jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <http://cliki.net/> <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.5.4, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<yaboi> minion: registration, please?
<minion> The URL https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/users/sign_in?secret=487355e5 will be valid until 00:15 UTC.
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<gilberth__> ralt: BTW your "\" is bogus. And a (FIND-IF (LAMBDA (C) (FIND C ".-_")) "foo-bar") is even faster.
<gilberth__> s/FIND-IF/POSITION-IF/
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<zigpaw> morning :)
<beach> Hello zigpaw.
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* thijso is an idiot
<thijso> the issue I thought was with incf yesterday, turns out it's me using (return) instead of (return-from label)
<thijso> well, that was a nice day spent down the rabbit hole for nothing.
<thijso> ... and naturally I spoke too soon
* thijso is going crazy
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<flip214> thijso: wasn't for nothing, you might have learned something
<thijso> flip214: maybe. Doesn't feel like it. Especially as I haven't found the real issue yet.
<flip214> do you have a paste?
<pjb> thijso: things like that happen.
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<thijso> pjb: yeah, I know. Still frustrating every time it happens. Especially when you end up with something working and you don't really know why...
<thijso> flip214: it's now really working. I think.
<thijso> So, why would it work if I wrap the call to the main app function in a mp:process-run-function? i.e. in a separate thread.
<pjb> Watch the cadaddr of your form.
<thijso> Although... maybe I need to clean up all my debugging code before I start rejoycing...
<thijso> see if it still works then
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<thijso> hmmm... seems like it does...
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<ralt> gilberth__: it was simplified for the sake of the example
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<no-defun-allowed> Can I access a class's class-allocated slots without creating an instance of it?
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<scymtym> (READER (c2mop:class-prototype (find-class CLASS)))
<no-defun-allowed> Great, am I being too hopeful to ask for anything without MOP?
<shka__> you kinda are
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* LdBeth peek
<Shinmera> Can try with allocate-instance and cache that instance.
<scymtym> not sure. you may also have to throw C2MOP:ENSURE-FINALIZED into the mix
<no-defun-allowed> Eh well, I'll try to think of something else then.
<no-defun-allowed> That's probably one of the stupider ways to implement what I have in mind though, in my network thingamabob I would like to define handlers that a server that is an instance of some class can handle, like (define-handler (my-server "/foo") :reader #'read-foo)
<Shinmera> I don't think class-allocated slots ever happened to be the right thing in all of my projects.
<LdBeth> you cound just intern handlers' name into a package
<Shinmera> I don't even know if they ever are at all preferable over either a special variable, a representative instance, or a metaclass.
<no-defun-allowed> Fair enough, I couldn't get any inheritance from class-allocated slots now I think about it.
<LdBeth> I'm kinda start to appreciate ECMAScript
<shka__> horrific
<no-defun-allowed> #javascript is that a way →
<no-defun-allowed> Keying a hash table with the class should be reasonable though.
<shka__> no-defun-allowed: this sounds like a a complex solution to a simple problem
<LdBeth> ECMA array can be list tuple box package object ....
* Shinmera pounds his fist on the table ME TA CLASS! ME TA CLASS!
<shka__> no-defun-allowed: what really you want to do? Launch some logic without an instance of a class?
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<no-defun-allowed> Shinmera: I swore to myself I'd try to do my networking with the MOP, then my objects with the MOP. But the chant sounds fun.
<no-defun-allowed> *networking without. You got me.
<LdBeth> without MOP is like doing web without DOM
<Shinmera> I agree with shka__, I don't really know what your problem is to present an adequate solution.
<no-defun-allowed> Sorry. I think I figured it out now.
<shka__> well, ok then
<shka__> seriously though, this sounds like it should not require metaclasses at all
<pjb> It doesn't, as long as you have an object of that class.
<no-defun-allowed> I do not, but you cannot hear me, so you would not know.
<pjb> In OO languages, you need an object to send a message to. In CLOS, you need an object to dispatch a method of a generic function to.
<pjb> There's no difference between a "class method" and an "instance method" in CLOS: all methods are methods of generic functions.
<pjb> So you can just write a generic function, with a method dispatching on the class.
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<no-defun-allowed> Maybe reciprocating the /ignore would make this less painful.
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<shka__> no-defun-allowed: why exactly you don't have instance of a class though?
