Topic for #milkymist is now Milkymist One, Milkymist SoC & Flickernoise development channel (LLHDL/Antares are welcome too) :: Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/mmlogs :: JFDI
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<wolfspraul> wpwrak: wow
<wolfspraul> so you got usb-midi to work?
<wpwrak> yup :)
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<wolfspraul> let's get a bunch of controllers!
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wolfspraul> which ones?
<wpwrak> now can look for places to add more host ports ;-)
<wpwrak> good question :)
<wpwrak> i found one that looks quite versatile while being inexpensive. the iCON i-Creativ, MSRP USD 125. http://www.icon-global.com/ShowPro.aspx?ID=136
<wpwrak> but it has a very weird limitation on the pad resolution that noticeably restricts what you can do with it
<wpwrak> it's borderline with my Tornado MIDI RMX, particularly if you don't know any other controller, but you'd immediately notice with the pac man
<wpwrak> then i have the korg nanoKONTROL2, but that one has such a cheap feel to it that i'd be reluctant to recommend it. there's an even cheaper variant, the nanoKONTROL (without "2"), but i don't know that one
<wpwrak> iCON have a direct competitor to the nanoKONTROL, the iControls: http://www.icon-global.com/ShowPro.aspx?ID=19
<wolfspraul> ok
<wolfspraul> wait
<wolfspraul> catching up :-
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wpwrak> if the build quality is anything like the i-Creativ, that would be a better entry-level choice than the korg ones. USD 73 MSRP. even has a joystick, but i think that one pretends to be a mouse, so may not be immediately useful for patch control (of course, we can implement whatever we want :)
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<wpwrak> akai also have some devices in the low-cost segment, although a bit more expensive than Korg or iCON. e.g., this one: http://www.akaipro.com/lpd8
<wpwrak> dunno about build quality - or whether a controller with many pads would actually be very useful with the m1
<wpwrak> the we have the lv3. this is a more complex device. for faders, it competes with the nanokontrol and icontrols. quality is much better than in the nanokontrol. dunno about icontrols.
<wpwrak> my tornado remix is better suited for an x/y pad than for a joystick. i'm still trying to see how to make it work pleasantly with faders. (it takes a while to unlearn some style of controls and to learn another style. for now, i find it awkward to control that patch with just sliders, but that may change.)
<wpwrak> i still have to use the LV3 with camera input. that should be the ideal scenario for the joysticks.
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: ok I added your feedback here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_accessories#Products
<wolfspraul> just copy/paste for now, need to go over the links etc. and cleanup
<wolfspraul> then we can zoom in somewhere
<wolfspraul> I think a lot of people want to have some small portable well integrated controller to show/demo m1
<wpwrak> yes, and we should make it a clear message that M1 needs that :)
<wolfspraul> oh definitely
<wpwrak> i mailed iCON to ask whether they plan to improve the resolution on their i-Creativ. if you don't mind packing an extra pound, that one looks like a very suitable moderately low-cost choice that covers a lot of uses.
<wolfspraul> seems they try to have as many products and names start with 'i' as possible
<wolfspraul> maybe one day can sell one to the overlord...
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wpwrak> yeah. they shouldn't do that. makes them look cheap :)
<wolfspraul> do you really think we should go to 4 USB connectors?
<wpwrak> the i-Creativ is remarkably heavy and solid. you could use it as a blunt weapon :)
<wpwrak> if we can ...
<wolfspraul> which ones do you have right now?
<wpwrak> with usb, the more the merrier :)
<wolfspraul> seems you always pull out a few more names :-)
<wpwrak> (usb connectors) may be a bit tricky to find room for them, though :)
<wpwrak> i have faderfox lv3, icon i-creativ, korg kaossilator pro, and korg nanokontrol2
<wpwrak> maybe i should get an i-controls, too. that one's cheap even here :)
<wpwrak> akai also have some small and inexpensive midi controllers, but then i think we're already at the end of that product class
<wpwrak> then there are controllers that are more aimed at studios. things like the zero or this http://www.cme-pro.com/products-list/product-Bitstream3X.html (to toss you a new name :)
<wpwrak> these are generally in the USD 500+ segment. and you probably need to make some room :)
<wpwrak> yet another segment are the ones with a piano keyboard. midi keyboards often have a number of sliders, knobs, etc., too. some even have a lot. e.g., the zero it just the upper half of such a keyboard:
<wpwrak> thinking of it, the 25 SL Mk II may not be such a bad device. lots of controls, x/y pad (it seems), and also a joystick
<wpwrak> probably costs and arm and both legs, though ... let's see ...
