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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<p_l>
Is there some kind of CMS written in CL? Designed to be extensible
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<no-defun-allowed>
CMS?
<beach>
minion: What does CMS stand for?
<minion>
Celloid Melted Stummy
<beach>
no-defun-allowed: Usually "Content Management System".
<p_l>
I have just lost my night over a PHP one :|
* p_l
reloads the database from backup again
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<beach>
Wow, the Wikipedia article on CMS is so general that it could work as a description of a text editor too.
<p_l>
beach: a text editor is a CMS, though that's very reductionist view
<beach>
Ah, no wonder then.
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<LdBeth>
beach: well it about multi people editing
<LdBeth>
Actually it can be very useful, but I’m little interested
<p_l>
the way my (primitive so far) blog works would be very well a representative of "headless" CMS (I use Emacs + org-mode + custom lisp code to output data that is then compiled into HTML)
<buffergn0me>
text editor with a distributed version control system is the best CMS
<LdBeth>
Version control sucks, cause the user is not expected to resolve conflicts
<aeth>
I thought that the definition of CMS was "Wordpress or Wordpress-like"?
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<aeth>
so, basically "blog with integrated editor"
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<p_l>
that's just one subset
<p_l>
wordpress is very popular as CMS
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<p_l>
on completely different scale you have BBC's or, iirc, NYT's CMSes
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<pjb>
beach: that's unfortunately the problem with most natural language definitions, to be too general. See for example, how difficult it is to characterize "river", to be able to designate the shortest river of the world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEGzvZ85dgs
<pjb>
see also: Zawinski's Law: “Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.”, and Greenspun's tenth rule: "Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Common Lisp."
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<beach>
pjb: It sometimes a problem with the definition itself, and sometimes a problem with the concept not being precise enough.
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<pjb>
beach: granted, but people (neural networks) don't seem in general have any problem classifying instances. What happens is that two different neural network may differ on extreme cases.
<beach>
pjb: And for programs that expand, I think that is a phenomenon related to the difficulty of making programs work together in primitive systems such as Unix. There would be no need to do that kind of thing in CLOSOS.
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<beach>
Which reminds me, instead of imagining a "web browser" in Common Lisp, it would probably be better to imagine separate systems for formatting HTML, for showing PDFs, for viewing MPEG movies, etc.
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<shrdlu68>
Anyone here using GNU Guix? That plus StumpWM would make a lispy environment.
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<buffergn0me>
shrdlu68: I am planning to install GuixSD real soon now
<beach>
shrdlu68: Perhaps you would be interested in using McCLIM with its listener. That would be even Lispier.
<buffergn0me>
shrdlu68: Unfortunately I do not think Guix (or Scheme in general) is very Lispy. Rewriting core Unix programs in Guix is a great thing to do (what GuixSD is all about). They are still separate programs in separate address spaces.
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<buffergn0me>
shrdlu68: What I think would go a long way to fixing that is extending the Swank protocol to operate in a client-server way properly (like the X Window System and Emacs daemon work), so that multiple Lisp/Scheme processes can open debugger prompts in the UI (Emacs, McCLIM desktop, etc.)
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<shrdlu68>
buffergn0me: One step at a time now :D
<buffergn0me>
shrdlu68: A lot of work, but then you could work with multiple Lisp processes in a very similar way to Genera.
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<makomo>
what's the best way to get multiple repls for a single lisp image within slime? i want to be able to start off a computation in one repl and still have another one around to play within.
<makomo>
currently i'm using M-x slime-connect and opening multiple connections, but this requires a bit of hacking as slime calls swank's create-server with dont-close set to nil (hardcoded within start-swank.lisp)
<makomo>
(well, it's not slime that calls it, but it loads the file into the image)
<no-defun-allowed>
SLIME has a mrepl contrib (the name of which I will doublecheck), but it's a little less fancy than the usual SLIME REPL.
<jackdaniel>
I'd call create-server on my
<makomo>
no-defun-allowed: i'll check it out
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<makomo>
jackdaniel: what do you mean? call create-server manually?
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<shka_>
hello
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<shka_>
quick question
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<jackdaniel>
makomo: you say that something in slime calls call-server with an argument set to nil
<shka_>
… ok, i just figured this, sorry for bothering you
<jackdaniel>
is something preventing you from calling (swank:create-server …) in lisp code? or did you mean something elase?
