00:03 <DocScrutinizer51> sorry my PC suffered lethal defect

19:38 <N64N64> question, why the N900, instead of, say, the iphone?

19:42 <atk> I think it would be very difficult to gut an iphone and fit a newer free-er phone inside

19:43 <bencoh> good luck with that

19:47 <ravelo> N900 is already very well documented

19:47 <ravelo> contrary to iPhone which is closed

19:57 <sn0wmonster> N64N64, that is not a question, that is the framing of a stand-up comedic joke

19:57 <sn0wmonster> :)

19:59 <sn0wmonster> but to answer your question, the Neo900 provides an environment of transparent, auditable control and security, whereas the iPhone merely promises it without the ability to confirm.

20:01 <sn0wmonster> the iPhone is an important scientific achievement though, as it serves as a more tangible representation of the paradox of Shrodinger's Cat.

20:02 <sn0wmonster> in this case, the iPhone is both secure and insecure, free and unfree, because it doesn't allow you to know the answer.

20:03 <sn0wmonster> Apple goes to great lengths to keep that mystery intact too, because security theater is a big business and entertainment is regularly favored over education.

20:06 <sn0wmonster> they've made some pretty cool advances with their hardware security mind you, but in my opinion, the inability to verify and test any of that security in a free environment makes it about as useless as a gun in a locked cabinet.

20:08 <sn0wmonster> there is no catch-all solution though. you need to decide for yourself what's right by defining your #OPSEC model and what works for you.

20:08 <sn0wmonster> i may use an iphone while working for a company, but just leave it at the office as i don't trust it not to leak the data it collects while following me around.

21:41 <N64N64> oh, yeah, i mean, i understand the moral/privacy implications

21:42 <N64N64> i meant, why gut an N900 instead of gutting a iphone

21:42 <N64N64> but im watching the video now and it seems like there simply isn't enough room lol

21:42 <N64N64> plus the lack of docs

21:45 <sn0wmonster> well, the N900 isn't just being gutted, it's being incorporated/integrated.

21:45 <sn0wmonster> you simply can't do that with closed hardware like the iPhone, and the benefits would be negligible as the isolation model the Neo900 is using wouldn't work i gather

22:07 <N64N64> what about reverse engineering?

22:09 <sn0wmonster> easier said than done, unreliable, easily broken with a single change

22:10 <sn0wmonster> hard to reverse engineer systems designed to be tamper proof anyway

23:47 <Joerg-Neo900> Esa bailed out

23:47 <Joerg-Neo900> :-(

23:47 <galiven_> :'(

23:48 <galiven_> Couldn't get eeshow compiled / working?

23:48 <Wizzup> is that the person doing layout?

23:52 <sn0wmonster> Joerg-Neo900: what's the reasoning they gave?

23:56 <galiven_> Last I heard Esa asked for more information about footprints via a MS Office Spreadsheet. It sounded like wpwrak and Joerg-Neo900 had at least some idea to solve that though. . .