<wpwrak> usd 719 in argentina ... quite reasonable actually
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<kristianpaul> 0_o
<aw_> (pre-rc4 sub switch sch patch): http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:M1pre-rc4-u-A022.JPG
<wpwrak> nice and clean !
<wpwrak> (the reset)
<wpwrak> the usb power switch is messy ;-)
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<wpwrak> but amazing that you could rework an existing rc3 with it. that's quite a lot of changes.
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<aw_> (7181C video decoder) replaced a new 7181C, the oscillate freg voltage(AC) on C225 is small @ 100mV, C226 is @ 64mV. A good voltage of 7181B: C225 @ 284mV, C226 @ 240mV.
<aw_> needs to check.
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<GitHub180> [milkymist] none pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/9hltUA
<GitHub180> [milkymist/master] softusb: don't forget notifying the host when there are news from MIDI - Werner Almesberger
<GitHub180> [milkymist/master] softusb: accept everything but non-MIDI and system messages - Werner Almesberger
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<lekernel_> elldekaa: soo.... under debian (haven't tried ubuntu yet) it crashes with the same exception when I try to open files. at least, java is successful with porting errors.
<lekernel_> for some reason the ubuntu installer fails to find my hard disk... grmbl
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<qi-bot> The Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-12012011-1048/
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<aw_> lekernel, will m1 still work well with i2c without changing s/w after replaced 7181C?
<lekernel> I think so
<lekernel> at least I didn't spot obvious differences in the datasheet
<lekernel> does this question mean you have problems?
<aw_> i saw those signals(outputs) of VS, FIELD and HS are shown well on 7181C which same as other 7181B .
<aw_> i compared 7181B and 7181C recommended circuit, only pin34 (FB), pin52(ALSB) not the same, also surely many pins on 7181B are NC( those NCs are now available on 7181C, but i don't think they are problems).
<aw_> so my question is will s/w need to detect an unique id in 7181C? seems it's failed while using current test program.
<wolfspraul> lekernel: do you think Adam should switch to the latest release when flashing units to be shipped out?
<wolfspraul> we have a lot of goodies in there :-)
<lekernel> phew, no
<lekernel> people who can't run the web update probably won't do anything interesting with the M1 anyway
<aw_> he~ the people like me.
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<wolfspraul> aw_: so you say you put an adv7181c on a board, but now video doesn't work?
<wolfspraul> how can we trace it down?
<aw_> i think using test program to check if I2C is pass. i got "Unexpected register value: 0x19"
<aw_> "When TIM_OE is 1, HS, VS, and FIELD are forced active all the time." and "When TIM_OE is 0 (default), HS, VS, and FIELD are threestated according to the TOD bit." so a TIM_OE is 1 for surely now. But this set by s/w or decode itself?
<lekernel> ah, moment
<aw_> another truth is the oscillate freg voltage(AC) on C225 is small @ 100mV, C226 is @ 64mV. A good voltage of 7181B: C225 @ 284mV, C226 @ 240mV.
<aw_> so maybe just oscillate voltage problem? or s/w some where? now I am confused at all. ;-)
<lekernel> I think 0x19 is probably ok, you can ignore this problem
<lekernel> does the capture work afterwards?
<aw_> really?? yes I got 0x19
<aw_> when i entered gui mode
<lekernel> it's just the chip ID
<aw_> there's no video shown
<aw_> ooah..aha..
<lekernel> and what about the test program?
<lekernel> does capture work there? what messages does it print?
<aw_> Waiting for a captured frame. f to fail test, s to skip.
<aw_> LOCKS: 2
<aw_> AD_RESULT: 0
<lekernel> does it display something?
<aw_> none shows on display
<lekernel> none? what is "none"?
<lekernel> black? blue? white? garbage?
<aw_> black
<lekernel> can you try without video signal?
<lekernel> disconnect video signal, reboot, wait a few seconds, run video in test
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<aw_> run gui or run test program?
<lekernel> test program
<lekernel> don't touch the gui yet
<aw_> okay
<aw_> same result after disconnect video signal
<aw_> i saw SDA signal there but not sure if it's okay though.