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<makomo>
jackdaniel: well, i'd like to modify the "default" swank server that slime creates, rather than create my own (an additional one)
<makomo>
but i was looking at the wrong place. start-swank.lisp isn't actually loaded from what i can see
<makomo>
right, the value isn't hardcoded after all. swank-loader.lisp is loaded into the image and swank:start-server is called
<makomo>
which gets its value from the global swank:*dont-close* variable
<makomo>
which i already knew lol, not sure why i thought start-swank.lisp was relevant at all
<Shinmera>
That was before I asked Didier for confirmation, and he preferred end of April.
<beach>
OK.
<beach>
Not a problem for me.
<beach>
One more month to write papers. :)
<Shinmera>
Heh
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<Shinmera>
University is real busy this semester, but I hope I can turn Alloy into a paper still
<Shinmera>
Anyway, what I hope more than that is that I can provide an enjoyable conference for everyone!
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<beach>
I am sure that can be possible.
<beach>
Are you planning to have catering for lunch and such?
<Shinmera>
I'm not sure about Lunch -- there's a lot of restaurants close by, but for the banquet there'll be catering.
<Shinmera>
Haven't looked into the details yet, though.
<beach>
I see.
<beach>
So the banquet will be in the same place as the conference?
<Shinmera>
Yes
<beach>
Nice!
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<Shinmera>
Yeah, we get to use the place for the evening, so it should work out fine
<beach>
Wonderful!
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<Shinmera>
Just have to go through catering options and price optimisation sometime soon ;)
<Shinmera>
For Sunday I was thinking about a tour through Zürich, though that depends a lot on the weather, which is unpredictable in April.
<beach>
I personally much prefer catering for lunch as well, but that's partly because my (admittedly small) family is not very mobile, so we take a lot of time. Plus, it is always messy to show up 50 people at a restaurant.
<Shinmera>
Yes, definitely.
<beach>
Oh, a tour sounds nice.
<beach>
With what kind of locomotion?
<Shinmera>
On foot, mostly.
<beach>
OK.
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<Josh_2>
How do I convert a string like "*abc*" into a symbol that looks like *abc*?
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
make-symbol
<Josh_2>
Comes out like -> #:|*abc*|
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
(coerce 'abc 'symbol)
<beach>
Josh_2: That's correct.
<Josh_2>
asdf_asdf_asdf: that works thanks :)
<beach>
asdf_asdf_asdf: I would be a bit more restrictive about giving advice if I were you.
<Josh_2>
hmm
<Josh_2>
that doesn't work with strings ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<beach>
Josh_2: Coercing a symbol to a symbol is easy.
<Josh_2>
Yes
<Josh_2>
I just noticed that haha
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
Josh_2, what is not works? Example, please.
<Josh_2>
perhaps it would be better for me to not try to generate defparams but to generate hash table entries and create setfable functions that return the value instead
<pjb>
Josh_2: alternatively: (setf *print-case* :downcase) (print (intern (string-upcase "*abc*"))) ; will make it look like *abc*.
<pjb>
Looks are deceiving.
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<asdf_asdf_asdf>
@Josh_2. (defun x (a b) (+ a b)) => X (funcall (sb-kernel::coerce-symbol-to-fun 'x) 10 20) => 30
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<jasom>
Josh_2: assuming the default reader, *abc* has a symbol-name of "*ABC*" so you need to upcase the string before interning it.
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<Bike>
don't use sb-kernel functions
<Josh_2>
can I create a normal function like (defun abc () 'abc) without using a macro? in this case it would be in a method
<Bike>
What do you mean, exactly?
<Bike>
"create" a normal function? "without using a macro"?
<Josh_2>
Okay, well I mean by not defining my own macro
<Josh_2>
and by create I mean I want a function that would be available at the repl
<Josh_2>
so (abc) etc..
<Bike>
You want your method to define a new, globally accessible function?
<Josh_2>
yes
<Bike>
I'd recommend not doing that, but if you really want to, just use defun.
<Bike>
(defmethod foo (...) (defun bar () 'bar) ...) is ok.
<Josh_2>
That's not going to work, I should have been more specific sorry
<Josh_2>
I need to generate the function names, not provide them
<Josh_2>
perhaps I am approaching this wrong
<Oladon_work>
Your description of what you want to do does not sound like a good idea.
<Bike>
You can do that if you really want to, but again, I don't recommend it. What are you trying to do over all?
<Oladon_work>
What are you actually trying to accomplish?
<Josh_2>
I am trying to create functions by the name of symbols used to access a hashtable, so for example (gethash :abc *hash*) would be (defun *abc* () (gethash :abc *hash*)) or something like that
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<Josh_2>
but I think it would be better to just use a macro that expands into (gethash :abc *hash*) etc that way I can easily modify the values
<Harag>
Josh_2: So you want to define functions at "run time" based on what ever rules, not at compile time like a macro would?
