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<wpwrak>
ceene, ahycka: i think the basic questions are a) whether you've had time to have a good look at the current v2 schematics yet, and, based on that, b) have a rough idea of how much work the layout would be (in terms of time and money)
<DocScrutinizer05>
and 0) if you got time and intention to do the job
<wpwrak>
ceene, ahycka: this should be the PDF that's easiest to navigate: https://neo900.org/stuff/werner/tmp/Neo900-toc.pdf (has a PDF TOC). but maybe joerg already sent you the latest Eagle design files.
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: we have to be optimistic ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
apropos TOC, all schematics are supposed to have one now, no?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I wrote that nifty Eagle ULP for a purpose ;-)
<wpwrak>
i just run "print 20 -1 file ./$tmp landscape sheets all; quit;", then i work on the PDF
<wpwrak>
well, and i also parse the .sch
<DocScrutinizer05>
the problem with this approach is: it's not backward compatible to Eagle
<DocScrutinizer05>
so printing sheets from Eagle wouldn't have a TOC
<wpwrak>
but i think your ULP does something different: it generates a page with sheet title and page numbers, no ? but not a PDF toc (the thing you can use to navigate)
<wpwrak>
sure, schtoc.pl is a post-processor
<DocScrutinizer05>
aah, right
<DocScrutinizer05>
eagle got NFC about pdf index
<DocScrutinizer05>
I thought your schtoc.pl creates the TOC sheet
<wpwrak>
yeah. those TOC are also fairly tricky. you have to create a tree of toc entry objects. and if you want to put it into an existing pdf, yuo need to patch some pointers
<wpwrak>
was an interesting learning experience, though :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
so bot the ULP and yours are complementary
<DocScrutinizer05>
both
<ceene>
wpwrak, DocScrutinizer05: we haven't looked at it all thoroughly, so we can't answer (b) yet
<ceene>
ahycka is willing to do it, but doesn't want to be paid nor can promise any time, as that'll be done on her free time
<ceene>
as payment she accepts a prototype, or something like that, so she at least has one copy of what she's built
<ceene>
we have access to quite a decent lab, so we'd be able to test lots of things
<DocScrutinizer05>
that sounds good, we just need some fairly binding timelines we try to keep
<ceene>
we'll print the schematics tomorrow and make a valoration of how much time it can take
<ceene>
valoration is an english word?
<ceene>
evaluation
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe, spanish
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: have you sent them the design files yet ? especially footprints (to the extent that they're present) may be a significant time factor
<DocScrutinizer05>
I wasn't even sure
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<ceene>
the files we got are latest versions?
<DocScrutinizer05>
the footprints are embedded as far as we got them at all from Nikolaus
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<ceene>
if she does it in altium she'll be faster, that's for sure
<DocScrutinizer05>
we need to discuss this
<ceene>
i'm not good routing, but i can for sure draw missing footprints
<DocScrutinizer05>
for the prototype we won't have a need to ever access the layout of at least UPPER in Eagle again
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's a one-off
<ceene>
so, for this prototype
<DocScrutinizer05>
for the final layout the situation is a tad different
<wpwrak>
but any footprint should be reusable from v2 to v3 / final
<DocScrutinizer05>
a) we need sophisticated FPBGA routing there, and b) we need a sustainable toolchain to handle it
<ceene>
thing is we've only ever used altium, i used something from national instruments years ago, don't remember its name
<ceene>
but kicad and eagle are new for us
<DocScrutinizer05>
Eagle is crap for the complexity of layout we need for final, anyway
<ceene>
so maybe we should just discard it forever
<DocScrutinizer05>
Nikoluas dealt with this by using his own proprietary rouer
<wpwrak>
and i'm (still :-( ) not sure if kicad could do it. i have done 2 layer with the manual router, but still have to try the push router for a "real" design
<ceene>
we've exported one of our own designs in altium to kicad and it looked very good
<DocScrutinizer05>
what woukd be *really* great was a viable export feature from Altium into a format that actually works for Eagle and maybe even kicad
<ceene>
so at least, if we route on altium i think it's safe to say kicad compatibility will be near 100%
<wpwrak>
ceene: could you follow traces across layers ? i.e., was the converted version able to have proper netlists in the layout editor ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
that sounds great
<ceene>
altium2kicad works great i think
<ceene>
wpwrak: i think so, yeah, it highlited connected pads, traces and all that
<DocScrutinizer05>
((Eagle)) can't even do in-pad vias >:-((
<wpwrak>
ceene: okay, that sounds very encouraging
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: time to shoot the lame bird :)
<ceene>
we can't release this pcb, as its of our company, but we can try some example pcb from altium and export it to kicad, so yu can evaluate if it would fit
<DocScrutinizer05>
only manually, with lots of asskicking
<ceene>
well, gonna have dinner now, tomorrow we'll look at the schematics
<ceene>
both boards need to be done for this prototype?
<DocScrutinizer05>
((kicad)) could the two (three?) of you take care of that?
<ceene>
we've never used kicad, but it seems usable
<DocScrutinizer05>
ceene: have a carachilo on me ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, both boards UPPER and LOWER needed for proto_v2
<ceene>
that translates basically on more time till we learn how to use kicad
<wpwrak>
that must be deep spanish slang :)
<ceene>
well, that's a carajillo :)
<ceene>
ch in german is similar to the j
<DocScrutinizer05>
salut, pesetas, y muceres is spanish 'slang'
<DocScrutinizer05>
mucheres*
<DocScrutinizer05>
mijeres?
<ceene>
mujeres
<DocScrutinizer05>
dang, my typing sucks
<ceene>
carajillo is coffee with cognac/brandy
<ceene>
also, salud :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
delicious
<ceene>
salud, mujeres y amor
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-D
<ceene>
it's like the healthy version of sex, drugs and rock&roll
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<ceene>
well, cya tomorrow, we'll tell you something tomorrow
<DocScrutinizer05>
don't forget the chip of orange peel in the carajillo