ still sad that paste.lisp isn't working anymore
<Josh_2>
That piece of code does exactly what I want it to do
<Bike>
i see.
<Bike>
probably i was mistaken about map-into then, sorry.
<Bike>
the obvious difference here is that you don't call modified-quicksort. does your bucket-sort manage to get through the first loop, where you do the vector-push-extends?
<Josh_2>
Yes it gets quite far
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<Bike>
if it gets through the loop, all it does after that is modified-quicksort, yes?
<Josh_2>
hmm maybe the quicksort breaks it
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<Josh_2>
One sec I'll just check
<Josh_2>
So I was looking in the wrong place this whole time *face-palm*
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<Josh_2>
The actual bucket sort works perfectly
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<Josh_2>
okay I think I know the problem so I should be good thanks for the help
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<pjb>
Josh_2: showing the source is not enough, you should also show what you did (exactly), [let's assume it's (bucket-sort #(1 3 4 1 2 3 5 9 2 3 6 8 9 3 0 3 4 7 8 4 5 7 0 9 6 4))], and what you got. What condition did you get?
<pjb>
Josh_2: also, you should provide sources that we can use, we don't have cl-quicksort.lisp, so we cannot run your code.
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<Josh_2>
I realized that after, and I added it into chat. I thought it was crashing because of the bucket-sort but it was because (modified-quicksort ..) sorts based on the car of a list
<pjb>
Josh_2: and important point to get asymptotic O(n) from vector-push-extend is to pass a value proportional to the length of vector as third argument!
<Josh_2>
Huh?
<pjb>
(vector-push-extend ele (elt buckets ele) (length (elt buckets ele)))
<Josh_2>
O okay I'll do that :)
<pfdietz>
Doubling the size at each extension means the amortized complexity of a v-p-e is O(1).
<pjb>
Well, with a minimum value, since you initialize them to 0. (vector-push-extend ele (elt buckets ele) (max 8 (length (elt buckets ele))))
<pjb>
Notice how to get a minimum value, you use max, and to get a maximum value you use min! :-)
<Josh_2>
Why did you use 8?
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<pjb>
It's better to use a value greater than 1 to avoid to many calls at the start. Memory allocation is often rounded up anyways.
<pjb>
Eg. often you cannot allocate blocks less than 16 bytes. Then if you allocate vectors less than 4 32-bit slots, memory will be left unused.
<Josh_2>
In this case, ele is just an integer, but the working version will be a cons like this (float . "string")
<pjb>
They're not stored in the vector! The vector only contains references to them.
<Josh_2>
Ahh okay
<pjb>
Each implementation has a small number of types that can be stored directly in vectors. You can know if a given type can be, using upgraded-array-element-type
<pjb>
so a vector of fixnum would contain the fixnums, but a vector of integer would keep pointers (unless they're fixnum).
<pjb>
(upgraded-array-element-type 'single-float) #| --> single-float |# when you optimize, it's may be an interesting trick to use vectors to store floating point numbers, to avoid boxing/unboxing them all the time.
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<Josh_2>
hmmm "when I optimize" maybe not today
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<Josh_2>
Well I got it all working when I modified bucket-sort to work with my own data.
<pfdietz>
Note that single-float is immediate (not a pointer) in 64 bit SBCL.
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<pjb>
Actually, this is why it can be used in an upgraded array.
<pjb>
(without using a special case internally).
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<Josh_2>
Well with bucket-sort having a word list that is 340k means it doesn't run out of stack
<Josh_2>
Can I manually make the stack larger?
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<Josh_2>
(declare (optimize (speed 3)..)) made it slower Q_Q
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<pjb>
Josh_2: it hapens.
<pjb>
+p
<Josh_2>
Yesterday my quicksort implementation was overflowing the stack, but today it is not.
<Josh_2>
Sometimes I just don't
<Josh_2>
I thought bucket sort might have been faster than quicksort because there's normally between 5-10 different values, but it's not.