<aw_> so 0x19 now is 7181C's ID correctly?
<aw_> if yes, at least explains my soldering is now problem.
<lekernel> well, check the datasheet...
<lekernel> that's the value from register 0x11
<lekernel> and yes, 0x19 is the correct value, see p. 224
<aw_> downlaoding.... great 0x19. so at least soldering is okay...and can we say at leasi also that TIM_OE is "1" now to force active all the time(I think).
<GitHub152> [autotest-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/4sIlgQ
<GitHub152> [autotest-m1/master] videoin: also accept chip ID 0x19 (7181C) - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
<GitHub152> [autotest-m1/master] Merge branch 'master' of github.com:milkymist/autotest-m1 - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
<lekernel> well, digital power supply and I2C soldering is OK
<lekernel> maybe the 7181C needs a slightly different I2C programming... can you check using the datasheet?
<aw_> yes, yeah..saw it. wow...great now the source are also accepts (7181C) thanks.
<lekernel> that's the programming used by the test program: https://github.com/milkymist/milkymist/blob/master/software/libhal/vin.c#L128
<lekernel> write 0x00 to 0x15, 0x41 to 0x17, etc.
<aw_> aha...i see now.
<lekernel> there's a lot of useless or semi-useless writes in this, it can be simplified to
<lekernel> static const char vreg_addr[] = {
<lekernel> 0x1d, 0xc3, 0xc4
<lekernel> };
<lekernel> static const char vreg_dat[] = {
<lekernel> 0x40, 0x05, 0x80
<lekernel> };
<aw_> I'll check each address of reg. surely needs to be compared 7181C
<lekernel> probably the 3-register sequence is easier :)
<lekernel> the 7181b works with only these 3 registers
<aw_> although i have long long time ago no write c codes but see / check this ...i think i can do. but for make i need to learn again. phew....
<aw_> okay
<lekernel> it's completely trivial, all it means is that 0x40 is written to register 0x1d, 0x05 to reg 0xc3, etc.
<aw_> okay...yes
<aw_> btw, what difference between your link and /autotest-m1/..../tests_videoin.c ?
<lekernel> tests_videoin.c uses the library which contains the code I linked
<aw_> aha..okay
<aw_> alright, I'll check them tomorrow, maybe can find out or maybe not from me. well...I'll try. ;-)
<aw_> thanks for helping me clarify the 0x19 result.
<aw_> n8
<lekernel> gn8
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<lekernel> I'm setting up http://milkymist.org/blog/ - who wants an account?
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<qi-bot> The Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-12012011-1513/
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<lekernel> make that http://milkymist.org/wp/
<kristianpaul> oh xilinx donate milkymsit for show its logo here?
<kristianpaul> very nice banner
<wpwrak> nice design ! navigation may be a it confusing without the customary sidebar, but let's see
<kristianpaul> yeah design very fresh
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<sh4rm4> (http://milkymist.org/wp/) when i hover the outermost right item on the page the text is cut
<sh4rm4> that's the one right of the flickernoise screenshot
<sh4rm4> browser is chrome
<lekernel> can you send a screenshot?
<lekernel> it works for me, of course - also with chrome ...
<lekernel> ah, on the last page
<lekernel> hmm
<lekernel> seems to be a theme bug when there are fewer than 4 pictures :(
<lekernel> probably not worth spending my time fixing, hopefully we're going to have a lot of posts and no one will scroll this far
<lekernel> yes, indeed... thanks for the screenshot
<sh4rm4> also on tutorials the black bar with the name of the author is somewhat hard to spot on a blackish bg image
<sh4rm4> maybe a slight gradient or a 1pixel white border could make it more distinct
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<roh> hm.. maybe ease up on the js animations and show one of the pics expanded by default
<roh> its very slow on my broser and by default it doesnt show anything nice
<lekernel> this is a sign of obsolete hardware
<roh> no. bad programming.
<lekernel> hehehe
<roh> i wouldnt call c2d cpus obsolete btw.
<lekernel> web designers are bad programmers. nothing new under the sun :)
<roh> lekernel: well. on js there are 2 kinds.. the one thats useful and serves a purpose/makes things nicer, and the other one which makes stuff slow for no gain whatsoever.
