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<gr8> Hi, just heard about the neo900. What is the current progress? The last post on https://neo900.org/#news is from January 2018
<gr8> pardon, March
<gr8> also I wonder what's your opinion about the Librem 5?
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<Kero> gr8: Unfortunately, the project is in hibernation.
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<gr8> Kero, hmm, ok. Why is that? I thought this is a crowdfunded project? How much money has been raised and what happened with it?
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<Joerg-Neo900> in short, the crowdfunding never reached the goal. We got only half of the number of preorders needed to reach break-even for economical feasibility. So, doing R&D while waiting for more preorders to come in, we finally reached a dead end. Meanwhile, availability of key parts dwindled and now it's basically no further feasible to follow the original concept
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<gr8> sorry to hear that Joerg-Neo900. Thanks for explaining
<Joerg-Neo900> yw, and sorry
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<gr8> Joerg-Neo900, I wonder what's your take on the Librem 5? Wouldn't that kinda match the vision that you originally had, being pro-privacy and open source?
<Joerg-Neo900> the "open-source" on hw-level is yet to be seen. Purism's other devices have no public hw documentation. The software also doesn't really look to me like 100% open, rather it seems similar to what e.g. Nokia did with N900, shipping *one* firmware that's tailored to fit the hardware but doesn't really encourage independent development of system core parts
<Joerg-Neo900> the "privacy" features (hw switch) are very much snake oil since they don't allow an actually meaningful usage pattern
<Joerg-Neo900> it's the layman's naive approach to the "my phone spies on me" problem
<Joerg-Neo900> I think e.g. the https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator/ is superior in many aspects. In others though it has its own insurmountable deficits
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<gr8> ah I see your point. It's not quite "hackable" so to say?
<gr8> (the Librem)
<gr8> yeah clamshell design is pretty dumb for a phone, I wouldn't get such a device as the cosmo
<gr8> open source hardware projects are very interesting IMO but they often lack funding, way too often.
<gr8> and the technology is progressing very quickly so if you're making an independent piece of hardware it will be totally outdated when being released after a few years of development
<gr8> I guess a solution might be a mix & match approach were you can plug in new hardware (e.g. a new processor) into an existing modular platform
<gr8> then parts can be replaced with "open source" parts one by one
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<gr8> like GNU :)
<gr8> GNU phone
<Joerg-Neo900> Bloks, err Project Ara. A few of us knew from very beginning that it wouldn't ever fly. There are very elementary limitations why it couldn't
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<Joerg-Neo900> You're right about what you said regarding open source hardware projects. Lack of funding, no availability of competitive new components so you're actually even _starting_ development with obsolete components. Alas there's no solution to that other than finding venture capital (or other funds) which is what all successful phone projects did
<Joerg-Neo900> even though they do kickstarter or similar, they already got the funds to present prototypes
<Joerg-Neo900> or they simply rebrand an existing device
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<Joerg-Neo900> which is what e.g. Purism did with their stuff so far, otherwise why would they need to add their "magic" hw switch like a modding project
<Joerg-Neo900> also the reason they can't provide schematics etc, they don't hold the copyright aiui
<Joerg-Neo900> it's very simple to walk Shenzen 2 weeks and find a laptop manuf who offers a device for rebranding that matches the requirements, sign a contract with them and then apply a silly simple hw switch mod and sell the thing as own equipment with your own company's label on it
<Joerg-Neo900> btw Jolla did a quitre similar approach
<dos1> Purism's phone isn't a rebranded design, they develop it in house
<dos1> they released devkit's design already: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/dvk-mx8m-bsb
<Joerg-Neo900> then why do the need to unsolder resistors and solder a wire to the resistor pads for their hw switch?
<Joerg-Neo900> yeah, librem5. That's a different story
<Joerg-Neo900> sorry, missed the "phone" part in your post :-)
<dos1> (devkit is based on EmCraft's module in similar way Neo900 wanted to use BeagleBoard)
<Joerg-Neo900> yep
<gr8> ok thanks for the insights guys, I'm going to bed, take care! :)
<Joerg-Neo900> one nice aspect is the i.MX8 is relatively up-to-date SoC
<Joerg-Neo900> the cosmo communicator has a very nice software ecosystem
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<Joerg-Neo900> to the point where their wiki explains how to dual-boot
* Joerg-Neo900 would almist feel tempted to call it "N900 reloaded - this time done right"
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<xmn> surprise you like the cosmo over the Lmr5. Since the cosmo has all the android blobs in it and never was branded as privacy aware. I get why a lot of ppl don't like purism. But at this point they are the only med size company with money trying.