<Shinmera>
Today's Saturday afternoon hack: some nice improvements to the event scheduler app. Also, I guess, reminder for the Sunday live stream: http://events.tymoon.eu/1
<Josh_2>
The bulk of speed eating is because of the jaro-winkler distance algorithm.
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<senecaty>
pjb: thanks
<Josh_2>
when I sort 60k random floats with bucket sort it takes 0.045 seconds. When sort 60k numbers that are computed before sorting it takes 9seconds
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<pjb>
Josh_2: you said originally that you had a small number of different values. You seem to be talking of different cases there.
<pjb>
a different situation.
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<Josh_2>
hmm what I mean is that the values are all within 0 and 1 and a large number of them are the same
<Josh_2>
all the time taken comes from computing the jaro-winkler distance, if I precomputed the value then sorted it would take much less time. I'm gonna try that actually
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<pjb>
Josh_2: the range doesn't matter. What matter is the discrete or continuous nature of it. There are an infinite number of real numbers between 0 and 1, there are only two integers!
<Josh_2>
aye, so what I did was (floor (* 10 i))
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<Josh_2>
Then put it in a bucket based on that result
<pjb>
You still need to sort the buckets.
<Josh_2>
Yep and I do
<Josh_2>
using quicksort
<Josh_2>
Turns out I was wrong about the jaro distance eating up all the speed, it is darn fast to compute 60k jaro distances
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<Josh_2>
So when I randomly assign values to my values that are sorted and they are single floats sorting takes less than a second. When the values are assigned using my jaro-winkler algorithm it takes 4 seconds to sort them. Even though in both cases the values are computed before I check the time it takes to sort.
<Josh_2>
They are both single floats.
<Bike>
jaro winkler returns a lot of identical values, you said?
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<Josh_2>
Yes
<Bike>
i thought basic quicksort didn't do so well with that
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<Josh_2>
I just applied (floor (* 10 (random 1.0))) and the quicksort is still really fast, even though there is a list 20k long with only 10 different values
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<senecaty>
How do I execute a returned lambda function?
<senecaty>
with an argument
<Josh_2>
(funcall lambda arg) I believe
<Shinmera>
You don't execute a function, you call it. And that happens with FUNctionCALL as Josh_2 mentioned.
<pjb>
paule32: when you break into the debugger, type ? RET and read sbcl user's manual.
<Bike>
check it out, with the power of logs i can see that paule32 was just as confused by an "invalid number of arguments" fucking last june
<pjb>
:-)
<pjb>
That's what happens when you try to write big software before having learn how to program.
<Bike>
it's like watching somebody try to push a "pull" door
<Bike>
except it's been over a year
<Bike>
and he's just pushing away
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<paule32>
now, i have:
<paule32>
Data: (Datei F10 FUNC1)
<paule32>
Data: (Öffnen Alt+O FUNC2)
<paule32>
a menu for "File" short-cut F10 and a pseudo function Func1
<paule32>
with sub menu "open"
<emaczen>
How can I capture the string of *standard-output*? What I have so far is (setf *standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream a-string-stream))
<paule32>
is it possible, to extract function-name by name
<emaczen>
But I would still have to call get-string-output-stream manually
<paule32>
the form is: (setup-menu1 menu1)
<paule32>
so is it possible to write: (setup-menu1) which means the line above?
<emaczen>
The only solution I can think of is to have a thread keep calling get-output-stream-string while the stream is non-empty
<Bike>
emaczen: what do you mean by "the string of *standard-output*"? would you like output to *standard-output* to be collected into a string?
<emaczen>
Bike: If I evaluate (asdf:load-system :some-system) a bunch of output is written to *standard-output* and I would like to collect that output into a string
<Bike>
use with-output-to-string?
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<mfiano>
Can FORMAT pad a string argument with an arbitrary character, like it can with a number as with (format nil "~16,'0d" 1) ?
<Bike>
the padding is 0 the character, not 0 the number.
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<Bike>
so, yes.