<shka__> writing application logic based on the classes and not instances is really backward style of programming imho
<no-defun-allowed> Because I want to add behaviour to the instance before I have one.
<pjb> In both cases, you need an object: https://pastebin.com/UWdaS3sr
<pjb> so the class or an instance…
<shka__> no-defun-allowed: yeah, i never quite run into something exactly like that
<shka__> i recommend to rethink your approach, it sounds a little bit weird
<shka__> also, remember about method specialized to symbol instances…
<no-defun-allowed> Yeah, that could work actually.
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<beach> asdf_asdf_asdf: When you submit code for others to read, it is polite to make sure you respect conventions such as naming (lower-case with hyphen, and not CamelCase), and indentation.
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<tourjin> can gpg on wsl and gpg on cygwin share one private key?
<tourjin> or should I import and export from one to another ?
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<Xach> tourjin: that is not a good topic for #lisp
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<tourjin> i see sorry for that.
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<sjl_> Would it be conforming for an implementation to make (typep (with-open-file (f "~/.stumpwmrc" :element-type 'base-char) (read-line f)) 'simple-base-string) ; => T?
<sjl_> clhs read-line
<sjl_> read-line just says it returns a "string"
<sjl_> which is > a specialized vector that is of type string, and whose elements are of type character or a subtype of type character.
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<Bike> i don't see how that would be nonconforming
<sjl_> Oh, huh, CCL actually does that
<sjl_> interesting. I had only tried it in SBCL
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<jfe> hi all. is there a way to call linux system calls from sbcl?
<jfe> in particular, i need to open a netlink socket to communicate with the kernel.
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<asdf_asdf_asdf> @jfe; type (apropos "socket") and press enter.
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<asdf_asdf_asdf> (describe 'SB-WIN32::SHUTDOWN-SOCKET)
<Bike> does it not strike you as silly to refer to sb-win32 on a question about linux
<asdf_asdf_asdf> (describe (function SB-WIN32::SHUTDOWN-SOCKET)) ; not works, because isn't a function
<jfe> asdf_asdf_asdf: awesome, thank you
<Bike> jfe: the actual interface http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#sb_002dposix
<jfe> thanks. does sbcl provide a safe wrapper around these functions or is it possible to pass a pointer to a buffer (e.g. for a read operation)?
<asdf_asdf_asdf> Remember about types in SBCL, because typed-lambda-list is ((a int) (b int) (c c-string))...
<Bike> jfe: I think it's pretty thin. The manual says to use FFI which would suggest actual pointers
<asdf_asdf_asdf> Yes. (* int) or (sap-vector::(read-operator x)).
<Bike> jfe: https://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/ might also be helpful
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<asdf_asdf_asdf> (sb-sys::vector-sap (read-operator x))
<asdf_asdf_asdf> Above wrong, sorry.
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<jfe> wow, awesome. i may not need to rewrite the prototype in C after all :)
<Bike> this isn't something i do myself often, so i don't think i can help more specifically
<jfe> oh, one other question re. threads. are mutexes required for all shared access between threads, or can i approximate the "volatile" keyword in C/C++/Java to implement flags that my worker threads need to check?
<Bike> you should use atomics instead of volatile in C/C++, shouldn't you?
<Bike> sbcl has a cas interface you can use. sb-ext:cas and such iirc
<jfe> if there's a lighter-weight mechanism than atomics i'd prefer to use it
<pjb> There's a #sbcl channel for people who insist on not writing conforming common lisp code !!!
<asdf_asdf_asdf> @jfe; specify question on the example, please.
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<fe[nl]ix> pjb: stop that
<Bike> sbcl also has atomic-update and stuff
<jfe> Bike: yeah i started to correct myself earlier -- volatile is only relevant to threads in java
<Bike> i dunno if there's a portable wrapper over these
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<Bike> jfe: ah, i see. i don't know much java
<Bike> https://github.com/Shinmera/atomics oh right, shinmera wrote one
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<Bike> pretty much the same. cas and atomic update
<jfe> my current design has my worker threads checking a flag that would be set by another thread. protecting that flag with a mutex could be costly.
<asdf_asdf_asdf> https://cpy.pt/nrMPgxd6
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<ralt> jfe: there are cheap mutexes
<ralt> one I really like when you have many-reads-little-writes is seqlock
<ralt> the reader lock doesn't actually take any lock
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