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<dos11> ugh, there was a netsplit and I seem to be routed to /dev/null since
<dos11> [23:30] <dos1> Purism's phone isn't a rebranded design, they develop it in house
<dos11> [23:31] <dos1> they released devkit's design already: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/dvk-mx8m-bsb
<dos11> [23:32] <dos1> (devkit is based on EmCraft's module in similar way Neo900 wanted to use BeagleBoard)
<dos11> [23:33] <dos1> I'm not a big fan of some parts of their marketing, but when it comes to what they actually do I don't have much to pick on
<dos11> [23:34] <dos1> (that's about the phone; I don't know much about their other hardware)
<dos11> [23:38] <dos1> I believe Purism does it right (well, lack of hw keyboard aside ;))
<dos11> [23:43] <dos11> is Cosmo's Mediatek modem supported on GNU/Linux?
<dos11> [23:44] <dos11> I heard that it isn't very Linux friendly, but it's just a rumor - haven't fact checked yet ;)
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<dos1> ugh, nestplit...
<dos1> netsplit*
<dos1> ping
<Joerg-Neo900> pong
<Joerg-Neo900> last seen: [3 May 2019 23:32:33] <dos1> (devkit is based
<Joerg-Neo900> then [4 May 2019 00:03:17] <dos11> ugh,
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<dos1> back to normal?
<dos1> yup! ok, everything important went through :)
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<Joerg-Neo900> compliant little logger facility
<dos1> those last three "ugh, nestplit / ping" messages were older than the rest, just arrived with a huge lag :P
<Joerg-Neo900> hehe
<Joerg-Neo900> wait! 40 min lag?
<Joerg-Neo900> meh nm
<dos1> 8 minutes, earlier were dropped
<Joerg-Neo900> that's damn huge lag
<Joerg-Neo900> I had inbound lag sending me a 6 min batch at once, some weeks ago
<Joerg-Neo900> /fnstatus
<Joerg-Neo900> gnnn
<Joerg-Neo900> dos1: PM
<Joerg-Neo900> dos1: you still around?
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<xmn> heh, a little web vomit dos1. Yeah I wish hope that purism does a keyboard eventually.
<Joerg-Neo900> the cosmo claims to have best palm size full qwerty ever
<Joerg-Neo900> >>cosmo has all the android blobs in it<< not sure. It definitely has modem integration, that's true. (I looked at "partitioning" on their wiki and almost choked)
<Joerg-Neo900> but then, it allows debian etc pp, even dualboot
<xmn> I did really like the Psion when they were around.
<Joerg-Neo900> it doesn't advertice privacy-aware but then the Purism does and doesn't deliver much
<Joerg-Neo900> on hw level the cosmo lacks modem separation. I personally don't miss that nonsensical hw-switch
<xmn> I thought that it was like most android device that you can load up alt OS on (sailfish, etc) in that you need the android blobs to access gpu and some hardware? no?
<Joerg-Neo900> check cosmo wiki. I think they are quite open
<xmn> cool, will do.
<xmn> Though I think there are more than a few devices that fit the bill of open these days which is great. Next step is for me a device that never needs android :D
<Joerg-Neo900> anyway, runs sailfish, android (also rooted, they explain how), kali, debian...
<Joerg-Neo900> ok, this is all about gemini
<Joerg-Neo900> most
<xmn> would assume they are similar
<Joerg-Neo900> http://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Gemini_Firmware#NEW_Gemini_Multi-Boot_Firmware_.28Debian_Linux.2C_Sailfish_OS_3_Beta_Community_Edition.2C_Kali_Linux.2C_Standard_and_Rooted_Android.2C_TWRP.29
<xmn> hmm, interesting
<Joerg-Neo900> yeah, indeed. That's the "open spirit" I want to see and missing with Purism
<xmn> I wonder if you even need the android partition after you load up your other OS's
<xmn> Yeah, I will agree with you there
<Joerg-Neo900> that's one of the reasons I might prefer communicator over librem5
<Joerg-Neo900> not sure yet if I actually do
<xmn> purism has it's own mission which is not always aligned with open
<Joerg-Neo900> exactly
<Joerg-Neo900> sorry folks, I will try now to leave my flat to get away from PC and vicious circle - first time since... a week?
<xmn> but come on you got to be excited for the current state of alternate hardware and sw for phone. After the fall of firefox, ubuntu, webos I was thinking it was a done deal .. at least for awhile.
<Joerg-Neo900> sure
<xmn> have a good time away! Joerg-Neo900.
<xmn> Important to get away
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