<mfiano>
true, but how would I apply that to "A" rather than 1 as an argument
<emaczen>
Bike: (with-output-to-string (sstrm) (setf *standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream sstrm)) ...) tells me that the string-output-stream is closed
<Josh_2>
Alrighty I did that pjb all loaded locally now, thanks
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<Harzilein>
hi
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<beach>
Hello Harzilein.
<Harzilein>
is there a modern text about the tendency for lisp systems (and systems informed by the lisp way of doing things) to make scripting harder by forcing people used to scripting languages to care about "making toplevels by saving images"?
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<beach>
It sounds like you would be very qualified to write such a text.
<Bike>
i don't know what "making toplevels" means. or if there's a particular thing about images making scripting difficult. seems obvious
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<Harzilein>
on unix, it'd help if a compiler works a bit more like gcc, and an interpreter works a bit more like perl ;)
<Bike>
if you want to use lisp to rpelace those things, maybe.
<Harzilein>
oh, an editor can look like emacs, that's okay for me (i prefer vile, but i get it)
<Harzilein>
and a lisp repl can look like a lisp repl
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<beach>
Harzilein: I suggest you write your software in Common Lisp instead of in some other language that requires Lisp for scripting.
<Harzilein>
but making a lisp compiler look like a lisp repl and READMEs stopping at "when you have described everything you want your new lisp system to do, you can save an image, or save a toplevel with your image included"... tends to turn people off
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<beach>
Es tut mir leid.
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<Harzilein>
i was just looking at poplog and after checking out great after reading its primer, it got me at reading the "ref system" helptext
<Harzilein>
sorry if i'm ranting
<pjb>
Harzilein: how would scripting be made easier?
<pjb>
Harzilein: notice that scripting in eg. bash is not easy either, when you start wanting to use big and numerous bash _libraries_!
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<pjb>
The classical unix way of doing that, is to provide an installation makefile that will copy and install all the required resources and dependencies on a given system, possibly modifying the scripts themselves to configure them according to the current system (paths, etc).
<Josh_2>
pjb: working like a charm, thanks!
<pjb>
That's when you realize that it's good to be able to use an implementation with a lot of built-in modules such as clisp.
<pjb>
Josh_2: good.
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<pjb>
eg. in clisp, no need for quicklisp cl-ppcre, you can just use the regexp module directly. Of course, on the other hand it means that you have the restrictions of libregex, since that's what that module is based on… damned.
<Harzilein>
pjb: poplog claims to have a common lisp implementation, i don't know if stuff like asdf, quicklisp etc. would work though
<pjb>
Harzilein: it would be interesting to add support for it.
<pjb>
But AFAIK, poplog wasn't on the radar of asdf and quicklisp implementers.
<Harzilein>
it got open sourced rather recently only, no?
<pjb>
That said asdf works or worked on genera, so there's a chance you can make it work on poplog CL.
<Harzilein>
it certainly wasn't on my radar
<Harzilein>
i have liked forth for a long time, so somehow pop-11 + clisp, or pop-11 + ml, it sounds really interesting
<Harzilein>
or pop-11 + prolog
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<pjb>
there's nothing like pop-11 + clisp.
<pjb>
Try pop-11 + CL.
<Harzilein>
cl i mean, sorry
<Harzilein>
so still, shebang, implicit compilation (like python) or even explicit compilation, an apache mod_whateverbytecode, a bytecode interpreter, a compiler that does not include a toplevel if it never gets invoked. that'd be things i'm looking for.
<pjb>
Harzilein: try clisp.
<pjb>
(but really all the major CL implementations support scripting as well).
<beach>
Harzilein: I think your complaint is insulting, not to me, but to the many people who work very hard for free to provide excellent-quality Common Lisp systems. They are entitled to work on what they want. If you want something different, then you can take what they did and change it to your liking, or you can pay someone to do that for you.
<beach>
Harzilein: And, what do you imagine would be the result of your complaint? That these providers of excellent free Common Lisp implementation would suddenly jump at this opportunity to make their implementations better for scripting?