<roh> what i means is that its not the functionality which makes it slow, its how its done. but i am not that good in js to know why some constructs are slow. just noticed the sluggishness and the spiking cpuload
<kristianpaul> sigh, and i bought finally a dual core netbook because that js slowdonws :-| (also to run ise ;-))
<wpwrak> lekernel: seems that your blog already inspired some technological progress :)
<lekernel> ?
<wpwrak> kristianpaul buying a more powerful netbook ;-)
<wpwrak> btw, the plan for cache-with-MMU was something along L1: virtual with physical tags (also keys ?), and L2: physical ?
<wpwrak> i.e., L1 latency would be max(latency(cache), latency(MMU)) on a cache hit
<kristianpaul> wpwrak: yeah :)
<wpwrak> as opposed to just latency(cache) on a hit for virtual without physical tags (but frequent flushing)
<lekernel> yes
<wpwrak> mhm. efficient but also demanding.
<lekernel> demanding? why?
<wpwrak> you still need a fast mmu. without phys tags, the cache acts as your tlb. but of course, software has to work harder (aliasing, flushing)
<lekernel> of course I need a fast MMU :) lower FPS counts a "regression" :)
<wpwrak> ah, but without physical tags, you wouldn't care as long as your working set stays in the cache :)
<roh> sometimes i wish we wouldnt need caches as workarounds to the 'ram too slow' issue.
<lekernel> virtual index/physical tag isn't much harder to implement ...
<roh> would make quite some things much easier. imagine all your ram at full busclock
<wpwrak> roh: well, the M1's lm32 core is kinda slowish ... maybe with a bit of tweaking, your dream can come true ;-)
<roh> wpwrak: hrhrhr
<lars_> sometimes i wish we wouldn't need ram as workarounds to the 'disk to slow' issue
<lars_> ;)
<roh> lars_: they are workin on that one.
<roh> only problem: sw must be much higher quality then. the 'switch it of an on again' will not work with persistant memory.
<lars_> and probably the only reason why i need hard disks is because of the slow internet issue
<wpwrak> roh: naw, you'd just wipe out the transient area before using it, just like today
<wpwrak> lars_: and of course, the internet is only so slow because people don't type in things faster :)
<lars_> wpwrak: given enough monkeys with trigger buttons generating ones and zeros in your basement the internet becomes obsolete?
<wpwrak> we should invest in banana plantation stock
<wpwrak> and monkey feces management services. hmm .. that still means we have to watch that facebook IPO
<lars_> ;)
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<wpwrak> lekernel: by the way, in my latest build, the borders in the gradients have disappeared. so it seems to come and go somewhat arbitrarily :-(
<lekernel> yes, it does
<wpwrak> at least there's hope that it only changes from build to build, not from run to run
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<wolfspraul> hey nice /wp/ page - great!
<lekernel> wolfspraul: want an account so you can post your quarterly news? :-)
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<wpwrak> i think the quarterly news (soon: annual address) need a non-wolfgang solution. the mismatch between effort needed and available motivation has been steadily increasing, until it seems to have reached the breaking point
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: see it more positively. it's slow for 2 reasons:
<wolfspraul> #1 - I am constantly hoping real-soon-now I get some great videos like the masala video or cheap dinosaur high-res
<wolfspraul> #2 - I keep thinking about the marketing message, which is real work and needs time and talk/meetings with people to gather feedback and so on
<wpwrak> hehe ;-)
<wolfspraul> and unless there are emergencies, I am back at the page in a bit
<wolfspraul> 6 AM here, no complaints I don't start early! :-)
<wpwrak> that's your guilty consciousness not letting you sleep before the news are out ;-)
<wpwrak> hmm, "masala" must mean something naughty in india :) first google hit for "masala video": "[...] the hottest real hot video of a south indian women doing with a worker [...]"
<wpwrak> and the following hits promise to be in the same vein
<wpwrak> of course, we've been promised "3 hot young girls" who were supposedly "literally the center [...] of the party" (the one in warsaw), so that video ought to be interesting :)
<wpwrak> nice. my usb-midi dongle works, too. we can drop MIDI IN/OUT now. (just kidding :)
<wpwrak> btw, did we ever get a reaction on the NOR flawed unlocking protocol used by urjtag ?
<wpwrak> s/NOR flawed/flawed NOR/
<wpwrak> and why isn't qi-bot editing ? :-)
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