<Josh_2>
okay, basically I have the values in my hash table, I'm just trying to create a nice way to access the values and to alter them, which is similar to just having a global variable
<Josh_2>
I don't know the best way to do that, so I'm very open to suggestions :)
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<Bike>
(defun access (key) (gethash key *hash*)) is what i'd probably stick with
<Bike>
or something along those lines
<Bike>
throw in a setf function or make it a macro or whatever
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<Josh_2>
well then I would have to replace in my code *tcp-port* with (access :tcp-port) instead
<Josh_2>
I was thinking I could just have (*tcp-port*) instead of *tcp-port*
<Josh_2>
idk
<Bike>
well, sure. it's like a couple lines, no big deal
<Bike>
a couple characters even
<Bike>
use a symbol macro if you're really that concerned
<Bike>
i'd also recommend not naming functions with *asterisk* names
<Josh_2>
okay
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<Josh_2>
I will stick with (access ..) and if I find it annoying I will change it xD
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<beach>
asdf_asdf_asdf: Your advice often does not address the issue of the person asking the question, and there is no reason to believe that the person would want SBCL-specific solutions where portable Common Lisp solutions exist.
<pjb>
Josh_2: for methods, it would be more complicated. I don't know if it's possible without using defmethod.
<pjb>
Josh_2: but Oladon_work is right. You should write simplier code.
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<asdf_asdf_asdf>
beach; no - your advices are not so good.
<Bike>
asdf_asdf_asdf: you are actively misleading people with bad advice. stop.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
@Beach. Instead of helping, you are fooling around.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
You more "spamming" instead helping.
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<Josh_2>
pjb: just seen your messages. Alrighty, well I went with just having a method to access with a key ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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<Josh_2>
Once I have made my software and it has It's asd file and It's at a point where I want to use it in another project, where do I put it?
<Josh_2>
~/quicklisp/local-projects?
<Xach>
Josh_2: that works
<Josh_2>
I must be doing something wrong then
<Xach>
Josh_2: what suggests that to you?
<Josh_2>
I have put my project into local-projects but when I try to load it into another asdf if not finding it
<Josh_2>
I think to be fair, this is a long running problem
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<Josh_2>
because i load up projects into my image using a function like (load-asd ..) then (load-system ..)
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<Xach>
Josh_2: does (ql:where-is-system "your-project-name") work?
<Josh_2>
It just returns nil
<Josh_2>
What is the proper way to manage projects with quicklisp, should all of them be in ~/local-projects?
<Xach>
Josh_2: what is the full path to your file's .asd?
<dlowe>
I only put the asd files in local-projects, myself
<Josh_2>
o
<dlowe>
that's not to say that's the only correct thing to do
<dlowe>
it should work regardless
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<Xach>
Josh_2: and when you do (ql:where-is-system "configurator-asdf") returns nil?
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<Josh_2>
yes
<Xach>
Josh_2: can you try (ql:register-local-projects) and see if that changes the result?
<Josh_2>
Yep that worked
<Xach>
ok. phew.
<Josh_2>
Now (ql:where-is-system "cl-configurator") returns the pathname :)
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<Josh_2>
Well I'll be darned, I restarted my image and once again quicklisp can't find my local-project, so I tried (ql:register-local-projects) and it has not worked this time
<Josh_2>
dlowe: do you just symlink your asd files into local-projects?
<dlowe>
Josh_2: that's right
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<dlowe>
Josh_2: I'm not suggesting this as a fix for anything
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<Josh_2>
It's a good idea though, means you can just quickload your projects?
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<Josh_2>
Well quicklisp doesn't like me
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<Xach>
Josh_2: weird
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<jackdaniel>
it seems he did not stick around to hear the answer
<jackdaniel>
for others wondering: try (disasemble '(lambda () function-body)) to get that, documentation has been updated to account for that issue
<pjb>
Josh_2: don't use asdf, use quicklisp! (ql:quickload :your-system) !
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<ym>
When I paste text into *slime-repl sbcl* with more lines then is visible in Emacs' buffer, Emacs hangs. Could someone reproduce?
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<asdf_asdf_asdf>
ym chnage init file configuration.
<Xach>
ym: i haven't had that happen, but i also don't paste a lot usually. i write long things in files and send to the repl with C-c C-c.
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<buffergn0me>
ym: In Emacs, (setq debug-on-quit t) then when you press C-g (keyboard-quit) to interrupt the hung-up Emacs you will be dropped into the debugger with a backtrace, and you can debug form there
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<jfb4>
Xach: what's the difference between C-c C-c and C-M-x (slime-eval-defun) ? why not just use that?