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<Harzilein>
beach: i'm aware that i'm ranting. i'm aware that the focus of something like poplog is different and that people have to do something that is useful for their community (poplog might lean more toward education, unsure about research) instead of pleasing "outsiders".
<shka>
uhm
<shka>
Harzilein: ECL?
<Harzilein>
beach: as i said, i wondered if someone else has articulated the sentiment that new lisp systems seem to drift to calling things done when people can interactively evaluate stuff, perhaps with less vitriol ;)
<beach>
Harzilein: People articulate all kinds of stuff here, so yes probably that as well.
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<Harzilein>
perhaps online too?
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<Harzilein>
oh well, so i guess a good first step to changing stuff to my liking would be to add poplog cl support to cl-launch?
<Josh_2>
(vgplot:demo) is really really helpful
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<beach>
Hey all you hard-working Common Lisp enthusiasts. Could you please make it easier for me to write the main code of my software in a language other than Common Lisp by making it easier to use your Common Lisp implementation as a secondary language, for scripting the code that I wrote in that other language?
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<Josh_2>
That's no bueno beach no bueno
<jackdaniel>
beach: sure thing, check out thrift integration
<scymtym>
Harzilein: look at cl-launch. you can literally write e.g. "cl -s esrap '(esrap:parse (quote (* #\a)) "aaa")'" and have the esrap system downloaded via Quicklisp, automatically compiled and cached (like Python), and your expression evaluated (like perl)
<beach>
jackdaniel: Yes, that makes Harzilein's complaint even worse. I.e. that there are hard-working people like you who have already done it.
<jackdaniel>
I didn't read the backlog yet
<jackdaniel>
but if you say that it may insult me, I'll skip that action this time :)
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<Josh_2>
Having so much fun with gnuplot and vgplot right now :D
<Harzilein>
scymtym: just out of curiosity, how do people tend to bootstrap asdf (ignoring package managers for a moment). is there something similar to the "evil" curl | sh way?
<Josh_2>
I hope gnuplot doesn't mind a list of 10k element
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<Josh_2>
*3 hours later*
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<jackdaniel>
Harzilein: I believe that it is enough to quickly check on the internet to confirm, that asdf is usually bundled with the implementation, but it would be trivial to download it via curl and feed to said implementation (what I'm saying, is that there is no need to ask about that)
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<pjb>
Harzilein: well, most lisp code is downloaded and run without a code review first.
<pjb>
Harzilein: Xach could take over 99.999% of the lispers of the world!
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<Harzilein>
i guess i get the chance to offend two language communities today with looking entitled: the whole problem started when i researched _again_ the weird bootstrapping history of ocaml. i wish i could bootstrap ocaml from any lisp ;)
<mrottenkolber>
is this accessible from slime somehow?
<jackdaniel>
what is accessible?
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<jackdaniel>
closer-mop is a portability-layer
<mrottenkolber>
I was wondering if there is a slime command that can be used to disasseble methods
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<mrottenkolber>
There is slime-disassemble-symbol but ....
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<jackdaniel>
I'm not aware of such functionality, but (setf (fdefinition 'my-symbol) (method-function my-method)) would make it accessible with a symbol
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<jackdaniel>
(I think, never actually tried that)
<fikka>
guys is spacemacs any good? I just started tinkering with lisp,clojure,emacs and vim and I like vim bindings but don't want to ditch emacs
<jackdaniel>
I know people who praise it as a very good editor
<jackdaniel>
you'll certainly get more information on that topic if you join #emacs
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<fikka>
jackdaniel: thanks
<jackdaniel>
sure
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<dmiles>
how teribile would it be to define LABLES via defun but on the topelevel but name prefixed by where it was found in?
<mrottenkolber>
dmiles: I would rather define LABELS via the Y combinator, I think
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<dmiles>
MrBusiness: thx i am looking at that now
<dmiles>
oops mrottenkolber
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